85 T/A WS6

My WS6 has poly sway bar bushings. Shocks where gas pressurized and re-valved, this was a big plus. Control arm bushings are softer. Those are some of the small things as far as 85 WS6 was concerned. 12.7 : 1 ratio with more steering effort was another as mentioned.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, Douglas, that should have been N90. My typo mistake.

I was responding to Bill's comments where he stated that he should have WS6, simply because the car is a convertible, which is actually not correct. A convertible did not come with WS6 as standard. If the convertible happens to be a GTA or Formula, then WS6 would be present but not because the car is a convertible, but because WS6 was standard on GTAs and Formulas. Bill has a 1989 Formula, correct? Thus he should have WS6.

In addition, I went further by stating Convertibles and WS6 don't go hand-in-hand (atleast not standard) by the fact there are plenty of 1991/1992 Trans AM Convertibles that didn't have WS6.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

Ah, ok, that explains that.

After looking back I understood what you meant better. I think we are in complete agreement, I just wanted to clarify the GTA/Formy in 91/92 thing since your example was 91/92s. It's funny that you gave that as an example, the one 91/92 Trans Am Vert I've seen closely in person did not have the WS6 suspension, which threw me off as it as iirc it had WS6 center caps and PW7 rims, but the narrow tires.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

That's an N96 16x8" wheel. First introduced in 84 on the 15th anniversary Trans Am, was also the standard wheel for the WS6 Trans Am in 85-86. In 87 the Formula used the same wheel. N90 was the 15x7" wheel.

Technically on paper Pontiac didn't offer a convertible Firebird until mid year 1991. They even released a mid year mini brochure with info on the convertible, with a pic of a bright red Trans Am convertible. Pre-91.5 convertibles fall into a bit of a gray area since they weren't technically GM approved the equipment can vary. 91.5-92 Firebird convertibles were either base Firebirds or Trans Ams but the GTA and Formula weren't offered. Hopefully that all makes sense.

JT

iTrader: (1)

I do not disagree with that. Perhaps (based on Douglas' response above to my comments) my initial wording may have lead some to believe that I might have been implying there was such offered (1991-92 Convertible GTAs or Formulas) when that wasn't the case. As an owner of a '92 T/A Convertible 305/5-speed (without WS6), I have come to learn a lot of (hopefully correct) information about these vehicles through knowledgeable people such as yourself and many others on this forum and this very thread.

The original poster has several (appearance-wise) marks in favor of his TA being WS6 equipped. Hopefully, with all the information here, he can figure out if it really is a WS6 as or not.

okfoz

You could look at it like that... I just do not think it is so simple. The GTA came standard with the WS6, so in a sense it was a part of the GTA package, but it was available outside the Y84, it was also available with the W66 "Formula". Then it was a separate option on the Trans Am... you say "Kind of" so I will give it to you... I digress...

okfoz

Drew, you are correct, The convertible was technically made available mid year for the 1991 MY. The 1987 - 1989 ASC Firebird convertibles were year for year identical to the Camaro counterpart for the same year. there are limitations, like the fender caps and the rear brake light is unique to the ASC Firebird vert... But as an example, a top & pieces from a 1987 Camaro would work on a 1987 ASC Firebird, or a top & pieces from 1989 Firebird would work on a 1989 Camaro. ASC lists them as a GM production program, GM does not recognize them, but GM did list a few replacement parts in their Computers a few years ago for 1987-1989 Firebirds, but not in the Parts & Illustration catalogs. All of the conversion parts that I have seen so far on my car have GM part numbers on them as well...

But that is neither here not there, and off topic.

okfoz

I am not positive but I do not think WS6 was available on the Convertible TA... I know that I looked at an original appearing a late 1992 TA vert that had "WS6" on the center caps, but the center console did not have WS6 listed, and the tires were not the 245's... it sounds like a similar situation. Tires are easily changed, but the RPO in the center console is not...

I would have to look at my 1992 Firebird Vert Dealer order sheet to see if WS6 was an option... but I suspect not.

John

JT

iTrader: (1)

User gcgarner on this website has a 1992 TA Convertible with 305/Auto and he states WS6 is on his SPID sticker. I don't recall him posting the SPID sticker, but he has stated the position (row and column) on the SPID sticker where WS6 is on his car.

Maybe we can get him to post the SPID sticker. I have not seen one, personally.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

And the 87 GTA is a totally diferent animal than the 88+ GTAs. No "standard"/automatic GTA RPOs. They were added yes, but not automatically added as standard, when Y84 was selected.

JT

iTrader: (1)

The 1987 GTA is a different "animal" but there was some standard features/RPOS.

According to Frankie:
http://gtasourcepage.com/forum/showp...3&postcount=11

The 1987 GTA came standard with the following RPO codes:
WS6, and few other options, were standard on the 1987 GTA, even the "strippers". Everything else was ordered either via an option package or individually.

okfoz

According to the 1991 & 1992 Firebird Order worksheets, there was no way to order the WS6 on the convertible. Of course the worksheets that I have on hand are for the US market, so it is hard to say what really happened when exported. But you look in the 1992 Pontiac Dealers brochure and it is not as clear, it appears that it may have been available on the Vert. However the Pontiac Product Books show exactly the same thing as the worksheets.

I would be interested to see if someone has the WS6 suspension on a TA vert...

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I understand all that...But if you look at the RPO Production Figures, you will se ALL GTAs came with certain stuff, after 88. In 87, there was no "standard" for GTAs. The RPOs to build a GTA had to be individually selected.

After 88, selecting Y84 meant certain RPOs were automatically added, by default. In 87, Y84 was "just anothere RPO" and the GTA codes still had to be hand selected. Granted, there was a "standard" for which codes to select, like you couldn't just pick & choose which ones you did/did not want, but wasn't automatic & a certain default selection, of certain RPOs after Y84 was selected.

Guest

The PW7 wheels were available starting sometime in 86. I have an early and a late brochure from 86, the early one does not show the PW7, the later one does. I'm not at home, but I'm pretty sure the 'N96' wheel pictured above (I never bothered to check what I had) was standard up through 87 on the TA's with WS6, with the PW7 being optional and then in 88 the PW7 was the only 16" rim available on the TA. I have an 86 TA, it came with the WS6 and the N96 wheels shown above. Vader has a near identical car to mine, but his was made late in the year (mine was Nov IIRC) and his has the PW7.

Only reason I am fairly certain on the OP's 87 is the charcoal color on the wheels, that would be the correct color for the wheel on that car and color combo. Entirely possible they were swapped, painted GTA wheels, but its less likely that someone would have swapped them and painted them. Might check them for dimples too. Couple that with the right springs, sway bars, and steering box and the chances of it not being an original WS6 are fairly thin.

JT

iTrader: (1)

Stephen, according to the 1987 worksheets and Frankie, my understanding is there was indeed some "standard" equipment/RPOs that came with the Y84 (GTA) code in 1987, which those equipment/RPOs are listed above and below:

AQ9 - Seats W/Custom Trim
GTA Exterior Ornamentation
DD9 - Mirrors (originally)
NP5 - Leather Appointment Group
B2L - 5.7L V8
PW7 - 16" Rims
QDZ - 16" tires
WS6 - Special Performance Package
KC4 - Engine Oil Cooler
J65 - 4-Wheel Disc Brakes (on all 5.7L and all 5.0L/5-speed cars)
G80 - Limited Slip Axle
B34 Front and Rear Mats

According to Frankie, all of those RPOs came automatically for 1987 GTA. Beyond that, you did have to select either an option group and/or individual components (such as power windows, power door locks, etc).

A lot of those RPOs were optional, but not standard, on the Trans AM (AQ9, WS6, etc), therefore, given those equipment/RPOs came with the Y84 automatically, it is reasonable to consider them as "standard" equipment as part of the GTA in 1987.

If you look at this 1987 worksheet, it does confirm the above:


Notice that Y84 came with a list of features, as noted above, which came with RPOs. Therefore, yes, 1987 GTA Y84 did trigger some "standard" RPOs (AQ9, WS6, for example) that would otherwise be optional on lower models (Trans AM, for example).


After 88, selecting Y84 meant certain RPOs were automatically added, by default. In 87, Y84 was "just anothere RPO" and the GTA codes still had to be hand selected. Granted, there was a "standard" for which codes to select, like you couldn't just pick & choose which ones you did/did not want, but wasn't automatic & a certain default selection, of certain RPOs after Y84 was selected.[/QUOTE]

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

That is what I was saying all along.....

For 88+, most of the GTA options were automatically for you etc.

Either I can't type clear or you can't read clear.....Don't know, don't care either......

JT

iTrader: (1)

Stephen, you messed up the quotes. You quoted something that you previously said, but changed (or screwed up) the quotes to make it appear as if I typed it. Maybe that's why you're confused. I fixed it since it wasn't correct.

This is what you previously said:

Reading the above quote, which started this, my take on this is that you're speaking of the 1987 GTA and claiming there was no "standard"/automatic RPOs when the Y84 (GTA) code was ordered. In my understanding, this may not be completely correct. Based on the 1987 worksheet, and what Frankie said (as I both provided above) it appears there was certain "standard"/automatic GTA RPOs automatically added when you did select Y84 in 1987. I listed some of those RPOs above. According to the sources, AQ9 and WS6 came standard, automatically, on the 1987 GTA when the Y84 was ordered.

In a way, I think this is muddy waters. My point is, from my understanding, you could not just select Y84 (GTA) in 1987 without getting some automatic/standard RPOs to go along with it (WS6, AQ9, etc.).

But really, this is getting off topic of the original question.

y84pauloflondon

I've got a 87 GTA(Y84).....WS6.....WOOO HOOO!!!!!
That is if I understand All this correctly.....LOL!

FrankieRider2

John, the 245 tires are listed on both years' order sheets on the convertibles as "NA Firebird, Incl. WS6 Special Performance Package".

But there is no notation in the Additional Options section about WS6 separately....

JT

iTrader: (1)

Interesting that Tony says his 1992 TA Convertible is WS6:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...91-post26.html

okfoz

Thanks Frankie...

I kept looking at the checklist for WS6, I never bothered to look at the tires... But you are correct, it shows the 245 tires, and it states that it requires WS6, but there is no reference in the options checklist...

John

88gta6spdvert

looks ws6 to me judging by the performance suspension below the map pocket, is the front sway bar huge? 36 mm is correct on ws6 cars.is 140 mph if so I would lay money if low mileage fresh no mods on car.another ws6 biggie is rear disc. ok .

88gta6spdvert

I do on my 88 gta vert the previous owner had pics on here. (88 gtavert) check it out.

88gta6spdvert

where did you get that print out of your cars specs rpos?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

The performance suspension badge on the dash does not mean WS6.

140 mph speed also does not indicate WS6.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

So much hopeless confusion... A zombie thread gets bumped and all the information is here, and people are still confused.

Cliff's notes for this thread...

Q: Is my car a WS6?
A: Does your SPID list WS6?

Q: My SPID is gone, where else can I look?
A: Got a build sheet? Look for WS6. Does GM have a list of RPO's on file for your car? Look for WS6. Does the car still have the tire info chart in the door jamb? 245/50R16 tires were only offered on Firebirds with WS6.

That's it, that's all you need to know. Any number of parts can be changed. Most people don't bother changing the tire placard. The SPID and build sheet have VIN numbers that match the car. Anything else is just a guess.

Ryan Wilcox

http://www.firebirdnest.com/index.php/20-3rdgen/transam/8-1985transam


For those who wanted to take things up another handling notch, there was the WS6 handling package which had new gas pressured shocks and thicker anti-roll bars - 34 mm up front and 25 mm in the rear. 4-wheel disc brakes were standard with the WS6 package as previously noted. Most resources today show that the WS6 package for 1985 only came equipped with 16 x 8 inch Hi-Tech turbo cast wheels and P245-50VR16 Eagle Gaterback tires. However there are a few confirmed Trans Ams that left the factory assembly line with one of the two 15x7 inch wheels types previously mentioned and the P235-60VR-15 Gaterback tires from the QAC package. It's unknown why Pontiac also offered the QAC package, however it may have felt some buyers preferred 15-inch wheels.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Got a better reference, or evidence beyond hearsay from another website? Because without evidence, or documentation, challenging the accepted view, it's your job to prove what you're suggesting.

Ryan Wilcox

<br /><br />I'm trying. Lol I'm looking for all and any information on how to retrieve GM documentation on a Trans Am I have. A build sheet would be great. From what I can gather from the GM Media Archives they can only get build sheets for Cadillac. They only can retrieve Pontiac vehicle invoices back to 87. I think maybe I should try Vintage vehicle information through the GM media Archives. Things I do know about my car. It was originally titled outside of the USA. (Maybe Canada?) Other hearsay I've read is Canada has better automotive records) My car is an early production 85 (delivered in 84) A Pontiac dealer told me in the 90's that the air intake system on it was only produced for a few months. (Technically, I suppose that is also hearsay) It has the 305 TPI, Performance Suspension, 15" rims, Performance Sound, t-tops, firebird hood decal, It's brick red with gold ground effects and rims. I want to find out as much about it as I can. (The major reason I'm reading these threads and websites) This car was ordered very specifically it seem, not just a "factory package car". It was always difficult to get certain parts for (MAF ECM was close to a grand in the late 90's, only available from GM). Was always told it doesn't exist. Lol I was thinking of taking the title, and other codes or numbers to the local dealer who worked on the MAF for me back then. (I know they are no longer a Pontiac dealer, but thought maybe they could help) Any and all information or suggestions on how to find more info from yourself and others is appreciated.

okfoz

Actually I think the WS6 from 1986 & up (possibly 1985) got the 36mm front sway bar, not 34mm.

the 34mm was for the F41 (Base Trans Am suspension)

For 1986 & UP, All Trans Ams, have the "Performance suspension" badge on the dash, regardless of F41 or WS6/FE2 option.

The Trans Am with the F41 got the 15" wheels through 1987 for sure.

John