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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
Baffled gas tank with swinging pickup to prevent fuel starvation on corners
750 miles. $52k.
IDK, it's nice, but that color combo... That wasted car. That price tag. Just strikes me as silly from start to finish, but figured someone would enjoy seeing it, or laughing at the ad, either way...
Ok, so if we take away the 'rare' collector nature of the "LE 1" (sic) package, and the extraordinarily low mileage, what is it really? It's an appliance white Camaro with eye-searing red interior, no options, no cool Iroc decals, no t-tops, no A/C. This one isn't on anyone's grail list.
For the money, a person could probably find 4 VERY NICE thirdgens, that could actually be enjoyed on the road, rather than hidden away in a garage, polished with a diaper and referred to as "My precious!".
I just don't see the point. Pay out the *** so the car can own you. You don't dare actually drive the thing, because the value is in the low miles and pristine condition.
On a related note, it sure does seem like there are a TON of low mile thirdgens tucked away. Like a bunch of people read that stupid magazine article and thought they could buy one, pickle it, and in 30 years sell it and buy a private island. As time passes and more and more of them come out of storage for resale, I wouldn't be surprised to actually see the values come down again.
I think the cars in general are going up and will go up. It’s weird to me how a lot of the preserved cars are undesirable in some way. It’s almost like the ones that were preserved were “easy” to not drive..
A lot of the under 10k mile cars I see are automatic 305s with no options, some with 15” Rims and no TPI, etc.. many are an undesireable color, etc.. missing something.. a lot don’t even have power windows.. I knew a lot of thirdgen owners back in the day and never saw crank windows..
If someone ordered a car or bought one that they “really wanted” they drove it.. and those are the cars that people want now..
I have yet to see for example, a black 5.7 loaded with T-Tops in pristine showroom condition with under 10k miles..
I do think Thirdgen inventory is low and they are gaining interest and turning heads at car shows..
Thirdgens that are desirable are worth more than C4 corvettes for sure.. I do think Corvettes have an inventory problem.. most people that bought those babied them and there’s are a ton of them in good shape everywhere with lower miles. C4 vettes are so cheap!
People drove their IROCs in the winter with snow tires on Z28 Rims in my area.. no one would do that to a Corvette.. younger people bought IROCs, drove then like they were stolen for the most part, did a bunch of tasteless mods to the exterior/interior and gave the car a bad name..
Even back in the 90s my 87 IROC I had turned heads because I kept it in pristine showroom condition and people were used to seeing an 88 with red faded paint with a black cowl hood, black 92 ground effects, some crazy looking grille with foglights removed, wood panel interior with a bat mobile steering wheel, etc.. and stickers all over the rear hatch and front windshield.. the exhaust would sound like turd and it would have some insane subwoofers shaking the rear license plate.. a pristine IROC has been rare for a while..
I found that people that bought Firebirds kept them nicer. Any GTA I saw was usually kept well. Formulas were a little more toyed with, but IROCs really attracted some characters that ruined them.
When I see this car, I think “what a waste”.. it’s definitely “appliance white” and with decal delete the interior color is atrocious.. and those crank windows!
There was a 1990 blue 1LE with super low miles that sold for big money but it was metallic blue with silver decals with pristine gray interior and was a 5-speed. It looked like an IROC someone would want.. this person is probably basing their price on a car like that.. these cars can turn heads but this one does not..
I ‘d say the price is $20k too high and even at that you could find a more desirable 1LE.
To me, not all low mile cars are equal... so many of them were preserved incorrectly... corrosion on the aluminum parts under the hood... rattle can sprayed undercarriages. Touch ups / full repaints. Added some things like blackouts or strut tower braces that required drilling holes in the bumper caps or that faux wood paneling on the dash and console when new that also required drilling holes... carfax mileage discrepancies.. lots of things over the years that happened to a lot of these.
I search every day and inquire about a lot of cars. For me, repaints / touch ups, aftermarket undercoating, holes drilled in anything, etc are things that make me pass on cars. So to find one without these issues that has performance options and could be shown at MCACN with a little detailing is tough to find.
I'm not saying this car does not have some or all of these issues, I have not inquired about it. But it does have a very fresh look in the pics in terms of condition, much more so than the red DX3 90 IROC 1LE that is on hemmings right now. The red one has dented runners, terrible looking aluminum under the hood (alternator, intake manifold, etc). Sure, I'd rather the car have iroc decals and I think the 90-92 leather interior would look awesome in it... yes in red! But to me it seems like a really well preserved highest performance thirdgen Camaro and if I wasn't pursuing a different car right now I'd inquire about it and see if it could be had for a more reasonable amount. The only thing that would bother me is that the miles are so low, you'd want to keep it under 1000 miles but they really need to be used 150-200 miles a year minimum to keep things working well IMO.
ev305tpi you bring up a good point on the mileage.. you’d have to use the car a little to keep it working nice and the premium paid for having a car under 1000 miles will disappear quick.. then you have to hope the car will increase enough in general and that’s the point of this car since it’s priced and marketed for collectors. Also everything you said about any decisions a previous owner did that weren’t factory original even in the interest of preservation are right on..
I could have bought a super low mile car and didn’t because I knew I’d want to repaint, and re-do things.. and drive it!! I’d also hate to buy a car that sat at a high premium and then have to put a ton of money into it because it sat! And then not drive it!
I’d maybe buy one in the 5k-10k mile range now that I have a nice one to drive.. I don’t think I have the stomach or wallet to be a “collector”
You guys are killin' me here, I LOVE red interior on white!!!!!!!!!
But I agree with the general sentiment. -and I can appreciate a collector picking up cars like this, but it doesn't strike me as anything more than just a good looking Iroc. Which it is.... ....but still.
ev305tpi you bring up a good point on the mileage.. you’d have to use the car a little to keep it working nice and the premium paid for having a car under 1000 miles will disappear quick.. then you have to hope the car will increase enough in general and that’s the point of this car since it’s priced and marketed for collectors. Also everything you said about any decisions a previous owner did that weren’t factory original even in the interest of preservation are right on..
I could have bought a super low mile car and didn’t because I knew I’d want to repaint, and re-do things.. and drive it!! I’d also hate to buy a car that sat at a high premium and then have to put a ton of money into it because it sat! And then not drive it!
I’d maybe buy one in the 5k-10k mile range now that I have a nice one to drive.. I don’t think I have the stomach or wallet to be a “collector”
Yep!! 5-10k miles, that's my preference. Still very low miles and fresh, but completely usable and can be enjoyed
I’d like the red interior better if it had the red decals/stripes.. it’s sort of shocking to see when you open the door of a stark white car.. Black interior would look better on a white car with decal delete.. especially because the exterior is white with black accents.. I’d like it even better with red leather seats..
You guys are killin' me here, I LOVE red interior on white!!!!!!!!!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder... And my eyes were burned to a crisp when I saw the porno red interior.
Anyone else notice how the later red interiors are super bright, while the earlier red was more subdued? A flawless red interior in say a Black thirdgen, is acceptable, but white and red never did it for me. Love my Formula, hate white thirdgens in general.
Color combo is all about personal preference. I love them in white, i'd pay more for one, I think it shows the natural curves of a thirdgen the best to me. Just my opinion though. It contrasts the grilles, glass, tires, etc. I dig it! Here is one of my cars. Photo credit goes to Kurt (KMK454) @ kurtkphoto on instagram
Have you all seen the prices lately on 93 Cobras / Cobra Rs? Selling prices are way up there for low mile cars. I think it's only a matter of time for cars like this to get there.
And keep in mind that a 96 grand sport vette with the red interior is on average worth $10k more than the same car with a black interior. And those ones and BRIGHT! haha...
Love it! Color combo, DX3, everything. Price is a bit steep though, and as has been mentioned, miles might be too low for the next owner to enjoy driving it.
Have you all seen the prices lately on 93 Cobras / Cobra Rs? Selling prices are way up there for low mile cars. I think it's only a matter of time for cars like this to get there.
Apples to Oranges. The 93 Cobra is a mechanical upgrade AND cosmetic makeover from the normal 93 GT/LX. It's also the top dog of the generation, and top dog for Ford in 1993. It's not remotely a valid comparison to a thirdgen 1LE. A thirdgen 1LE isn't a Corvette, it doesn't have a unique an arguably more attractive body styling than every other Z28, it doesn't have a different engine, 17" wheels, 4 wheel discs, etc etc etc. There's a reason 93 Cobras are in demand. The 93 Cobra is on par with the 92 Heritage Z28 had GM built it like the prototypes.
ev305tpi.. your white thirdgens appear superior to me to this car..
I’m not a huge fan of white, but I will agree that it shows the headlight buckets, grille and louvers nicely.. I think the front of the car in White is especially pretty cool..
Thanks for the compnine information. Is there any kind of registry for the 1990 1LE to get the interior and exterior color combinations for the 28 cars with the L98 and stripe delete?
Thanks for the compnine information. Is there any kind of registry for the 1990 1LE to get the interior and exterior color combinations for the 28 cars with the L98 and stripe delete?
Ya back in old days there was more detailed breakdown, So either compnine no longer does that service or my account doesn't have the access to it
If it were, we'd really be in trouble. Picking apart thirdgens for sale, has been the offical national pass-time of the History/Restoration sub-forum since it's inception.
Besides I didn't post it for the roast. I posted it for the benefit of those who like the subset this car represents. I was a bit amused by the price and felt it was worth discussion. Also it happens to be yet another example of what I call "1LE hype". It's a thirdgen forum, and we're discussing thirdgens. Nothing wrong with that. If the seller of the car doesn't like the attention, he probably shouldn't be asking $52k for a 1990 Camaro without A/C, on Craigslist of all places.
Last edited by Drew; Nov 17, 2017 at 03:01 PM.
Reason: K-K-K-Ken is c-c-c-coming to k-k-k-kill me! Happens to Happens to Happens to Happens...
The car bashing rules are in place for member's cars. If a member paints his car pink with purple stripes, the rules dictate that you can't bash them for their choice in "customizing".
For the purpose of this thread, I agree with Drew. We don't usually roast, but when someone advertises a car to be blatantly something it's not, or advertises a car with sketchy descriptors, we do discuss that here to inform others of potential false advertising. Excessive pricing also brings out the questions and picking apart.
Yep!! 5-10k miles, that's my preference. Still very low miles and fresh, but completely usable and can be enjoyed
Agree. Anything less than 30k miles is great for a car this old. 5-10k is really the sweet spot. My exact problem with the ultra low mile cars is you are paying a hefty premium for a car you can't really drive. When my 1LE is done, I can drive it all I want and still probably won't put 1200 miles a year on it.
Thanks for the compnine information. Is there any kind of registry for the 1990 1LE to get the interior and exterior color combinations for the 28 cars with the L98 and stripe delete?
Here's a question just out of curiosity. Does it have a single or dual fan set up. I want to say that cars without the A/C had only a single fan set up.
Ok, so if we take away the 'rare' collector nature of the "LE 1" (sic) package, and the extraordinarily low mileage, what is it really? It's an appliance white Camaro with eye-searing red interior, no options, no cool Iroc decals, no t-tops, no A/C. This one isn't on anyone's grail list.
For the money, a person could probably find 4 VERY NICE thirdgens, that could actually be enjoyed on the road, rather than hidden away in a garage, polished with a diaper and referred to as "My precious!".
I just don't see the point. Pay out the *** so the car can own you. You don't dare actually drive the thing, because the value is in the low miles and pristine condition.
On a related note, it sure does seem like there are a TON of low mile thirdgens tucked away. Like a bunch of people read that stupid magazine article and thought they could buy one, pickle it, and in 30 years sell it and buy a private island. As time passes and more and more of them come out of storage for resale, I wouldn't be surprised to actually see the values come down again.
Price is down a bit now to $44k....are the only 1LE specific parts the fog lamp delete, (and corresponding front valance) baffled fuel tank, oil cooler and aluminum driveshaft? I was thinking you could order the bigger brakes and sway bars separately....what about the oil cooler? Thanks guys I am a newbie as you can tell!
Just the brakes. Technically, the shocks and struts, and the rear control arm bushings have different part numbers, but everything else was standard FE2 suspension or normal late TPI hardware. Most overhyped package in history.
Just the brakes. Technically, the shocks and struts, and the rear control arm bushings have different part numbers, but everything else was standard FE2 suspension or normal late TPI hardware. Most overhyped package in history.
Thank you for the response Drew. I see where the oil cooler IS a separate code, and that the valance appears identical save for the fact that one has lights and one does not. What about the gas tank? What about the aluminum driveshaft on a 1LE? Are 1LE tanks different, i.e baffled internally? What were the best brakes you could get? Weren't the rears the only difference on a 1LE from Iroc brakes? I appreciate the help. I found a 5.7 IROC with G92 and FE2 with a/c and that might be the better way to go for me.
I don't hate 1LEs. I'm just sick and tired of reading made up bullshit about them. I hate when people try to make them seem more interesting by perpetuating myths and rumors instead of facts. 1LEs would be cool if people would just shut up about them. I wouldn't even be opposed to owning one if they weren't generally overpriced, and personally I require air condition. It's non-negotiable, it's 2018. Science fiction led me to believe we'd have been to Jupiter twice by now. I refuse to believe that in 2018, a person should have to sweat while enjoying a drive.
The oil cooler is there, because it was required with the higher output 305, and the 350, it's on all thirdgens 87-up with those engines. The body parts are all identical, the 1LE just uses the fog light grill without fog lights. The baffled gas tank was 1LE specific at one point, but all the later MPFI cars (even the 3.1L V6 cars) have the baffled tank. The aluminum driveshaft was used often to save weight, you'll see it a lot on 88-89 Irocs and GTAs, and often enough on 90-92 cars when they have a lot of heavy options. All thirdgens aside from 1LE cars, came with 10.5" rotors, and single piston iron calipers in front. 1LE cars got 12" rotors and aluminum dual piston calipers. All 89-92 high output cars came with the same rear disc brakes as a 1LE car, aside from when PBR couldn't supply enough parts to meet demand and some instead got drums.
Take any later (89-up) 305 TPI 5spd/350 TPI thirdgen with the performance package (FE2 suspension, dual cats, oil cooler, better gearing), add a good set of shocks and struts, aftermarket rear control arms or just replace the bushings, and convert to virtually any front brake upgrade presently available, and you've got a car that will match or better a stock 1LE.
It's just ridiculous that they've been talked up to the point where Joe Dork Nimrod thinks one is worth $52k.
