I have a 1987 Camaro Z28 Iroc 305 TPI automatic transmission with 100,000 miles. Only mods are a cat delete and magnaflow muffler. Interior is a 8/10, exterior right now is a 6/10. It could use a paint job only because of chips and dings. I can do the bodywork myself though.

I have a brand new built 383 stroker I built sitting on a stand in the garage that I was going to put it but now I am having second thoughts.

Around here I would think the car would sell for about $7000 give or take. I don't plan on selling it anytime soon, but I also don't know if I will keep it forever. I always have 3-4 vehicles sitting around, all with insurance and I rotate through driving them.

I know this car isn't low mileage or in good enough shape to fetch big money. If I put the 383 motor in I will have a $7000 car with a $7000 engine. Once I do the swap then the transmission with need done, another $2000-$3000..

Unfortunately the car will still probably be only worth $7000... I can't see ever getting $14,000 for it with a modified engine.

Someone wants to buy the 383 for what I have into it...wow huh? lol.

So should I sell the 383 and leave the Z28 alone hoping with a paint job in the near future the valve creeps up, or install the motor and hope the value sky rockets. I have been modifying cars for 22 years and know you never get your money back.

 

Here are my thoughts for what they are worth.

A 305 Z28 with 100K miles in most likely never going to fetch the astronomical prices that the super low mileage cars are right now. For cars that are not extremely low mileage or super rare, I think an engine upgrade would not hurt the value at all, but in fact potentially raise it. Keep the stock motor and that way you could always swap it back if somehow 305 cars become worth a million dollars stock. I am in a similar situation as you are in that I have a 87 IROC-Z that had the stock 305 (mine was an LG4). I knew I would really enjoy the car way more with a modern drivetrain (or in your case, more power), so I made the swap. I also kept all the stock parts if I ever needed/wanted to go back to stock, but again, just don't see collectors knocking down doors to give top dollar for higher mileage 305 cars. End of the day, it is your car, do whatever you want to it to enjoy it to its full extent. Given two identical cars, one with a 383 and the other with a 305, pretty sure the 383 car will fetch more interest and price. Hopefully you are keeping the fuel injection at least, because for sure removing fuel injection for a carburetor will hurt the value more than pretty much anything you can do to the car. Again, just my opinion and it's worth exactly 2 cents.

 

C'mon, you're seasoned enough to know how this works. Car flippers and fixer uppers think about value. Car builders think about how much they can afford to spend every month.

The pennywise builder either keeps the car a long time, or downgrades it at sale and keeps the good stuff for themselves.

 

I know how that works. I just don't know too much about these car's value.

I have another car that would be worth a fortune if I left it alone. 1989 Mustang LX 5.0 with a hair under 50,000 miles and a 10/10 inside and out...too bad I installed a 535hp 408W stroker years ago and got rid of stock parts. Not that I would sell that car anyways, but if it was stock it would be worth double to triple than compared to modified.

 

Depends on what kind of modification and who did the work.
It should be common sense that an ultra-rare model or an ultra-low mileage, pristine car is worth more unmodified, but aside from that, thirdgen F-bodies ARE NOT among the "holy-grail" collectible cars that some people think they are. So do what makes you happy, but do it right...

 

Okay, what are you looking for when searching for a car to build? ---> Cheap but still in great condition. Basically a high miles car that's been cared for.

Looks like you bought exactly that. Now go play with it.

 

The 3rd gens that are currently bringing high auction prices are those that are low-mileage and all-original. There is only a finite number of such Camaros left, as evidenced by current value increases in those particular vehicles, reported here almost daily. Your car, with 100k and needing a repaint, isn't in that group. Drop-in that 383, put in a stronger trans and rear, and have some fun with the car. Don't neglect upgrade of brakes/suspension to go along with the increased horsepower.

And while I generally don't agree with modifying any 3rd gen too far from stock---other than maybe a stripped roller you picked up for a song---IMO you won't lose anything with the above-mentioned mods.

 

If you care about devaluing the car, just don't do anything that isn't reversible. I say powertrain mods are fair game since you can always put the stock stuff back in. Might be more effort in preserving the ability to do that vs ripping out everything you don't need, but that's where the value is too.

 

My input, which you can toss in the trash if you like.... I would do what you chose with that car with it being a Z28, I don't think the value will be hurt since it is needing work anyway. Just keep the original parts this time.... I have somewhat the same situation. I have an 84 Z, 76K miles, that I am going to keep stock, but will probably be flipping it in the near future. I also have an 85 Iroc L69 car with 103K miles. It is not low mileage, I drive it regularly, but would never think of swapping the motor etc, just due to what it is, even though it has more miles, but I plan to keep that car unless someone wants to pay crazy money for it..... Whatever you choose to do with it, A) it is your car, do with it as you want for YOUR enjoyment and B) I don't think that you will hurt value either way you go. Have fun, enjoy it.....it is a car and that is what it is for.

 

Ok, so pristine third gen's are bringing in serious coin lately. That happens with any desirable car. Now, think about those desirable late 60 early 70's cars that are getting more and more untouchable to the average Joe now. I can remember quite easily finding a near perfect second gen T/A, or even 1st gen Camaro, old mopars, stangs, whatever, at prices then that seemed crazy (5 7K) in the 80 and 90's. Then they started disappearing, so slowly, you didn't even notice really, until they became hard to find, rarely came across, unless it was for once again, at a price that seemed once again to high at that time (10 and 15k). Now I see the modified ones going for double that, and the pristine survivors...seems like the sky's the limit anymore. I think the pristine third gen's will continue to climb as they have, along with the tastefully, "done right", modified third gen's. I see modifies ones going for 15K or so now, which seems like a loss now, but eventually, even these will be the next 20K or 30K vehicles down the road. Great return-no, Loss over time-no. But cheaper to get in the game now-definitely. Try to buy a 1st gen now, see what 15K gets you. (Sure that is more desirable over all), but find a good 77-80 T/A starting at that price now and once again, see what that gets you. Third gens worth restoring/modifying are still out there, but you already have to look harder and that's for sure. What I think it basically comes down to when I decided to modify mine was (and remember this just an opinion based on past experiences) If I wanted a 1st gen Camaro as an example, And my budget was limited to a ok shape all original, with probably a weak engine, ugly stock hubcap wheels, puny brakes, etc. or for the same amount I could get one with say, a decent repaint with a good big block and drivetrain that has been updated and gone through, probably had the brakes and at least wheels updated. I know which one I would prefer, even though it's been "modified".

 

I'm gonna go for it.

The swap will be done as well as can be. Nothing will be cut up or deleted. It will remain fuel injected and parts are pretty much thirdgen specific.

Here is the car and engine in question:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/memb...ml#post6431884

 

In an overall general kind of way (with very specific unusual and uncommon exceptions), these cars don't have "that kind" of value. Never have, don't now, never will. As I've said over and over, it's not about THE CARS themselves; it's about THE TIME they were born into. After the mid 70s, the "car culture" that gave birth to, and continues to sustain, the "value" of GTOs, Mustangs, Camaros, the various Mopars, etc., was GONE. Disappeared. Evaporated. Ceased to exist first because of the disease of emissions controls when they were in their crude infancy, and after that the increase in the expense of operating them after the cost of petroleum products quadrupled overnight, and the coup de grace was the stoooopidity of the US car mfrs through the 70s: the "storied history" of GM/Frod/Xler, in defiance of their technical and quality inferiority to the competition driven by their denial of their their obsolescence and refusal to acknowledge their need to LEARN. Any cars that appeared after the oil price shocks from the first Arab oil embargo simply aren't part of all that "romantic" culture that went before. Just like, even though you can go to the dealership today and buy cars that will run circles around those old things, they don't occupy the same place in the mind and heart of the consumer that cars did back then. There are no songs on the radio (Spotify?) today about the 2021 equivalent of "409", GTO", Mustang", etc. Kids don't even see a driver's license as the rite of passage to adulthood and independence that it used to be. Nobody cares like they used to.

Most of the time, modifying these cars devalues BOTH the car itself, AND the parts used to modify it with. A $7000 car with a $7000 engine in it will probably bring less than $5000 on the open market. For that matter, a motor that cost $7000 to build, will probably sell for no more than half that, even unfired and without a sheet metal wrapper around it. That's just The Way It Is.

That said, that's part of their charm, to people like us. We can pick them up all day long for DIRT CHEEEEEEEEP. We get to play and enjoy our hobby without having to pay 60s muscle car prices for it.

And as well, that means that we are MORE FREE to modify, customize, etc. these cars, than people EVER WERE to do the same to "those" cars. Certainly, more free than they are today.

Resale value is NOT one of the strong points of these cars. Don't hallucinate that it ever will be, because IT WON'T. Especially not some high-mileage (let's say, above a couple hundred miles) one, that's been subjected to DECADES of daily driving, abuse, ham-handed hacks by beginners, and so forth. Unmolested prime condition time capsules are potentially of some value in the future, to museums if nothing else, but that's MANY years in the future AT BEST, and doesn't apply to 99.999% of the cars on this forum in any case. Convincing yourself that their "value" will follow the same trajectory as 1st gen F bodies and early 2nd gen, is probably as good a way to throw away money and make yourself poor, as "investing" in cryptocurrency: all you're doing, is attempting to predict which random way The Herd is going to veer off towards next. It's not about "fundamentals"; it's pure unmitigated unadulterated unvarnished SPECULATION at best, and probably doesn't even rise to that level, but instead is only wishful imagination.

If you want to modify your car, there's no "value" reason either not to, or to do so. Make your decision based on what such a thing will bring to YOUR enjoyment of the car, NOT some kind of future resale value. Enjoy the car for what it is; don't hallucinate that it will ever be something that it isn't, can't, and won't ever be.

To the point of the OP's situation, if it was me I'd put the better motor in it, in some way that doesn't irrevocably alter the car; and MAYBE keep the original motor on the shelf, in working condition, ready to reinstall and run, in case my crystal ball turns out to be wrong. Probably not, but that would be my hedge against mis-prediction.

 

I believe this is very accurately stated. In general, the worst thing you can do to the value of these cars is changing it significantly from stock. Of course now some bozo will add a post about how some friend of a friend once offered $$$$ for his highly modified thirdgen, to which I'll preemptively point to the the word "most" and slap them upside the head bringing them back to reality. I dont see people in my area gawking over the modified thirdgens. I see those cars sitting in people's yards sinking slowly into the dirt and being reclaimed by nature since the owner wont part with it for less than the 50k he thinks he has in it. However, my two mostly stock Camaros get compliments everywhere they are driven. It seems people really appreciate the 80s look and vibe now, not the hotrodded flame painted giant rimmed monsters being created by so many "enthusiasts" lately. On top of that, it seems that once guys start tinkering and changing factory stuff they end up installing what is essentially aftermarket CRAP, creating a high maintenance car that really isn't fun to drive or own. An engine swap or two later and it spends the rest of its life rusting away in someone's yard because it's just too bothersome to keep tinkering. Over the years I have come to firmly believe the best way for "most" of us to enjoy these cars is to keep them as close to stock as practical and keep them well maintained and enjoyable to drive.

I'm sure there are a few "enthusiasts" reading this who are offended. That's fine, drive your car around the block and tune it/replace parts every day. Mine is still a dependable daily driver 35+ years after it left the factory. I walk out in the morning and fire it up, then head to work completely enjoying my 1980s relic. The neighbor's minivan beats me off the stop light every time, but his kids look back and tell him "Dad, why dont you have a cool car like that?"