BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

scottmoyer

Phil, for the record, you DID NOT get my car in Hemming's. I worked on that one myself and was in communication with the folks at Hemming's long before I heard of you. I have been in contact with them and the editors since 2005. They contacted me when looking for their piece on the 1st white IROC-Z that they published. I still have all of the emails and contacts associated with the years of communication with Hemming's. Now, TGO has been involved in trying to get other cars in the magazine, but I would never take credit for someone else's success. If I opened the door, great, but the success is theirs, not mine. And in this case, I will NOT give you credit for my car being published.

Also, you are still calling people names. You have referred to us as loosers, which I think you mean losers, and foolish. This isn't helping your case any.

I can't believe you're taking credit for getting my car in the magazine. I contacted the editor about a certain non 3rd gen car they did a feature on and corrected an issue they posted. When asked what I have, I sent them a quick email. From there, the editor mentioned that he'd love to do a story on my car.

Hey, here's one. Do you want to take credit for "Laid Back USA" using my car on an Officially Licensed by GM tshirt? You can't have that one either. Or all of the ebay pages that keep using pictures of my car to describe a part their selling, or any of the Camaro books that my car was in for representing the 1987 model year. Should I also thank you for the time I drove my car on the Daytona Speedway, the day of the race, and did a lap around the track behind the Official Pace Car and then I got to put my car on display in the Fan Zone for the duration of the race? Or how about the invite to put my 1993 Pace Car Camaro on turn 3 during the Indianapolis 500? Unfortunately I couldn't attend and bring the car, but I was unaware that I needed to thank you for all of my successes. Thanks, Phil.

okfoz

Phil,
It almost seems that you are the only one who needed to be moderated here. For years and years you have been a part of the community, and people were genuinely looking forward to seeing this car come to Auction. We were all excited to see how much it went for, and were genuinely happy for you.

Then... the pictures started popping up, you have gone down many tangents, trying to explain this or that from claybar residue, to whatever.

Now you are showing us pictures of you at a Concourse d'Elegance officiating (not sure what "officiating" means in the context of the job, is it a fancy name for someone who parks cars? Or does it mean you are a judge, which begs to ask, why not call it a judge?)

You are basically stating that you will no longer be lobbying for third gens to be at the Concourse event due to this thread... I assume you have this power to make decisions...

Here is what I think is happening, People had some questions, there were some questionable pictures, and you put your keyboard dukes up and started throwing keyboard punches... Now people are hitting back with more keyboard questions, and the answers given do not seem to satisfy the naysayers.

The truth is you got some pictures of the car in the questioned areas ... Unfortunately they are of poor quality, and from different angles They appear to be of the same car as the nicks on the tail light are consistent with one another, but they do not include the questionable spots on the car.

The end of the day... Most people are trying to chisel down to the truth, and when there is no longer more than one truth, only the facts will remain. We do not "hate" you, at least I don't, I do not think anyone "hates" the car, at least I don't. No one seems to be "Jealous" even though no one could be jealous of this, possibly envious, but not jealous. Unfortunately the truth remains to be an enigma.

That is where we stand.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

I agree.....well said John

CPC Norwood

steves

I can't believe this is still going on.

okfoz

Honestly I am not sure why anyone would not "like you" with that said, several of your posts came across rather abrasive... So there is that...

John

George Klass

I'm still trying to understand this.

Some pictures of previous bodywork/paint surface of the "WORLD RECORD" base IROC on FB and get posted here.

My question to you is -- Why didn't you say something like

"Wow WTF guys! That's definitely not my car, what is going on here! Why would that guy post that. I'll go snap some good close up pics ASAP and upload."

And then go take some quality pics to prove it isn't the same car. That's what I would do. I'm sure most would do the same. If the FB pictures are of a different car this could have been taken care of and dealt with pretty fast. Right?

You seemed to have taken offense when nobody was really insulting you or the car just wondering what the pics were.

Instead said car vanishes. Probably because a lot more pictures will now be taken. Security concerns... ok?

Then the clay bar residue, weird flash angles, etc etc etc to not the same car stories/excuses and to where we are now.

CPC Norwood , 01-17-2019 06:23 PM Re: 1989 IROC 344 original miles

Stunning all the sudden negativity here on display I am showing this thread to the new owners of the car to get their opinion...

Quote: Originally Posted by George Klass

New owner doesn't know how to use a computer, printer and the Internet? Lolol like he's not watching this thread...

No he is not. I just spoke to him tonight about the car

How is the guy not watching the thread. You showed it to him and "he removed the car" from BJ. You're telling me after dropping all this $$$$ he's not on here seeing what is happening?

For sure this car is now waiting for NOS or MINT tail light and any hint of overspray or body work is being carefully removed/repaired. Then we will see heavy close up pics.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

CPC Norwood

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

IMO, the moderators here do an outstanding job and I applaud them for their time and effort and congratulate
them for overseeing an outstanding forum, lots of great people here with a huge amount of expertise in everything third gen
and I'm happy to be a member here......just my

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

SteelDirigible

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure why any of this matters. The car may or may not have repaint, depending on what photos you look at and if you think they're the same car. The car is sold, so I'm not sure why the seller is so worked up about the condition. The buyer obviously isn't that bothered by it. I don't think anyone here truly CARES about the sale price, it's just a discussion of what these cars can sell for. Nobody is mad about what the sale price was. Nobody cares enough to take photos of a different car, photoshop them to show repaint, and hope that... what? they instigate the longest thread of nothing in TGO history? Doubtful. Nobody has anything to gain by doing that. The seller has nothing to gain by defending it, particularly if he knows they're false, why worry? Yet here we are. Plenty of name calling and "snarky responses". And yes, mostly by one person.

I'm curious how annoyed the buyer is to keep supplying photos back to the previous owner to try and "resolve" a pointless discussion.

I would've expected the thread to die off shortly after the sale. I would say everyone here really just has a mild interest in this individual sale of one car as an indicator of value.

scottmoyer

So, you're still throwing stones at me since I'm the moderator of this forum.

I'm not sure what threats you're trying to get across to us, but in the grand scheme of things, the 3rd gen Camaro/Firebird hasn't been monitored by the larger hobby. The 3rd gens are equal in performance to most of the 1st gens and the power/performance ratio has been going up ever since. Unlike the 1st gens that saw a major decrease in performance as of about '73/'74. Most people wanted the muscle car era cars because they were hot when the everything new wasn't. Since the rebirth of performance with our cars, my measly 225hp IROC-Z only has it's looks going for it now. Plus, the next generation of enthusiasts are interested in the imports, like the Supra or the GTR.

We all need to improve the image of our cars, and that goes for putting to rest any questions that may address the value. As we mentioned, we're all happy you sold the car for what you did. If the car has any paint work and the buyer was ok with it, then great, that's helps even more. Nobody is jealous or envious to the point of wanting to destroy this car's reputation. However, we would like to know if the car was repainted or had paint work. That's all this was about. If anything, Phil, the larger hobby will see how you've behaved here, with the name calling and skirting around the questions, and might have lost respect for you and maybe gained respect for us in knowing that the 3rd gen crowd is very detail oriented and accuracy driven.

This entire thing has been blown way out of proportion and could have easily been resolved a long time ago. No offense, but just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. We believed the car was near perfect until an opposing position was offered. All we asked for was clarification or proof to shut down the opposing position, and you went on the attack. You had many friends here and because of your name calling and treatment of us, you've lost many. But you know what? We all still think the car is cool and hope the new owner loves it. Regardless if had paint work done or not! Regardless of it's sale price! You overreacted and caused a storm that didn't need to happen.

As for the moderation of this forum, I've been doing it for many years and I can be strict or I can be relaxed. Believe it or not, the only person I thought about shutting down was you because of your violation of board rules with name calling. Nobody else violated the rules, except the few off topic pictures and comments, but they were all in response to your behavior. If I'm a bad moderator, start the impeachment process of getting me voted out.

Jbuchanan

Be nice if COTM saw this much action

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Personally, I think Scott and JT have shown an extraordinary amount of patience.

CPC Norwood

Scott,

You may have issues with exact recall, I released your selection as soon as I had approval to do so.

And I did it right here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...r-got-ink.html

I would ask you to apologize yet again, but tell you what I will simply settle for one less threat to ban me.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Just trying to lighten things up a little here.....you gotta admit this one is funny......

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

scottmoyer

What? I'm supposed to acknowledge that you had anything to do with my car being in Hemming's because you started a post on TGO saying that I was in the magazine? I don't get it. What did you do other than tell everyone on TGO that I was in the magazine? And you did so because I didn't have my copy yet. Do you need credit for this? Seriously? If so, then you do need help! Thanks for letting everyone know I got ink in Hemming's. I couldn't have done it without your help.

Where do you see any threats to ban you? I have not seen any "threats" or talk of banning you. Your problem appears to be that you see things in your own world differently than others see it. You also claimed that we called you a crook, but I couldn't find that, or anything even close to that, posted anywhere. Shutting you down in this thread does not equal being banned. Can you please stop putting words in people's mouths and creating drama that isn't needed.

CPC Norwood

Scott,

At post 501

"Move on to another forum. I think you're done here".

And again at post 566.

George Klass

IT'S pretty obvious he means your reputation.... Are you serious??

Jbuchanan

I've been trying to stay out of this one but I can't help it anymore. Post# 50 is kind of funny at this point.

scottmoyer

I almost spit my Dr Pepper through my nose when I read post 50!!! Thanks. I needed that.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Yeah it's amazing what a close up pic and a flash will expose lol

scottmoyer

I went out to my 996 out of 1000 point judged IROC-Z and took two photos, one with flash and one without. The one without flash looks very good. Now, someone sabotaged my paint in the pic with the flash because all of a sudden, I have these white specs that I didn't see before and in the crevices, there is what looks like compound residue or massive amounts of accumulated dust!

I haven't washed the car in about a year, so I guess my detail rag and duster aren't getting all of the dust when I wipe it down making it appear so much worse than it really is.

George Klass

996 out of 1000 point or not, your car will NEVER be in the prestigious Hemmings CONCOURS d'ELEGANCE tho.....

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Same point I tried making earlier in the thread.....

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Agreed. Flash during the day, or Flash with already excessive lighting, will cause the same effect.

The above two quotes are the only thing I hesitate with. I've bought plenty of cars new, just never custom ordered one before. Do custom ordered vehicles still come with an MSRP sticker? Not being sarcastic, it's a serious question...

- Rob

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

okfoz

By Law, all vehicles come with a window sticker... The Automobile Disclosure act of 1958 mandated that all vehicles be sold when new with a window sticker aka Monroney Sticker. Since the 1970's the EPA has mandated Fuel Economy standards to be listed as well.

The reason is simple, you never knew what the value of the vehicle was, you just took the dealer's word for it. Which as always made for some shady vehicle markups...

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

the cars I've ordered have always come with window stickers.
I believe it's a requirement for all MFGR's to have a window sticker in order to sell the car (but does not need to actually be in the window)

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

Yes, a custom ordered car will come with a window sticker. I custom ordered a 2017 GMC Yukon Denali and it came with a window sticker.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps as a safety measure in case the customer backs out last minute, as they are normally used for bargaining on the lot, or in showroom...

- Rob

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

You must not have read the answers provided.....

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Being a painter.....what makes me cringe is that nothing was taken apart before the paint work was done. Some of that can be easily missed when looking it over, but if you ever take anything apart it will be shocking. Example..the tail lights were masked off and not removed. So if that was skipped, I can assure you that the rear spoiler, ground effects, etc were all done the same way. So if those parts were taken off, there would be more paint lines. Shame on the shop that did that. Nothing would EVER leave our shop like that

scottmoyer

Many don't know that it's actually illegal for a dealer to have a car on the lot without the Monroney sticker visible.

The Federal Automobile Information Disclosure Act, or “Price Sticker Act,” requires automobile manufacturers to place stickers containing certain information on the windows of all new cars. The Act is commonly known as the “Monroney Act,” in reference to Mike Monroney, the Act’s chief sponsor in the United States Senate. The stickers required by the Act are often called “Monroney stickers.”

The Act requires the manufacturer to affix the sticker on the windshield or side window of any new passenger car or station wagon before the car is delivered to a dealer. The Act prohibits the removal or alteration of the sticker prior to the sale of the car. Therefore, only the buyer of the car may remove the sticker.

Contents of a Monroney Sticker

The sticker must clearly and legibly state:

• The make, model, and serial or identification number of the car
• The final assembly point of the car
• The name, location, and place of business of the dealer to whom the car is to be delivered
• The name of the city or town at which the car is to be delivered to the dealer
• The method of transportation used in making delivery of the car, if the car is driven or towed from the final assembly point to the place of delivery
• The manufacturer’s suggested retail price for the car
• The manufacturer’s suggested retail price for optional equipment installed on the car
• The amount charged to the dealer for the transportation of the car to the place of delivery
• The total amount of the last three items listed above

Penalties

The Federal Automobile Information Disclosure Act provides civil and criminal penalties for violations of the Act. A manufacturer that willfully fails to comply with the Act may be fined up to $ 1,000 for each violation. A person who willfully removes or alters a Monroney sticker from a car prior to its delivery to a buyer may be fined up to $ 1,000 and imprisoned for not more than one year.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Your answers lol? Are you some sort of self appointed authority on this website? Yes, let us get back to topic so BizJetTech can continue on with his barrage of meaningless and irrelevant meme's towards the original poster that have no real substance, nor particular value, and only continues to degrade this website to onlookers just so he can giggle to himself while staring at the monitor hoping to get his long desired approval from the moderator's who are too nice to tell him to stop. Here's a tip Biz, at your age, you're supposed to take the Viagra before sex, not before logging onto thirdgen lol. Take a chill pill my man.

- Rob

okfoz

Oh snap Scott, Didn't you remove the window sticker from that Mustang when I came down in 2017???

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Thanks guys, the post above was answered from my phone, and it only picked up the last email received, which was from TransAmGTA350. Would never willingly ignore my thirdgen family...

- Rob

okfoz

At this point there is nothing serious about the discussion any more. After more than half a thousand posts we have gone from anticipation to euphoria then pondering and ultimately no one is any closer to understanding was the car repainted or not. Phil is lodged up in a small cave fearing for his life, the moderators have armed their children and dogs with fully automatic AK47s trying to ward off angry protesters, and new buyer has hired laid off secret service agents to protect himself and the car.

The tangent of window stickers, as it pertained to the car in question is just as relevant to the conversation, however it could have been started as a new thread, it is here and it has been addressed.

CPC Norwood

OKFOZ,

Here is where we are at. TGO has for the purposes of this thread become "fake news". Despite the images posted by our friend Chazman at post 558 and my complete dismantling of that narrative starting at post 589,- several trouble makers (now openly aided and assisted by the moderators) continue to operate a form of Kabuki theater in a purely political context.

You guys are caught. Period - and you know it.

Caught red handed exploiting the good name of the Barrett-Jackson Auction company by misrepresenting the physical condition of LOT 442.1 at Westworld and hosting the images here, all this despite the fact that this entire narrative was proven false starting at post 589.

As of now this shameful activity continues to run right out in the open.

I am asking you for the umteenth time. Think before you post.

BizJetTech

iTrader: (3)

Sounds to me like your the one that needs the chill pill DUDE !!
Flame away DUDE !!!

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Pics speak for themselves. It is the same car....there's no denying the proof. Flame away!

detltu

iTrader: (1)

Wow, somehow I missed this. What a roller coaster.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Seriously Phil? Why do you keep digging a deeper hole for yourself?

No one even cares about the paint anymore. Obviously the new owner doesn't. It is YOU who keeps this thread going.

George Klass

You didn't dismantle anything except your reputation. You are posting grainy close ups that don't show much.
I'm not sure what your problem is.

Very funny you think this was some conspiracy to take down the WORLD RECORD BASE IROC DECAL DELETE

CPC Norwood