i am going to look at an 87 gta this weekend, what rpo code or vin should i look for to make sure it is a real gta and not a clone ... owner says it is a rust free tpi 5.7 with 700r4 ... also it is said that it ran until it was broken into and the radio was taken from it ... any thoughts on that one ... no clue if vats was an option in 87 or if it has it if it was, but would anything from the vats be located near the radio that could have been ripped out at that time ... if this is in the wrong place, please relocate it for me, mod

 

Nothing in the VIN.

RPO code is Y84 if memory serves. Like all RPOs, if it has it, it IS, no matter what else you do or don't see; if it doesn't, it's NOT, no matter what else is attached to the car.

 

No VATS until '89.

 

88

VATS (Vehicle Anti Theft System) was introduced by GM on the 1986 Corvette because the Corvette had become the number
one target of car thieves. Corvette thefts dropped so impressively after VATS was implemented that GM expanded the system
in 1988 to the Camaro, Firebird, and Cadillac Seville. Before long, VATS was standard equipment on all Cadillac vehicles and
on many other Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile vehicles. As the system was added to more vehicles, GM began
using the terms “PASSkey-1” and “PASSkey-2” as more descriptive names for the system. From the locksmith’s point of view,
there is no funmore infoctional difference between VATS and PASSkey-1 or PASSkey-2, and most technicians still refer to the system
simply as VATS.

 

Hmmm...guess the Camaro White Book is wrong then. Oh well.

 

 

May not exactly be wrong. Camaros, which I'm guessing is the main topic of the book, did get them starting in 1989. But GTAs got them a year earlier (1988).

 

Camaro got VATS in 1989. The Firebirds had it in 1988.

 

Come on Scott Firebirds and Trans Ams didn't get them in 1988. GTAs did!

 

Yup, just a GTA thing in 1988...

 

The VIN will tell you if its a legitimate GTA or not. I am certain Car Proof tells you what model it is. But I believe that is only for Canada. I would find a trust worthy company and see what running the VIN through them will tell you. You could also get the VIN and simply call GM and they will be able to tell you

 

Do not trust sources that don't have access to GM's records to retrieve the RPO codes for a VIN. That rules out a lot of places. The Trans Am and GTA shared the 1G2FW prefix and so a lot of those online sites label the car as a Trans Am / GTA when it could be a Trans Am only. Just as the Firebird and Formula share the same 1G2FS prefix with the same sites labeling the car a Formula when it could just be a base Firebird.

 

Some features of a GTA are no fender vents, the badges, the map pocket will say GTA, the center section between the tail lights is gold and it will have ultima style seats, the deluxe door panels. If the car is complete, to my understanding all of these things should be there. The steering wheel controls did not come out until 1988 as did the VATS system.

The GTA source page gives you a lot of information about the topic.

All of those features could be added on, but as complete GTA (minus the radio of course in your case) will have all these things. Please someone chime in if I am wrong.

 

Now that actually is interesting. Strange that it was only available on one model, but a year early nonetheless.

 

Sounds like they were "experimenting" with the "new" "advanced" feature. Big whoop.

"GTA" is not contained in the VIN. Other than, if somebody has a data dump, and can match VINs against RPO lists. Compnine has such a dump but it's only partial, far from complete.

Meanwhile, if your car has Y84, it's a GTA. If it doesn't, it's not. PERIOD. PARAGRAPH. END OF STORY.

 

I was being generic. I didn't specify IROC-Zs or Trans Ams. I mentioned that Camaros got the VATS in 1989 and Firebirds got it in 1988. Now what model of Firebird, that was not mentioned.

 

y84 is what i will be looking for then ... thanks a bunch ... if i get it ill put up some pics ... someone spray bombed it flat black, was white ... i will try to get the black off till i can get paint on it

 

Y84 code is the be-all, end-all for a GTA. As to the VATS deal, the system was phased in during December 1987 by the week. 1st week: 50 cars, 2nd week: 100 cars, after 12/21/87: all GTA were built with the option.

 

well, it was a sad day for me, once again i got my hopes up ... at 41 years old you would think i would learn ... never got as far as looking for rust, wires under the hood and dash were hacked up ... i expected ones around the stereo to be a mess, but ones under the column were hacked and bolted to it ... broke my heart to walk away, but i just couldnt do it

 

That's disappointing. But unless you are really in love with that particular car, it may be better to walk away than to buy into a headache.

 

well, they called me about the gta again, offered it to me for $600 ... dont think i can pass that up, going to pick it up thursday morning ... have a lot of reading to do i guess, and ill be asking a ton of tpi questions about wiring and "what is this part" ... lol

 

Get out of this if you can. A non running, hacked up, rusted GTA is a parts car.


In the end, it's more economical to buy a $6000 GTA than a $600 GTA if you plan on using it.

 

Do you REALLY want to put yourself through this mess and keep trying to make it right and running? Nothing but headaches. One thing leads to another and on and on.

Get the car for a parts car. But find you a nice RUNNING non hacked up GTA from someone else. You will be SOOOOO much further ahead!!!!!!!!

 

I have to agree. The less you pay now, the more you will pay later. Ask me how I know..

 

I bought an no rust 1987 Formula for $1200 that ran but spun #4 & #8 main bearing (had piston slap), and by the time I got done with the interior, paint engine & Trans I had $7000 into it and I did ALL the work myself, I rebuilt the engine, rebuilt the trans, recovered the seats and painted the car by myself with the help of my dad.

I could have bought a perfectly good Formula 350 for that at the time...

What I did gain was the knowledge and know-how of how the car worked. But if you are not a consistent finisher of projects I would highly recommend getting a car done already.

$30,000 later... I should have bought a Firehawk with the money I have into a $5000 car. But they never made a Yellow Firehawk...

John

 

If you're buying a car for a looooong term project like the one mentioned here, and aren't in a hurry to drive it anytime soon as in DD, and you have the disposable income and somewhat skill and knowledge to completely go through the car like okfoz did with his, then sure, go for it and save the bird.

Just remember a few of many things.......TIME, PATIENCE, AND A LOT OF MONEY.

 

going to drop a carb and vac dist on it for right now ... will deal with the tpi wiring and things like that after i collect parts ... going to get a complete harness for under the hood for it and collect everything i need from there ... other than the stereo trim plate and the console lid, the inside is nice ... i dont care if if it stays factory or not just want to get another 3rd gen for now, so i can restore the iroc ... so for $600 i think it will be ok ... guess i will see

 

If and when you get it and you need a harness or parts of a harness pm me I have one from my 88. I could even go through it and what not and clean it up for you if you want. I also have an 89 prom and ecm with the coldstart delete ( csi clogs). Once again see what you have and what you need.

I agree that you need the time and money and resources and skill ofcourse. And what everyone says about spending...it's true. You may not spend as much as they did, depends on what shape it is in. Definitely if you have the resources ... Save it. Especially if it is a GTA.

 

One thing you can consider doing is un-wire the entire engine compartment. It is not too hard to do, I would think you could completely get the wiring harness out, check all of the connections, put new wire loom on it, and re-install everything in about a weekend. The biggest pain is the starter wires, and the couple of wires that go to the side of the block that are hard to reach...

Start with the ECM and push the wires through the opening above the kick panel on the passenger side and then Just follow it around until you get it out. It was not too hard to do, and things kind of go back to the way they should be all on their own if you paid attention when taking it apart....

The good thing is you can pull on connections and test wires to make sure there is continuity... Most of it is obvious to where it goes...

Note, when you re-loom your wires, do them ONE LOOM AT A TIME, do not completely remove ALL of the looms at one time and try to figure out how to get it back together. First thing I did after I got it completely out was to check continuity on everything to make sure the ECM was getting signals. Then I did one section, pulled any tape off that was knarly and then reloomed it. By the time I got done it looked like brand new...

I would also take the time to clean up any dirt or grime under the hood to get that off so when you put it back together it looks nice and clean.

I will warn you that on the drivers side by the brake booster there is another wire harness coming out. I believe that is mostly for the body, like the headlights, horns, blower motor IIRC & some other odds and ends... I do not remember anything that was engine related coming out of there, but I could be wrong. I did not pull that harness when I swapped from LG4 to TPI...

Just a thought.

 

got it home today ... lights on the outside all work, heater blower works, windows work ... power mirrors do not work ... odd thing to me is when i turn the key nothing happens, but the brake light comes on. dont they do they if you try to start them in gear, it is an auto btw ... going to look into it more this weekend when i am off ... could i get lucky and it have a bad nss?

 

The Brake warning light supposed to come on in Start position as a bulb check feature. Try shifting into neutral and then try the starter or try jiggling the shifter in neutral or park and trying the starter.

 

The power mirrors should be basically contained to all by themselves. There is the switch, wires, and mirrors. It is a pretty simple system mind you. Might be a fuse, or it could be not plugged into the power block on the drivers side above the kick panel. (IIRC the power seats and the power mirrors are plugged into a panel behind the LH kick panel but up a little bit, you will have to get on your back and look up for this one.)

The not starting thing...
Could be a bad starter, bad solenoid, bad shifter switch and it thinks you are in gear, bad relay, or a broken or cut wire, could be one or two things, I would check the fusible links that connect to the starter (under the car unfortunately). Just pull on them, if they are corroded, they would fall apart, then splice in new ones. Usually it will turn over if it is a bad fusible link, but it will not run. Could even be no power to the starter... I cannot remember if it grounds through the block or not. I think it does.

The good news is it is not sometimes working, nothing worse that trying to troubleshoot a wiring issue that works half the time, only to learn you fixed nothing.

Some questions for you.
When you turn it over
1) Do the lights dim?
2) do you hear any noises, clicks, etc...


Good luck

 

Of course you could turn the key to the start position and start shifting the shifter to see if it catches anywhere...

 

it seems to do nothing at all when the key is turned to start, other than turn the brake light in the dash on and move the temp gauge ... i have not had any time to look at it yet, just got it today ... i did try moving the shifter with the key in start and got nothing ... this is the reason i was thinking maybe some lose wires to the nss and mirrors, the car has not turned over at all after the radio was stolen out of it. it was just yanked out, and the wires to the amp were ran under the console where those are ... fingers are crossed, but i am not hopeful ... also, someone has removed the sticker with the rpo codes, so i have no clue what it came with factory, but it has everything a gta should have so far

 

well, its not the nss, i can see voltage drop and lights dim when key is turned to start in neutral ... when i get to work on it this weekend, i will start a new thread in the right spot, with the back story, pics and updates ... bit of good news, i could hear the fuel pump prime ... with the old gas in it i am mixed on my feelings about that though ... lol ... one more quick thing ... is the purple wire from the nss the same purple one going to the starter?

 

If the radio was stolen the wiring under the hush panel might also have been tampered wirh. First off pull down the hush panel and take off the two nuts holding it in place than slowly lower it. Not being able to shift could be a park lock cable. No being able to start could be an issue with wiring. When they try to steal our cars they typically cut the yellow wire that is about 12 gauge. If this is cut then the car will not start as this is the starting circuit.

 

shifter moves fine ... just no crank ... no chance yet to get under it to see how the starter is wired, or to try to "jump" the starter ... when i turn the key to start, the volts do drop a little, and the dash lights do dim a little ... i will know more tomorrow, as i have the day off and will be able to spend some time with it ... going to be hard to check power to the purple wire on the starter alone though, malbe i can get someone to hit the key for me

 

Before you do hat just pull the hush panel from the drivers side of the fash and take a peak. Who knows if that doesn't pan out then you might also check and see the battery bolts. One time mine were so bad it caused a no start even though I got power throughout the car. And that volt drop could also mean the starter.
Get someone's to crank and tap it with a hammer.

 

hush panel is already down, starter makes no sound at all and the battery is tight and clean ... going out now to get started on it ... see what i can find out ... wish me luck ... lol

 

if anyone was wondering, it was just a bad starter, fired right up ... man she sounds good ... wires under the hood that were cut were an aftermarket fan switch ... i am wet, muddy and cold, but i have a running tuned port 350 gta

 

That's great! Congrats.

 

I was starting to wonder... Congrats!