What does everybody think on keeping our cars all original? I took my sport coupe and put all Z-28 running gear, wheels, interior, nose, back bumper,etc. on it. Does anyone think that this is considered modifiying this car. It is all original camaro parts, they just didn't come with this car from the factory. I am not trying to pass this car off as a Z-28. I did not put any emblems on car, just wanted look and performance of z-28 from my sport coupe.

You're car would definately be considered modified. However, the only cars that would really be worth keeping original would be the higher end cars. Look at the first generation Camaros. Original Z28's are worth a lot of money. Most likely they will be worth more than a modified Z28. On the other hand a modified plain Camaro will most likely be worth more than an original one. Face it, a base 2.8 V6 Camaro or Firebird isn't going to be worth much in 10-15 years. However, a modified car with a V8 should hold its value much better.

Think to yourself, how long are you going to own this car? If its 15+ years, leave it all original. Otherwise have fun with your ride, do what you want to do.

I think they are mods if they are different than the originals in terms of style. If they look different, its a mod. Not a bad thing at all.

I intially though like you did, then I realized, I'm not going to have this car forever, so who cares what I do with it.

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1989 Camaro Convertible RS
dark silver w/black top
305tbi, auto, 2.73 posi
SLP exhaust, 16x8 black GTA rims as soon as I get them
Check out Phil's Rice Boy Page

I've faced this question many times. I've been around long enough to have bought straight '55-'56-'57 Chevys for as little as $50, '67-'68-'69 Camaros, Chevelles, etc, etc, for $50 to $100. I gave $75 for a COMPLETE 375 horse 396 in the mid 1970s.

At that time, that was all they were worth. It usually takes 25 to 30 years for a "regular" (not counting "special" runs of regular vehicles) autos to become a "collectible". The '57 Chevys I mentioned-look at all that gave their lives on stock car tracks, same for early Chevelles and Camaros. They were cheap. They got raced. They were destroyed, but so what-they were just cars, cheap, easily available cars. Now search the web for prices on a "base" '57 Chevy. Not cheap any more.

The body parts on most of the aforementioned cars are easily replaced since by the time they become "collectible" they have severe rust or dents anyway.

The real problem in restoring older cars is the small stuff. Look up the prices for original smog parts for the first gen Camaros and Chevelles. I yanked bunches of that stuff off and tossed it. Look at the prices of original radios, gauge clusters, underneath brackets, etc., etc.

I recommend you go ahead and modify all you want (and legally if you face the smog checks). HOWEVER, SAVE ALL THE STUFF YOU TAKE OFF!!!

Then, if you keep your car long enough for it to become a regular "collectible", then you have the hard stuff to find and your car becomes easier to sell.

It is your car. Do what you want with it.
jms

This subject hits home with me. I love the factory look of the '82-'87 Z28's and '85-'87 IROC's and have spent alot of time documenting these cars. Have also spent alot of money redoing an '86 Z28 and an '84 Z28 to original factory condition. It's unique because people just don't do original condition to third gens. At least not around here. But when people see my '84 and say "holy crap dude, that car looks like it just came off the showroom floor!" That is the payoff for all the hard work. Not that I'm against modifying our cars, It's just not for me. Do what makes YOU happy! Post #100.

I have a question for you I am interested in restoring thirdgens. I have to know now obviously you restore them to their factory looks but what about power wise. The thirdgen was a beautiful car for its time but it was born in a transition time where performance was coming back.

Personally I would restore it so it looked factory perfect. But who would know what cam you've got in there or if those heads are ported or if you increased the jets on the carb. These are things i would do to my thirdgen when I get one to restore. i believe that these cars look fast sitting still but unfortunately they were not made to go as fast as they looked.



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I WOULD RATHER PUSH A CAMARO THAN DRIVE AN IMPORT

1983Z28 350w/ edelbrock performer RPM power package with 64cc aluminum heads, dynomax shorty headers, 700R-4 with shift kit, 750cfm carb, edelbrock 3" exhaust system, ASCD SS hood, 16" IROC rims.

future mods:
completely done over suspension, black paint with flames, Hurst shifter, dakota digital gauge package, procharger supercharger.

restoring a car to all original means to make it the way it was purchased brand new...there is no way of bending the rules; you should enjoy your car for what it is not what it will be worth!

as far as moding it to look original but run faster, this is a really cool idea that will win overall style points; but still won't make it original, but faster is always better

my car.. is defiantely going to be more valuable original.. but I don't care.. I'm driving it for my fun.. if I bought the car to keep it original I would be having no fun with it.. (92 rs with heritage package) I figure that if I want to make it original I'll finda wrecked rs and throw the original parts back on.. get a 305 etc.. other than that.. the car is mine and I intend to have fun with it as opposed to being senile about changing it.. you only live once, and the car isn't going to be of any monitary value to me when I die.. might as well get a value out of enjoying it as part of my life.. eh?

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92 Rs Heritage Edition Camaro
305
3.27 posi Rear end
Flow masters
not to much else to make it more than stock until I put that 350 in shortly

IM: DarkHal 2000
Feel free to join my Webring listed on my web page (X-treme Fbody). I'm always looking for third gen's to add.
My site, http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/j/m/jmj211/index.htm

I've restored my formula back to the factory appearance and for the most part, performance, but I fully intend to mod the living **** out of it with as few giveaways as possible. I race it from time to time, and I show it from time to time, and I'm keeping it within minutes of showready. My previous best was 14.3 @ 97.4 with lots of tire spin, this time out I'm hoping for high 13's... A simple look under the hood will find nothing out of the ordinary other than Accel plug wires. Nobody anywhere is going to check cam specs, or the parts for porting, or anything like that.

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Drew
The lone Thirdgenner of the Apocalypse
predatorman@hotmail.com
My Website
87 Iroc
91 Formula 14.3@98mph
91 RS Convertible
91 Firebird V6For Sale
92 S10FOR SALE!
98 Grand Am GT

I would also consider your car modified. Personally, I prefer to keep mine original. Not because of what it may be worth in the future, but because it is what I enjoy. The reason I still have the 91 is because I love the look as is.

I do enjoy seeing modified third gen, and I respect the people who have the ability and guts to do it.



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Patrick Malinowski
1991 Z28 Convertible
All Stock 23K miles

I agree, I have made only one real mod to my 92 GTA and that's the exhaust, everything else is still original and that's the way I like it. It's not very fast but I love my car for what it is and that's whay I bought it and not for any other reason

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www.TransAmGTA.com
1992 GTA (226 made), 1 of only 18 "Dk. Jade Met." 92 GTA's, My Window Sticker, LB9, 700R4 4-Speed, T-Tops, Grey Leather, every available option except G92, J65 and U1A.
Current Mods/Upgrades: 80 Series Dual Outlet Flowmaster, TPIS Air Foil, K&N Air Filter, and Mobil 1.
Future Mods/Upgrades: None but a complete restoration.
Best Track Time: 14.6sec@96.6mph

"If it ain't broke, fix it til it is!"
Webmaster www.TransAmGTA.com
My 3rdGen Firebird Message Board!

[This message has been edited by 92GTA (edited April 22, 2001).]

Love my car.. just want a 350.. not going to do stupid things to it... just want better.. so keeping it 100% original doesn't bother me

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92 Rs Heritage Edition Camaro
305
3.27 posi Rear end
Flow masters
not to much else to make it more than stock until I put that 350 in shortly

IM: DarkHal 2000
Feel free to join my Webring listed on my web page (X-treme Fbody). I'm always looking for third gen's to add.
My site, http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/j/m/jmj211/index.htm

This topic does hit home with me. Family a friends ask why do you have 2 almost identical cars??? I bash them a bit about how one is a firebird and the other is a camaro but then end up saying One is a first year production that I want to keep original collector exct smog crap and the other one is my toy! So if you want to keep the car original it will be worth more but its a pain in the A** unless you have something else to drive "beat up". SSC

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If you really want to be original slap in a TURBO DIESEL!

exactly why I'm looking for a TA to play with to keep the cammy mostly original

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92 Rs Heritage Edition Camaro
305
3.27 posi Rear end
Flow masters
not to much else to make it more than stock until I put that 350 in shortly

IM: DarkHal 2000
Feel free to join my Webring listed on my web page (X-treme Fbody). I'm always looking for third gen's to add.
My site, http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/j/m/jmj211/index.htm

I sold my 69 Z28 last summer and bought my 87 IROC in it's place. I want another 69, but I wanted a car that was all original. I found the IROC with 6300 miles and was fully loaded. This car will be easier to keep #'s match and original than finding a 69 that's affordable and #'s match. My 69 had a 350 in it which drastically reduced it's value. If it still had the 302 (DZ block) engine, it could have been worth $25k. A 69 with a replacement factory 302 (CE block) sold in the high teens, and a 69 Z with a 350 was low to mid teens. My IROC will someday be worth something. If not to the rest of the world, it will to me. My next 69 will probably not be a Z28, so I can mod the suspension and under the hood. It will lok original driving down the road though.



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87 IROC 350 TPI with less than 10k original miles
www.users.uswest.net/~smoyer/iroc.htm
Northstar Camaro Club of Minnesota

Funny, I did it the other way. Five years or so ago I found a 1967 Firebird convertible. It was rough but solid, but more importantly, it was all-original. I originally bought it to drive all summer. One thing led to another, and my obsessive nature took over, and I ended up restoring it to best-of-show status (well, at least for local shows!). I now find it too nice to drive on a daily basis. I still drive it to shows and cruises but I won't be caught dead leaving it in a parking lot unless I can keep my eye on it the whole time. It's my baby!

That was too frustrating and depressing to contemplate, so I bought the 1992 Firebird convertible last November to use as my summer daily driver. I've already swapped in a 4th gen leather interior, swapped out the radio stuff, dumped the choking air-intake tube for an open-element aircleaner, and I'm thinking about doing more. I will keep the color the same and I will keep the gold lace wheels because I like those the way they are. And I am keeping all the original parts for the reasons posted above.

My 1967 is worth a bunch of money. It's irrelevant because I bought it to restore and enjoy, not to resell. But since the original question was about modifying vs. originality, there is no question that in my case at least, my 34-year-old Firebird is worth more because it's all original. You can be modified over and over, but you can only be all-original once.

Just my $.02 worth.

Dan
1992 Firebird convertible
1967 Firebird convertible

All my cars are modified except my '72 Vista Cruiser 455. And that will be modified too. I look at a fine original as a clean sheet of paper or a good place to start. The factory builds cars for the masses. I build my cars for me. I smile just thinking about when i pulled my LG4's and pitched them. Why should i putt around with 150 h.p. for the sake of originality. So i can get smoked by a Neon? NOT! LOL

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Kenney
82 Trans Am WS7 notchback
83 Trans Am WS6 T-tops
Painter @ Chevy dealer
GM junkie

[This message has been edited by 82 TRANS AM (edited April 24, 2001).]

i totally agree, i say do whatever you wish with your cars you find, i say that and i never even see any such first or even second gen F bodies runnign around, let alone some 50s car and other extinct stuff, we are in a new time, totally different vehicles dime a dozen currently, nothing rare, if you want it to go faster then yank that stupid original low HP engine out for a bigger one and/or rid of that crappy 2.73 or 3.08 axle for a nice 3.42 or 3.73 one
its all up to what you want from the car, these 80s cars wont last any longer than what the old ones have, they even seem to rust way faster than what they used to,

I am trying to restore my car to original condition. At least appearance wise. With performance and engine, I am keeping my accessories but I am going to mod the crap out of it. I am going to make it powerfull as hell. But I wish to keep it looking original. I am keeping the paint the same. And I am going to redo the interior. I am just trying to find door panels and everything else that's grey and in mint condition for my restoration.

I come from the thought that if don't you drive it, you should sell it. My 82 Bird upto last Nov(it got hit) was mostly orginal except the the 350 TPI motor and leather seets. I put both in to make it more enjoyable to drive. I replaced the LG4 because it was sick and didn't fit the body of the car. These Thirdgen Firebird are one of the best style cars every to come from GM.

I put the leather in, so my butt would feel better

Anyway I get the Bird back in a few weeks. It been upgraded with all of the right stuff. The value on it doesn't matter, its my baby!

I don't care what anyone says, my '83 L69 Camaro will be worth ALOT more with that L69 than it ever will be with a 350. I hope to get that L69 back this summer, partially for this reason, but it will still be modified.

I have no problems with people modifying cars, even really rare ones, like the '83 L69 cars... just dont do anything irreversible to the rarer cars (ie. tubbing the wheel wells, etc).

I'm gonna be modifying my '83 HO, but am limitting it to bolt ons only, like headers and exhaust, and keeping the original parts. Hell, all the emitions are off the car, but I still have them in my room (except AIR lines. Old owner mangled those)

A lot of people like to modify their cars. Most 3rd gens aren't all that fast by today's standards. I modifyed a 99% original '78 T/A but had I not bought it I would've modified the '92. Now I look at things a little differently and think that original is best although modified and faster is fun.
It's all about what you want to do. I'd like to think that my RS is a somewhat desireable car due to 1 year only color and it's really clean and all stock but the reality is there are probably 3000 others that were built just like it so it's not worth anything. Heck, I still run the factory Goodyear Eagle GA 235/55s on it. I'll just enjoy it stock. Anything I change now I'll make sure I can change back.

keeping the car stock is totally up to you , if you plan to sell the car in ten years then keep it stock , but if you are going to keep it for yourself then do what you want to it.

I have thought about this alot as well. I have had a T/A since I was 18. Had and 86, 88 and now have a 89. My 89 has 65,000 mi and is a 305tpi, 5 sp, T-top. I bought it about 2 years ago and I have literally put about 4,000 miles on it since then. It is completely stock. And is actually in near mint execept for some paint on the exterior. I keep it in the garage and never drive it and one half of me wants to mod it and be able to run 13's with it . The other half of me wants to keep it in the garage, drive it once in awhile and when in 10 -20 yrs take it too car shows, and really have a head turner. Do u think the 3rd gens will be worth alot in say 10-20 yrs?

What really gets me is that in my area I hardly see any T/A's at all. And if i do they are beat too ****. When i go to car shows there is hardly any of them there

I went to Carlise(which is a pretty big car show in PA) and there was like 2 or 3 T/A's there. There was a **** load of 3rd gen camaro's

So i don't know kind of stumped

Thanks guys

There are 2 questions you have to answer:

1. Who is going to care whether your car is "original", and why?

2. Who owns your car?

Some run-of-the-mill 15 or 20 year old TA that's been somebody'd daily driver all or most of its life isn't going to be worth one dime more to a prospective purchaser if it's "stock" or "original"; what that means to a purchaser is that the springs are shot, the exhaust has holes in it, the seats are ripped, etc. etc. Way more than 99% of these cars fall into that category. They simply aren't high-demand cars in the world at large. So don't hallucinate that 20 years from now, it will have tripled in value over its original purchase price, just because it's "original"; nobody gves a rip. These cars didn't excite the public's imagination like the 60s muscle cars did, and won't carry that same kind of allure on down the road.

On the other hand, if you have a really special one, like a TA pace car or a Players Z28 or something, then it might be worth a small premium to someone somewhere if it's original. But finding that one person might be a little tough when the time comes. And if they don't surface, all that "originality" won't matter to you either.

Now if you yourself simply like the appearance or performance or whatever about your car so much that you don't want it changed, or it has more value to you as all original, that's a different matter. But don't base your decision on some kind of fantasy that your car is going to appreciate like a 68 GTO or a 57 BelAir convertible, because it's just that.... a fantasy. Nobody out there cares.

Personally, I won't even bother with a car that's not a top of the line one. A regular sport coupe or a RS in the years those came out, or even a Z28 or IROC with less than the best engine available that year (like getting stuck with a LG4 or L03) is worthless to me, utterly and altogether; and of highly limited value to anyone else. There's absolutely no sense whatsoever in being a slave to "originality" with some base model car; even a 68 Camaro, if it has a 6-cylinder, only has value as something to jerk the 6-cylinder out of and put something appealing into. In fact I know people who would pay more for the car without the motor than they would if it was whole, just because then they wouldn't have to get rid of what they don't want. But if it's the car you like, and it belongs to you, then do whatever you want to it, and enjoy it.

RB do you feel better now that's off your chest? I say "to each his own". One persons trash is another persons treasure! If you want it to stay original fine, if you don't, fine!

phil

I feel terrible now!!!

That's my advice exactly.... do what you want, it's your car; but don't base your decision about what to do or not do to it on whether it's going to affect the resale value, because its "originality" probably won't change it one way or the other.

Yea, again, RB is right... basically, no matter how rare one of these cars are (with the exception of cars like the Firehawk), they will never be worth what a real muscle car was.

Even if I restored my '83 Z28 HO to 100% factory, it would still never be worth what a '69 Z/28 with an original 302 would be.

Hell, my uncle is trying to sell his '84 Corvette right now, which is in pretty good shape, but it will never fetch what something like a '70 Vette with an LT-1 or other SBC would (and nowere near what a 454 car is worth) and the '84 is totally bone-stock, with the Cross-Fire 350.

Hey u guys are right. And too be honest i wouldn't expect to get what the 69 z/28 and 70 corvettee's are worth. I don't want too even sell mine. I am simply saying u don't see alot of third gen especially T/A's that are in really nice shape with low mileage or totally restored. At least not in Pa. So too the right person, who has a love for them like myself I would consider paying a decent amount for one if it was in really in nice shape and orginal. When u have a desire for something it doesn't matter if the car isn't quote on quote worth it u'll still pay it In 10-20 yrs you are not going to see alot of 3rd gens around period. Cause there not around now.

Just my opionion though

Thanks

I bought my car to modify. I didn't buy my IROC-Z to sell it. Just like my Beretta GTZ, its rare enough to be desirable, and I'm just making it a little better.

My IROC-Z is my car and I fully intend to modify it to my taste and specs.

I too, am one that believes no 3RDGens, with obvious exceptions to say '89 TTA's, 1LE cars, and FireHawks, are going to be REALLY saught after in the future. Sure people will want them, but still not going to pay THAT much for a 3RDGEN.

I like to buy my cars original & keep all my cars original. The original look of the car is what made you love it in the first place so why change it? If you want it to look like a Race Car then you should but an import? These 3rd gen cars are so different & beautiful that we should keep them that way.

To be blunt, those of you who say that a third gen will not be worth money down the road don't seem to understand the old saying "History repeats itself."

You guys sound like my dad, when he had his '69 SS350 Camaro. Who knew what it would be worth now? When he sold it as a rusty 100k mile used car in '76, no one did. But to have that car now...he kicks himself every time we talk about it. Granted, he has made up for it...he has a sunset orange '02 Formula now

These cars WILL be worth money...even a clean LG4. Why? People want what they want, and these cars were THE car to have in the '80s. There's a lot of people out there right now in their 30s who by the time the kids fly the coop in another 10-15 years, will want that car they had in high school. And for them, maybe it was an IROC, or a TA, or a Monte SS, or ***-forbid a 5.0. Think about it...the muscle cars of the '60s were hot, no doubt....FOR THEIR TIME. Now, we have Neon Turbos that can annihilate an SS 396 Camaro bone stock. Read old car mags, and you'll see. The cars of the '80s were hot for their time too! With every passing year, all of these cars become more rare. Granted, the L98s, G92s, anniversary cars and such will be the big $$ cars, but look at what a run-of-the-mill 327 '69 Camaro runs now, versus what it sold for in say, the early '80s? Thats what an RS Camaro is like now...give it time.

Drive it, enjoy it, and IMO? Stock with bolt ons. As someone who plans to buy a nice one as soon as my Grand Am is paid off, I would NOT even CONSIDER a modded car...period. And many looking at these cars as collector items feel the same way. To say no one will want to collect a third gen is a joke...here's one right here...

And if I am lucky enough to get that '89 TA for $200 I posted about, rest assured, there will be one gorgeous, clean medium grey TA in Western, Ma...if I can only find a spot to put it

I agree that in terms of monitary(sp?) value, a stock car will be worth more in the future.

However, for me to drive my car around that already has 129,000 miles on it, I need some modifications. The interior screams REDO to me. Thats why I'm going with 4thGen seats. The stock seats, to me, were ugly and uncomfortable. Yes, its not original, but it is an improvment, and therefore, I'm going to do it.

As someone stated earlier, what draws us to the car is what it looks like in stock form, but for most of us, we see the stock car, and though we love it, we still picture it modified.

I guess its all in what your intentions are.

To me, a person who never plans on selling my IROC-Z, I will modify it the way I WANT IT. I love the car for what it is and I want to make my love for the car increase, by modifying it just the way I want it.

Now, lets say my intentions were to buy the car, return EVERYTHING to original showroom condition and then resell in 10-20 years, yes, original would be better.

All in all though, I don't think that anyone would really say, there's not one thing they'd WANT to change on their cars. From seats, to color, to engine, to power options, I mean, just because it came from the factory does not immediately mean its perfect. If you see that point, look again at the 4thGen cars. It looks to me like they took a 3rdGen platform, and modified it with the latest in comfort and performance. Look at all of the "interchangeable" parts. Looks like an improved 3rdGen to me - As far as performance goes - I still love the 3rd's over the 4th's.

Enough rambling - All in all, just boils down to personal preference.