okfoz

I am trying to decipher the numbers on the Body Panel Vin decals.

When your looking at your decals there are a total of 9 decals.

See attached file for locations.

On the tag in the lower RH corner there is a 5 digit number. Its sometimes faint, but its made from a dot matrix printer.

What I have noticed is the VIN is obviously the same on all of the panels, but the number on the bottom is slightly differnt for each tag.

What I have noticed is the last digit is the only one that changes and it typically goes in alphabetical order as you work your way back on the car. Although there is no set order but if you take note of each decal they are in sequence. For example they go from P Q R S T U V W X or Q R S T U V W X Y

One car there is a single decal missing on the hatch, as it happens it would be the last decal in the set, AND its after Z, so it would be S T U V W X Y Z ?, I am not sure if it rolls over to 1, or it goes to A, or where it goes.

Does any one know how to decipher the code, or what would come after Z, if you have a car that rolls over what are the numbers/letters and how do they change after Z?

John

okfoz

no one knows?

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

1982’s don’t have these and that is where my “expertise” is, but I have a bunch of general GM thirdgen documents at home. I’ll see if I can find anything.

It says SER. NO. next to it. My guess is that each label has a serial number so is can be tracked. I would guess there are a lot of federal rules/regulations regarding printing these labels, since they have VINs on them.

okfoz

Thats kind of what I gahtered too, SER NO. = Serial Number... I was just wondering if there was a way to decipher it, or if there was something after "Z" It would have to be either a 0 (Zero), 1 or an A as there are letters and numbers its hard to tell...

Whats interesting is I have 2 1987 cars,
ONE was shipped on 6-24-87 came from NOrwood, OH and the last 5 digits of the vin is 46****, and the ser no is A4ZLP thru X .
The Other was 6-26-87 came from Van Nuys, CA and the last 5 digits are 30*** and the ser nos are A59WS thru Z ( I am missing the one off the hatch).
THe Third 87 car I only have the 2 decal pictures, as I sold it on the 15th. Hatch Decal is 56MKY, and Hood decal has 56MKR, the RH door decal is unreadable... the VIN is 216*** so it was an earlier car, The LH Door decal states 2/87.

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

I don’t have anything on these stickers. My guess is that they would start at AAAAA and go to 99999. That is about 60 million different stickers. At 10 per car that’s enough for 6 million cars (roughly).

In the 80’s GM was producing 6 to 7 million vehicles per year (I don't have the exact numbers for 1987) assuming only US cars had the VIN sticker, that would mean each sticker would get a unique serial number across the entire GM line. If that's true then there is virtually no correlation between the vehicle date and the Vin sticker serial number.

This makes sense to me for two reasons, first. the point of the VIN stickers is to help curb auto theft and stolen parts resale, so it's reasonable to assume the federal government would want to track each one. And by track I mean make it difficult for people to reproduce or forge these stickers. And second… well I guess there is no second. This is all speculation on my part but it seems reasonable, at least to me.

okfoz

I guess one thing at a time...

If you looking at the decal does anyone have a NUMBER for the last digit.

Actually I am thinking they start with 11111 and then all the way to ZZZZZ. As my earlier 87 car starts with a number and my later 87 cars start with a letter. there are probably no "0" zeros, They shoud be an O, all capital letters and numbers giving a total combination of 35 possible letters and numbers. AT first I was thinking that the 5 numbers and letters were single plant only, but upon multiplying 35 * 35 * 35 * 35 I got 1,500,625 therefore if they started at 11111 then 21111 would be the 1.5 millionth tag, WAY too many for the F-body line alone, a car with the sn: A1111 would be the 15.0 millionth tag and so on...

Upon even further thought there are 9 tags on each car, there may be a 10th but I do not think so OR it may be the drivers door jamb decal but I found no printing on that tag with the serial number. 21111 would give me a total of only 15 thousand vehicles which is quite possible in the firebird line However my February car started with a number 5, both of my June cars start with the letter A, bringing it back to across the board.

IF there was a total of 10 tags per car (easier to calculate) therefore from 11111 thru ZZZZZ would be 52,521,875 total tags, or 5.25 MILLION cars which I believe may be sufficient for the entire GM fleet. WHat I find confusing is the fact that my June cars start with the letter A, that only gives a total of 1.5 MILLION cars... definately way below the numbers that I would expect from GM. Of course thats assuming that ALL car lines got the decals.

SO at this juncture I am still trying to determine if anyone has a number for the last digit, and if you have located the other 8 decals, what are the last numbers of each, it MAY shed some light on this and help us in the future.

John

scottmoyer

John,
If I wasn't so stinking lazy, I'd go to the garage, pull off the car cover, and start looking at this for you. But like I said, lazy! I'll see what my stickers have on them tonight.

okfoz

I tell you... some people..



John

shr00m

iTrader: (2)

Previous theft car here, really good thieves. I have no vin plate nor any stickers. Good to know I was at least looking in the right spots. Luckily the block matched and rare enough color / options to verify the title's right.

Kevin D.

Guest

I finally looked at my car today. Guess what?

Anyway, the hood has an 8 for the last digit. The RH door has 2 stickers, one is a C or G the other an H. The stickers arent the same. Ones up front are gone from what I can tell. One of the rears is obscured by ASC overspray, the other I have no intentions of getting to anytime soon, its a PITA to get in there. The rear support is unprinted or faded away.

92RS(real slow)

Are these just on firebirds, because I have a few on my car, but haven't see any of the others?

okfoz

THe ones on he right door one is a bar code correct?

As for the overspray on the rear fenders, my vert had the same problem It WAS A federal offence to paint these at one time. I have a friend who owns a frame shop in Ohio, if an inspector came in and found a paintd vin decal he could get in serious trouble if his shop did the work. ALSO if only ONE of the panels had a vin from a stolen car he told me they "could" confenscate the entire car.

the decal on one of my cars behind the LH compartment was just above the line of the cardboard so I did not have to remove it. My yellow Formula that I show I do not have the cardboard in the compartment any more because I put a CD changer in there.

As for the paint on the decals. I took some Acetone (nail polish remover) on a cotton que-tip and gently wiped it until I could read it... I was not worried about completely removing the paint as I would have removed all of the information, but just enough to where it was readable. I considered using Laquer thinner but I thought it would be to harsh... the Acetone worked great...

Some of them are hard to find, especially the ones on top of the bumper support on camaros, I cant imagine them to be an easy spot with the headlights being right there. The front fenders are usually obscured by something, I had to get under one car and remove the panel and look up to see it on the LH side. It was in the oddest place, back close to the wheel well. usually there closer to the middle of the area behind the horn, bracket or battery where you cant read it all anyways. The one on the rear bumper I know I can read without any problem on the Formulas but I am not sure how the bumper extensions work on the Camaros and Trans Ams and how much they cover.

JOhn

Klortho

John, here's another kicker for you.

My car is a Van Nuys with a date of 6/87 on the door tag. 30238 as the sequence number.
Hood is 9SY1Q
Driver fender is 9SY1R
Pass fender is 9SY1T
Pass door is 9SY1O (not zero)
Pass quarter is 9SY1V
Driver quarter is 9SY1X

The car doesn't have the original hatch, and can't get to the one on the back bumper (yet) and I can't make the one out on the front bumper support, the numbers look to be faded off.

So if you went with the sequence number of your car, and the sequence number of mine the first digit of yours being A and mine being 9 I would say it rolls over to a number after Z probably either 0 or 1.

Guest

Its actually the one on the passenger side I dont feel like getting to. I know its not visible without at least moving the tire, enter the PITA.

I didnt see one on the front support but I think its been replaced. The RH shock bracket is a replacement part and looks like the LH fender is a replacement part as well. The LH fender does have a serial number but there are like 6 digits (all numbers, does not match the others on the car) and the VIN is not on the sticker.

I might try the acetone on the driver side, I only had to open the side compartment to get to it. I wonder if I can use some magic chemical to temporarily display the one on the rear bumper?

okfoz

About the acetone thing, I was really patient with it, it actually took me about 5 min of rubbing to get the the point of readability for each one. Dont over do it as you cant put the info back on once you have rubbed it off. I believe the ink is an oil or laquer base, not a water base, Unfortunately the paint can only be removed with laquer thinner and so can the decal letters... I guess if they used a water base like from an ink-jet printer then washing the car would allow the ink to wash away.

Its bazar, I was doing some special printing and then painting the printing for a project I was doing. I thought I would use the color laserJet printer at work because it would only take a fraction of the time to print. As it turned out When I used clear spray paint the Laser Print would run something horible. BUT when I used the ink-jet the color stayed and I was able to do my project. BUT you take the same things the Laser will hold up under water but the ink-jet will just run.

My point is you have to be careful with the decals on the car as they are suseptible to non water based thinners including acetone.

I don't know why I went through al that your probably smarter than I am but I just wanted to caution you I guess...

John

scottmoyer

I didn't completely check all stickers, but the hood ended in U, the passenger fender was W and the passenger door was X. I'll look tomorrow on the rear hatch and anywhere else I can see.

Guest

Yup, second sticker is a bar code.

scottmoyer

Rear hatch is a "Y". For anymore, I will need to take the car cover off completely.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Some of mine's last digits are letters, but most are numbers. And they seem to be in three sequences of consecutive threes: three across the rear body panels; three length-wise, rear-to-front; three across the front body panels.

423FA = driver quarter*
423FB = rear hatch
423FC = pass quarter

423F4 = rear bumper support
423F5 = pass door
423F6 = front bumper support

423F7 = pass fender
423F8 = driver fender
423F9 = hood**

* I didn't feel like fighting the storage compartment tonight to get to the driver quarter. But because of the other two letters in the rear, I'm guessing it's probably the letter A, though it could be the letter D, making the hatch the first in that sequence similar to how the hood is probably** the last in that sequence. I'll try to confirm it Thursday night or Friday morning.

** Unfortunately, the hood was replaced 15 years ago, so there's no label. But again, due to the order of the apparent sequences, it was probably the number 9.

John, you didn't say which end of the sequence of letters were at the rear of the car. I'd guess your hatch would be in sequence with the other two rear panels.

My car was built in 12/86 in Norwood, and its VIN is higher than yours that was built in 2/87. All of the labels it has are still like new, perfectly legible, no guesswork needed. Like everyone else's, there's no label of this kind on the driver's door. There's no second label on the passenger door.

okfoz

LAFireboyd,
My Norwood OH car does not have the 2nd decal either, is your car from Norwood or Van Nuys?

The actual sequence is different on each of my cars, but usually it goes from the front of the car to the rear of the car. Yours is close to that, But the 4 on the rear bumper support kind of throws me off...

------------
Scott.... Afraid to remove the cover? Are you afriad to break a nail....

JOhn

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Mine goes from the rear ->A, B, C, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9-> to the front, smaller to larger as you'd count or spell.
----------
I know it was early for you, but...
----------

okfoz

Actually I think the sequence is 4,5,6,7,8,9,A,B,C No "Zero" The reason I suspect this is it makes more sence with the numbers/Letters you have. IT also falls into line with the other cars I ahve looked at. The only 2 that are more or less of out of sequence from front to back would be the door and the rear bumper support... Beyond that it still is within reason.

In a way you confirm a suspicion with the sequence that you posted, that there was no Zeros used.

your right it was early...

John

Guest

Confusion between zero and 'o', so they eliminated one. Probably no 'I' used either.

okfoz

Very Possible

scottmoyer

Not a nail, John. Afraid some dust might land on the paint and require a complete detail because of it.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I felt the driver quarter label in there today, but I'd have to take the rear apart to see it, and I'm not gonna do that. It's probably the letter A, but that'll have to remain unconfirmed.

I'm not sure there is a solution to how or why they labeled the cars as they did. But if they didn't simply begin at the rear of the car and work forward, or begin at the front of the car and work rearward, then maybe they began with the structure of the car(the frame) and worked upward. Then like a puzzle, connecting the next adjacent piece to continue, they continued with the front panels(moving upward from the front frame), then they returned to the rear of the car, where they began, to label the final three panels, having gone 'full circle,' so-to-speak, 'closing-up' the car.

If so, then on my car they'd have begun by labeling the rear frame(4), then the door(5) because it's centrally-located within the rear-to-front direction, then the front frame(6), then, continuing in the front where they left-off, the fenders and hood(7, 8, 9), then, returning to the rear where they began, finishing with the quarters and hatch(A, B, C).

That also seems to fit with your observation and theory of the switch from numbers to letters, going from 9 to A.

okfoz

TTT

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Bringing this one back.

The underhood passenger side metal tag is 00 4048

The passenger door barcode label has a (sequence ?) number A0004048

Serial #OQXD9

And guess what, the first owner removed the build date label from the driver's door. Being the second owner, this sucks!. Well at least they left the tire size decal that reminds me that my car came with P195/70R14 tires.

Back in 1993 when I first bought my car, I called Chevrolet customer service and the nice lady on the other line said my car was built in September of 1986.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Any way to confirm my exact build date with the info I provided above?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Its not on the driver side door decal??/

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Previous and first owner decided they didn't like it and took it out.

okfoz

phs-online.com has information for 1982-1986
gm heritage has information for 87-92

You could get the dealer invoice that will show you the date, and all the options

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for your response okfoz. I do know about those two sites. I was hoping after reading all these post on third gen, that someone would know off hand how to decipher the info.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sadly, not much is free or easy anymore.

okfoz

the Only thing you can decipher from the VIN
is
1) Who Made it where and for what division
2) the seatbelts, Airbags, etc
3) whether it is a Coupe, Convertible,
4) Engine
5) Year
6) Factory made
7) Sequence number

You need a SPID, Build Sheet or Dealer Invoice to really get the nitty gritty on the rest of the car for options.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Yup, I already have all that info. Guess i'm going to have to order the factory info get the exact build date just to confirm from what I know back in the 90's.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Try the dealer, never know, sometimes they can get some random info.

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Last time I went to a dealer the parts guy called my car a 5.0 slow. And another dealer didn't want to deal with me since my car was too old and wasn't an IROC. Told them to go to he'll basically.