Guys, we at TGO need some enthusiastic help documenting these cars. Some of us that have been doing it for years, have gotten busy and don't have the time. Some of the things we need to have documented here:

Year by Year paint codes and colors with a breakout of what colors were available for which models. This is a huge undertaking, but we shouldn't refer to other sites for thirdgen data.

RPO Codes - this has been started and is still being researched, but time has gotten scarce with a teenage son at home! We need an accurate RPO database that is year specific. What I started documenting was each years RPO codes as I could find them and the definition that used that year. Some years used the same RPO codes, but had different definitions for the same part. The goal was to input the model year and list your RPOs for that year and you would get the correct definition for that year.

Engine block codes - I see many posts where people are trying to decode their engines. We should try to document all available block numbers for the thirdgen cars.

Documentation on yearly differences. This will help others determine what they have and what might be incorrect for their car.


All of this takes time and needs to be as accurate as possible. It also needs to be in a format that is easy to view. Any help in creating this documentation by the masses that come to TGO is appreciated. The information will be posted as correct for years to come, so anybody willing to help document needs to take their time and do lots of research.

 

I am sure there are many members here who are also members of NCRS or have friends or family who are and have access to view the type of information they have amassed over the decades on Corvettes. We should take a page from how they do their "Technical Information Manuals". Pictures of virgin untouched cars down to the nut and bolt level, copies of all the technical bulletins, I could go on forever.

I have thought for years that we should put something like that together for ThirdGens.

We need to organize members to be on "teams". Each team will be made up of knowledgeable people for specific years and models. Hopefully also with access to untouched original cars also. Each team will need a lead, someone to be the editor who can be sure the team members who wrote specific information did their due diligence through verification and not guessing or taking someones word. I would volunteer for the 90-92 Firebird team for example which would cover all models and variations for those years. Seems to me we can break it down into 3 segments, 1982-1984, 1985-1989, 1990-1992. Then have Camaro and Firebird.

We could release the information in PDF form on the website. A good start would be getting copies of TBs, order sheets, window stickers, RPO labels, brochures, factory assembly guides, etc. Obviously an on-going thing where new updated PDFs are released every year or 2 after being vetted for correctness.

Once something like this is set into motion, people will realize what is correct, NOS parts demand will increase, companies that make reproduction parts will take notice, and demand for ThirdGens as restoration projects will increase. Great thing about ThirdGens and they are FAR more of a hobby versus the Corvette which is a business, right down to faking broach marks and engine stamps.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

Great thread Scott!

 

What is the current hold up for the RPO database? Is it pure data entry or gathering the data still? I would be happy to help with the data entry part of the RPO database.

Also, I would be interesting in helping/making an Android app that would make use of said database.

 

I agree with most of what you said - This needs to be done if the 3rdgen cars are ever to gain respect in the future. Yes, the Vette guys as well as the 1stgen Camaro crowd have done just this and are actually still refining their data bases.

Its a HUGE task and my main concern is how will can we be certain of the accuracty of the raw data?

 

I'm a newbie to this site, but it's proven extremely useful to me in terms of troubleshooting issues on my '89, so I'd like to give back.

I can't contribute much in terms of "institutional knowledge" about the f-bodies, but I'm an IT guy by trade and have database/website design experience and would be willing to help organize whatever data we can collect.

 

The current holdup for the RPO database is ME! As was mentioned, this is a huge undertaking and I haven't had time. I've gathered window stickers, build sheets and invoices to help build the raw data, but I've been doing the Camaro side and JT has been doing the Firebird side. There are 11 years worth of RPO codes and definitions that are being manually typed in.

Some have provided entire lists of RPO codes, but they are not year specific and to be the best, we need to do this right. I have a listing of all RPO codes in use from 1980-1992 that a friend at Chevrolet sent me, but I have noticed some are still missing and they aren't listed for each model, but all of GM. To me, this list is worthless. My goal is for someone to be able to look up a 1983 Berlinetta and find every RPO code. I also want them to be able to find axle codes (not the "G" codes), engine block stampings, spring codes, transmission codes (again, not the "M" codes), etc. They could then look at an 88 IROC-Z and find the same information for that.

There is a lot of work that needs to be done and I found that there is very little information being produced by newer members, as in tech articles, etc. We need more involvement than just a couple moderators trying to build it all. If you know how to write code, volunteer! If you are willing to research information, volunteer! We need everybody's help in getting this done. TGO is THE third gen resource and we don't have much documented. The stuff we have isn't very accurate either and has been in place since the beginning of TGO. Let's give the site a new look with tons of information on hand!

 

Scott had been handling the Camaro side by gathering the data from sources, entering the data into a spreedsheet and then sending it to me. I then import it into the database I have setup. I have a rough-draft of a program that I wrote, albeit a bit crude, but the idea is to develop it further once it's released.

Scott was able to do the above at the start of this project, but lately has indicated time constraint issues. Personally, I thought Scott would be more beneficial on articles, due to his knowledge on Camaros, while another member do the Camaro side of the RPO project. Scott had requested to continue with the RPO project instead. Either way, Scott's assistance is valuable.

I'm also doing the Firebird side, and for me, there is a hold up there due to data gathering. While the request for factory build sheets and factory window stickers has provided us with some information that still comes through, it has not been enough to make it where I feel the RPO project can be released when there is still a gap of information. We'd be trading an inaccurate RPO code database for an incomplete one.

Given that build sheets aren't in every ThirdGen to start with, and window stickers are also hard to find, the sources of accurate information isn't exactly flooding. Remember that the goal of the RPO project was to be accurate per year. On the plus side, I've been (albeit slowly) locating material that will greatly help with this project.

Edit: Scott, I didn't see your reply while I was composing this. Sorry!

 

JT, since you are doing the Firebird RPO codes, would you like me to send you a copy of the database I amassed for TransAmGTA.com while it was still active? PM me your email address if you are interested. I'm sure if you did a compare with yours I will have some you don't and vice versa.

 

My build sheet and window sticker are posted in my album for reference.

 

If the Camaro side needs just data entry, I'll be happy to help enter it, either directly into a database or instead a spread sheet that we can import.

 

I've got GM specification manuals for 85-90 Camaros (the books that came in restoration kits). I haven't looked in them in a long time, but they have a lot of great info.

In addition to NCRS, we can probably learn a lot from other similar groups. The Maryland Camaro club runs the Camaro Nationals, and has a judging class for first gens that's similar to NCRS. The Mustang orginizations have similar judging criteria for most generations including Fox bodies. Having restoration criteria for a modern car like the Fox could be just what thirdgens need. I'm heading to the Camaro Nats in June. I'll see if I can talk to some folks about how they run first gen judging & info/rules and see about working with them to develop something similar for thirdgens.

 

While at the nats, find Jerry MacNeish - He'll be there judging 1stgen cars. He has a wealth of info about the very things this thread is discussing and is very open and honest. He could be invaluable in getting 3rdgen documentation off the ground.

 

Thanks for the pointers. You don't happen to have any contact info for him, do you? I'd like to reach out in advance so that we can both be prepared to meet at the show.

 

Sorry I don't have his current cell phone #. Here is his long established info:

Jerry MacNeish
3816 Collier Rd.
Randleman, Maryland 21133
Phone # 410-922-2927

His wife Joy, usually can give him the info. In any case, here is his Website:

www.Camarohiperformance.com

He will be at the Camaro Nationals because he is a senior judge of the 1stgen cars and is a member of the Maryland Camaro club.

I know he'll be busy during certification and judgeing of the 1stgen cars but he is approachable afterward.

 

Sorry, that link didn't work.

Poke here: www.z28Camaro.com

 

I dont have much time between work and the kid, but I would love to help in some way. I have received a lot of helpful advise and info from TGO members the last few years and would like to help repay it in some way.

 

Well... I actually have all of the Dealer books, Fleet Books and Salesmans Books from 1982-1992 Pontiac and Firebird. Not to mention the Salesmans Pocket books for almost all years Firebird, I don't remember if I have any for Camaro or not.

I would love to be able to put them on the site, scan them in and then upload them... not sure about the legalities of it tho. I also have dealer order sheet for all years from 1982-1992 IIRC Firbird, no Camaro's tho, and most of the Distribution bulitins, some I got from WildJeff and most I gathered on my own... Frankie Rider has some of those as well, but I have my own stash.

One thing that I have noticed is for some of these books above there were more than one version, in some cases as many as three, all with slightly different information, some examples is some books show one set of wheels available, and a later version would show other sets of wheels available... Quite interesting honestly.

Now that I am done bragging... Goodnight.

John

 

Yeah I was just thinking today about how every topic related to thirdgens must already be on TGO someplace and repeated. How awesome it would be to drill right into what you wanted to know. i would be willing to assist with this effort.
But Okfoz I think you hit it right on when you talk about the legalities of what we need to do - ie scan in original docs. As soon as I get my service manual I'm starting to scan it, but uploading it? Dunno. Anyone know a lawyer who could interpret? It would be a huge bummer to sink all kinds of scan time in and then be forced to take it down.

Maybe a rockauto type interface to drill into the TGO knowledgebase...

 

Check to see if they are copy-righted. If not, feel free to post away.

 

This would be nice, but the program to run such a feature would be prohibitively complex, even if the data was 100% accurate.

 

I'm game for anything I can help with...I think this is an extremely worthy undertaking. Plus, you never know when I will need to access the info for yet another third gen purchase

I know more about 85-89 Camaros than anyone should, and I have a factory-fresh IROC for extensive picture documentation. Someone PM me and tell me where help is needed...I'm there.