I'm trying to track down the history on my car a bit. Decoding the VIN tells me its just a bland 305 TBI from 1991. A quick look under the hood verifies that the motor is simply a TBI. Yet some things came on the car that don't seem to make sense:

First is the wheels. They look to be 15" versions of the GTA wheels.



Ok, so maybe they made some cool wheels, that's it right? Well I was replacing the center piece in the taillight because it is damaged. I asked for a gold one, as it matches the rest of my car. But upon research, these orange/red ones supposedly only came on the GTA?


So was there a GTA appearance package from the factory that could be had? Was there any special edition that this could be? Or did someone simply replace plain jane parts with GTA style parts afterwards?

 

The aero package was popular on the 91-92 base firebirds, probably since those were the last years and they were discounting the option to get rid of the parts.
My buddy had a 91 305 tbi firebird with the aero package as well as my friends 91 V6 and a couple of local 91-92 birds in the trading post that were getting parted out, we stripped 2 of them.

 

Ok, so what all did the aero package include? I'm curious as to what is/was different on my 'bird than on the standard TBI.

p.s.: The formula hood pictured on my car above is something I added to replace a damaged hood.

 

I've heard of an appearance package that came on the '91 and '92 base Firebird. It would come with 15 inch gold wheels like yours in place of the standard wheels and had gold Firebird badges on the fenders in place of the standard silver.

The GTA didn't use that center piece.

 

Hello. In assisting you with tracking down information regarding your car - I am sorry to say your car is just as it is. No special appearance package, NOTHING GTA. If it does not have the WS6 suspension package it is just a baseline Firebird. If it has Ws6, it MAY be a Formula. The gold Diamond spoke rims were OEM off a 91/92 Firebird. They are not the same as GTA rims. Those same rims were also on my 87 305 HO, except in standard silver. If you take a look at some Firebirds, they have the same rims just not in Gold. They changed the color to gold in 91/92 ONLY. As for the center piece - GOLD is on GTA. The Red & Orange center piece came OEM on Trans Am's. They are a dime a dozen and acquired very easily. The Gold one's are hard to come by and much more rare & expensive as they were off the GTA's. GTA's are VERY distinguishable. They have GTA steering wheels, GTA map pocket, specially placed Sail panel emblems, GTA hood badge, many other uniquely distinguishable features. More information can be found on GTA's at www.gtasourcepage.com - GREAT SITE!!!! There was no GTA appearance package available on a Firebird. I am sure OEM GTA parts such as GTA rims could be ordered for extra, but your car has standard parts - Nothing out of the ordinary or special. It may be an Aero Package as previous member stated - I do not know. No offense but I have moved up on baseline firebirds & finally got the one I been wanting, never had a need to read up on 91/92 Firebirds so there maybe the Aero package. I do not know. My car is a true 1987 GTA w/ factory manual 5 spd transmission. She is one of 700. Sorry to inform you - It appears that you have a baseline 305 TBI w/ 170 HP w/ perhaps the Aero package. Good luck researching. Hopes this helped.

 

Yes it is.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-firebird.html

 

Blackphoenix: It is almost as if you took offense to the suggestion that my car could even look like a GTA. Trust me, I know that if my car is a 91 and there's a TBI underhood, its nothing special or rare. As I stated in the beginning of the post "Decoding the VIN tells me its just a bland 305 TBI from 1991." All I'm trying to do is track down exactly what my car is, and what options it came with.

82FirebirdTA: Thank you for the link. The W68 package describes my car perfectly.

 

1) The Tail light center piece in 1991 & 1992 had a RED Bird & Pontiac, from 1986 thru 1990 the center piece had a silvery Gold Bird & Pontiac.

2) Starting in 1989 Pointiac offered on all Base Firebirds a Ground effects package (W68) which used the same GFX as the Trans Am & GTA for the particular year. The difference was the GTA and Trans Am got the Aero Spoiler and the Vented Hood. The Base firebird got the base flat hood, no buldge no vents. The Formula got the Bulge hood and was the only model to get so from 1987 thru 1992.

3) The Wheels you have on the car appear to be the 15" Type. The GTA, & Formula always got the 16" Wheels. THe Trans Am got the 15" Rims standard and 16" Optional (WS6 only) in 1987. Starting in 1988 I think all T/A's got the 16". AFAIK Base Firebirds never had a wheel size option they were all 15" from 1987 thru 1992.

 

Since nobody has adressed HOW the GTA taillight center section is different....

The GTA piece has an embedded emblem, not the screen print from behind, like the others.



Mine is a bit different...GTAs didn't get the PONTIAC lettering on the red refltor strip. But the pic shows the gold emblem embedded. It is a bit hard to make out the black outline shadow, but just look closely.

 

Trans Ams have that too, just different colored bird.

Campin, dont mind the GTA freaks. There's more than a few that forgot their car was built from a Firebird.

 

I'm no "GTA freak", but the GTAs did get a different center section along with the TTAs, butthey are just GTAs with a different option/drivetrain package) with the embedded 'bird...othe 'birds didn't. Theirs were screen printed from the inside. GTAs got the seperate "stick on" emblem.

 

FYI Your center section is from an 85/86 Firebird SE. (Not flaming, just trying to keep things clear in this thread. )

 

I think he was speaking more to the poster who seemed offended that I would suggest my car might be graced with any sort of GTA parts at all.

And the more I research it, the more I see this was supposed to be a GTA look-alike package. Maybe not the same parts even, but it was supposed to make the base models at least look sort of like the GTA or a Trans Am.

I also don't doubt the theory that GM, knowing the production run on 3rd gen's was about to end, set up this package (at least the 91-92 version) as a way to clear extra parts out of the supply house.

Anyways, its nice to be able to put a label to the things I've noticed on my car, like the fog lights, ground fx and gold rims. Honestly I'm glad to see that it's a factory package and not just something that was tossed on. I already suspect this car has been through a few accidents, and the more non-factory parts, the more suspicious I get.

Again guys, my purpose is NOT to think that I somehow ended up with an overlooked GTA. I'm only trying to figure out exactly what this car left the factory floor with, and how different it is from that right now.

 

I think the point Madmax was making was that GTA was not the only one to receive the center section with the "embedded" Bird. If you look around at the 1988 Trans AMs (not GTAs) they also had that center section with the "embedded" Bird. My own 1988 Trans AM has the silver "embedded" Bird. I want to think the 1987 is the same but I'm not sure when it shifted from printed to embedded.

 

The taillight issue is pretty simple. 85-90 T/A, 85-86 SE and 87-90 GTA all shared the same taillights. The center sections between the T/A and GTA were identical. The GTA center section always had a gold bird. The T/A could have a variety of color birds. The S/E center section was also shared, the only difference being the PONTIAC script in the reflector. (The exception being the 89 TTA)

What Okfoz said applies to the 86-92 Firebird lights center section.


Of course...the car in question would have had the standard 91/92 Base model & Formula taillights because it is simply a Firebird with the W68 package.

 

To add to the center section debate, while it may not be the authority, this helps illustrate the points:


http://www.moderndaymuscle.com/inc/sdetail/952
Modern Day Muscle states it's a NOS 1985-1992. Though I'm not sure it's the correct years, it shows that it's a filler/embedded silver/gray emblem.


https://pontiworld.com.au/gtaemblems...6dd6638414afdc
GM Emblems shows what the GTA used, which was simply a Gold version.

EDIT: TAdan thanks for the additional information on the taillights and center sections. I did not see your post while I was composing this one.

 

What they all said.

It shifted to being printed when the taillights changed in 91, when the bird disappeared from the revised TA/GTA taillights. IIRC my 85 TA had a gold bird but its been so long I cant say for sure. It was not white (the car color), I'm certain it was not silver (didnt match the car), pretty sure it was not red (my 86 TA's is though) so that doesnt leave too much. It *may* have been orange to match the fade stripe, but I think it was gold, same as the wheels, and in line with the beige interior... and that car was absolutely 100% original. Maybe its the same as a local member who has a nearly identical 86 as my 85. In 84 the taillights were a different design and I cant remember if the bird was printed or a separate emblem stuck in there.

As far as what I meant, ever since the GTA came about (I'll certainly not exclude some prior year TA owners in that), there are quite a few people that hold their car in very high regard shall we say... which is fine, being proud about what you own is ok. But, I've noticed from some the attitude that the more expensive model (GTA in this case) is somehow inherently superior to the 'lesser' base Firebird models because of the options on the car and stickers glued to the fenders... and far be it from me to claim to be innocent of that charge. That may not have been the intent of the post from blackphoenix above but I can understand where campin was coming from. GTA owners arent the only ones either, I've seen it with GTO/Tempest/LeMans owners, and in the brand F area I've seen it with Shelby/GT/base owners as well. Some of it is pride, and some is flat out arrogance. Hard to tell what if anything on the internet, typed words are totally emotionless unless someone throws a dead ringer in like

 

Actually an interesting notation is the Emblem on the BASE firebird from 1986 - 1992 is actually on the inside to where it would not wear off.. The 91-92 GTA/Trans Am tail lights were Silkscreen painted on the outside and very few originals still exist with the lettering intact. Most people replace them with Vinyl decals. The 85-90 TA, GTA, S/E type had the seperate emblem as shown above...

John

 

the package your talking about is called a w62 or sumthin to that effect(letters close to ws6 but way diff package)


on 91/92 firebirds(not trans ams)

there "is" such a thing

 

There's a link above, its W68.

 

I do recall reading in a Buyers Guide back in the day that noted the Firebird could be optioned out for 1991 with the W68 package to look like a GTA at a much lower price.... by this time the GTA was getting pretty "heady" on the window sticker. The base $$$ was right around the $25-26K mark.

Those rims you have are the 15-inch N90 gold cross-lace rims intro'ed for '91 first on the ASC base Firebird convertibles released for production in December of '90.... getting those wheels on a W68-equipped Firebird coupe required the B5Z Special Edition option that was released for production on January 10, 1991. This Special Edition package also led the car to originally be equipped with gold Firebird emblems and nameplates as well.... hence the "GTA-like" appearance.

About madmax's comments above.... I feel sorry that he has that POV. While there is a lot of "truth" in blackphoenix's post, he could have been a bit more tactful about how he posted it. Still, I dare say there are Camaro owners who have the same "forgetfulness" about their Z28s that he claims we GTA owners suffer from as well.

 

I know that those pesky Formula 350 Convertible owners think that they are "holyer than thou" ...

Joking aside, In reality there are groups that I have seen on the boards with particular models that tend to be more freakish than others, and it tends to lean towards people who have special performance packages like 1LE, G92 etc. Usually when they discover that they are not the only one in the world with the combination they cool off. For example, the G92 people cool off when they finally realize that virtually all GTA's & Formulas came with the performance gear package when equiped with the 350 or LB9/M5... Others Still don't get it but thats ok I guess most of us are proud of our cars on one level or another.

"Pride leads to the Dark side young Skywalker"

John

 

Absolutely. Its far from a brand or model specific thing. Some people really dont care, and some its like you're consorting with the enemy.

 

So if I get what everyone is saying, I've got a 305 TBI W68 with the B5Z Special Edition package. Thus, it becomes a GTA look-alike from the factory, without any of the performance to back it up.

So now can I claim that my 305 TBI W68 B5Z is ultra rare and thus I'm better than everyone else? lol

 

Unfortunately the W68 package was really common in 1991 & 1992, Pontiac made a push for the package and it was the only way to get a Firebird Convertible. I suspect they did not anticipate a lot of sales and in order to increase the number of parts made to decrease the price per part they made the push.

If you did NOT have the W68 Package that would actually make your car more uncommon as they did not make many outside the Formula which was NA with W68.

As for the B5Z not really sure how that applies, I do know it is a "Sales, Extra Appearance" But not really sure what it entailed.

John

 

I know, I was just joking around. As I said, the main purpose of this thread was to try and figure out what exactly came with my car, and what has been added through the years. This has given me a much better idea of that, and fortunately it looks like I got the car in a lot closer to stock trim than I thought. Thanks to all who helped point out the packages and options.

 

Hello to all. It appears I have been getting some HEAT for my ignorant one sided opinion of my reply. In the last 9 years I have owned 9 3rd Gen's. I have come to realize the GTA is the Ultimate 3rd gen. For those of you who have not been priviliged enough to own one or drive one - you are S*** out of luck. I have had every kind of 3rd Gen you can get (excluding 90's models) with every motor option and every trim. Not all my 3rd Gens are even listed. It is from personal experience & as being a true Trans Am Enthusiast that I have found GTA's to be the Ultimate driving machine. Despite my love & passion there are still many things I am not aware of & unfamilair with because there were so many options for these cars. As I noted in my reply that he may have a special feature package I was not aware of, it was just the baseline. We all do love our cars & that is wonderful. I was not trying to offend anybody with my reply, perhaps I came off wrong. Sorry to all who took offense. I too was all about Firebird's. Regardless of what it had, if the price was right & the car was nice I bought it. Thus the reason why I owned the 9. Since owning my GTA I have realized all the other cars did not even compare. Until you all can personally relate to me, you just won't understand, The only 2 that were partially comparible were the 87 305HO, 89 Formula, & 86 Trans Am, even still having those cars I always wanted more. The GTA fianlly filled my desires & cravings that some of you may still have driving your baselines. As I know when I pull up to the line with you, you do not stand a chance. You will bumming as not only my car took yours but you got beat by a GIRL!!!! HE is a SHE!!!!!! Have a great weekend EVERYBODY!!!! God Bless. Shenna

 

There's no argument here that your GTA will drop my TBI off the line. And noone here has an argument that the GTA wasn't a great car from the factory. And if you are comparing factory car to factory car, the GTA is top of the line.

But our cars are 17-26 years old. At this point now, what it was matters very little from a performance standpoint compared to what it is. The GTA is simply a better tuned and outfitted factory setup. There are many people here whose cars are not GTA's, but would stomp you because of what they have done to the car. The motor underhood a GTA doesn't stand a chance compared to the 350 and 383 builds you see people doing on a regular basis. And now 20 years later, there are suspension upgrades that would destroy the GTA in handling.

My daily driver is a 2004 Lancer. It is a totally different car than the Lancer Evolution. I could to whatever I want to that car, but it'd always get crushed by the Evo because they are built on different frames, with the Evo's being far superior to the budget Lancer. (This is just an example, I'm not advocating or hating on lancers) Your GTA is nothing more than a factory package. Its a far superior package to what my car came with, but its not a different car. Pull the motors and the other stuff and you expose the same frame.

As I slowly rebuild this car, it is my goal to make it perform much closer in line with a late 4th gen Trans Am, if not better. Come race me then when its really my car and I have a chance to outfit it with my "performance package"

 

John, according to the CDB, the B5Z Special Edition Package included the gold N90 15-inch wheels and Gold Graphics (name plates and bird decals). It was available on the base Firebird model S87M, with UPC W68.

Color availability was 10 - Bright White, 41 - Black, 45 - Dark Green Metallic, 81 - Bright Red, and 37 - Dark Aqua Metallic. Camel Pallex Cloth Seats, code 66C9, was also required. There was no additional charge for this B5Z package. Production was scheduled to start on February 4, 1991.

OK, maybe blackphoenix can't be a little more tactful in HER postings....

 

I bet your car won't take mine.

 

lets say a formula 350 vs a 350 gta....dont they feel the exact same thing??(since have a 350,700r4,and lets jus say the same *** end)...so how can the "gta" be the "ultamate driving machine"...when they the same exact powertrain options???

the only big diff in a gta is luxury options and gfx

right or wrong... btw NOT bashings gta's...i love them aswell

 

As far as I know, in 91-92 there were very little differences between the GTA and Trans Am. Being that mine is an L98 B2L car the only difference I can think of is the radio and seats. Both of which were changed in my car and would have been changed in the GTA as well. I can't stand the GTA seats and as far as I am concerned, factory stereos from that time period are worthless.

 

They are not exactly "GTA seats", although maybe they are incorrectly called that due to it being standard and more popular on the GTA, but those seats were in fact an option on the Trans AM. They are referred to as articulating buckets on the order sheets.

 

This thread is pretty funny....all this uproar about my "top of the line" is better than your "bottom of the line"

But the fact still remains that 3rd gen F-body's are a dime a dozen and aren't really worth a whole lot compared to some of the barrett jackson type vehicles. You can buy base model and GTA Firebirds all day long for a few grand easy. The market hasn't caught up with these cars yet.

Go hang around a mopar site, early Corvette C3's or 1st Generation camaro's and start talking about the rarity and value of some of those cars. You can't even buy a rusted out 1968-1972 Corvette or 1969 Camaro Z28 shell for the price of a really nice GTA....try doubling or trippling that.

So lets come down off our pedestals and enjoy our cars.....no matter what option it is.

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to start a trim level war at all. I just started this thread to see if people could help me figure out what things on my car came from the factory, and what did not. I just wanted to know how much had been modifed prior to me getting it. However, it seems more like I lit a spark in a gas tank, lol.

 

I have GTA too, I guess that makes my car the "ultimate driving machine" too. I can't wait to waste a few LS1s with my LB9 now that I know that. Gee I didn't realise that owning the "top of the range" made you into a ******....

 

To get back to the topic, campin1983.... in addition to one of the five colors listed, the bold type is what your car should have to be a B5Z car.

 

Yup, that describes what it looked like

 

Technically the Formula should outperform the GTA if equally equipped. In every aspect, cornering, Stright line, etc. Since the Formula is about 100# or more lighter as the GFX & seats all add up after a while...

There was an article around 1987 that did a comparison test between the GTA, Formula, IROC and I think Z28. They said the Formula was the most fun to drive... I assume because it handled the best out of the group. Article name "Family Feud"

John

 

I bought a white, base model 1991 firebird new when I was in college. It came with 15" gold crosslace wheels and gold bird emblems...I guess after rdg these posts GM made it try and look like the GTA...no clue about that at the time just thought white with gold wheels looked nice and loved it!!!! Thanks for this post it was very interesting. So, campin1983, if you want to know more just ask- can't remember everything but if asked I might recall. Recently bought a TA off ebay that is white with gold wheels- AM type and not as nice as the factory ones.

 

this is so funny like you guys stated, It's jus tlike pam anderson the bimbo can get a boob job,lip enhNCEMENT BUT GUESS WHAT? shes still the same canadian chick under all those "plastic effects" lol i bought a gta in 1997 wrecked got it fixed dorve it 3 years then let it sit for 8 years and i just took it out of storage replaced the motor. i dont think of it as a classic because of the options it came with. i enjoy and drive the (well at least i try, it overheats the damn thing) thing like a regular car, lol SHE needs to get off the high horse and realize some 4 door sedans can keep up with our cars or pull away.

 

As well as the b4c's rockin the roads too

 

LOL. I have owned three F-bodies. My first was a '85 T/A, my second was a '89 Iroc, and now I have a '87 GTA. I honestly cannot tell the difference between the way they drive (unless my memory has gotten really bad). They all drive like a limp noodle.

 

All except the GTA, right? Remember, it is the ULTIMATE driving machine

 

I may have missed something while skimming through this topic but i dont think anyone has mentioned that the 91-92 ta's and gtas didnt have center sections. the tail lights were a two piece design for 91 and 92 only.

campin1983 check out the yellow firebird on this link to see what im talking about.
https://www.thirdgen.org/pictures-1992-pontiac-firebird

 

Well,
To start with, The ultimate GTA would be like my car.
Really though, just joking around.
I love all Firebirds.
About your car, not all W68s got the gold wheels and gold emblems.
Most got the regular Hi-Tech Turbos in silver, and silver emblems.
Your car is known as the Special Edition version, which doesn't say Special Edition anywhere.
I would think that your car (The Special Edition version of the W68) would be more in tune with the GTA than the regular W68 car.
I never heard of it being introduced to sell/get rid of the extra parts.
They started in 1989, and all had a V-6 engine.
Starting in 1991, you could get the 305 TBI engine.
Most got the V-6 engines.
Nothing wrong with the 305 TBI at all, we own a 1991 with the W68, and we both love it.
Now, you can upgrade the car, with adding things like a wonderbar, WS6 sway bars (36mm front, 24mm rear), and heck, even adding the GTA gold 16 inch Diamond Spoke wheels (like we did to her car).
Then, it handles alot better!

Have fun with your car,

George

 

I found this today, just updating old threads I guess.

in 1991 B5Z was a gold emblem & wheel package on the Base Firebird, there was 1,285 made as per Compnine in 1991, and none in 1992

 

This was a good thread, despite all the bickering among ourselves. But it seems that tends to always happen in discussions about the lower trim levels. All 3rd gens are good cars and it's nice to learn production figures about the "lesser" cars, as that's what most of us own.

From what I remember seeing when the cars were still new, the W68 cars were everywhere. What was the percentage of cars sold with W68 compared to without?

 

W68 production
1990
Total - 20553
W62 - Aero Package - 11433 (includes Firebird, T/A & GTA)
W68 - 8926 (Firebird only)
Y83 - 1060 (Trans Am)
Y84 - 1447 (GTA)
W66 - 4834 (Formula)

So there was 13,212 Firebirds in 1990 (Does not include Formulas)
Of those, 8926 had the W68

1991
47,612 (Total Firebirds reported by Compnine)
W68 - 27706
W66 - 5464
Y83 - 3313
Y84 - 2869

THerefore there was 35,966 Base Firebirds reported (Does not include Formulas)
of those 27706 had the W68
Keep in mind that all of the convertibles also had the W68, which are NOT included in these numbers.

1992
VAN - 22,334 Coupes reported by Compnine
W68 - 17,267
W66 - 883
Y83 - 702
Y84 - 257

20,601 Total number of Base Firebirds (as per compnine) Does not include Convertibles (Does not include Formulas)
17,607 W68 Cars.

So the non W68 cars are very unusual indeed.

John