Hey guys,

Really brief about myself, I'm a 30 year old teacher up in Canada, and I've never driven anything but sports/muscle cars (with the exception of my current daily-driver, a 1998 Jetta... eew), so while I'm not a complete "new guy" to this, my areas of expertise has traditionally been Corvettes (all gone) and my one true love, the DeLorean (I only drive it on weekends - currently it's my only 'fun' car).

Anyway!

I'm looking at getting a third-gen Camaro for a daily driver. Why? Because I want something with a little fun and style, and I can't afford a 2012! I don't live too far from the school district that I work in (so the car would see limited mileage per day), and I drive "counter traffic" (opposite direction of rush hour), so the trip is rarely nasty. Living in Vancouver, I see rain often enough, but hardly ever snow, and actually a lot of sun. I should also mention that my brother used to own a 1988 GTA 5-speed for many years, and it was quite a nice car (I drove it plenty), and as my understanding goes, the Camaro's really aren't that different.

To the essential bits!

I'm looking at the car in the link I'm throwing in this post. It's in a city about a three-hour drive from here, and I don't mind going up to at least take a look. What really caught my eye is the low-mileage, the possibly good condition (initial pics show no superficial problems), and the fact that it's the 5-litre 5-speed (I'm allergic to automatic tramsmissions).

Simple questions: Is this thing worth what they're asking, presuming it's in decent shape? Ten grand isn't cheap, but if it's in very good condition, I've seen them sell for more; the low mileage and seemingly very-well preserved appearance of the car may indicate that it's a good find - though of course I intend to check thoroughly. I'm not looking for concourse-perfection in the car, as I'd feel guilty driving it to work five days per week, even with my short commute. Something that's low-mileage and well-maintained is a must, though, as while I'm willing to deal with the costs that come from owning an older car, I don't want to be taking it to the shop every month. From looking at the pictures, it looks like it may have been painted once (not a bad thing after 25 years), the interior looks very clean, and it has a custom sound system (I can't complain about that). I can't tell much else from the pictures; maybe you guys can't tell much more either, but initial impressions are worth something, if you have any.

Anyway, that's all I can say. I know pictures don't tell much of the story (I've bought several used muscle cars in the past), but I'd like to hear what you guys think on "first pass" in terms of fair price (I've seen ones like this listed higher), and if there's anything I really need to look out for on these cars.

Oh, and since the mileage is in kilometers, the car basically has 58,000 miles.

Any guidance appreciated! Thanks.

Link: https://www.russoautosales.com/MoreV...StockNum=A7414

 

I myself wouldn't pay 10 grand for it, even if it was in amazing condition. I got mine for 2k with 120k miles on it, it did need a bit of work but that's too be expected of a 20 year old car, so far I've only put in about MAYBE $300 into it(not including $400 for rear tires...WAY too expensive).

 

A car that has over twice the mileage (120k is a lot in my view) has to factor in a fair bit, in terms of making for a lower price, I'd think. Even in good shape, 120k miles on an engine, chassis, and body means a pretty busy life (even if well cared-for). Around here, 100,000+ mile cars are pretty 'worn' (usually). If you got a really nice '88 (or comparable) 5.0 5-speed for 2k, I'd say you got it for a steal, so congrats!

Now I definitely agree - this one isn't cheap. Absolutely no argument on that one. Until I find out more about its maintenance history and/or what sort of shape it's really in, I'm definitely reserving judgement. That said, I'm not against paying a premium for a very well-maintained and low-mileage car. The average for a higher-mileage third-gen Camaro that's still in "non-abused condition" (around here) is about 7000$, with original paint (for better or worse) and limited receipts/documentation.

This car is on a lot; I imagine I can talk down the price a bit to 9000$, maybe lower if I do a good job. These cars are largely wanted by hobbyists and 80's kids, like myself - lots usually look to sell cars that are more modern and that the 'everyman' wants.

One thing that definitely affects price is the fact that this is Canada; older American 80's muscle cars just weren't as common up here, so you pay more (unfortunately).

Thanks a lot for your advice, I appreciate it.

 

From here it looks fine, personally I reckon you should take it for a drive... if it feels good...and it makes YOU feel good... go for your life. You could get 100 replies to this and 100 different opinions. Me... I love my Iroc and I think the one you have found looks in better condition than mine, the inside looks particularly tidy.
go for it dude...enjoy.

 

A test drive is a really good idea, but also you should check and see if ANY parts were replaced, I didn't do a very good job of checking my car and didn't find out until after I got it that the entire front of the car was replaced. You should also consider the gas mileage of these cars as commuters, which I'm sure you have since you've owned corvettes before, but my car gets usually 15 city and 28 hwy, that's with the 5.0 and 5speed.

 

Drive it and go over it good. Personally, I think $10,000 would actually be a good deal if all is right at 58,000 miles. I've seen them go for a decent amount more than that with that mileage, but those were original or very close to original cars. See if it has G92 and that stripe is definitely not stock.

 

I don't like used car lots, it's usually better to buy a car from the owner. Not sure if they have this service in BC, but in Ontario you can buy a $20 package from the MTO so you can check ownership history.

You said you don't want to be in the shop once a month so I assume you aren't doing your own wrenching. I would pay an independant garage one hour labour just to take the wheels off, get it up in the air and give it a full physical. Also ask the guy to look for signs of body repair. A one hour inspection will not guarantee a trouble free car, but if there are any surprises to be found, it's better now than later.

The only minor problem I see is that the leather looks worn through the steering wheel.

Price is highish for 94k, but it does look good in the pics. TPI, 5 speed and T top is a nice combination.

Good luck!

 

I definitely agree. I did exactly that. When you're buying a 23 year old used car, it should be a requirement. Plus, because you're buying it from a used car dealer, and not the owner, you don't really know how the vehicle was driven, or even if it's the first time the odometer's shown 58,000km. Also, check for a straight frame and any obvious mods.

I get just shy of 18mpg from mixed driving with my original 305/700R4 auto. Gas mileage on those cars might actually have been a little higher with the 5 speed as transmissions were a lot cruder back in the day.

As far as seeing if ANY parts were replaced, that's kind of a loaded question. I'd be shocked and even a little suspicious if nothing were replaced on a 23 year old car. My car has 49,000 miles, and I threw a ton of parts at it after I got it. I now have a much better running vehicle that I can be confident in. As long as the replacement parts are of high quality and were installed correctly, it shouldn't be much of a big deal.

I think 10K is a little high, but the price is pretty realistic for what a dealer would charge. I paid 7.5K for mine 2 years ago, and it only had 47K miles on it when I got it. However, it's not a horrible price considering it's from a used car dealer. You need to try get him down a bit because you WILL be spending money on it to fix things that the one hour inspection won't catch. But pricing for these cars is so subjective and so much emotion goes into the sale of one of these cars.

If you have a little extra cash to burn and don't mind paying the premium, you should go for it. The car looks like it's in really good shape. It's going to get a lot tougher to find high quality thirdgens in the future, and you'll kick yourself if you pass on the opportunity.

But do your homework. Pay really close attention to what your senses and intiuition tell you during the test drive and inspection. If something feels wrong, it probably is. Also, make sure you're prepared to spend a lot of money on gas and extra maintenance, especially up front. Because you'll also kick yourself if you grab the wrong opportunity.

Good luck either way!

 

Thanks for the replys, guys.

Yeah, the singular dark purple paint stripe isn't original, but apparently the car WAS originally black, so the car has either been re-painted, or simply had the stripe added; either option doesn't bother me, as the dark purple looks nice, and new paint (if it is new paint) after 20+ years is never a bad idea.

Agreed that the price is on the high side; I'm hoping to talk him down to 9k. Maybe 8500, if I'm lucky. Again, this being Canada, the cars are a bit more rare, here, and it looks to be in excellent condition with very low mileage for the age. If I come off as knowledgeable and can pick a few holes in the car, I can probably get a better price, which is why I came here for advice - so thanks!

As to the "do it yourself" angle, I'm fairly 'handy' with cars - I definitely know and understand them, and I can tell an intake manifold from an exhaust manifold, SOHC from DOHC, and can certainly change my own oil, flush coolant, replace gaskets, or take care of a minor brake job; I've had to do a good deal of that on my DeLorean! Maintenance in the normal sense I don't mind, but I don't own a large garage to do much more, which is why I'm not looking for just an 'average' third gen.

If there's any other third-gen specific 'trouble spots' to look for, I'd appreciate the tips!

Thanks again

 

Right now, the Canadian dollar is about neck and neck with the U.S. dollar so this is about 10k U.S. I paid considerably less than that for a near mint and box stock '91 G92/LB9 car with 66,000 miles not long ago.

I'd also advise you to get one as stock as possible. It's easier to resell and less likely to have been abused. This one has some deviations. Those window tints and boomin' stereo are nice, if you're about 21. Everyone else'd have to remove them to avoid looking like they were going through a raging mid-life crisis And also, what's up with those purple stripes on the lower portion of the car?? That sure ain't stock. And is that the sun in my eyes or does the back bumper emblem read "5.7 Tuned Port Injection?" If so that's a bit odd considering that the 5.7 was never offered with the 5-speed manual.

To be coldly honest, I'd take a pass on this one, especially if my budget was near 10k. You can do a lot better than that in this price range. I can see your concern about general rariety in Canada but in this day and age, with ebay, nationwide Craigslist searching ability (through Auto Tempest), and reasonably priced shipping, you should be able to expand your search to the U.S.

 

As already stated 10k is a bit much. I'd call them up and see if you can get a carfax or vin number and run the cars history. And I would definitely expand your search into the US. Lots of nice Camaros on Ebay for alot less than 10k.

 

This is just a hunch but it looks like it has 4th gen seats in it

 

The car looks very nice but it has a few things hurting it:

Purple Stripe
Aftermarket Stereo in the back
Can't tell exactly how clean it is due to inconclusive photography. One one hand, it may be slightly faded and swirled on the outside with some dust and fading on the inside. Or, it could be bad photography. Again, I can't tell.

Assuming the thing functioned 100% and needed nothing significant, I think 10k might be a stretch. I'd feel more comfortable at 7 to 8k US$ for that thing. If it were 100% stock, 100% functioning and in immaculate condition, 10k would be a good deal. Aside from the 5-speed, it doesn't have anything wildly desirable to set it off from the rest of the 87 IROCs.

It would be interesting to know what the original two tone color scheme was for the pinstripes.

 

The seats are thirdgen.

JamesC

 

So that everyone is on the same page (because esebiel referenced 94k miles), the mileage on this is KM.

I don't think the price is that far off, at all. Is it perfect? No. But its black, with t-tops, TPI and a stick shift, and it appears to be in nice shape.

What's not to like?

 

exactly.

and since when is there something wrong with an aftermarket stereo? saves the buyer the trouble. dude said he wanted it for a daily driver, did he not? since when is it a crime to to want to have decent sounding tunes in your ride?

if you honestly think that these cars are SO SACRED that people need to leave the factory tape deck in them, then IMO you have missed the true beauty of a Third Gen.

having said that, i agree with Jason, the price is not that far off. there is definitely room to talk 'em down. well bought between 7-8. anything under 7 (very unlikely in this case) is a steal.

between 8-9 @ 50 some odd thousand miles, is fair, considering it is off a dealership lot. i'd look to talk them down to 8-even. i would try being patient, see if [they] get more motivated to sell/move metal with time. then maybe it can be had for closer to 7, who knows.

 

Hmph, as someone else said, a 5.7 emblem was put on the back bumper (they're probably on the GFX too) and also the IROC-Z decal is in the wrong place for an 88 and too high up at that. Don't know what those things are on the steering wheel either. I should have looked at it closer, but you can try to use these points to get money off of it. Still, if it's a good running G92 car, I would talk down that price and just correct those little things later.

 

I think, assuming it is clean in person and drives well, that it should go for around $8k. The suspicious 5.7 emblem, the purple stripe, and what looks to be a bit of general wear/bleaching of the interior, along with the custom stereo, push the value down a bit. That and being sold at a dealer, they've got plenty of room to deal so $8k should be plenty doable for them. A dealer was asking $10k for my GT, after a week of haggling they caved in and gave it to me for the $8k I wanted it for.

As for the stereo, I do think it hurts the value. The stock stereos suck, everyone knows that, but there's a difference between putting in a quality aftermarket head unit like an Alpine and some decent 6x9s to replace the stockers and putting in big old boomers and an amp in the back. Personally the stereo is a turn off to me, although the install looks a lot cleaner than most I've seen, so I'll give them that.

I wouldn't pay $10k for it knowing the dealer has plenty of room, but I don't think it's too far off and it shouldn't be hard to get it for a more realistic $8k. If it were absolutely bone stock, then $10k would be more reasonable.

 

Based on the decals placement, 5.7 emblem, etc, I'd suggest a repaint has been done. Does the picture show if it was a quality job, no? You need to see the car in person to know if the car was repainted, and if so, if it was done correctly.

The drivers side front carpet looks a little discolored. Again, this could be the photos, but if not, at 94km, it could be a sign of the care this car has had. I would also check the underhood wiring and check the wiring under the driver's side dash. An aftermarket stereo install could have been done by a teen that had no clue and made a real rats nest that will problematic down the road.

The asking price is not out of line if the stereo install was done professionally, the paint is high quality and the car is overall clean. Definitely look for G92 on the RPO sheet. That's the performance axle and makes this "asking" price much better. If it doesn't have that RPO, doesn't have a quality paint job, but a "for sale" paint job, and other questionable things, then the price is too high.

Is there anybody on this forum that lives closer to the car than you do and can look at it for you? Go to the regional forums and see if someone can inspect it for you.

 

Interesting replies guys; I noticed the decals were off myself (I checked the fact-sheet for an '88 and noted that the door-decals should be more to the rear as well).

I'll take "a look", but I can appreciate the price is high.

If I can get the guy down to 8k (maybe 8500), and the paint job isn't slap-dash, I may go for it.

 

Not trying to diss the aftermarket tunes but my personal experience has found very few quality aftermarket stereo installations. Usually, they hack all kinds of things up, and not just teens either. "Professional" stereo shops are guilty as well. These shops usually aren't hiring people out of Harvard and Yale, and their general attitude seems to be "hey, if you can't see it, who cares!"

My car had the base and original UM7 radio non-cassette radio still there, and I was very relieved. Even if you can't even hear the stupid thing at 90 MPH with those 3.42 gears and road and wind noise!

Anyway, these posts are just opinions. Everyone's got one. If you like it, buy it, and welcome to the club!

 

oddly enough my car was a victim of this, it also was only half hooked up electrical wise, both underhood and interior...still ran perfectly though and no lights

 

For me, it's nearly impossible to make out anything from these pictures because they won't get any larger than 3" x 4" when I click on them. Pretty aggravating for a car shopper! That said...

What is the true beauty of a ThirdGen? ThirdGens already get a bad rap for mods of poor quality and taste.
Agreed, although I would try to stay between 7 & 8.

I definitely agree with the main point that little things can be corrected later on. It looks like a lot of leather rubbed off the steering wheel. You can get a remanufactured one later on. No big deal. The misplaced decals could indicate a poor quality paint job. But then again, sometimes they didn't even place the decals correctly at the factory.
I think the interior looks pretty good. It does look like there's some sort of spot on the driver's seat, but I think the "bleaching" might actually be sunlight. I can't really make out anything alarming in the pictures, but they're so small and blurry that I barely knew it was a Camaro!

Opinions are so subjective on aftermarket equipment. But since the dealer didn't invest any money in it, don't let him artificially raise the price on the whole car. Also, I can't identify the brands of any of the components. It could be quality equipment. The real problem will always be not what was installed, but how it was done.


As scottmoyer said, a close look at the underhood and the driver's side wiring will be a very telling indicator of whether there will be issues. But then again, ANY shop that does work on cars could also be a bunch of hacks. I could buy a garage and call myself a mechanic, but trust me, you don't want me touching your car!

 

Thanks for clearing that up they looked like the seats I got out of a 94 Camaro for my Bird is the only reason I said that.

 

Yep. No adjustable headrests in 4th gen Camaros. Dead giveaway.

 

hurts the value?

1) from all appearances, it is a very clean, nicely done installation. - and to have really good sounding tunes, you really DO need good speakers all around, an amp, and some "boomers" - not just a better set of 6x9's.

2) dude is not buying this car as an investment - which is wise because no car should be bought as an investment. he wants a cool daily driver. he is not looking to buy a "time capsule" to have people stand around and sip wine over it, then sell it when he's 50 and be able to retire.

 

the true beauty of a ThirdGen is that you can have fun with it.

in fact, in order to be relevant today in a performance sense, some modification is required, not that these cars were slouches in their time - quite the contrary, but people, in general, write them off - "its from the 80's? then it must be slow." its a beautiful thing when you have a 300, maybe even a 400 horsepower suprise under your hood, plus all the advantages of third gen weight and handling, not to mention its uniquely sleek styling. they havn't produced a car as uniquely attractive since, and theyre so rare now.

like what? air shocks and bad rims? where i come from, that type of **** is from a bygone era. in other regions, the "hilljack" movement may be alive and well. 3rd gens are just RARE where i live.

...unless you install a body kit and a triple decker wing on you car. or a tunnel ram on your stock 305. (-- thems jokes, i agree with your point. thing is, from the pics it actually does appear to be a nice installation of quality equipment. so to me, its a good thing. if i bought a 40,000 mile '85 IROC in perfect condition and a factory AM/FM Radio, i would definitely put a system in. i like clear and powerful sounding tunes. i'm not going to have a car that i cant listen to music in because it only plays tapes - and for what? so it might be worth more if i sell it?

 

There's nothing wrong with an aftermarket stereo. But in my not humble and probably offensive opinion, I think the vast majority of them look tacky. And that includes the one in the 87 IROC in the first post. I would much rather leave the factory unit in, disconnect it, and then install a hidden aftermarket system that uses the speakers in the factory positions. If there's a sub or amplifier, it better be hidden. I like music but I'm not an audiophile, and if I were I don't think a thirdgen is the perfect sound chamber to install a megabucks system.

Here's the audio setup on my radio delete car:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/car-...-solution.html

I agree with you on the sacred part, though. These cars need to be driven and used. That's where they're the most rewarding and enjoyable. I just like to see them done right, that's all. The stereo on that car would have to be redone if I were to buy it.

 

Found another same-ish-era third-gen. This one's cheaper, only one picture.

Commentary? I read that the 5.0 was a bit 'weak' this year, but it's easy enough to get more power out of it if I wanted (I'd do very little to it - I want it to be comfortable to drive, not a dragster).

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...924647014.html

 

Decent car, but how can someone say it's mint condition when the chin spoiler is flat black?

I'm skeptical of the paint on that one as well, as there is a decal on the door, yet no stripes. Had it been a DX3 car (stripe/decal delete), I could see someone down the line wanting to add just the IROC decals, but I don't know that DX3 was available that early, I don't think it was though someone more knowledgeable on that could confirm.

I would pass on an '86 though, they really are the castrated year with the weaker engines and the hideous one-year only third brake light hump on the rear of the windshield.

 

If there was ever a car I would have sex with....Probably that sexy black third gen. VERY nice car.

 

Stripe delete became available in 88, not 86. The front end has been repainted as the headlight buckets are too shiny. They should be a satin black, not gloss.

 

Good to know on the paint issue - that's why I come here. Thanks guys!

 

I'm rapidly becoming the town cynic on here I see ;-) This is supposedly a 199 km (123 mile) car with original paint, but the shiny nature of the paint job makes me skeptical of that claim. If that mileage claim is true, well, maybe it could be that glossy but I'm not sure they were that shiny even from the factory, much less a quarter century later. Unless, of course, it was in a sealed climate controlled tube somewhere. But here, that would have had to have been a tube that accidentally ate the stripes off it as the DX3 stripe delete was not available until 1988, and the "IROC-Z" decal that this one has would have been deleted as part of that package anyway.

And while we're at it, it's odd that someone only wants $7,500 for a car with only 123 miles on it. Cars in this mile range are going for well north of 10k on ebay right now, even on a bad day. And why did a 123 mile car need a new $4,000 transmission? Or, for that matter, new exhaust, brakes, shocks and struts, hood shocks, clutch, wiper motor, washer motor?? That makes little sense either.

A lot of questions. I'd definitely want to see more pictures and see the car itself in person. Also bear in mind that a 5-speed 305 in 1986 will be the 165 hp 4-bbl LG4, not the LB9.

 

He surely means 123,000 miles.

 

The engine can be replaced with the $2,500 he saves by going with choice #2.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P.../?autoview=SKU

Maybe the seller only means 123 miles on the new tranny. And as long as the replacement hardware is good, you're better off going for that car than you are doing it all yourself. As far as the paint goes, you never know what a really good detailing job can do for a car. But you definitely need to see more pictures and see it in person.

 

Possibly, though he says "original miles" when desribing the 199 KMs, a phrase I doubt one would use when describing a new tranny. And the use of the word "original" would lead one to believe it in fact has 199 KMs. Who would brag about 199,000 original KMs? Anyway, not to be a **** but he should clarify this, and not leave poor DMC81 guessing!

 

For $2,500 more (and that's assuming the dealer won't negotiate) I would take that 88 WAY before that 86, especially seeing as how he will not negotiate. The KM is half the amount, and the 5 speed will be a better driving car with an extra 25hp over the 86, due to the better camshaft with a 305 TPI/5 speed.

As the former owner of an 86 TA and an 88 TA with a 5 speed, I can assure the performance difference is significant. My 86 was fun, and gave you a nice shove when accelerating at around-town speeds. However, there was zero top end compared to the 5 speed car.

Buy the 88. Skip the 86.

 

Agreed with the above. Unfortunately, in the Third Gen world, 86 is the the year of awkward third brake lights and weaker engines. 85 was better and 87 was much better. It kept improving after that. Go see the 88.