Craig Jackson, Chairman and CEO of Barrett-Jackson Auctions live from SEMA-Las Vegas last night discussing the future of collector cars. Also on stage are car chaser Wayne Carrini and Ray Everham from AmeriCarna and NASCAR fame.

 

That guy needs to STFU. At least until I finish my projects. I don't need that jackhole artificially inflating the market. Sure it's great if you're selling, or in the business of making a profit off of selling, but if you're actively involved restoring these cars, it's hellish when you have to compete with the Hawaiian shirt gray hair crowd for parts. The only upside is potentially better resto parts at better prices could possibly come around.
That crowd can keep the respect, I don't really want to get priced out of my own cars.

Not joking.

 

The only reason I have my car is because I could afford it. I'm keeping it running and replacing worn/broken things because parts are cheap. I like that our cars are getting more respect, but I don't want to be priced out of my car either. I'm with you Drew!

 

What's hot to him, is certainly important (to him), but not me... I buy what I buy, because.


WGAF what someone else likes. Do you like it? Do you want it? Can you afford it? Then that's all that matters...

 

Wayne Carrini is only interested in pre 1930 spaghetti cars and garbage ive never heard of or any red blooded blue collar American could care less about.I cant believe anybody would even watch his show. Barrett Jackson has made every dumb a$$ with a semi-classic car think they are sitting on a gold mine. Definitely drove the prices up.

 

He's right on point - these are the next ones to jump.

Buy them now while you can.

 

Agreed. I have seen an increase over the summer with guys advertising Z28 and Irocs with what they describe as "low mileage", 100,000km as an example, and asking 19k.....

I had time today and did a search of Camaros/Firebirds/Trans Am from 82-92 for sale across Canada . I found it interesting that there must be a 6:1 or 10:1 ratio of Mustang Fox bodies for sale as compared to our third gens.

Enjoy your cars as much as you can, but I agree they are on the way up so look after them.

 

You're not wrong to have that reaction. I bought my '69 Chevelle SS in 1992. At 23 years old that car was already noted as collectible but they were still affordable in the same light that a clean IROC was just a few years ago. I watched with interest, then with horror, as Chevelles and other muscle cars went through roof in the early 2000s. I say horror as it put the price of good used parts through the roof too. Yes, the aftermarket came through but often missing the mark on quality.

If there is a silver lining in comparison to the 60s muscle cars I think there were a larger number of 3rd gens/year than 1st gens made and the notion of collectability was known well enough that some people kept better car of these cars than some previous generations. They are still out there no question.

Many people say 3rd gens will never attain that of the 1st gens. I think that is true to a point. What I wonder about, from a demand perspective: in the 60s there were a lot of different muscle cars to be interested in. In the 80s it was more limited -so that might concentrate a smaller demand to near the same scale.

 

Very interesting point, definitely not as much variety as the muscle car era. So watching Barrett Jackson 10-20 years from now will be boring....camaro, mustang, mustang, Trans Am, Iroc, mustang, mustang, mustang.......hahaha

 

I’m caught in the middle on this topic. I can see everyone’s concern regarding parts and prices going up. But on the other hand I feel like it’s long over due that our cars get the respect they deserve in the classic car world. I’m tired of hearing the mullit jokes or turd gen BS! These cars our awesome and really fun to drive! Eventually this may even force companies to make more parts for looks and performance. And if one day I decide to sell my baby at least I know I can get top dollar.. why not!?

 

Well, I hope it isn't that thin! haha B/J will make sure to pump up other cars to keep the interest level up.

I suspect that G body cars will come into their own about 5 years after Zs and Stangs peak. Obviously GNs are already up there. Regal Ttypes too I guess. But there is 442s, Cutlass, Monte SS, Grand Prix. Also there are the Sy/Ty rigs that I think will fetch bigger coin eventually, nice ones are already 20k ish. XR7s and S/C Tbirds.... there are a handful tho most will be supporting cast instead of stars. I think Jeeps/XJs, Blazers/Yukons will continue to have a following. I am sure there must be some I forget... Supras, CRXs.... But no Chryslers, that'd just be wrong

 

There was an article in Forbes and another magazine saying “IROC Camaros” and Grand Nationals are the next big collector car..

I’m glad I bought low!

It’s annoying because where have these people with money been? These have always been my favorite cars.. all of the sudden Wall Street collectors think they are cool and start snatching them up? On Monday they are weird, old cars and on Tuesday they are cool and everyone should ****** them up?

Crazy how that works..

 

Watching BJ for the last 10 years has already been boring. Don't know how people can sit and watch that garbage. The narrators are annoying, the cars are unattainable, the buyers aren't real car enthusiasts. It's like a fine art auction, except they're buying and selling overpriced cars.

The thirdgens that will actually bring the big bucks are the thousands that have sat in collections, in climate controlled storage. The Iroc that has been driven daily will take many years to appreciate much. Yeah, the values are going up, but not in any way that is good for the community here. The only people who will profit will be those exiting the hobby. Yeah, you will maybe be able to get a bit more out of the car, but anyone looking to buy, has to pay more.

 

IMO It will be a mixed bag and a different kind of market going forward. The early third generation cars will remain affordable while the later cars will attain collector status. The part that is different is about the same time the 80's cars take off(with newer collectors) the ever popular 60's cars will dump on the market as the older collectors age and exit the hobby.

What you guys should know: The typical older collector still has pretty much zero interest in the cars from the 80's.

The current IROC buyer on the other hand is a well heeled guy in his late 40's to early 50's who like the rest of us sees the car as a nostalgic way to "hang on".

This is little different than what happened with the gen 2 cars 15-20 years ago and that body had an 11 year model year run.

Stopping this is like stopping the aging process.

Eventually even basic cars will suffer because they will get purchased for parts to sell to people who are restoring. When the salvage parts dry up then the quality restoration market will follow.

As to Craig, he is not attempting to drive the market here, he is responding to what the market is telling the Auction company when he gets calls inquiring about what will be at the next auctions-meaning he is responding to the market.

I know Craig, and I know Wayne too. Its true about Wayne, he is more likely to like a 1950's micro car. Craig is a businessman and a car collector. If a day two Fiero is what people wanted than that would be what he would tell you.

Here is the upside... Gen 4 is still taking a big $$$ nap and may last a while due to the body style and the quality of current engines found in gen 5.

 

[QUOTE=
The thirdgens that will actually bring the big bucks are the thousands that have sat in collections, in climate controlled storage. The Iroc that has been driven daily will take many years to appreciate much. Yeah, the values are going up, but not in any way that is good for the community here. The only people who will profit will be those exiting the hobby. Yeah, you will maybe be able to get a bit more out of the car, but anyone looking to buy, has to pay more.[/QUOTE]

Truer words were never spoken!!
I got into these cars for my love of them and best of all I could afford one. I for one hope you are right Drew and 10 yrs from now the DD's will still be affordable to people like me who can't afford a 20k starter car. Cudos to you all who have those low mile all original collectors, you will profit from those. But for the rest of us who love to drive and wrench on these cars and not care about miles, I hope there are enough out there to keep that side of the hobby affordable.

So Sport that hair cut that resembles the fish, wear the turd gen moniker proud and blast Van Halen Fair Warning from the speakers and maybe that will be enough to keep the Gray Hair Hawaiian shirts guys far away!

 

Agreed with your first part. There will soon be a BUNCH of cars from the 40sand 50s which few will pay big bucks. Not enough interest for the coming supply.

late 60s cars are pretty safe bets, still. Early 60s, not so sure. Ask if anyone under 40 cares, and that's probably your answer.


To your other point, who cares about a typical (and you must mean, 70-80 year old guy) collector caring about 80s cars?

They do care about some, but have overlooked other interesting ones.
Biggest issue with 80s cars will be some electronics and small parts availability over time. And 90s cars, even tougher. But God help 2000+ cars. Disposable.

My 2c

 

He's right, but he's only stating the obvious. The bogey for what's desirable keeps moving. Ask guys in their 80s and 90s trying to sell the Model Ts and As that they restored 20 and 30 years ago. Demand for those cars is no where near what it used to be.

 

Good point..

Cars go through stages from what I see

1985-1990 “everyone wanted one” (prices high)

1991-1996 “those cars are for Italian Ret@rds Out Cruisin” (prices level)

1996-2002 “4th gen are way faster than those old rickity cars” (prices drop)

2002-2005 “Hybrids, SUVs, and Dodge cars are cool” (prices super low)

2006-2017 “Remember IROCs? I’m gonna go buy one!” (Prices rebound big)

Future??
2017-2022 “Low inventory and turns heads.. nostalgia” (prices up more)

2022-2030 “driverless cars” (prices stable, still interest in cars)

2030-???? “Government prohibits driver cars” (prices drop huge)

2057 missed the boat on selling high by quite a bit..

Once the car is so old the generation that remembers them is disappearing, you missed the boat on selling..

 

I wonder in the future when cars are illegal if people will have to build private roads to drive then on.. Gasoline and Gas stations will be gone too.. it will be a sad time..

 

I started a thread about that a few months back. My question was if the values of cars followed a double bell curve/sine wave. The cars leave the factory and are desirable. Years pass and people loose interest but enough time passes and people start to regain interest. More years pass and the owners, the ones that bought them during their return to popularity, begin to die or loose the ability to drive and the market is saturated again with these cars.

When I go to car shows with the 30s/40s/50s cars I see that the owners all are mostly late sixties and older. Younger guys like me appreciate those cars, but I haven't met anyone under 50 that would pay the asking price of one of those cars. Our interests are elsewhere.

 

What that guy says may influence the selling price of these cars at his auctions or at classic car dealerships but I don't see it having any real effect on private sales. His world is ultra low miles, show room condition or professional restoration. He and his clientele have no interest in 50K mile weekend cruisers in good condition, not at this point at least.

Back ten years ago I was looking at mid 70s to mid 80s corvettes to buy. Most were priced according to condition and were a fair depiction of the market. There was one that I viewed from a guy who was not a real car guy, he was asking almost 5K more than it was worth-- we're talking the doors had separated and the interior was just worn to death. Even after politely explaining what was wrong with the car and what it would take to restore it he wouldn't budge on his price and would only tell me that these cars were getting more expensive, thus justifying the price. That car sat for sale until I lost interest in following it.

 

Be that as it may, we already have too much attention from the collecting and hording crowd for my tastes. Go look at Ebay for NOS parts. People are full retard on items that aren't even correct OE replacements. Other people go to Ebay or Hawks to get an idea what a part they're thinking about selling is worth, and get some cockamamie idea based on artificial inflation. So their part has to be worth at least a fraction of that new part, right? That process is already happening.

The same goes for project cars, and parts cars... Imagine someone t-bones your keeper, or a natural disaster or fire destroys your car in storage. You go out to try to find a similar car only to find that the prices have ballooned, and you can't even touch a rusted out heap of trash for what you paid a decade earlier.

There's just not much good that can come from the values going up. Let that crowd stick to the stuff they've already ruined for everyone else.

 

It'd be nice if some of the inflated stuff crashes back down... I'd like to have a driver quality 60's muscle car or two at some point.

 

I wonder if Jackson has a barn full of pristine IROCs waiting for the market to go up? But I just bought a pair of new park lights for mine, long search to find a pair at anything reasonable. Seems like everything I saw was GM labelled (not NOS) and $150 for the pair. Good old days are going away fast maybe.

 

Patience Kurt, it's coming.

 

the capitalist pig in me is perversely hoping these cars do shoot up in value. Takes the edge off of the many thousands i've thrown at it...

 

I think there is a chance that the 80s cars could peak soon and the 90s cars will be sought after by Milennials.. noticed a lot of the 90s cars in a lot of car collector’s “hot” lists..

 

I looked up the term millennial the other day and couldn't believe I was classified as one. I am 31years old and find that I differ so much from many of the complaints you hear about millennials. I've heard several times that I'm "just a millennial" so I had to look up the age group. 1980-current. Maybe I grew up different? For those of you old enough to have children who are considered millennials, do they fit the description? That may be a private message kind of response from you as to not clutter and take away from our car enthusiast forum.

Back on topic. The market will change according to what the buyers interests are. Those interests will be determined by what the car they remember being as the car to have from their teenage and young adult years. Listen to any story from the older generation who owned those 60s and 70s cars,. They either owned those cars, had a friend who had one, or wished they had one back then.

 

This is from a Gun related forum. The interest in these cars is clearly growing beyond the normal interest groups.

It is a good read with pictures:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/...070706/?page=1

 

LOL Read that thread yesterday. Maybe the tone has changed in 24 hours, but it was largely negative, touching on all the cliche'd complaints that have been repeated again and again for the last 30 years. If anything the impression I got from the ARFcom discussion is that a vocal majority still view thirdgens as trailer trash garbage.

 

Drew,

What I picked up on here is the absence of peer pressure to even enter into the discussion.

AR-15 General discussion is not Yellow Bullet but it is close in the nastyness when the thread participants do not agree.

Also absent is the shaming of the OP for starting the thread. Yes there are the Mustang guys running the typical personal attack (owner typecast reminders), which if you were there you will know that since the Mustang was butt-ugly in the 80's the Mustang guys made the criticism of the Third gen and the IROC about its owners-trailer park, poor, Hillbilly, hair, ethnic, (etc) and have effectively typecast ownership of these cars simply because at the time they could not bash the looks, the skid-pad numbers, or the performance of the actual cars.

The post that stands out is the politically incorrect discussion where a thread participant pointed out that the TPI cars "stayed right with the earlier LT-1 cars".

You know on most forums where 302's and 350 LT-1 cars are discussed simply swerving into the truth will likely cause you to get flamed by the early guys... But you know what? It is the truth. I lived it and I was there.

I own a 70 Z-28 today and have owned and driven plenty of bone stock 302 Z/28's -- hard. When I say "hard" that is exactly how you had to drive them to make them run. They are different animals but in a stock configuration the truth is that performance parity (within driver error) was reached already in 1983 with the HO.