Awesome-X

Wow thats a great deal! Makes me wish I had a TPI car lol

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I'll tell you, even with the crappy original injectors, I love the way this TPI motor puts out. I am anxious to see how she runs with the Bosch III's.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

My Bosch III injectors arrived yesterday from southbay. I had opted for Priority Mail service, which was the cheapest, and it took all of 3 days for them to arrive. I was like a kid at Christmas.

I ended up working about a 16-hour day yesterday, after being exhausted all week long, so I literally had to force myself to get up and dressed this morning to go out to the garage.

I looked everything over, and concluded that I was in for about a 2-hour job, if all went well.

Well, here's the part where the old man starts complaining: I don't like to remove or dissassemble things any more than is necessary to complete the job. So, I observed that the upper plenum surface where the runners mount is angled, and I reasoned that the upper plenum could be removed without messing with the runners. Cool.

The upper plenum came out easily. Then I noticed that it was not going to be possible to get a socket on the fuel rail bolts, and also that said bolts were badly rusted. To make a long story short, I was only able to remove 3 of them. The 4th was in the back on the driver's side, next to the fuel pressure regulator. It was badly rusted, and none of my wrenches would budge it. They all slipped off.

I figured if I would take off the driver's side runners, I could drop a six point socked on that last bolt. The first two torx head bolts on the forward part came out easily. The third, which also holds the cold-start injector in, would not budge, and stripped almost immediately. I ended up drilling it out.

'Twas then that I discovered that one bolt on each side is accessed through the opposite side. The driver's side one is right by the stubborn fuel rail bolt that I couldn't loosen. It is also a torx, and also would not budge. I then saw that if I could get the fuel rail removed, I could probably vise-grip this one out. GRRRRRRRR.

Since I was now at the point of throwing tools and hurling insults at my GTA's would-be mother, I decided that this would be enough for today.

Total time invested in this project: 5 hours and counting.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

5 more hours of fun today... I got really sick last night, and slept well into the morning. I didn't feel great when I got up, but I forced myself to go out to the garage.

After having exhausted all other options, I began to consider using a propane torch and/or a zip wheel to get that fuel rail bolt out.

The zip wheel seemed like the better of the two... although I was quite nervous. As badly as I wanted to fix the car, I didn't want to literally die trying.

I cut the head off the bolt, and since it was flanged, I had to sort of grind the flange down little by little. When I was most of the way down, the dang bolt literally came loose, and I was able to turn it out with my fingernail.

I was then able to get the fuel rail up, but not out. So I took the two sides apart, but the EGR valve was still blocking removal. My imagination was painting all sorts of horrid pictures of what I would go through to get the EGR valve out. It came out as easy as pie. One for me.

The left rail came right out, and with some difficulty, I got the injectors removed. The right rail was still trapped against the runner, so I had to remove the injectors with the rail still in place. Then it, too, came out.

Now, with plenty of room to work, and see what I was doing, I was able to coax the 'opposite side' bolt out of the left-hand runners. My arthritic fingers had some trouble with the vise grips, but I got it out without too much more trouble.

Now came the part that I had been dreading: Removing the last two bolts in the left side runners. I remembered an old trick from my aircraft mechanic days: we used to put valve grinding compound on screwdriver bits to help in the removal of stubborn screws when the screw heads were chewed up.

It didn't work. Now I have two more stripped torx bolts to get out. I started drilling on one of them, but fatigue got the better of me, and I quit for the day.

I ordered a set of stainless steel allen head bolts for the TPI system from Alloy Boltz. I promise you none of the torx bolts will ever go back into my engine. I am going to leave the right side runners undisturbed, and save the new bolts for the eventual teardown when it is time to rebuild this engine.

While I was working, I noticed that my oil sender was flopping around back there behind the distributor. Apparently, it was not installed tightly. I hadn't noticed any leaks, but I'll tighten it up after I get that left side runner off.

I sprayed the o-rings on the new injectors with liquid wrench, and then slipped them into place, so that there would be no opportunity for any debris or other foreign material to fall down into their respective holes. I also took the opportunity to hit the top of the manifold with a shop vac, again to clear debris.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

If you have a case of "might as wells" I think David has a set of large mouth runners. Good luck with the repair!

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I'd consider it, except there are potentially six more bolts for me to have to drill out, and I don't want to go there.

I'll think about stuff like that when I have to rebuild the engine.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Don't large mouth runners require expanding the holes in the plenum and intake manifold as well? I heard that they don't do much if you just bolt em in.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Honestly, I don't know... but that seems to make sense. In any case, I am going through withdrawal without my GTA... for an old guy, I can be such a child.

I want to get it fixed so I can drive it again! BTW I bought a nice shifter plate off a TGO guy in Mass who was parting out a Formula. I just need to cut a hole for my mirror switch. It is in nice shape... jonesing here to get it installed and drive my car again!

MI ROC-Z

Subscribing, I read the build you did with your kid and was amazed, nice work.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Well, thanks. We do the best we can. He's thrilled with his car, and very protective of it.

My favorite part is when one of his peers says something like, "Oh, man, you are so lucky to have a car like that"

His answer: "Luck had nothing to do with it; it took money and lots of hard work."

88 5.7 Iroc-Z

yes bolting up bigger runners to a stock plenum and stock intake base doesn't give you huge power gains, I bought a pair of heavily ported SLP runners a while back and and installed them on my stock plenum and base, didn't really feel a difference, but hey for 25 bucks it was a steal

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I'm not against playing around, but I was happy enough with what I had... just wanted to fix the hard starting and occasional stalling.

With all the difficulty I am having with those bolts, I'd just as soon wait until some future day when the engine is out of the car for a complete rebuild. Then I'll think about stuff like that. For now, I just wanna drive my car!

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Besides, the stock pieces can make good power & torque (down low were you want it for the street) anyways. Just concentrate on the heads & cam & you can be happy.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Hey, Stephen... I am also looking into getting an aftermarket radio to work with the GTA steering wheel controls. You been down that road with yours?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

No steering wheel controls in my car. They weren't standard on all GTAs, just an option. I just have a standard radio & I have a Pioneer CD player anyways.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

try a top of the line Pioneer radio. Pioneer also sells a steering wheel adapter and remote.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_541WRIP...P.html?tp=3405

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

just an FYI now that you have a couple running pontiacs maybe you and your son would be interested in joining the POCI? Its an international Pontiac/Oakland/GMC club. The roanoke chapter meets monthly, puts on shows and benefits etc. Its like $1 a month to join. We're having a cruise on the 11th from Roanoke to Olde Liberty Station in Bedford for a monthly meet/dinner. You can sit in and see what we're about if you want

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I guess it would depend on what time it is... my son works until 6 PM.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Well, with the help of a drill, some screw extractors, and some PB Blaster (not sure if it helped, but it didn't hurt) I got those last two stubborn bolts out.

I then started to remove the other runner, but at the first sign of trouble, I gave up. I was able to get the fuel rail back in place with the new injectors without removing the right side runners.

I got a late start today, so I wasn't able to put everything back together... I think I'll have it running by lunch time tomorrow if I get an early start.

What I found interesting was that if I drilled the heads off the bolts, they ended up being nice and loose, and was able to remove them with my fingers once the runner was off. I guess that means that the head of the bolt was where most of the problem was.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I hate hate hated those bolts when I had the TPI on my car. First chance I had the money I ditched them for regular bolts. Good luck!

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I'm through with predicting how long a job is going to take...

Yesterday, I got the fuel rail and injectors all installed, and decided to test it all under pressure. I got a flood, and realized that I had forgotten to put the cold start injector back in. As it turns out, I also had an o-ring leak. So, the rail had to come back out, and I saw where I had pinched the o-ring. I managed to get a small assortment at Advance that had what I needed.

I finally got it all together, holding pressure, with no leaks. Reassembly was fairly easy, except for that one last bolt in the back on the driver's side.

I had purchased a complete set of TPI bolts from Alloy Boltz, and installed them, coating them first with anti-seize. I got a set of metric allen keys with the round ends, and it turned out this was a must-have. That last bolt on the driver's side was a problem, but I was able to snug it down using needle-nose vise grips. Fortunately, the torque on those bolts is fairly light.

The rest of the job would wait until this morning, as I had visitors.

This morning, it took about two hours to get everything put back in order, and the car started right up. It faltered a bit, which I blamed on all of the liquid wrench I had been spraying in the injector bores, and the flood from the fuel rail test.

Although it seemed to smooth out, it stumbled a bit every so often, and occasionally it seemed like the computer was 'hunting'. Then it smoothed out again, so I took it for a ride. I was less than impressed. It seemed OK, but would chug and shake under a load. I wondered if I had disturbed a spark plug wire or something, but it all checked out OK.

I was about to have a fit, when I figured it would be a good idea to go over all my electrical connections, to be sure that I hadn't missed anything. It turned out that I had not securely plugged the pigtail to #8 injector. It popped right off when I touched it. I pressed it into place, it clicked, and then I started the engine.

It was like night and day. Suddenly my car ran like a dream. I took it for a brief test drive, and so far I am pleased. I let it sit for several hours, and late this afternoon, I turned the key, and she fired right up.

I'll reserve judgment until I have driven her for a couple of days, but so far, all looks good.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

QUICK UPDATE

It would seem that my hard starting problem has been cured. The car runs very smoothly, although it didn't run all that badly before I swapped out the injectors.

I think the throttle response may be a bit quicker, and it seems to require a very light touch on the throttle.

I did get a SES light today, but it went out on its own, and that was after a brief period of rough idling.

It stalled on me once after a hard downshift, but other than that, it seems to be running better and better at idle speed. Under acceleration, it always runs very well.

I'll give her a few more days of driving before I decide to take any further action.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

PROGRESS REPORT

The car runs fine as long as she is underway (over 20 mph). At idle, I never know if/when it will stumble, and at very low speeds, she tends to buck sometimes. Other times, she is as smooth as silk.

On rare occasions, she will stall at idle. A few times now, I have gotten a SES light, but it always either goes back out again, or goes away when I shut the key off.

I have done some reading, and I discovered a little test (at Silverback Garage) that might shed some light. My symptoms seem to be compatible with a failing MAF sensor. If the SES light is not on, and you tap the MAF with a screwdriver, and it suddenly stumbles, that nails it. So I will try that.

In the meantime, I have become obsessed with steering wheel radio controls. Of course, this only becomes an issue when one has a radio. I found a JY radio in the rear compartment that is compatible with the steering wheel control. The PO of the car seems to have butchered the radio pod, so there are no mounting brackets. I am going to have to look into a fix.

Then I was poking around at Crutchfield's site, and found out that we can use aftermarket stereos with a PAC adaptor... and I saw a particular model that appealed to me. It has a DVD screen that pops up, and you can get a GPS module for it.

Imagine my surprise when I found one on ebay, WITH the GPS module, at less than the cost of either unit separately... and this was all new-in-the-box stuff. It arrived today.

So now I can play some more, but my car runs in the meantime. WOOHOO!

Awesome-X

Wow sounds awesome, take a pic of that stereo for us, it sounds cool. I didn't know we could use aftermarket stereos with our radio controls so thats pretty cool.

Glad you seemed to get almost everything else sorted out. Did you check for stored codes?

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Well, I didn't think it would store a code unless the SES light latches. I guess it will, because I get a code 44. I am wondering if that is because I had that one injector disconnected, but I'll clear it when I get home and try again.

According to what I am reading, the code 44 could also be a fouled O2 sensor. I'd love to replace that instead of the MAF.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I realized that I could just go out to the car and try the MAF test, so I just did. It was not idling particularly smoothly, but rapping the MAF made no difference.

All things considered, it's probably wise to change the O2 sensor... it's cheap, and if that solves my problem...

But then again, isn't the O2 sensor not a factor when the car first starts up cold? The idle stumbles before the system has a chance to go into closed loop mode...

Input, anyone?

Stangski09

iTrader: (10)

If the maf is bad youre car will barely and maybe even not start up, then you have to keep it running by toggling the throttle, then once in closed loop the car will run.
I had the same issue till I threw a new maf in, car ran great, didnt stumble anymore and if anything gained me back some of my power.
Did you try unplugging the maf on start up? Because if you do and the car runs, but it will idle around 1500, youre maf is bad.

And Stephen, i'm almost certain all 1988 GTA's came standard with a leather wrapped steering wheel with integrated radio controls.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Interesting new development: after pulling the trouble codes, and rapping the MAF, I went back inside to work (there has to be some benefit to being self-employed).

When I came back out to go home, the car would not start. I opened the hood, did not see anything amiss, and rapped the MAF. The car started. I damn near stopped at Advance on my way home to get one... but I prefer to troubleshoot more carefully.

I was down below 1/4 tank, so I stopped for gas... and when I opened up the cap, there was a loud "WHOOOSH" as I broke the vacuum seal. This led me to wonder if this didn't have something to do with my problem.

I filled the tank, and discovered that I had gone from 16 to 18 MPG in a single tank full. This included about half a tank before changing injectors, and spilling a lot of gas during the job.

The car started right up, and suddenly was idling beautifully, and not stumbling at low speed. Now I am wondering if all I really need is a new gas cap?

We'll see. Side note, I am a little torqued off because I seem to have lost one of my center caps to my wheels. Anyone have any suggestions as to how to prevent losing them?

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

So a whooshing sound when the gas cap is unscrewed is a bad thing? My 91 TA LB9 does that almost every time I go to fill up, but it runs fine as far as I can tell.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I know that it is possible to get a SES light if your gas cap is not venting properly. I am going to replace it and see what happens.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I drove the car to work this morning, and it stumbled right from the moment I started it, and once again, only at idle and low speed.

A couple of times it smoothed out, but the problem seems to be getting worse.

After reading numerous threads, I decided to do the simple MAF sensor check. I pulled the connector, and started her up. She idled perfectly, and responded crisply to the throttle. I ran it for a few minutes, and she did not stumble once.

Then I re-connected the MAF, started the engine, and within a minute she was stumbling and hunting. I am going to get one of the new Micro-Tech units from Advance, and see where that takes me.

stroker_SS

Hopefully your erratic running problems will be solved by the new MAF, with all the hard work you put into this thing it seems like you deserve a break.

I was just curious as to what would make you want to give up such a rewarding career as aircraft maintenance.(I;m an a/p myself)

Anyway, this has been a pretty good read so far, glad to see your coming along with it.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Do you want to try a good used maf before you drop money on a new one?

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I wouldn't mind, except that I already ordered one. I'll have it in a few days (online from Advance -- with the special promo, I got it for $142).

Thanks anyway.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I went to Wal-Mart on a whim, and guess what: they had the aftermarket in-dash radio install kit and the pigtail for my car.

So now I am playing with the radio installation. The PO cut off my radio mounting tabs, so I may have to do a bit of fab, or else replace my radio pod. We'll see...

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

pioneer is the way to go dude

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I just got done with this thread!! Nice work man. Alot of time into your pride and joy paid off!! I cant wait to get mine up and running.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Well, as much as I loved the job (actually I was an avionics tech, but I got my A/P)... I worked for the once-mighty TWA at JFK, and the handwriting had been on the wall for a number of years. At the same time, I was getting more than a little tired of living in NY (LI).

We discovered this lake when my parents were looking for a place to retire... and we decided to come down here, too. I worked briefly at the Roanoke airport, but I was working on eggbeaters (dash-8's) and it just wasn't the same as heavy jets. I applied for UPS, but they kept wanting to send me back to NY. Eventually I quit, a few days before 9/11/2001.

I opened a computer shop, did well until the price of computers plummeted. I still do repairs, but in the meantime my Dad and I purchased the lake radio station.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

OK, I spent a lot of time working on my radio install this weekend.

I know that Pioneer is widely recommended, but I got a screamin' deal on a Jensen unit with a GPS add-on module, so I went with that. The Wal-Mart install kit helped a lot, but I am having trouble fitting all of the wires (it is an enormous bundle) into the cavity and still allowing enough room for the radio.

I have it temporarily installed now, but I'll need to play with it some more before I'll be satisfied.

I'll put up pix when I get it right. In the meantime, the radio works fine, and it plays CDs and DVDs too. I'm going to test the GPS this morning on the ride in to work.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

GPS did not work. It communicates fine with the HU, but it thinks it is in Alabama (I am in VA). I can look at maps and what-not, but it cannot locate itself. The diagnostic page reports that the unit is not seeing any satellites. I have gone through all of the instructions and troubleshooting steps, and the thing just flat does not see a single satellite.

I posted a TS ticket to tech support. I'm thinking they will probably have to replace the antenna or maybe the whole thing.

The radio sounds fine (I am just using the stock speakers) and it is cool to be able to play a DVD in the car. It has the capability to send video to a remote screen, there is a provision for a back-up camera, and it will play, control, and charge my iphone. (I am waiting for a cable to be delivered that it needs to do that.)

I think it does some other stuff, too...

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

jenson is a good choice cruthfield might have a module that you can still use the steering wheel pod to control the new radio

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Yes, they do. My original plan was to install the radio that I found in the back of the car, so I could test the steering wheel controls. Once I was satisfied that they were working, I was planning to buy the PAC module.

As it happened, the radio is one of those "DelcoLoc" units, and I was unsuccessful at getting it to unlock. So I decided to just quit wasting time on it and just installed the Jensen unit. After I get the rest of it working, I will order the PAC unit and install it.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

The new MAF sensor came today from Advance. I ran out to the car and installed it. So far, she idles nicely, but there is still a bit of a buck at low speeds. I'm going to drive her a bit, just to see if that clears up. If not, I'm going to change the 02 sensor.

Awesome-X

Post a pic of your new stereo

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

x2 we need pictures

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

OK, OK... the sun is shining brightly, and my t-top shades are long gone... so it's hard to see...

I'll take more after dark or in the garage.

The first one shows the radio in place, the second with the LCD screen deployed... the third with a DVD movie playing.

The wires that you see are a special ipod interface that I use with my iphone. There are duplicates of these in the rear of the unit, but I didn't have the cable until yesterday. I plan to install it permanently using the rear plugs.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Nice radio, I'm not a fan of the wood trim but that's just my opinion. Oh and here's a song that would sound good with that car/radio combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU304Gs3r60

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

LOL (The Boys in the Bright White Sports Car)... she is bright and white...

I'm not necessarily a fan of the wood trim, either. That's just how it came in the Wally World install kit. I thought about painting it black, but in the end, it really didn't matter much to me. It's OK the way it is.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

very nice

try humount for a better
well here is my stereo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnJuLB2ahe0

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

That's just too cool!

Aw man I'm really tempted to buy one now. I was just wondering how they hold up in the long run since it does a lot of work to open and close.