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READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Old 09-25-2008, 10:38 AM
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READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

The purpose of this thread is to help people with third gens understand what makes a car "desirable" and what makes a car "Rare" The two are not synonymous with each other.

Two cars, Both were made in 1989, one is "Rare" the other is more common. The first car is a Camaro with an AM radio, there was only 49 of them with the option in 1989. The second "More common" car is the Turbo Trans Am (TTA) they made 1555 of them. If we think of "Rare" as being valuable and the more rare something is makes it more valuable ultimately we are very mistaken... The 1989 TTA is worth WAY more than the Camaro with the AM radio, There should NOT be an argument about it, THIS is the way things are. To assume otherwise is futile and a waste of bandwidth IMHO.

This leads us into what determines a car to be "DESIRABLE"... HISTORY tells us that there are a few factors that determines desirability. For the most part PERFORMANCE plays a huge role in determining desirability. Very few cars, that do not perform have significant value in today's marketplace, I cannot think of many except for a Silver Ghost Rolls Royce. The second thing that makes a car desirable is Style or appearance. Convertibles are almost always more valuable than equally equipped hard tops, Other than the 63-67 Corvette, I do not know of another single exception to this rule. So an otherwise identical Z28 Convertible with a LB9/M5 will be worth MORE than a Z28 Hard top with an LB9/M5 with similar options and the same condition, EVERY TIME. Take ONE of the above factors, such as "Performance" or "Style" and THEN combine it with "Rare" or at least unusual then you have something worth while. IF you Have BOTH then you REALLY have something that hits the mark.

In the end, you have to look at a car from a buyers point of view, its basically Supply & Demand. MOST people want a performance car, at least if your reading this I am going to assume so. Most people would rather have a 350 IROC-Z than a 6 Cyl RS, I am not trying to hurt feelings, its the honest truth and the way things are. Lets look at the facts 1) More people want Performance 2) There are more V6 Camaros than there are 350 Camaros available. Therefore there is a smaller supply and a larger demand for a 350 IROC-Z making them more valuable. In short, if you had two Identical cars sitting next to each other both were the same price, both were the same condition, the only difference is some option, it does not matter what the option is, the car that has the better options should sell first...

Moreover fuel mileage has NOTHING to do with desirability insofar as a collector is concerned as car collectors do not drive the cars every day... If fuel mileage is SUCH a big issue then why are new Cobalts that get 30+ Mpg worth only $15,000 new but a Cadillac that gets 25 Mpg are worth $40,000 new... Fuel milage is NOT a factor, and it really should not be discussed when discussing desirability. My suggestion is not to get hung up on this as even the new Camaros are not going to be significantly more fuel efficient than a 3rd Gen... Our government has made sure of that. In reality a V6 was not greatly better than a 350, I got 26 Mpg highway in my Formula 350 convertible @ 65 -70 Mph

NOW, I created a list a while ago, this is the second version of the same list that some of you may have seen, I did add a few things, but nothing significant, and its a baseline to what I have believe to be cars that are worth collecting. Some models are not included, for example I did not include all of the LB9/M5 cars BECAUSE the information is NOT AVAILABLE. The following is a list of cars that I could easily decipher and quantify into a meaningful list that would shed some light on the question "Is my car RARE and is my car DESIRABLE" If you own a car that is on the list it has better chance to YES for both of those questions. If your car is NOT on the list it does not mean the car is not desirable or rare, it just means that its not on the list because I do not have access to the information.

Some of the numbers overlap, for example there were 26 L69 Trans Am's in 1986, of those 22 were used in the Players Series... I made mention where I remembered.

If you find errors, let me know and I will fix them.

1 (1992) SLP Firehawk Convertible - SLP
1 (1992) SLP Firehawk T-top - SLP
1 (1989) PAS TTA Test Car with Hardtop & Leather Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) PAS/ASC TTA Convertible Test car, Cloth Interior - TTA Website
1 (1989) ASC/PAS TTA's Convertible, Leather Interior - ASC - TTA Website
1 (1987) VHO Formula - Silver - Dealer Modified - Awaiting hard confirmation
1 (1989) VHO Formula - Dealer Modified - Confirmed find
1 (1989) GTA Notchback
1 (1988) Trans Am 1LE
2 (1988) VHO Formulas - Dealer Modified - Magazine Article states 3, but rumor has 1 1987 and 2 1988s.
3 (1989) PAS TTA's Test Cars with T-Top & Cloth Interior ( A fourth was made into a convertible See above) - TTA Website
4 (1986) Trans Am L69/M5 (NON Players) - Mark Players Series
4 (1988) Camaro 1LE - White Book
4 (1990) Trans Am 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
4 (1992) Trans Am 1LE (NON R7U) - Mark Players Series
5 (1992) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
6 (1991) SLP Firehawks (Hard Top) - SLP
9 (1991) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
9 (1989) Trans Am/GTA LB9 Convertibles
13 (1986-1991) Tojan Convertibles
14 (1990) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
15 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Cloth Interior - TTA Website
------------------107 cars above this line .0048%--------------
16 (1989) Formula LB9 Convertibles
17 (1992) SLP Firehawk (Hard Top)
17 (1989) Players Trans Am R7U - Mark Players Series
20 (1988) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1986) Players Trans Am A4Q - Mark Players Series
22 (1987) Players Trans Am A4U - Mark Players Series
22 (1992) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
24 (1989) PAS TTA's Hardtop & Leather Interior
26 (1989) Trans Am 1LE
28 (1990) IROC L98/A4 1LE
30 (1992) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
31 (1988) Trans Am LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle (includes Players cars)
32 (1991) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
34 (1990) IROC LB9/M5 1LE - Compnine.com (confirmed)
37 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 Hardtop
39 (1989) PAS Hard Top TTA's - TTA Website
------------------522 cars above this line .0216%--------------
43 (1989) ASC Formula 350 convertibles - Research
44 (1991) Formula 350 W/CC1 (T-tops) - compnine (might be short 5%)
46 (1991) Formula 1LE (May include some Firehawks)
46 (1991) Base Firebird Convertibles W/M5 Trans - Red Book
53 (1987) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Series
53 (1991) Trans Am 1LE (does not include R7U)
63 (1986) Players Camaro A4Q - Mark Players Series
65 (1989) Players Camaro R7U - Mark Players Series
63 (1990) Trans Am W/L98
71 (1988) Players Camaro A4U - Mark Players Series
74 (1986) Camaro L69 (11 were Non Players Cars)
------------------ cars above this line .044%--------------
86 (1992) 1LE Camaros (Non B4C non R7U)
104 (1988) ASC Firebird Convertibles (Trans Am, GTA, Formula, Firebird) - ASC
104 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/M5
111 (1989) Camaro 1LE
116 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5 (CFI)/A4 - Hardtop
123 (1990) GTA LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle
123 (1986-1991) Tojan Hard Tops (includes T-top cars)
143 (1989) ASC L98 Trans Am & L98 GTA Convertibles
174 (1987) ASC Pontiac Firebirds (Trans Am, GTA, Formula, Firebird) - ASC
179 (1992) Trans Ams W/L98
187 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Cloth Interior - TTA Club
195 (1991) Camaro 1LE/L98 (includes B4C cars)
205 (1985) Camaro IROC LB9/A4/G92
209 (1992) Formula 350 W/CC1 (T-tops) - compnine (might be short 5%)
263 (1987) Camaro RS, SC & LT Convertibles - White Book
282 (1992) GTA W/L98
283 (1991) Camaro 1LE/LB9/M5 (includes B4C cars)
295 (1990) Camaro IROC LB9/M5/G92
353 (1990) Formula LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle
380 (1992) Formula 350s
406 (1988) Trans Am W/L98
406 (1991) Trans Am W/L98
451 (1991) Trans Am Convertible LB9/A4
------------------ cars above this line .230%--------------
483 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LG4/M5 - T-tops
523 (1989) GTA LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle
502 (1985) 1C5 "California IROC" - TGO
571 (1992) Z03 Heritage Camaro Z28/L98 (all had G92) (571 not complete number)
589 (1992) Camaro B4C all with 1LE
592 (1991) Camaro B4C (note not all B4C cars were 1LE cars in 1991, 1LE equipped B4C cars will have more value)
607 (1992) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
613 (1989) Trans Ams W/L98
662 (1983) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
718 (1988) GTA Notchbacks L98/A4, LB9/A4 & LB9/M5
729 (1990) RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------ cars above this line .455%--------------
733 (1991) Camaro Z28 LB9/M5/G92
744 (1987) IROC-Z Convertibles
777 (1992) Trans Am Convertible A4 & M5 - PHS
838 (1990) Formula 350s
904 (1991) Base Firebird Vert W/A4 Trans
------------------------------------
1,002 (1990) GTAs W/L98
1,037 (1988) GTA LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle
1,047 (1988) Formula LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle
1,126 (1989) Formula LB9/MM5 w/ Perf Axle
1,250 (1991) Formula 350s
1,254 (1992) Z28 Convertibles LB9 A4 & M5
1,265 (1992) Firebird Convertibles
1,294 (1990) IROC-Z Convertibles
1,321 (1989) PAS TTA T-Top & Leather Interior
1,321 (1991) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
1,321 (1984) Trans Am Recaro (Y84) L69
1,665 (1985) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O.
1,500 (1984) Trans Am 15th Anniversary
1834 (1991) GTA W/L98
1,864 (1983) Daytona Trans Am LU5(CFI)/A4 - T-tops
1,859 (1988) SC or RS Camaro Convertibles
------------------------------------
2,384 (1987) Formula 350's
2,497 (1985) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
2,415 (1990) IROC-Z Hard Top L98
2,562 (1992) RS Camaro Convertibles
2,613 (1988) Formula W/L98
------------------------------------
3,038 (1992) Z28 Hard Top L98
3,203 (1991) Z28 Convertible LB9 A4 & M5
3,223 (1983) Z28 L69 5.0 H.O.
3,245 (1989) RS Camaro Convertibles
3,280 (1987) LB9/M5 GTA's
3,761 (1988) IROC-Z Convertibles
3,940 (1989) IROC-Z Convertibles
------------------------------------
4,875 (1989) Formula 350s
5,329 (1991) RS Camaro Convertibles
6,080 (1991) Z28 Hard Top L98
6,360 (1982) Camaro Z28/Z50 INDY Edition
6,554 (1989) (US Sales) GTA W/L98
6,606+ (1992) Camaro Z03
6,913 (1988) (US Sales) Hard Top GTA W/L98
7,051 (1984) Trans Am L69 5.0 H.O. W/M5
7,553 (1989) GTAs W/L98
7,818 (1987) (US Sales) Hard Top Trans Am & GTA L98
7,779 (1988) GTAs W/L98
9,206 (1983) Trans Am LU5 (includes some of the Daytona Trans Am's above)
--------------------------------
12,105 (1987) IROC-Z L98
12,116 (1988) IROC-Z L98
12,370 (1989) IROC-Z L98
13,037 (1982) Trans Am LU5
16,869 (1985) Trans Am LB9
18,037 (1984) Trans Am L69/A4 (includes some of the Anniversary & Recaro T/A's above)
19,847 (1983) Camaro Z28 LU5
--------------------------------
21,176 (1986) Trans Am LB9
24,673 (1982) Camaro Z28 LU5
32,836 (1985) Camaro Z28 LB9
46,374 (1986) Camaro Z28 LB9
52,457 (1984) Camaro Z28 L69 (Auto & Manual)

To bring this all into perspective there were 1,517,623 Camaro's and 817,444 Firebirds made between 1982 & 1992. OR if you add them together 2,334,067 3rd Gen F-bodies...

Changes Log:
10-29-08 - Corrected Trans Am Convertible figures for 1991 & 1992
1-19-09 - Added 1C5 "California IROC" to list. 502 number has not been verified.
1-28-09 - Updated 1990 IROC 1LE production, broke out 28 from 62 total
2-17-09 - Changed 1989 Trans Am/L98 Vert figure to 141
2-18-09 - Corrected LU5 Camaros
10-9-09 - Added Knudsen Tojan production... for kicks.
11-24-09 - updated 1991 Camaro 1LE figures from the 1LE Registry, 195 1LE/L98's and 283 1LE/LB9/MM5
1-22-10 - Added 1984 Recaro Production figures
1-24-11 - Added 3 - 1988 VHO Formulas and 1 - 1989 VHO Formula
4-21-11 - Added some sources really quick as a reference
10-31-11 - Updated VHO Formula information to 1 1987, 2 1988 and 1 1989
2-25-15 - Removed Notchback TTA as PAS does not recognize there was one ever made. Made into Notchback TTA.
4-20-15 - Added 91 & 92 Formula 350 W/CC1 T-tops
2-01-19 - Updated numbers for Formula, GTA & Trans Am (L98 & LB9/MM5/ Perf Axle) 1988-1992
John

Last edited by okfoz; 02-01-2019 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Updated some of the listings, included 90-92 LB9/M5/G92 cars, SC/RS verts etc, broke apart out 91-92 Firehawks
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:47 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by TOM-1LE View Post
Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can answer a question--did the production total of 705 1LE Camaros built in 1992 include the 589 B4C cars, which also had the 1LE code that year? Meaning only 116 cars were built in 1992 as strictly 1LE's, without B4C?

Or are they separate totals, meaning that a grand total of 1,294 Camaros in 1992 had the 1LE code (705 1LE + 589 1LE/B4C)? I've tried to research this question in the past but have never seen a definitive answer.
No, the 705 number includes the 589 B4Cs. I believe they should be separated into 1LE and B4C.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:48 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

How about the 550 Trans Am convertibles in '91 and 663 in '92? LB9 aside, I'd say that should make the list, no?

And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that an Autoform vert (also not on the list ... hard to get numbers for that I'm sure) will pull more cash than an '89 Formy 350 hardtop in the same condition.

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Old 09-29-2008, 12:34 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Does anyone have any hard numbers on the 1983 T/A Daytona & 1984 Trans Am 15th Anniversary cars?

I have 2500 & 1500... seems too generic but could be...

As for the block heater, I do not think it would add a ton of value to any car unless it was in a colder climate... it was $20 in 1992

Last edited by okfoz; 09-29-2008 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:25 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

The following is from:
1983 DT500 Production Breakdown


2,500 Daytona 500 Editions were made.

Out of the 2,500 there were 2,347 with T-tops.

Leaving 153 hardtop cars made.

1,980 had the LU5 Cross-Fire Injection engine and automatic transmission.

520 had the LG4 carburated engine and 5-speed manual transmission.

483 had T-tops/LG4

37 had a hardtop/LG4

1,864 had T-tops/LU5

116 had a hardtop/LU5
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:19 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Okay....so then can we add the G92/5 speed cars to the list. I'm not sure of previous years, but I'm pretty sure there were only about 600 built in 92. Here's how I've come to this conclusion....

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_C...oduced_in_1992
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:05 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by okfoz View Post
If you find errors, let me know and I will fix them.
First off - Great list !!


Insignificant technicallity

1 (1989) PAS TTA Test Car with Hardtop & Leather Interior

The Burgandy fitment test car is acutally an 1988 GTA converted to a TTA
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Old 10-25-2008, 06:33 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Ive got an original 50k mi ircoc 5.7l with power drivers seat and leather interior. Is it possible to find out how many 5.7l irocs were made with leather in 88'?
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Old 10-25-2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

I have some videos on Metacafe with my 1990 G92 optioned 5-speed IROC racing a 1989 5.0 Mustang GT... I raced a few 5.0 Mustangs, and they can't understand why the Camaro out-runs them...LOL!!!!!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/181564...reet_shootout/

Here is the link to the video if interested, its only a couple of minutes. We raced a couple times.
I also have footage of my IROC beating an LT1 powered automatic Z28 as well if anyone wants to see that let me know and I'll post a link for you.

I had a 1988 IROC convertible with the G92 and GU5 options that I sold last year pretty cheap because I needed some fast cash, and I still can't sleep at night over that one. The guy even paid a shipping company almost $1,000 to send it across country to Arizona...LOL!!!! I'm a big fat dummy head.... should have kept it. But I'm looking for another....good luck, right.

I'm actually a fan of the 5.0 Mustangs too... I guess growing up through the mid-late 80's I love the 3rd gen F-body and the Fox body 5.0 Mustangs pretty equal. Those Stangs are quick little bastards, but couldn't touch the 3rd gen's handling and braking ability. And coupled with a TPI G92 5-speed or L98 car, shocked many 5.0 GTs and LXs. Man, I miss the 1980s!!!!!!

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Old 10-26-2008, 02:37 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by thebirddd View Post
Ive got an original 50k mi ircoc 5.7l with power drivers seat and leather interior. Is it possible to find out how many 5.7l irocs were made with leather in 88'?
Nope... The numbers are about as good as we can get, fortunately there are some cases where we are able to break out a series of options via knowing certain things about the cars... Unfortunately to answer your question and Leather... no current way to do that... Call Chevrolet they might be able to actually tell you the number like your car...

John
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:59 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

This is an amazing list. Thanks for all your effort in compiling the data.

Since I own a '91 TA Convertible, my attention was drawn to that line on the list. You show 550 produced. When I did some research on this a few years back, I got two letters quoting different numbers. In 1992, Pontiac Customer Relations said 555 and, in 2003, Jim Mattison from Pontiac Historical Services said 637. Jim thought the difference was attributable to a small number built in Canada.

Just thought I would pass this along. The only other number that was quoted to me was that only 120 of the '91 TA Verts had a 5 speed like mine. Just wanted to let you know us "hobbyists" appreciate your efforts. Most of this information no longer exists in a format we can use and share.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:14 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

I got the PHS number and I corrected it on the list, thank you.

Personally I think a more likely problem is the fact that 1991 & 1990 for that matter are often intertwined. Some sources included Sept 1989 - sept 1990 for 1990 and sept 1990 - Sept 1991 for 1991. Since the production started in Feb of 1990 for the 1991 model year many 1991 cars end up on the 1990 production figures. Typically the information that is gathered that was was originally for Dealers so they knew what cars to stock.

I suspect that is where the problem comes in... Pontiac did not make any Firebirds in Canada until the 1993 model year, when they moved the 4th Gens up there. What Jim may have been referring to is that exported cars are not always included in production figures either... Again this goes back to Dealer information...

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Old 10-29-2008, 03:44 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Great video of the G92 5 speed kicking butt on a 'Stang... yeah, those fords rev pretty good, but the camaro had a bad rap back in the day 'cause the average Joe Camaro guy was driving an automatic five liter with the transmission permantly locked in "D". I'm sure a well tuned G92 5 speed could hold it's ground all day long against a mustang. The one thing the mustang had over the camaro was you could buy them cheap! And then throw a few more after market dollars at them and you had a real street machine. The camaro aftermarket took awhile to catch on.... But how can you even argue over which is the better LOOKING car!? And the f-bodys will run circles around the fords all day long when it comes to handling and braking...
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Old 11-01-2008, 12:10 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

3,940 (1990) IROC-Z Convertibles should read 1989.
and 729 (1991) RS Camaro Convertibles should read 1990.
I think???
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:00 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Thanks I corrected it...

John
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:47 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Ok i have a 83 Camaro Z-28 LU5 crossfire with functional hood. 305 cid. and 700r4. I didn't see it on the list but i would love to know the value or the desirability of this car.
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:20 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Its part of thoe notables 9,206 (1983)

John
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:26 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Hello everyone, I am new to the third gen camaro's. My friend was going to send his 1985 IROC-Z off to pick a part. I noticed it had 4 wheel disc brakes so I thought if nothing else I could used the rear end for a 1955 chevy big window project so I gave him what pick a part was going to give him($200.00). While researching the rpo's I found it has The G80 posi with GU6 3:42 performance axle. I read that there were only 205 1985 IROC-Z's made with the G92 performance pkg. Does anyone know this to be correct? If it is correct I think it should be on the list and do you think it will become desirable in the future? If so I will find another rear end for my project. Thanks, and this looks like a great website.
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:36 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Hi Folks
I tried to post this but no answered - my only question who do I call, email, or write to confirm these numbers???? Maybe this is the right place to get answer


According to this guy only 355 cars were built like this. "On Option L98, This is a L98 5.7L/350ci Corvette Engine. There were 3038 made, only 355 installed in a Z28 w/ Heritage pkg. This gives it the added rarity above the typical 5.0 Z28 where tens of thousand more were made and are much more common
Thanks
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Old 11-18-2008, 09:20 AM
  #20  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Bill,
Is there some link to what your referring to?

As for Heritage cars. THere were 8197 made according to the White Book 355 sounds kind of like a random number he pulled from his butt...

What he actually assumes is that all things being equal that if you divide 3038 by 70007 you get about .04339 then you multiply the 4.3% by the 8197 and you get the magic number of 355.7142

He has no clue what he is doing...

John

Last edited by okfoz; 11-18-2008 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 11-18-2008, 10:04 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Basically, if you have to do multiplying and fractions or any math at all to prove a car is rare, it isn't. Either buy or don't buy the car based on it's own merits, not some convoluted conclusion about it being an uncommon combination when you take every RPO code into account.
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Old 11-18-2008, 06:31 PM
  #22  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Hi John
thanks - I like your math, that is actually pretty good guess on how he came up with the number. I have owned the since it is new - I am not interested in selling it or save it because I think it is worth money, I just like the car and want information about it.
Bill

Last edited by 92 Z-28 Camaro; 11-19-2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-19-2008, 03:39 AM
  #23  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Hi there,

Does anyone know if there are numbers for export versions? I have Japanese spec 1991 Z28 Vert and need to know how many were produced?

By Japanese spec, I mean I have RPOs for Japanese manuals (which I have) and Japanese radio codes and lighting.

Can anyone help out with finding if there are production or export numbers for this?

Thanks

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Old 11-24-2008, 09:11 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

ok i dont know about my car it is a 1988 camaro 5.7 iroc-z with leather/ power seat power mirrors, power locks, power windows/ power hatch/ t-top/ factory bose/4 wheel disc/ posi rear end i tried calling chevy but they were no help and i was just wondering if some could help me determine if it is rare or not

Last edited by iloverocs; 11-24-2008 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:28 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by iloverocs View Post
ok i dont know about my car it is a 1988 camaro 5.7 iroc-z with leather/ power seat power mirrors, power locks, power windows/ power hatch/ t-top/ factory bose/4 wheel disc/ posi rear end i tried calling chevy but they were no help and i was just wondering if some could help me determine if it is rare or not
It is definitely a heavily optioned car but not particularly rare.
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:32 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

thank you for your time and an answer happy hoildays
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:01 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by LFN AT U View Post
It is definitely a heavily optioned car but not particularly rare.
Hi
Just curious ќ I did not think you could get a 5.7 with T-Top ќ is that true or false?
Thanks
Bill
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:56 AM
  #28  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Yes you could get the 350 with T-tops there are a TON of them out there. You could even get a Convertible with the 350 .... kinda... There were about 200 Convertibles with the 350 created from 1987 - 1989, most of them being Firebirds in 1989, I own one.

As for T-tops and a 350, From 1987 - 1989 they were quite common, more in 1987 and 1989 for the Camaros, not so many in 1988. THey were also common on the Formula's, T/A's and GTA's in 1989. However they are uncommon for the 1987 & 1988 Firebird line, you could only get one AFAIK is to order one in Canada. There were none of them known in 1990 MY, and only the Formula 350 was available in 1991 & 1992 with the combo. After 1989 no Z28 or IROC was available with T-tops and the 350 were made...

John
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Old 12-06-2008, 04:08 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Seems as I own one of the 7,051 1984 L69/5speed cars. However, because I assume most of those were used at the track it would be interesting to know how many of those cars had T-tops. Unfortunately I doubt we will ever find out. Anyway great list. Wonder if it would be possible to get at least one of each..............
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:01 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by okfoz View Post
104 (1988) ASC Firebird Convertibles
Might that be 1989? You once quoted me the number of '89 'verts. I don't remember what the number was, but that sounds familiar. But whatever it is, I'm thinking there were few enough to have made the list, yet I didn't see them. Perhaps I simply overlooked them?
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:46 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

For 1989 ASC reported 330 Firebird Verts.... The Dealer order logs have 324...

104 for 1988 and 173 for 1987
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Old 12-08-2008, 03:19 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

What a great list. Thanks for putting it together. it looks like it took a lot of hard work. The list has the 21,176 1986 Trans am LB9 how about the 18,680 IROC-Z with the LB9. One more, the 1985 IROC-Z with the G92 performance axle should be on the list with 205 made
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Old 12-08-2008, 04:28 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by mr396 View Post
What a great list. Thanks for putting it together. it looks like it took a lot of hard work.
Thanks
Originally Posted by mr396 View Post
The list has the 21,176 1986 Trans am LB9 how about the 18,680 IROC-Z with the LB9.
The 1986 Z28/IROC with the LB9 according to the White book is 46,374 What year are you talking about?

Originally Posted by mr396 View Post
One more, the 1985 IROC-Z with the G92 performance axle should be on the list with 205 made
I do not have access to that information... White book or otherwise, if you can verify the information then sure... Unfortunately there would have been definitely 2 engines if not all three V8's that could have potentially had the G92. The list I try to break out the Engine and car production, the G92 without the engine creates some duplication, which I have attempted to avoid, unsuccessfully in places but an attempt nonetheless.

Chances are the "G92" was part of a package for example Most of the LB9's in 1985 got the 3.27 gear, there was no other axle option off the top of my head. So they may not have had the G92 RPO listed as the "Performance Gear" would have been standard anyways. My 1987 Formula LB9/M5 is that way... It has the G92 options BUT it is not listed on the SPID sheet. IIRC the L98 on the IROC in 1987 is also listed that way... Has the G92 options BUT it is Not listed on the SPID sheet... Scott would have to verify for me.

John
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:24 PM
  #34  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Sorry,I was talking about the 1985 Iroc-Z LB9 with 18,680 made. here are some numbers for the 1985 camaro. They come from Len Williamson, he has taken every production option by code from Chevrolet since 1953 and compiled two huge note books full of production numbers thru 1990. his reference work is used by the Chevrolet customer service. The 3.23 was the standard ratio for the IROC-Z LB9 with the 3.42 option G92. In 1985 the G92 performance axle was only available on the IROC-Z LB9 automatic.
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Old 12-09-2008, 07:52 AM
  #35  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Where could I get the book, it looks interesting...

I did not see a reference to the LB9 in that pic.

Thanks

I was looking at your avatar and you state that you have a 2.2 L Turbo, and a 1987 Indy Pace Car Convertible... What is the story behind that, sounds like an interesting car.
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:15 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

It comes from the United states camaro clubs march-april issue of the camaro corral 1992 special issue 3rd generation camaro's. I have an extra issue if you want to pm me your address i'll send you a copy. The 85 IROC LB9 number is the 21,177 IROC'S minus the 2,497 L69 IROC's. The 87 indy pace car is one of 40 pace cars deliverd to so cal. in 1987. My father bought it new and when he passed away he left it to me. I just noticed you have two numbers for the 1982 Z/28 LU5, I think you ment 1983 Z/28 LU5 prod. 19,847.
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:35 PM
  #37  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

I've got an '83 LU5 Crossfire with posi rear, electric driver's seat, t-tops composite hood with functioning flaps. Probably not rare when it was made but I'm in England (so there's not too many here) but its still running and I've been watching eBay and good ones are not coming up regularly. It has been resprayed and has a leather interior (colour matched) and is now wearing American Racing rims. Mechanicaly, its original except for a 5.7 Goodwrench. Guys at House of Camaro told me that its very rare now, especially to be a good runner and with no rust. Things may not start out rare but they can become it.

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Old 12-11-2008, 07:23 PM
  #38  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Nice car...

Honestly it seems that there were several problems that caused people to pull the LU5 for a 4BBL. I have even read where there are conversion kits to install a TPI. It seems about half or more of the LU5 cars have been changed to something else... As that happens the value of those cars in nice shape like yours appears to be go up.

John
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:33 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by Goonv8 View Post
Things may not start out rare but they can become it.



I definitely agree with that statement, I've seen this too many times where people wished they kept cars they've had in the past that didn't seem to be valuable or rare but eventually were worth a fortune. Dad recalled seeing Superbirds just sitting in used car lots for three grand.

I am planning on taking my car to Hershey this year if it will make the run without problems. We will see how many of the early third gens show up for the fall meet.
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:47 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Post some pics for us in old blighty!
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:47 AM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

my title disagrees with this line here....
18,037 (1984) Trans Am L69/A4 (includes some of the Anniversary T/A's above)
my vin: 1G2A****233***
According to my decifer of vin...there are either 33,*** or 233,***.
I don't know why the extra # is there.
I have searched thoroughly about this and come to no conclusion.
but everything checks out up til the 233***.
any help obv appreciated.

Last edited by okfoz; 12-31-2008 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:12 AM
  #42  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by astrosurfer View Post
.
but everything checks out up til the 233678.
any help obv appreciated.
First off welcome to TGO. Nice to see another '84 being saved from the crusher. As you might see from my avatar I have a Grey 84 TA with silver striping. Originally it had an L69 and a 5 speed. But because the original engine blew up I swapped for an LG4 keeping all the original external L69 pieces. I do have a couple of words of advice and an answer to your confusion.

My first advice (you are a newer member who doesn't seem to post much so just a helpful hint) Don't post your whole VIN number on TGO. Its been stated that there have been problems with VIN numbers being posted on the site. Just a little helpful advice. I am sure JT will edit that if you don't.

Secondly the last six digits are a build sequence number. They have nothing to do with how many of a certain car was made. Don't forget there are ordinary Firebirds being built on the same line as Trans Ams as well as Camaros. I am sure others will be saying the same thing.

Good luck with that project hopefully you will have better luck than I did.

Last edited by L695speed; 12-30-2008 at 12:12 PM. Reason: for some reason I keep on thinking JL is JT I need to remember the T LOL.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:34 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

OK
Edited vin also...thanks for that tip...lol
Aye new here.
I will post alot coz I have many many Q's about my car.
Also thanks for clarifying the vin #'s too.
I was under the impression that was the actual production #.
You learn something new every day.

Thanks for all the info.
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Old 12-31-2008, 11:51 AM
  #44  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

L695Speed is close, but he did not completely explain it.

Pontiacs start with 200001 as their first car in a sequence, Chevrolet starts with 100001. The 2 indicates Pontiac, and the 1 indicates Chevy. In effect your car was the 33,***th Pontiac Firebird from that plant in 1984. In 1984 there were two Assembly plants making F-bodies. Van Nuys CA, and Norwood OH. BOTH plants started with number 00001. What is really strange is you could technically have two identical cars made in the same year, and have the same VIN sequence, same engine, trans, options etc, the difference being the norwood car would have an "N" and Van Nuys an "L" in the VIN.

John
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:43 PM
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

Originally Posted by okfoz View Post
L695Speed is close, but he did not completely explain it.

Pontiacs start with 200001 as their first car in a sequence, Chevrolet starts with 100001. The 2 indicates Pontiac, and the 1 indicates Chevy. In effect your car was the 33,***th Pontiac Firebird from that plant in 1984. In 1984 there were two Assembly plants making F-bodies. Van Nuys CA, and Norwood OH. BOTH plants started with number 00001. What is really strange is you could technically have two identical cars made in the same year, and have the same VIN sequence, same engine, trans, options etc, the difference being the norwood car would have an "N" and Van Nuys an "L" in the VIN.

John

Thanks for finishing the explanation John. I knew there was more to it but I didn't want to add to the confusion by going into detail. As I stated I knew there were folks who knew more than I did. I just addressed the number at the end and posting the whole VIN. Anyway I wasn't totally clear on it as well. Like some people say if you don't know enough just state what you know and mention that others might know more. LOL. This was new to me too now I need to look up what mine was from Norwood.
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:47 PM
  #46  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

What is even more interesting is some years, I think it was 1985 (without looking it up) they skipped a bunch of numbers, Chevy (Van Nuys Cars only) went from 100001 to 11????? and then 41???? to end at just over 500000, Pontiac did the same thing, they going from 22???? to 62???? up I am not exactly sure what the exact sequence number they changed the first number at, but they did, and it is not clear why.

John

Last edited by okfoz; 12-31-2008 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 12-31-2008, 04:01 PM
  #47  
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

how many 87 iroc-z z28 did they make? i have the L98 code so i think there was 12,105 of those but how many they make all together in 87?
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:10 AM
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Location: Doghouse ииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Posts: 13,715
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
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Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

52863 Z28's in 1987
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Old 01-17-2009, 12:02 PM
  #49  
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 821
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

I'm writing to ask why the 1985 IROC Z28 ,1C5 (California Special Promotional Package) is not listed with your rare Camaros? Also, does anyone have the true documented number of units produced? It must be rare, I've never seen another red T-top like the one I own! I've got all the documentation and paper work on the car. You can see the car and the spid codes at your history site under "What is the RPO code Z5V on my 1985 1C5 IROC? 1-12-2009" Any more information would be really appreciated. Thanks

Last edited by yo soy el warg; 01-17-2009 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 01-17-2009, 12:32 PM
  #50  
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Location: Buffalo, NY
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Car: 1984 Trans Am
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Axle/Gears: 10 bolt w/ 4.10 gears
Re: READ ME! Before asking "Is my car rare/Desirable?"

He did state rare and desirable... maybe the 1C5 isn't particularly desirable... I've never heard of it and I'm a 3rd gen junkie
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