One of the more creative attempts to sell a "rare" Third Gen that I've seen yet...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Trans-Am-H-O-1985-Pontiac-Firebird-Trans-Am-Coupe-2-Door-5-0L-low-mileage-survivor-/151403315436?forcerrptr=true&hash=item23405740ec&item=151403315436&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
The obvious discrepancies are explained away by the seller by the model year change over. I'm pretty dubious for several reasons but I'm curious regarding the thoughts of the Third Gen historians on this one. Take it away guys!

 

VIN code "H", so not the HO.

Typical used-car-seller blabbermouth.

Too bad that designation has got turned into nothing but a buzzword these days. People even call their 6-cyl and TBI cars "HO".

 

Never seen a T/A with base vinyl interior. Interesting.

 

All things considered, it is a very clean car.

 

Easy giveaways that it is not an L69: cooling system would have electric fan, will not have an EFE valve on the passenger side exhaust manifold. These cannot be seen from the photos. The fan shroud looks just like the one on my LG4 equipped car, and mine is also an '85 T/A. Mine has cloth seats, and I agree I've never seen a Trans Am with a vinyl interior. Another giveaway I can see in the photo is the a/c line to the receiver-drier is the wrong type. The L69 cars had a line that made an immediate drop to route below the air inlet bellows. Folks who just install the HO dual snorkel air cleaner typically don't change the hose. I think I can actually see a fan blade from the LG4 clutch fan in the engine bay photo as well. No doubt a clean car and a rare color with two sets of wheels, but I'm not sure that is a decent price.

 

I'm Surprised He Found A Complete H.O. Air Cleaner System,To Try And Make It Look Like An L69.

 

I have seen only a few online. According to the 1985 Pontiac book, I'm guessing it was possible:

 

Yea, I've seen that too but this seller goes well beyond calling it just "high output" as a matter of opinion on the engine's strength. He's square into the territory of calling it a rare car (1 of 1 if it's an '85 L69 with auto since common wisdom is that the L69 only came with a manual that year). He specifically says it's an L69 car, and tries to say that the VIN doesn't support that because it's an early model. Entirely different situation.

 

I don't doubt that a T/A could have standard interior in '85. Probably not many around but they could have it. I don't believe custom interior was standard with the Trans Am.

 

Nice! This is the stuff I was looking for. Thank you. As to price, L69 H.O. would command a definite premium, especially for an '85 where the option is rare.

 

Some haven't seen any or many and so that was addressing that point to clear one thing up. My understanding is the custom seats was part of a package that was Available but not Standard on the T/A in 1985 as you say.

Some of the things he noted, which he said he was told by dealerships for one source, just aren't right. From the H.O. exhaust tips to the red Firebird emblem being part of the H.O. package.

 

Here is a true L69 engine bay. You can see that there is no fan shroud to speak of. Also seen is the proper a/c line connecting to the receiver-drier.

 

Here is a photo of an actual L69 engine bay. You can see that the fan shroud is non existent. Also the a/c line to the receiver-drier is the correct type.

 

Here is a photo of an actual L69 engine bay. You can see that there are some differences. In 1985 the LG4 engine was basically the same as the L69 in compression. The L69 had bigger exhaust manifolds and the carburetion was different. The short block was basically the same.

 

I think the image you're wanting to post simply refuses to let itself be put on the board....

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time with the photo posting.

 

It can be infuriating at times, I've found the simplest way is to just save the photo and upload it as an attachment, if that helps

 

The VIN code does not lie. Period. EVER. He is LYING. Whether he knows it or not, whether he believes it or not, whether he did that to the car himself or not, or maybe whether the seller that sold it to HIM lied to HIM first; he's LYING.

The thing about "early year" is typical of the LIES he is telling. The 1st year of the L69 was 83; the last was 86; there were VERY FEW in 85, that being the 1st year of TPI, which became the "performance" upgrade starting that year. AFAIK ALL 85 L69 cars came with the T-5, which makes the SECOND lie.

Which of course, calls into question EVERY OTHER WORD out of his mouth. Once you've uncovered the first lie, and then even a SECOND one that's just as flagrant, it's anybody's guess how many others are waiting in the background, that you haven't come across yet.

There are 2 rules about evaluating used cars:

1. If you can't see it with your own eyes, it doesn't exist. If there's no documentation, it didn't happen. If it matters to you, LOOK AT IT, BEFORE buying it; not, "he told me it was a ...., did I get a good deal?" after the fact, only to discover it was A LIE.
2. In case you can't verify what you see when you look at the car, see Rule #1. No matter how adamantly the seller insists, no matter how much you want to believe it, no matter how great of a find it would make the car, no matter no matter no matter no matter: Rule #1.

OK, pop quiz time:

Q: How can you tell a used-car seller is lying?
A: His lips are moving (keyboard is typing etc.)

Q: How can you tell a used-car seller is stabbing you in the back?
A: He's smiling

I've been told I have "trust issues". I like to think of it the OTHER way around: people that fall for lies like you're being told about that car, are the ones with a "trust issue". We usually call that particular issue "gullible". Professional cons call such a person "an easy mark".

If he's including the L69 lie in his pricing scheme, walk away if he won't back off of it. Don't let him sodomize you.

 

Some sound advice from Sofakingdom. I agree that the VIN does not lie. Keeping that in mind, just consider the car an LG4 with some "extras". It has been very well taken care of, there is no doubt about that. I noticed that the front side marker lenses have been swapped out for clear pieces. Not a big detractor but I noticed. There are two sets of wheels which come with the car and that is a plus. I don't think the car is worth the asking price but the seller is open to offers. I am not a fan of the vinyl interior but it is in great condition and a most unique feature. If I were to purchase this T/A, I would offer $5500 which seems fair to me. I bought my car with 57k miles on it and mechanically unmolested for $2k, and it needs paint and upholstery. I looked for two years to find one in the blue color I wanted. This car being silver makes it a bit rare in my book as I haven't seen any like that. So, accept it for what it is. If the seller keeps pushing the L69 story and wants that price, he may be holding onto it for awhile or will find a buyer who knows nothing about thirdgens.

 

Haha! Put bluntly but good points. I also don't believe this is an L69 car. They weren't available with the automatic that year and the VIN story makes no sense because there was a separate code for the L69 in 1984. So they'd have used that same code here if the car got an L69. The vinyl standard interior may be rare but it was still standard, so an '85 T/A could have it. Add all that to the fact that the motor/engine bay has LG4 components and, yeah, it's pretty clear.

I'm not as inclined to give the seller a pass. Even if a prior owner told him that, and he fell for it, he seems to have done enough research to know what an L69 is and isn't. He's definitely including the L69 in the pricing. An LG4/auto in the same shape/mileage is probably 5-6k. He wants close to 10k.

 

I am pretty sure you can get the L69 special order as long as it was available for the Monte SS that would be 1988.