I just wanted to make sure...i read the engine options for 3rd gens and it appears that all convertables had a V8. yet none of them were equipped with a 350...if this is true than i can safely assume that they were all 305s...correct?

 

Bruce Hawkins has an '89 GTA convert. with a factory 350. Check Hawks3rdgenparts.com for a picture of it under cars for sale. Chris

 

interesting....perhaps it is just camaros that did not offer 350s with the convertable

 

Actually is has to do with how the car was ordered as a vert. A car that is considered to be a factory convertible (the sixth digit in the vin is a 3) can only be a 305. A car that was not ordered in this way, but was also converted by ASC can possibly have a 350, but the vin will show a 2 in the same place, indicating a coupe. In both cases the cars would have gone from the factory to ASC to be converted. The difference is how the order was placed, or something to that effect. Someone else may be able to explain it better.

 

Thats about it.

I've heard a rumor or two of a Camaro ASC convertible with a 350, but never a legit (even half legit if you want to look at it that way) one that I have seen. Might be hard to find. Firebirds though... there are a fair number of them out there, I have one in my garage.

 

FACTORY convertables with a 350 DO NOT EXIST from 1987-1992. What that means is there is no proof that you could order a convertable from a dealer as a FACTORY option and have it delivered to a dealer. You would not have the correct VIN, nor the RPO code.

HOWEVER, Dealers could order a 350 car, have it shipped to ASC for a convertable conversion. Although the cars would be identical insofar as equipment and appearance, the VIN nor the RPO sheet would not specify the conversion.

That is my understanding.

John

 

Just so its clear, all the 'factory' convertibles were shipped to ASC for conversion. You could also go to a dealer and order a convertible on a 350 car and have it shipped to the dealer after it was converted by ASC, although as stated the VIN wouldnt show it as a convertible so technically it wasnt a 'factory' option.

The only real difference is the 'incorrect' VIN. The parts and the people that installed them are the same.

 

Also there is no RPO for the convertible, only the VIN designation.

Edit: Depending on the year it seems I am wrong here. Willie posted the code Z08 in another thread, although my vert doesn't have this code.

 

As a former employee of ASC in Livonia, MI.....I built the cars from 87-89, worked with GM's assembly line in Lansing, and yes there were many 350 equipped firebirds (formula, trans am, GTA) and some camaros converted but all had T-Tops and the 2 in the VIN. I even saved some of the factory build sheets to prove that since most were thown away when the car was cleaned before shipping back to the dealer.
One was even shipped to JAPAN. I wrote it on the build sheet so I would not forget.
Also in 87 most early built cars that were shipped to the dealers had to be updated with parts because of certain issues. I know this because I traveled to various dealers to do the changes and still have the original sheets of all the changes that needed to be done.
I hope this helps and is my 2 cents.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thebman007
[B]As a former employee of ASC in Livonia,


dude i need to ask u something,i saw a convertible iroc-z28
with the following charterstics

-exterior paint was 2 tone (red and silver like z28)
but inside it has Iroc-z28 on the dash,

- 85MPH and 5500 redline rpm
-has automatic with round ****
-has a third break light (the big one)
-and has Tuned port injection badges outside,

i dont know the vin or rpo

im confused about the car i dont think 1986 because of 5500 rpm
so either 1985(but it has thirbreak light) or
1987 (but the gear has a round ****)

do u have information about this car ?
or do u know which year from the description ?

and did asc make custom job verts in 1985?

 

I am not aware of 86 and 85 cars. None that I have heard of however someone could mix and match parts.
I can only speak on what I saw from 87 on. Sorry.

 

thebman007,

You might be just the person to answer this question. Can you tell us the difference in the way the cars were ordered that resulted in a VIN "2" car vs. a "3" car? I know the "3" cars are condsidered factory original, and are branded as verts on the title, and "2" cars are not. I've always wondered how the ordering process varied.

 

cdartz,
All cars delivered to ASC in Livonia came from a dealer and had 2 in the VIN. I have checked all the factory build sheets that I still have in the basement that were turned into convertibles and all have a dealer name and a 2. All cars coming to Livonia, Mi had to have T-Tops in order to be converted because the windshield header where the visors are at is stronger than a non t-top car. You would be amazed at how many local dealers drove cars to us without t-tops and we turned them away. Also to further prove we had dealer cars we kept all the parts we took off in a storage trailer thinking we could resale them to body shops, junk yards, employees........ That was not the case and eventually all parts were scrapped. We had T-tops and there storage bags, sub woofer speakers from trans ams, bose rear speakers w/lockable cover, hatches, shade panels, front seat belts, upper consoles from GTA's, etc....
All scrapped.
However we did use most of the interior as possible and even cut the pastic interior to fit in the trunk area, the foot wells, sill plate, hockey stick in back seat,.....that's why some plastic parts are not cut straight, it was all custom to each vehicle and why some parts have a black trim around the cut parts. We even signed some of the backs of the rear seat cushions, behind the rear speaker panels and put notes under the carpeting saying "if you found this note............." I bet you didn't know the 3rd brake lite is a ford part with the markings sanded off and then buffed with plastic polish with a high speed wheel. Enough said about 2 cars!!

3 CARS, GM was monitoring ASC's conversions and reactions to the public about the convertibles and saw it was successful, so they wanted in on the business. I spent 3 months at the GM tech center working on updates and changes and then went to Lansing Mi were they set up a assembly line to build them. I don't know if they moved the line to the assembly plant or left it in Lansing mi. But I do know the cars destined to be a convertible by GM and did not get the parts we took off and kept.
It all had to do with once installed its a used part, thats why some others on the board here have seen cars with missing hatches t-tops on a car carrier.
ASC converted cars at the same time GM built them and that is the difference in the VIN number 2vs3.

Early camaros by ASC have a door spear above the door handles, the center pin that goes into the tonneu cover was referred to as a "John Deere Pin" early design, then changed to a rod system. Alot of the parts were custom fit to each car and that is why they look the same, up close there's little sutle differences.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm a bit confused though. Are you saying the 2 cars and 3 cars were not converted in the same place? Also about all cars being t-tops originally. My 90 vert does not have CC1 (the RPO for t-tops) on the SPID label. It's a VIN 3 car. Any thoughts there?

 

You are correct. 2 and 3 cars were NOT converted in the same place. ASC had only 2 cars meaning T-tops only for conversion.
All cars I meant to say were T-top cars for ASC only.

VIN 3 cars do not have CC1 option code, you are also correct and these were built by GM and didn't need T-tops.

ASC converted cars into convertibles
GM built cars into convertibles
Sorry for the mix-up.

 

I think what he's asking relates to the "3" cars being factory cars. Were these cars also TTop cars from the factory and sent to ASC in Livonia to be turned into a convertible. If so, would they have the CC1 code or was it just standard that any VIN 3 car had to have a ttop shell so ASC could convert it, but no CC1.

Were the factory converted cars done at an ASC location other than Livonia? You are quoted as saying that "GM built cars into convertibles". We recognize those as VIN 3. Many here believe that a car sent by a dealer to ASC for the conversion is the same as a car that came from GM. The case they are arguing is a "factory" convertible with a 350 per se. We argue that these are not factory, even though the same company that did the GM built convertibles, built these cars.

Can you break it down into more detail for the non believers that a converted car is not the same as a built car and what the requirements were. Thanks

 

Well they werent built at the GM Van Nuys plant, I can tell you that much.

I find it a little strange, I have a few pictures of cars being converted at ASC's facility here in Cali that they were converting the Camaro (all of them that were done here) that had a Firebird (obviously pre-91, someone said the photo was from 1987) that was being converted. That would be VIN 2 and 3 cars in the same building. However nobody has ever said GM was consistent or that they did things the same from one place or one moment to the next.

The dealer listed on my order form is Pioneer Pontiac in Michigan, however it never saw that dealership.

 

My 1988 IROC is a factory VIN 3 convertable. (VIN 1G1FP31F5JL145876). It was built in the Van Nuys CA plant and converted by ASC in the City Of Industry, CA. According to the ASC sticker on the driver's side door the conversion was done in February of 1988.

Below is a picture of the car's Service Parts Identification sticker. It doesn't list RPO CC1. However, here is a link to the car's build sheet:

Build Sheet

The build sheet does show that the car was originally built with the hatch roof RPO CC1.

Could it be that the Service Parts Identification sticker reflects the car as it would be when sold while the build sheet differs because it shows how it was actually assembled?

Chuck

 

Sorry, forgot to attach the Service Parts Identification sticker image in the above message.

Chuck

 

u really have nice options G80 G92 KC4

but i thought the KC4 Engine Oil cooler only came
with the L98 350 engine ??

 

You know that could be it. I haven't torn my car apart yet to look for a build sheet. I guess I'm going to have to do so and see what mine says.

 

I found my build sheet the other day, it shows the cc1 roof option and shows CON under conduit, CONV under emblems and TRANS AM CONVERT under special options. It was found under the passenger door panel.

 

Very interesting. Maybe someday all the stories will coincide into one complete story that makes sense.

 

What gets me is the top of the window sticker clearly states "1988 Camaro IROC-Z Convertable" but Convertable is listed in "options," not as standard equipment on for a convertable... Seems redundant.

John

 

I own two Trans Am Convertibles and they both have ASC stickers on the drivers door. Neither one has CC1 on the SPID label. They do both have "3" in the VIN as well as the RPO for Tan convertible top. So its clear GM "prepped" the car for conversion, but ASC did all the handy work.

 

Hmm, mine has the 3 in the vin, the asc sticker on the door, and cc1 on the build sheet.

 

The Build Sheets appear to have the CC1 option, as that probably designated the different roof necessary for the conversion. As Hard tops were not converted.

John

 

the early cars got the ford brake light... i know because SOMEONE there forgot to sand/polish off the ford emblem. lol
later cars (says DOT 87, so im going to assume model year 88 and onward) got their own specific brake light.




pretty cool to have someone here that worked at ASC.

 

Most certainly!