I bouth the car about 36 hours ago and it was sold under the impression that it was a GTA. I got it home and did more research on the car and to me I dont believe that it is a GTA. It has a 5.7 swapped in from the 5.0. Still has the 5spd, hard top, black snow flakes, cloth interior that he just got completely redone, hopefully that helps someone who really can help me. Im just happy I have a car right now, if it is a GTA amazing, if it isnt thats ok im still thankful i have a car.

 

Got any pics ?

Now I am not sure about this , but I would think you can check the RPO codes to see if its a real GTA. Just like my camaro , the Iroc code is Z28.

 

yeah i was going to post them here shortly, but the rpo sticker in the console glove box only has that heartbreaking adhesive residue left

 

A few things that would distinguish it as a real GTA would be radio controls on the steering wheel, it should say GTA on the map pocket, no fender vents, badges of course, and it would have the articulating lumbar control seats. You will have to run the vin to be certain but it's unlikely that someone would take the time to swap all of these things. Lot of people put the badges on them though. Would love to see pics!

 

Here are some pictures from today and last night.

 

Looks like a Trans Am if everything is original. The Trans Am was actually more rare than the GTA in 1989.

~Matt

 

I would say it's a trans am because it's unlikely that someone would swap out all the GTA options for the regular T/A options. Aweome find though. It looks really clean under the hood and doesn't look like it's been molested too much.

 

It has the Trans Am fender vents and regular T/A seats (not GTA).

My question is how do you know the engine was swaped with a 350?

Thanks,

Rob

 

It appears you have a Trans AM. Nothing wrong with Trans AMs, but you were given the impression it was a GTA and it doesn't appear to be.

You have a fender vent on the driver's side. Fender vents were not included on the GTAs. It's possible the fender was replaced with a Trans AM fender, but the discrepancies don't end there.

You have the standard Trans AM seats. The GTA would have had the "ultma" seats.

You have the black PW7 rims. The GTA came with Gold.

As far as the steering wheel, that actually could be a steering wheel for a 1989 GTA. If the 1989 GTA was ordered with the optional factory CD player, the radio control steering wheel was not available, instead, you would have received the steering wheel pictured. See this Car Distribution Bulletin for details:
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/Pontiac...9cdbs/89F6.jpg

With a 20+ year old car and parts being swapped, the end all be all would be the Y84 RPO code on your SPID. As you said the SPID sticker is missing, the only option you have is to purchase an invoice for your vehicle to see if Y84 was ordered. Otherwise, it's a best guess that it appears you have a Trans Am and not a GTA.

 

the gm emission sticker is a 5.0, and the guy i bought it from had it swapped

 

Well thank you for everything, i will keep doing research on this car with the vin and ill let y'all know what i find

 

You'll probably need to check the casting number on the block to see if you really have a 350. If that's not the original motor someone did a hell of a job hooking everything back up exactly how it came from the factory. I'm not saying you don't have a 350 but you might want to verify. I had several people try to sell me "350" cars before I bought mine. One of them was even a TBI! Unfortunately people lie.

 

And make sure the VIN on the motor doesn't match the windshield/title. I had a guy tell me he put a 350 into a numbers matching 305 car...

~Matt

 

Looks like a TA, but after all these years, there is always a chance that parts were swapped out.

The VIN itself won't distinguish a GTA from a TA. Only the Y84 RPO can.

Run the VIN through Compnine.com & see what comes back. Being a 89, it is hit or miss, as to whether or not they'll have your VIN. Older the car is, the less they have records of.

 

i was under the impression a gta 5 speed could not be had with the 350 engine,only the 305.is this true?

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...0-tpi-l98.html


~Matt

 

That is correct. The 5 speed was only available with the 305. I've got a 5 speed GTA and when I went to buy it I was told it was a 350. When I pointed out that that is impossible unless it was swapped, all of the sudden it was original but it was a special order from GM, one of a kind. Of course it is a 305 lol.

Bowtiebandit: The good news is if you're car has the original 305, it's the baddest *** 305 ever used in a third gen. 88 and 89 305 tpi's that were mated to a 5 speed got a more aggressive cam. It's actually an L98 cam. Only 88 and 89 five speed cars got it.

 

True. The factory never did put a T5 behind a 5.7. Many have claimed to have an original, but they have never been able to provide real documentation that it came that way originally.

 

If i wanted the guy actually has the 305 still that he took out in the first place, do you think i should go get it?

 

It's up to you. Of course a 350 is a more powerful motor but if you were going to consider puting a 305 in it you won't find a better one stock.

 

As everyone else has said, all signs point to a base T/A. Wheels, seats, fenders, and the unlikely steering wheel. Also, I think all GTAs were WS6's, which would mean the car should have rear disc brakes.

I was going to say, if you want to be 100% sure without spending money or waiting, run your VIN through http://www.compnine.com , but the website is down at the moment. Hope GM didn't shut them down permanently...

On another note, if an L98 was actually swapped into that car, I would be real careful with that 5 speed in there...possibly the worst 5 speed ever put in ANY production car, it's definitely not going to hold up to the torque of the L98 for any extended period of time, which is why that combo was never offered from the factory. It's actually the ONLY reason that I'm glad I got an automatic car in case I ever want to do an engine swap.

 

Not true on the disc brakes. WS6 only meant disc brakes in the earlier years. My 1991 GTA has rear drums.

 

Weird! Now I don't feel so bad about having drums

Would 4 wheel disc be under the GU6 option code? Standard with the L98 for 1991?

 

RPO for rear disc is J65, iirc

 

What cam did the 90-92 305 TPI 5 speed 230HP motors get?

 

they got the L98 cam too. the poster you quoted doesn't have his facts straight.

 

But not all L98s got the same cam, so it is hard to just say 'L98' cam. I have a 1987 L98, but it isn't a 1992 'L98' cam.

 

I think this talks a little bit about it:
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/Pontiac...1cdbs/91F7.jpg
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/Pontiac...cdbs/91F7b.jpg
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/Pontiac...cdbs/91F12.jpg

I know my 1988 T/A with WS6 doesn't has rear drums as well.

 

You guys might as well read the TGO tech article on cams for our cars. (go to the bottom of the page)

https://www.thirdgen.org/mods3

 

And you quoted me.....why? That article just supports what I said. 1987 L98s had was is commonly called the 'peanut cam', even though it doesn't look all that much smaller.

 

I'm expanding (and agreeing) on your post.

 

.........

 

Right. I've owned two confirmed WS6 cars which both came with rear drum brakes.

Correct. My 1985 Trans Am came with RPO code J65 and has 4-wheel disc brakes but does NOT have RPO code WS6. The two are indeed separate at least from 1985 onward.

 

No, the '87 L98 cam(also in the LB9 w/T5) was not the "peanut cam." The "peanut cam" was in the LB9 w/automatic.

The '88-'89 L98 cam was slightly larger than the '87 L98 cam.

The '90-'92 L98 cam was again slightly different, but more like the '87 L98 cam.

 

1MeanZ, here are the "straight facts": In 1988 and 1989 LB9 motors mated to a World Class T5 transmission came with the most aggressive cam ever used in a 305, the same cam as the 88, 89 L98. That is the point of my orginal post that you are confused about. 90-92 LB9 T5 combos may have have come with a 90-92 L98 cam but it was not as aggressive as the 88-89 L98 cam. So if what you are suggesting is that all 88-92 LB9 T5 combos got the same cam, that is incorrect.

 

Yep. You could get a WS6 with rear drums, I've owned a fully-documented example.

 

that steering wheel is quite strange to me. ive never seen one like that on a third gen. it looks just like the wheel on my grandmas 90 grand prix ste

 

Hmmmmm well i guess this helps with my search to find out if it is a t/a or gta. Thanks everyone for participating in the argument.

 

That wheel was shared among the entire Pontiac Line, Grand Prix, Sunbird, Firebird, Formula, Grand Am.
My 88 Formula had it and both of my 94 Sunbirds. the one in this Trans Am happens to be leather wrapped which is nice.

 

The wheel would also come on the 1989 GTAs that had the optional CD player - rather than the wheel with steering controls that would have been standard on the GTA.

As mentioned, that steering wheel would be correct for the Trans AM (until the air bag came along).

 

Those seats actually look like base Firebird/Formula seats, Trans Ams usually have a different stitching pattern on the lower part of the front seats with the elastic pockets on the back. Maybe they're not original, or maybe they were recovered?

This is seat pattern I usually see in T/A's...

 

Not to start an argument here but I've heard (not experienced) that if you don't do wide open burn outs the t5 will hold up just fine behind the 350. I've also heard(again not experienced) that if you don't put drag tires on these rear ends and trannys will hold up fine as well as the tires can break loose when you decide to have fun.

 

burn outs are fine, it's when you get traction is when the T5 can break.
A friend of mine had a 572 Big Block with a T5 in it for a couple of years.
Either the tires would fry or the clutch would slip when he got on it hard.

 

Correction, the RPO for an IROC is B4Z, the Z28 RPO is for a Z/28.

BTW thats a pretty clean T/A or GTA which ever it ends up being.

 

well i started it in another post but my car has a health issue. Whenever its temperature get hot it shuts the car off, i notice that the oil pressure will start to drop as well, there are not leaks of any fluid at all. Just gets hot and shuts off. Nobody has replied on the other post and i need help, i also need to know how to check the codes on this car. Thank you all help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sounds like your ignition control module in your distributor is bad. Your car probably runs fine when cold. When it warms up, it acts up and probably dies.

 

Does the car shut off when it gets to normal operating temperature, or is it running hot (as in overheating) then shutting off? If the car is overheating, I'd first check to see if the thermostat is opening. Would be a cheap/simple fix if it's not.

 

The car will start and run rough for a little until it warms up then it will run fine no problems, after driving it for a little while though it starts to get up around 240*f and the oil pressure drops below ten and then the car will shut off. Sometimes it will restart for a couple seconds before shutting off again.

 

Does it have an air dam underneath the car? It HAS to a have an air dam, or it will over heat. I've seen people take them off, not realizing this.

Next....Do the fans come on? If they don't there is another things that 'birds NEED.

Next....Thermostat? Got one? Is it "dead" (doesn't open/operate?)? I've seen people take them out completely thinking more flow = more cooling, but that isn't the case. If the coolant flows through too fast, it doesn't have time to pick up the heat from the block, nor does it flow through the radiator slow enough, for the air flow to remove the excess heat from the wayer.

Those items will get you started.

 

Dont know if it would matter or not, but the previous owner to the cat out and replaced it with a glasspack then goes into flowmaster 40s