I have an offer for a trade for my 92z and want to know what you think. I have always wanted a nonservice b4c.

He is willing to trade his 91 b4c, 305 tpi, 5-speed, 60k original miles. It is a non service police camaro for my 92 z28, 350 with 49k miles

My camaro and his have the following same options:

pw, pl, power hatch, power mirrors, rear defroster, limited slip axle (G80), Rear shade.

Here are the differences:

92 z28 91 B4C

350 auto 305 5-speed
red leather custom grey cloth
power seat no power seat
auxiliary lighting no aux. lighting
factory cd player plain radio
3.23 gears 3.42 gears
49k miles 60k miles

Both cars are in the same condition with a few scratches here and there. The interior on both are nearly mint. My car has new tires (less than 300 miles) and a new ac recharge. He has a new clutch.

He has the original window sticker and purchase order. I have no original paperwork.

Also, he converted his ac from r12 to r134, does this hurt the value or can it be converted back to r12?

Thanks and any info would be appreciated.

Here is a link to my pics:

http://community.webshots.com/user/topduarte2

Manny



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92 Bright Red z28, 350, 47k miles, pw, pl, power mirrors, power drivers seat, rear defroster, limited slip performance axle, 4 wheel discs, red leather interior and the Heritage Package!!

 

In my opinion you'd be taking a hit. Going for higher mileage and to a car that was effectively just a cheap Z28 is silly if you ask me. Granted the B4C might be more unusual and more collectible, but in the long run and in comparing the two cars I'd stick with what you already have.

As for the A/C it doesn't really matter, depending on what kit was used the valves can be removed without releasing the pressure and no one would know by looking at the car what type of refrigerant was in the compressor.

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Drew
predatorman@hotmail.com
83 Camaro 5.0L *1995-98*
87 Iroc 5.7L
91 Formula 5.7L 14.3@98mph
91 RS Convertible 5.0L
91 Firebird 3.1L 17.00@82mph *Gtech*
92 S10 2.8L
98 Grand Am GT 3100
Parts for sale

[This message has been edited by Drew (edited December 10, 2001).]

 

Stay with the car you have. 1992 Z28's with 350's generall speaking cam with the best suspension and nicest TPI setup ever on 350's. Also, a 350 drives a lot different than a 305 from my experience. 305 takes off OK, but then the 350 starts walking away. That is even before any mods. 350's with higher performance cams and worked over L98 heads will easily top 280HP.

I have to say Drew is right on this one. The uniqueness of the B4c is not enough to justify the trade down.

Mike

 

I agree with them.

 

Well, you say you have always been looking a non-service B4C and you finally found one. In my opinion, a car with all the documentation will blow away the ones without. Especially when talking future collectability and value. You have a nice rare car but the 350 Z28 was the most plentiful Z made in 1992 but it does have the heritage package. Now the 305 5spd B4C's were the more rare of the ones made. Texas bought the most with Utah, Nevada, and Nebraska following with 5spds. Virtually the all the rest ordered the 350 automatics. I have owned several B4C's and have ran across several 350 auto B4C's that never made it into service. This is the 1st 5spd one I have ever heard of especially with those options. Remember most B4C's were strippers with the exception of the FBI's that were fully loaded(I own one). Personally I would probably jump at the chance especially if I had been looking a non-service B4C. 350 Z28's are a lot easier to find than non-service B4C's. Hope this helps.



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1992 L98 DGGM B4C (X-FBI car)FOR SALE
1992 X-CHP B4C, Black and White.

 

Documentation isn't THAT big a deal. My Formula came to me with the VIN and the RPO sheet, thats it. Now I have one of the largest collections of documentation I've ever seen for the 91 Firebird. If I had $35 I'd have a reproduction window sticker to finish it off. The resources are here now to re-establish documentation, and they only get better every year.

 

I guess we will see in the future if it means nothing or not. Come on, be honest, which would you prefer, a car with full documentation or one that has none.

 

Well, being an L98 owner I am going to defend the B4C in this case (someone has too).

First, both cars are very low mileage IMO. 60,000 miles is nothing for a 10 year old car. Also, if I recall, the B4C is a 1LE car (better brakes)...but double check.

As for the 350 vs 305 - auto vs manual. I personally am looking for something like that B4C myself - yank out the 305/5-speed and put in a 415+ with a HD aftermarket tranny. This way if I "disintegrate" the engine/tranny, I'll have the original.

Swapping a motor is easier than swapping an auto to a manual. If you LOVE a manual, then I think you already know your answer. 5 speed 305s are not easy to find.

Lastly, the conversion to R134 is not a bad thing. R12 is banned in many countries (can't get where I live for the last 4 years) and most likely will be banned in the US in the not too distant future. If you want AC, you will eventually have to look for alternatives to R12, it is inevitable.

My recommendation, get the B4C, pull the tranny and motor (to save them) and put in a "bigger motor" and a strong aftermarket tranny. If you remain with a "one piece" seal engine, you can look at installing a T56 6 speed.

 

Well said. To tell you the truth, I never noticed too much of a power difference between the two. 350 vs 305 in the B4C's. They both run pretty hard and are capable of low 14's, but the 350 will be easier to go faster. My FBI has ran a 13.97 @ 98mph. Real decent for a pretty stock L98 B4C. Goodluck with any decision you come to. There was also a Purple B4C with less than 3k miles for $20k in the autotrader a few months back.


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1992 L98 DGGM B4C (X-FBI car)FOR SALE
1992 X-CHP B4C, Black and White.

 

I really appreciate all the info. I have been swaying back and forth on what decision to do all week.

I did see the purple 92 b4c with 3k miles. I have been talking to that guy also but he wants $22500!

I lost out on a 92 b4c 350 with 14k miles in Chicago. It was fully loaded including the locking rear storage. It sold for $13500.

If this b4c was a 92, I would have definitely said yes now. It does not have the 1LE on the rpo's so it does not have the bigger brakes.

The guy and I have been emailing each other all week and I am going to talk to him tonight.

I believe in original documentation but as Drew said, there are plenty of sources to obtain "reproduceable" documents on your car. But in my opinion I would rather have the original documents.

It is a hard decision to make. I will probably make a final decision this weekend.

At first some of you had said, keep your 92 but then a few of few came and said make the trade. One of you even stated that many of the 305 b4c's came plain jane but this one has quite alot of options. Of all the 305 b4c's I have seen, this is also the first 305 that came with options. I have heard of alot of the 350's came loaded.

To keep it technical, has anybody ever seen a 91 b4c with the 1LE on the rpo's? I know all 92 b4c's came with the 1LE rpo but some book somewhere stated that some of the late 91's had the 1LE. Is this true?

Any other info on whether to keep my 92 z or trade for the 91 b4c would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!!

Manny

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92 Bright Red z28, 350, 47k miles, pw, pl, power mirrors, power drivers seat, rear defroster, limited slip performance axle, 4 wheel discs, red leather interior and the Heritage Package!!

 

Are you nuts??!!!! You have a LOW mileage 25th anniversary "Heritage Package" Z-28. Not to many of them were made either! Yes, even fewer B4C's were made, but it's a '91 . A car is only worth what someone will pay you for it. Alot more people would desire your car in the long run due to the fact that many people do not know what a B4C is, they would think it is just an RS and a 91 (not a 25th anniversary Z-28)Years down the road, your car will be worth more (like the 35th SS "Heritage" Camaro). Catch my drift? Stick with what ya got and keep the miles low. Nice ride by the way!

 

As much as I love the B4C's, and 5-speeds even more, I would have to say that if I were in your situation, I would keep my Z.

The fact that it is a 35 anv. ed. would be a factor.... It is the last year for the thirdgen, the best year!

If it was a 92 RS, I would jump all over it, but unfortunatly it isnt.

I would say this, just keep what you have.



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http://kiztope.50megs.com
92 Pontiac Firebird Formula WS6 5.7/A4
K&N, Blue Streak Cap and Rotor, strange unknown exhaust system (sounds good though)...
Mods are in direct proportion to income!

92 Rs 3.1/T-5
Beautiful car, many mods, but now I am turning attention to the 'bird!

AIM : Theonekiztope
ICQ: 8787542

"Maybe one day life will take a turn. When it does Lean into it!" Leon Calrinsky (98)

 

f the Z....trade the mo fo....B4C will be worth more and more in the future....sure maybe they are worth the same now but as soon as people find out that is was a police edition and time passes by and more and more a taken off the road from crashes you will truly have a pretty rare car....Also couldn't a stock B4c 305 TPI 5spd keep up with a Stock B4c 350 auto.....

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1987 Black 305 TPI 5spd IROC, G92, 9-bolt 3.45, Lowered, Cat-back, Air Foil, Sub Frames, Huge sways

"YOU All Laugh Because I'M Different, I Laugh Because YOU'RE All The Same" - me
AIM: IROC 5spd
http://www.geocities.com/chevy5spdiroc/87Roc.htm

 

In stock configuration a LB9 5spd is still 2-5 tenths of a second slower in the quarter than the same year L98 auto. In the long run if these cars are still around when they become valuable if they ever have a following like 67-70 Camaro's have now, a heritage package with a 350 will demand more money than a 305 B4C. Both are about the same on the "aw schucks" meter, but mileage, year, condition, options, everything puts his current Z ahead of the B4C. Add an RPO to the SPID in his Z, remove the stripes, the leather, the spoiler, and the hood bulges, then pull the 350 and install a 305/5spd and you'd have what he's thinking of trading to. 3 characters on a SPID label don't mean anything now, and they won't mean anything in another 20 years.

 

Funny that the three letters like ZL1, LS6, and even the LT1 in 1970 all mean a great deal these days.

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1992 L98 DGGM B4C (X-FBI car)FOR SALE
1992 X-CHP B4C, Black and White.

 

The comments about the 35th Anniversay Z-28 being more "recognizable" to the "average consumer" than a B4C is quite true. The B4C is only "known" by some "dedicated F-body enthusiasts" versus the Z-28 to "Joe Blow Public".

Ditto on the 350 auto vs 305 5-speed. Though there is only a couple of 10ths difference between the two, to the "average person" the 350 just sounds more desireable as it was the "biggest, most powerful" engine available in a 3rd Gen F-body. Not that there was a great deal of difference between the two engines, the 350 had more torque but minimal (10 HP) over 305.

[This message has been edited by Glenn91L98GTA (edited December 14, 2001).]

 

"ZL1, LS6, and even the LT1"

Those RPO's for 82-92 are going to be L98, Z28, B2L, B4Z, etc. The big guns are going to be the highest performance. With our cars the L98 was #1. The super desirable cars from a value standpoint will be the Firehawks, the TTA's. Anniversary cars, convertibles, notchbacks, one year only and low production cars will all have a following too, but unless it created a seat of the pants difference or was/is an Icon of performance such as WS6 or Z28 then an RPO won't gain notariety.

 

Very true Drew. For the "regular production F-body models", 1992 GTAs are one of the lowest (200) followed by 90 GTAs (800+) and 91 GTAs (2,000). But, in spite of their low production numbers, and near identical performance to a Z28/IROC, there is no great price difference between the two. In fact, in my area, the Camaro tends to have a slightly higher asking price. But then again, I don't see many 90-92 GTAs for sale. But when I do, there is "no premium" for the GTAs, in spite of their low production numbers.

I still think the real criteria is "What do you want to drive"? If you REALLY want a 5-speed (and many do), then you know your answer. Conversely, if having a 5-speed is not that big of a deal (and many don't care or even prefer an automatic), then the Z28.

I think your decision should be based on "what do you want to drive". I personally am not too big on owning a car that I can only "sit and polish". I want to drive it. I guess that is why my car has 200,000+ miles.

 

Don't get me wrong Glenn, I'm behind the Firebirds 110%, but this thread is based on the Camaro and also typically (even firstgens) Firebirds are cheaper. Doesn't bother me, Firebirds are nicer cars and if I ever sell any of mine they'll have a hefty price tag attached.

I agree about driving the cars that are meant to be driven. The way I deal with my torn emotions of preserving and enjoying is that I bought several cars. My convertible is my pristine car that gets driven 20 miles a month, My Formula is my modified, unusual, high performance car that I drive the **** out of and show regularly, the Iroc is my restoration project for the future, and the V6 is my pallette to be modified however I choose without damaging the value of a rare car.

 

I don't take anything you are saying Drew as incorrect. The point of my post was to show that it's really "Joe Blow Public's" opinion that really counts when it comes to "value". Not what we "obscure 3rd Gen Enthusiasts" think.

We, as enthusiasts, may know that a non-police B4C with a 305 5-speed is fairly unusual and have darn near the same performance as an L98. But the public may not, and hence their may not be a price difference to reflect the vehicle's rarity.

Heck, my 91 GTA has "Daytime Running Lights". Unusual? Yes. Valuable? No.