keeperofthe7key

hey guys , how do you see '90 iroc z 28's, with only a little over 4k produced. the last year for the iroc. 305 tpi ,700r4, ttops, a/c .
my muscle car buddies always say how can you tell whats rare when they all look the same and etc. im jus trying to see what you guys think like in 10 years or so , will 3 gens be desirable and loved like 1st gen or early 2nd gen camaros. ok thanks alot bros

Phenom-1

1. The way you can tell the apart is if you have The Passion And The Desire To own one when your a young kid like I had, I learned everything from every hear I could because I knew I wanted it so bad I would kill for it, I'd Run 100 miles for it, The rarest will always be rare, they'll always go for more money than the regular Camaros. In 10 years they'll be more obsolete, you'll see more Hondas, more chevy malibus chevy volts than you will Corvettes or Firebirds or Camaros (excluding the 5 gens )

Phenom-1

Typo, -from even year I could-

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

1990 will be the most valuable year of the IROC in the future, due to its low production. 1990 cars already seem to be at a small premium since you never come across them.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No these cars will NEVER be "desirable" in the same way as 1st gen ones or 55-57 Chevys or any of the old muscle cars.

The reason isn't "these cars" as such. It applies to ALL cars from the mid 70s onwards.

It's THE CULTURE they were born into. By that time, the whole "muscle car" mystique had completely vanished, and NOBODY CARED about cars in that way any more, even though the fastest of them were competitive with the 60s ones.

Don't buy one of these thinking that someday you're going to be sitting on a gold mine. You won't. Nobody will care in the future, any more than they care now, or they cared back in 1990.

For that matter, if you'd taken 2 equal piles of money, and bought a mutual fund with one and a brand-new 69 Z28 or 65 GTO or something with the other, the mutual fund would be worth more today - probably close to TWICE AS MUCH - as the car. Meaning, EVEN UNDER THE BEST CIRCUMSTANCES, a car is a LOUSY "investment".

Don't buy these cars for that reason. Buy the car YOU like, that YOU will enjoy, because YOU like it. Buy it for what it it NOW, to YOU, and NOT for what you hallucinate it will "be worth" "someday". That "someday" will NEVER come. You are shooting yourself in the shorts with your own money of you buy it thining it's ever going to be "worth" more than you are paying for it now, especially if you drive it.

Speaking as someone who owns a 83 L69 car (3,000 some-odd produced IIRC): what it is "worth" TODAY, is what a 90 car will be "worth" in 10 years. Which is, what somebody will pay for one; which is, about $2000- 3000 for a fairly nice one or as much as about $5000 for a REALLY CHERRY one but that has some miles on it.

navy02ws6

LOL, you tell 'em, sofakingdom!

Your response pretty much sums up my thoughts.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

The cars will only be worth trailer park money as long as we continually beat a dead horse about how the cars aren't worth dick **** and to just buy 'em and rag 'em out.

So, I guess OP, the answer is zero. A 1990 IROC will never be more than a pissant's $3 hackjob.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I don't think anybody has said that just yet... although in the long run, may not be far from the truth.

10 years from now, a 1990 car will be about 32 years old.

Right now, a 82 car is 30 years old.

Wanna see what a 90 car will be "worth" at age 32? The "worth" of a 30-yr-old 82 is a glimpse into the future. More than a glimpse in fact; it's a wide-open window.

On the mid-July day in 1978 that I met the woman I am married to, almost 34 years ago to the very day, I was swapping the heads on a 57 Bel-Air for my business partner's wife. On that day, that Bel-Air was just coming up on 23 years old (beginning of the 58 model year was approx Labor Day 1957). The woman who owned the car had had it for several years at that time; and for her, it had been a dude magnet. EVERY GUY SHE MET just HAD TO get her to take em for a ride in it; there was NO POSSIBILITY of them driving it, but EVERYBODY wanted to ride in it. And all it was, was .... the single highest-production model of car that there had ever been before about the 66 Mustang. Those cars were EVERYWHERE, yet they were thought of as "cool". Had nothing to do with their "age", as such; it was because they were born in 57. She didn't have alot of money; her car was a ragged-out, sagging-spring, rusty, oil-leaking, no-AC, valve-guide-seal-smoking, hacked-up POS. But it was a 57 so all of that didn't matter.

22 years old.

That 1990 is 22 years old RIGHT NOW. It's a "muscle car" for its day; although since it had TPI on it, it was no longer even remotely close to "competitive" with other new cars of its type (*cough*Mustangs*cough) at the same time, but that's beside the point. Does it get that kind of attention?

As I say OVER AND OVER AGAIN, the "worth" of these cars simply hasn't, doesn't, and NEVER WILL follow the same path as the "muscle car era" cars. The culture around them dictates that. Has nothing to do with the cars themselves; they were simply born at the wrong time.

Doesn't make em crap; doesn't make em "worthless"; doesn't make em "bad" in any way. Just, they WILL NOT EVER have the same type of value as those older cars have come around to having. It's just not there. Anybody that thinks otherwise is drinking the Kool-Aid.

Buy one because YOU like it. Buy one to enjoy it. Buy one and put it in your garage and go out and look at it once in a while if that's what you enjoy. But DO NOT buy one because you think it's going to "become valuable someday"!! You will be deluding yourself with a very expensive fantasy, and by the time you figure it out, too much time will have gone by for you to fix it.

StevenB L98/LS1

You would be surprised how much attention clean third gens get from the ladies of generation and im only 22 going on 23 soon. My ex loved my trans am. Girl im seeing now loves the car, she knows it's old but appreciates a fine looking body when she see's a car.

But value wise the only ones going to be worth tons are 92 firehawks and 89 TTA.

keeperofthe7key

thanks alot guys on your perspectives , i like what your saying .

eseibel67

Very true, cars are a horrible investment of, but if you look at it as a hobby, it's a great place to waste your money. The best part is that if you buy a nice one, and take exceptionally good care of it, you can drive it on weekends for 10 years and when it's time to sell, you can still recoup a decent percentage of your dough.

You can make money trading cars however. Late model off-lease cars are an easy $1k profit. Or you can can invest $1.3m on a 1960's Ferrari and it might go up in value as long as the whole economy doesn't collapse.

Linson

this should be sticky-ized or whatever under "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING OR ASKING ANYTHING ABOUT 3RD GEN VALUES."

i disagree though, with the last part of the last paragraph. a nice condition "upper trim performance model can easily go for alot more than 5 grand. alot of us paid alot more than that for our rides.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Well YEAH. So did I. Over 25 years ago.

Doesn't have much to do with anything we're talking about here though.

Linson

i bought my '89 Formula 350 two years ago. i paid more than 5 grand for it.

for a very low mileage Formula 350 in outstanding condition, asking for over 10K is not out of line.

where we agree is that 10K is not a life-changing amount of money that would justify buying, restoring, or holding on to one of these for the sake of financial gain.

EDIT: in the last sentence of your post, it includes the caveat " but that has some miles on it." really nice, 1990-ish, but with alot of miles on it, 5 grand sounds about right. low milers worth alot more obviously - so, yeah i agree with you.

Linson

i'm sure that we've probably had this discussion before, but i just want to be clear on one thing:

you are aware that there is a big difference between restoring to ~other than bone stock specifications~ and "ragging out" a 3rd Gen.

personally, i take exception to my Formula being considerred a "hack-job" on the grounds of it having performance capabilities (by way of aftermarket parts) beyond that when it was new. nobody that lives in a trailer park can afford to do what i have done to my car...probably. but it still doesnt change the fact that my Formula isnt worth what i've put into it. when my 67 Firebird gets back on the road, it wont be worth what i've put into it either. but that's okay though - they arent for sale.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I don't necessarily disagree with anything being said, sofa--except as Linson mentioned, the last statement about cherry cars going for $5k. They just don't. They might be clean, but they sure won't be show quality cherry.

For reference, I paid $4300 for mine in 1999 and wouldn't dare sell it for $4300 today. $2k for a fairly nice one? We surely have different ideas of what "fairly nice" is; around here $2k gets you something dead on flat tires with a rotten body and wasted interior.

Beating a dead horse, it just gets genuinely old to see our own community devalue our cars so much. It's the only community on the face of the planet where I can log in day in day out and watch us cut ourselves and the values of our cars down. Nobody is saying they will be '60s muscle car money, of course not. But it would be nice to think we've at least moved past the holy grail $5,000 mark??

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yeah around here, $5k won't buy much either (salt belt, much like MSP); but a $300 1-way plane ticket fixes that.

keeperofthe7key

i agree with you puma , im just asking are these cars in the same class as the same year cavalier? thats what some people are acting like, we are talking about our lovely GM third gens.? to me they are still camaros and trans ams, i think people will value them eventually, just like 60's muscle, no one would have ever thought a 70 camaro would be goin for 30k? but that is just my opinon

keeperofthe7key

no one would have ever thought a 70 camaro would be goin for 30k in '82? did they

Linson

and we have moved past the $5000 mark no matter what anybody says - for exceptional cars. i paid more than 5K for mine. but how much would you pay for your average, fair condition, 25 year old IROC-Z? on average, these cars have well over 100,000 miles on them, a few scratches, a couple of dings, a mechanical problem or two, and a F'ed UP interior. so, youre usually buying into alot of work that needs to be done. be glad that they can be had for cheap and fixed up, rather than pine away for a time when they become culturally iconic like the (at this point, assinine) Hemi Mopars.

speaking of problems within the 3rd Gen Community, i kind of hit on that from a different perspective in my last post. in what other community do the "purists" so often (at least indirectly) refer to EVERY modified car as 'a hack job' or some other form of hillbilly bulls#!+? as The Community, aren't WE atleast aware that a supped up 3rd Gen can be genuinely nice ride, not just a white trash '64 Impala equivelent.

i know that its been said that i tend to **** on people for not modding the **** outta their cars. i'm not shitting on them for staying stock. i'm shitting on them for preserving their car for the pleasure of some unknown buyer, let alone coming into the 3rd Gen/Muscle car community with the attitude of an investment banker. to me, it's like having a stack of Hustlers and never spanking it, so you can someday sell them for whatever an un-used stack of Hustlers go for. probably for less than when they were new, it being the age of the internet and all...

i think that analogy is more profound than is apparent on the surface.

Linson

no. a truly exceptional Cavalier (if there is such a thing) is only worth about 4-5K if its newish ('04-'08.) those dont hold any value.

cIaRmOaCrZo

alot of good points here. very hard to argue with some of you guys. so i guess i can chime in on a bright side for 3rdgens (not that i havent beaten it in other threads so viciously already) but i believe age group, and economy are the larger part as to why these cars wiegh in where they are TODAY, and the FUTURE. its wrong to realy say 3rdgens will never be like 60's "muscle car" era as far as desirablity. because the desire came from an age group wanting those 60's cars (possibly late teen or young adult) and when they finaly reached theyr 40's-50's years of age, they may want to capture that moment again and knew those were the baddest cars on the street of THEIR day. (this age group is grown up with more money now, so those cars are now priced to fit theyr standards because THEY drive up the desirability! and im sure the parents of that age group were diggin 40's and early 50's hot rods and such. and those cars had their time in 60's as the desirable ones. and so on and so forth...yeah i like the 60's, 70's cars. but i deffinatly LOVE the 80's and 90's more!! im in that age group who when i am 40-50 years old, im going to see a decent iroc and have a crazy desire to have it and buy it. so when all you see are full electric cars, hybrids, crazy automobiles farther in the future, seeing an antique gleaming iroc, or gta is gonna strike you and make you think of "good o'l days" reffering to the 80's and 90's. plus our economy is TERRIBLE!!!!! maby it WONT be so terrible in 20 more years, so then maby just MABY you could see a 60k 3rdgen...(just a thought) sorry for the rant lol.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Not really. That's BS, doesn't even deserve to be talked about that way.

So what? whether we here like them or not is irrelevant; what matters when trying to figure out things like ..... MONEY .... is what EVERYBODY ELSE thinks.

And that's where the "culture" issue comes in. What EVERYBODY ELSE thinks. No matter how much we here like them, they simply never were, are not now, and never will be in the same class of things as a 70 Camaro. I'm sure this is especially tough for people who weren't there at the time to grasp; when you didn't live in the pre-smog pre-oil-embargo pre-import pre-55-mph-speed-limit days, it's hard to fathom how DIFFERENT people felt about their cars back then, and how bad those of us who DID live then, would like for cars to go back to being like that. (in some ways anyway) That whole culture EVAPORATED in about 1972 or 3; it's GONE, and it ISN'T COMING BACK. Cars from after that time just simply don't occupy the same place in the mindset of imagination of the world at large. Like, I was out in the Valley last week; stopped by In-N-Out; looked at the pictures on the walls; did I see any pictures of 3rd gens? 80s - 90s Mustangs? 4th or 5th gen Vettes? Honduhs? NO: I saw cars from the 50s and 60s, just like I did 10 or 20 years ago. The "nostalgia" time frame hasn't moved, it still STOPS shortly after 1970.

Like I said, buy one that YOU like, because YOU like it; whatever that reason is. Whether you want to hack it up to a pile of junk like so many of these cars have been turned into, or you want to preserve it as perfectly like new as you can, or you want to mod it and make it competitive with newer cars, or .... whatever; do it for YOU, because YOU want to do it and YOU like it. But buying it because you think its value is going to imitate that of the 60s type of cars, is A BIG MISTAKE. It just won't happen no matter how "beautiful" we here think they are. Like I said, the value of a 1990 in 10 years, is similar to the value of an otherwise equal condition 82 NOW; any hallucination to the contrary is pure fantasy and mental spank-off.