kill4thril

did they make one?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

WS7 was a 2nd gen RPO code, but there is no WS7 Model, or any generation.

Even WS6 was just a RPO code, until the 4th gen WS6 model came out.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

WS7 was also for early Thirdgen Firebirds that got the WS6 suspension but drum rears. In 82-83 the WS6 package included disk brakes, to denote it with out disk brakes they used WS7.

But like Stephen said, it's not a model, it's just a RPO code.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I thought I remembered some aftermarket company badging a dressed up WS6 4th gen trans am with "WS7" badging. Package had a different hood from what I remember but I'm not sure on it. Don't take my word for it though.....just something I THOUGHT I saw.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Correct. GM underestimated demand for rear disc brakes and in fact ran out of parts for a short time, thus creating the WS7 option.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I think that was Suncoast & GM sued them over it.

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

That always makes me laugh - GM underestimated that people would want a performance car and also want disc brakes! hehehehe... silly GM.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, they also underestimated demand for the 4 speed manual trans in '82 as well. That's why every now and then an '82 Z/28 pops up with a Saginaw 4 speed, instead of a BW T-10.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

That sounds familiar, lol. Not sure if it was just a hood or a package or what. Freind of mine use to rave about the "WS7" hood that he wanted so bad for his 4th gen. Don't know much about it though.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

There is a mint 82 z28 with a 4 speed here in the austin area.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

They made lots of 4 speeds, the question is which 4 speed they had in them, Saginaw or BW

daveb123

It's a BW- rear discs too!

okfoz

From 1982 -1986 WS6 consisted of the larger wheels 15" in 82 - 84 and 16" 85 & 86, the larger sway bars, different steering box, and Rear disc brakes. You could not get WS6 W/O disc brakes until 1987, when it became a suspension, wheels and steering box thing.

WS7 was only available from 1982 & 1983, possibly 1984, and it was the same as WS6 except it had Drum brakes. WY5 and WY6 were similar, but they were missing G80 IIRC

John

Dartht33bagger

As far as I know the disc brakes were worse than the drum brakes.

okfoz

Yes and no, Drum brakes will usually stop you better, once, or twice. I have locked up Drum brakes at 65 Mph. Consider a 10.5" drum brake vs a 10.5" Disc brake, The drum brake you have more surface area at a larger radius, all of the stopping power is 5.25" from the center, which means you have more stopping power. The disc brake has a Dia of 10.5" but very little of that stopping power is on the edge (5.25" from the center). In 1989 when they went from the 10.5" rear disc brakes to the 11.75" rear disc brakes GM used more of the same parts, than before. Same proportioning valve for example.

Aluminum drum brakes are not bad, they cool quicker, so they do not expand as quickly, but they are not as ideal as disc brakes. The 1LE's were reserved the disc brake setups when there was a shortage in 1991...

Disc brakes are less prone to fade, thus why they use them in performance applications.

The pads are actually a very important part of the equation in my experience, a good disc brake pad makes a huge difference in how well you are able to stop. I like the ceramic performance pads, I pay for them but its better than paying for something not working as well.

I have also of the opinion that the 10.5" disc brakes are better suited for manual transmission cars as well than the automatic. When you push in the clutch, there is nothing still pushing you forward, like an auto will.

John

panhead201

the ws6 was not an rpo code but a handling package,tighter steering box,sway bars,discs,wheels and tires.They made the ws7 w.drum brakes cause they did'nt have enough disc axles,late 70,searly 80,s,Ican't remember.Anybody who ever raced em did'nt want any part of the drum brakes in a trans am series or any kind of gt race.They stopped offering as an option from 92 to 96,when the rsm airs came out,then it became available again.I remember 87 was the last year for the carburetor 305,l49 or something like that.They always kept a 305 to qualify for the 5 liter trans am rules,kinda like the dz 302 Z28s.I'm gonna vintage race this one I just got if I can sneak some stuff by em.I,ve put willwood brakes and a QA1 coilover dial in setup on it.I'm keeping the tbi cause they're easier to tune,a tpi will kick its *** but this ones sitting on a whipple supercharger made for an 88 to 96 tbi pickup,305 or 350.Oughta be fun if I can get it qualified.panhead201

bloodyjaws

My 87 formula had the WS7 code on the console. It was a drum brake car, LG4/auto. Nowhere on the car did it say WS6, but every suspension part was the same. I don't have pics of the console codes and have since sold the car. (motor locked up and I needed wheels to get to work.)

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Yes, it was.

In 87, it had to be selected individually for the GTAs.
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/87RPOFigures.html

In 88 & up, it became standard equipment for GTAs after selecting Y84.
http://www.gtasourcepage.com/88RPOFigures.html

I don't think it was restricted to only Y84/GTAs either, but open to Firebirds/Formulas/Trans Ams.

BTW...I love your listing of "Car: 1989TA WS6" when there was no WS6 3rd model. It was just an RPO code, even for 89. http://www.gtasourcepage.com/89RPOFigures.html

bloodyjaws

I might be mistaken. I was dropped on my head. My car was a formula and had drum brakes. My impression was the discs/drums were the difference between WS6/WS7. I've had several 3rd gen camaro's/firebird's (15) and it's hard to remember what car had what codes. Thanks for the correction.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

There are plenty of WS6 birds out there with drums.

panhead201

It is an ooption until 1992,when it became unavailable.It was re-introduced in 1996 with the introduction of the Ram Air.I could care less about any of these codes,options numbers letters,whatever.It's just a fact that thats the way gm did it.It's like the ws7;
they just rqan out of disc brake rear axles for the firebird.It's like the late 60,s early 70,s chevelle ss,s.There was no 396. they all measured 402 cubic inches.I was a GM vendor and they cant explain why they did what they so I ain't got a prayer.Like pontiac 305,s.Other than black paint there is no such thing.They are all chevy,s.Panhead201

panhead201

Oh yeah,I'm sure you're aware that RPO stands for regular Production Option,not like a vin that is what it is.Thanks Panhead201.I know guys that can fake factory oversrpays that were well known on some cars,right down to the wax pencil marks on the inside of some parts,Trying to make a clone or some other funny kinda thing like that.All I care about personally is that it starts when I turn the key,goes fast when I push down hard and stops hard when I push down hard on that pedal.I wanna go to Laguna Seca,not Pebble Beach.If you're into 100% original,more power to you.It's just not my thing.panhead201

panhead201

To darth33bagger,I hope I got the name right,That may have been true on the street?I don't know or never drove a drum brake car,but on the track the drum brake cars were worthless.They heated up,glowed red for a while then just quit.So you had a front engine car with nothing but front brakes,then there was lap 2.panhead201

okfoz

1) WS7 was only available (in the 3rd gen) from 1982 - 1985,
2) WS6 & WS7 were identical for all intents and purposes, the only difference was the discs/drums
3) 1986, WS6 was available, WS7 was not, all WS6 cars got rear discs & ltd slip (unless the dealer order sheets are wrong for GM)
4) starting in 1987, the WS6 no longer was standard with the rear drums & ltd slip, Discs or drums was determined by other factors like Engine/Trans combo.

John

panhead201

Hi,I've had to research a lot more of this than I care to because I'm building one.I can't remember it all,but I'll try to.The base firebird engine was the V6,normally aspirated, the base engine on the formula was the 5.0(i think) FEI suspension was standard.30mm front anti-roll bars,18mm rear.The base engine on the 89 T/A was the 5.0tbi,not the 5.7.The standard engine on the GTA was the 5.7tpi.I know this only because my car is a GTA and the 5.0 tbi was a special order.The difference between the FEI suspension and the WS6 was that the front anti-roll bars were 38mm,the rear 22mm, and the rear discs were reworked. 9stabilized?0 and I think larger..Dont quote me on any of these numbers,they're all off the top of my head at this point,and the 5-speed manual was standard in all of themThe WS6 package had the larger parts and tighter steering ratio,and the anti-slip was an optionAs I said the ONLY reason I know any of this is because I'm building one for the track.I got curious about why my GTA had the smaller engine was because it had the smaller engine but the heavier suspension.It was to keep it in the 5 liter class but be a better race car.I think the whole WS7 deal was so they could sell you the upgraded susp.and they ran out of disc brake axlesI really don't know any of the numbers for sure,but I know GM.They would put 2and 1/2 inch sheet metal screws in a hole that called for a 1/2 inch screws just because they ran out of the 1/2 inch ones.The plant I was a vendor for(Wentzville,Mo) made full size vans and they did some insane stuff.I quit t5ryingt to figure it out.They warehoused no more than 24 hours of parts,then they had to improvize or shut the line,and thatDID NOT happen.panhead201

Drew

iTrader: (58)

There are too many errors in what you just said, to even bother correcting you. I wouldn't know where to start.

panhead201

How about you start with the first error and we go from there.panhead201

panhead201

http://www.ehow.com/info_7891565_197...fications.html how about we start here,then.Go to the search engine of your choice,Type in pontiac WS6 or anything like it and see what you come up with.

panhead201

http://www.ehow.com/info_7891565_197...fications.html

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

I owned three 1983's TA's all bought new in 82 and 83. One had a CrossFire engine, 700R4 trans, with the WS6 option. The second one had a 4 barrel engine, standard trans, and had the WS7 option. Both the WS6 and WS7 had 3:42 gears. The third car was a standard base model TA, with a 4 barrel engine, 700R4 trans, and 14 inch turbocast wheels.All three were t-top cars. Other than the engines and transmissions, the only differences between the WS6 and WS7 cars were the disc (6) and drum (7) rear brakes. Same size sway bars, same 15 inch turbocast wheels with Goodyear Eagle tires. The base model was completely different from the other two.

WilliamSilver

iTrader: (6)

<--- has 88 Firebird WS6

xcalibur

Panhead's right about the limited slip still being an option, at least for 1989.
I specifically remember checking the box when I ordered my '89 350 Formula,
(with WS6). Our local dealer didn't even know that the axle required a special
additive (aka 'snake oil') and tried to convince me that they used a "synthetic" gear
lube instead. I had to special order it for the first recommended lube/change for the
rear axle.

panhead201

Once again,thank you.panhed201.I don't think I know a lot about these cars,I'm pretty sure I know nothing about em,that's what brought me to this website to begin with.So I could learn something from peoople who did.

xcalibur

---------------------------------------------------
For History's sake, let me try to clarify the post above.
The casual reader may think that the 700R4 was available in 1982 or 83, based on this post.
The only automatic available in 1982 or 83 was the infamous 200c (Chevette) tranny. The 700R4 was a judicious replacement. GM replaced my 82 TA's 200c just before 30K. That was the avg life of the 200c behind an unabused V8. I had to pay for each and every 200c after that at regular 30k intervals.
I had to reread the orig post regarding the "base" TA he talked about.
I think we both agree that it was not a WS6/WS7 car since it had the 14" Turbocast wheels. The WS6 cars all came w/the 15" Turbocast wheels in '82 & 83. The 14" wheels on an 82/83 T/A signal a WS4 car.

panhead201

I,m still trying to figure out what I want to do for a trans.This gear ratio does'nt leave me many options.Have you had any expertence with rhe 5 speed manual trannies?I wanna use this thing on tight gt coursesI've got a 67 vette,option delete (tanker),its a 427-435.It's got a muncie close ratio 4 speed in it,bought it new.It was a track car,but I think I oughta leave it alone.I could never afford to replace it.I like this whipple supercharger,concentric twin screw, no lag at all,a ton of torque,I'm putting some thick deck aluminum heads on it,roller cam around .600,long duration,just hope I dont blow the pistons out the bottom.This an expensive hobby without sponsors,but at least you don't have to listen to anybody.Thanks,panhgead201

Drew

iTrader: (58)

With all due respect, it'd take me (or anyone else) much longer to correct what you're saying, then to just let you, and anyone else who should come across this thread, know that what you're posting is full of mixed up facts and bad information.

If you don't know what you're talking about, use the search feature, look around a bit, study up, and ask questions when you're confused. Don't just rattle off a bunch of random, mixed up, nonsense and expect other people to clean up the mess you created. Not trying to be rude, but why even bump a thread that's been answered and is almost a year old?

panhead201

I suppose I should make a smart remark then sign off before you get the chance to answer it.I face my mistakes and hope I'm man emough to admit I'm wrong.

okfoz

This makes my head hurt, so bear with me.
1) Yes the Base Firebird had the V6 as standard equip (I am assuming 1987+) They were MPFI... Ok so far so good...
2) Nope, the Formula came Standard with WS6, there was no option other than WS6 it was the only way it came, it is the FE2 Suspension.

3) TRANS AM & FORMULA
a) 1987 - 4BBL (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
b) 1988-89 - TBI (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
c) TRANS AM 90-92 - TPI 5.0 (S), TPI 5.7 (O)
d) FORMULA 90-92 - TBI (S) TPI 5.0 (O), TPI 5.7 (O)
4) GTA - 5.7 (S) 5.0 TPI (O) Keep in mind some years the 5.0 TPI was NA with the Automatic in the GTA.
5) WS6 suspension had 36mm front sway bars and 24mm rear sway bars from 1986 & UP, I think 1985 as well, but I have to look into it.


Starting in 1989, all rear discs got the PBR "1LE" rear Discs that were introduced in 1988, and used in the Players series as early as 1986. The front discs remained the same. It was an attempt to reduce the different parts on the cars more than anything as they used more similar components with the Drum brake cars. I believe it was a means to reduce confusing on the line.


The rear brakes had nothing to do with WS6 after 1986,

The Van plant you are referring to used a method I believe it was called R.O.T. Rite On Time. More or less it was a means to keep inventory low. The Vendors were assigned the duty of actually inspecting their parts, and the parts would go right to the place in the assembly line where it was needed, and probably were not inspected at the plant. Japan had been doing this for years, it reduced labor costs at the plant. Its kind of where the ISO "QS 9000" series of Quality management grew out of.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

I always knew it as J.I.T. - Just In Time at the places I worked at that did that to reduce Inventory storage. When I did inventory, I hated J.I.T. because while the parts for that day SHOULD be there, they weren't always.

Jason E

This is 100% correct. I have an 88 WS6 car with drum brakes. I have an 86 non-WS6 car that has rear discs as an option, as well as ltd slip. Its funny because once you factor in the costs for rear discs and ltd slip, as well as the larger 235 width 15" tires my car has, a WS6 car was less than $200 more!

The only reason I can see anyone optioning a car like this was to have the smoother ride of a base suspension, with better traction and braking.

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

86 Must have been a strange year with disc brakes/posi. My neighbor has an 86 Sport Coupe with NO options except LG4. Hardtop, base instrumentation with lights and no tach, 5 speed, no power windows or locks. Yet it came with G80 posi and disk rear brakes. He bought it new, and it was not a special order.

panhead201

Yeah,Itarted trying to figure it out cause I'm trying to build a track car out of an 89 trans am and I did'nt want to buy the wrong stuff.$500.00 for Rays Engineering wheels(each) and thats used.So there's no great return policy.So I need to know the right backspacing if I put larger brakes on it.It's fun but it can get expensive and irritating real quick.The only thing I've got to go by are the build sheets and the experience of guys that have owned them.They both leave a little to luck in the end.But I'm having fun and dredging up a lot of good memories along the way.Thanks panhead201

Jason E

^^Not to get on the train of people making fun of you, but could you please use some punctuation?

Its really hard to read to read yourposts.Imean I want to and all.But when all the words are smashed together it can be hard.Just saying.

panhead201

I personally never referred to the Van Nuys plant.I've never been there.The plant I was referring to was the Wentzville assembly plant in Missouri.They had a stamping plant that was supposed to be independent of the assembly plant and have been capable of supplying 5 plants with stamped steel body panels.It never worked out that way.We could barely keep up with wentzville.They made full size vans in different configurations.It was originally the plant where they made Buick park avenues then converted.Full size vans never lost their demand,UPS,the local florist,DHL,the list is very long.And the stamping plant was on a 24 hour supply of material on hand.And this was steel sheets cut from coils in Lansing,Mi,actually Holt,And this was under the assumption that nothing went wrong with the stamping process,sometimes very complicated and detailed.So,if a little air line broke that lifted one sheet from the stack,or someother equally minor event occured,the whole line shut down till it was repaired.I apologize for the huge explanation about something so small,I just could'nt figure out how to explain it any better.panhead201 This also meant that a truck delay of any kind..accident,mechanical,stupidity,unloading problems,loading problems,union beefs,all combined to make this a recipe for a screw up.

panhead201

The last thing I intend to do is get to this level.If you read the sentence you just wrote,you failed to put a space between your posts and I mean.If you did it to illustrate my mistakes,point taken.Capitalizing the B after a comma is a great example.If I continue to respond to any further posts I will proof read anything I send.In the little accident I was involved in in the mid 80,s I damaged my spinal cord.This led to the loss of most of the feeling in my fingers.It's making the mechanical side of this endeavor a little difficult because I refuse to ask for help.I can imagine the effect it's had on my typing,never a strong suit to begin with.I'll strive to improve my grammatical skills.Thank You,panhead201

okfoz

I was close, Its been 15 years since I studied it...

Thanks for the correction.

John

okfoz

I didn't mention Van Nuys Either... I said Van plant...

The Norwood Plant They would inspect everything that came in the door, so they had to handle it twice. Once by the inspector and once on the line

The Van Nuys Plant I am not sure how it worked...

John

panhead201

You're welcome and thanks for the info.I did'nt even know what it was caled.I just know I had better be there.panhead201.

panhead201

The Wentzville plant called me at home one Sunday morning and told me I had to go to Michigan and get this load of steel or they would hve to shut down the line.I drove straight to Mi,they knew about the problem and loaded it immediately.I drove it straight back to Wentzville,pulled in the door,and the forklift driver refused to unload it.I asked him why,explained the whole thing and he said too bad,he was the A press forklift driver and I had B press steel.They were about 30 ft apart,A&B.I said if I had to leave the building I was charging them for another round trip.He said "who cares" and put the newspaper back over his head and went back to sleep.The B press driver had gone home sick.Panhead201

xcalibur

BEAUTIFUL, just freaking BEAUTIFUL !
Thanks 4 sharing, Panhead.