recently on ebay. an original owner parted with his 83 trans am. He kept it all original but for the radio, the ECM & the exhaust system. 62K original miles. original paint body engine interior everything. its so unmolested the front license plate holder holes are still factory untouched. LG4 WS4 5 spd 3.73 gears. No AC or power windows or T tops. No winters no rust. original receipt & window sticker & NY title that said "new car" in dot matrix font. Just a base model dealer inventory trans am like it came off the lot in 1983.

Now its in my hands!

i have dreams of L69, or maybe 68 ZL1 427, or LS3. But maybe its too late to do anything & i just enjoy the 150 HP factory LG4! does not the world have enough LS 3rd gens?

what to do, what to do? nothing?

:O

 

Beautiful Trans Am! Here's my opinion....It's made it 38 years without being molested. If you want to modify something, I say sell me THAT car and get a less original one to modify

 

I wouldn't mod it but if I did It would be a GEN 1 SBC-350 and period correct to atleast look factory. Id hate to see a junkyard 5.3 in a nice original car like this.
Beautiful Trans Am!

 

That car seems to be a very nice, unmolested 3rd gen, something that is becoming increasingly rare these days. If your plan is to do modifications, you might not be the right owner for that particular car. You'd do well to consider selling it, and looking for a less-original model to modify. Something to always consider in such circumstances is that they're only original once.


Your car, your choice.

 

Where do you live? I feel like you have no plan. Maybe connect with a 3rd gen owner with a hot car and get a feeling for effort, cost, results. It's fun to dream about it but the reality isn't for everybody.

Notice I didn't say what does the car think. Who cares. Cars were built for people. The car is going to decline no matter what you do. You're going to decline and maybe have a couple decades to enjoy stuff like this. Enjoy it while you can.

 

Boy that's really nice. Love that original front grille. Heck, it's your car, do what you want. I do think it would be kind of a shame to change anything cosmetically. If you made performance improvements while retaining the original look, why not?

I haven't seen many with manual windows. Quite honestly, I wish my GTA had them. Those motors are only going to run so long.

Are the steering wheel and shifter original? That wheel looks kind of thick for that era.

 

That steering wheel has an extra cover installed on it, which makes it look thick.

 

I'd keep it as is and get another car if I want extreme performance. Knowing what I know now I should have started with a C6 Z06.

 

another poster said it too, which is I have no plan. I guess what the true topic of the thread is whether a base model is now too old, too rare to upgrade. If the car had a factory L69 then this thread is not happening & the car stays original.

the car was a bit of an impulse purchase given so few original condition firebirds are left. i was of the mindset to keep her the same, & at the moment that remains the idea.

but there is this itch...the original owner said he was tempted for nearly 30 years to swap or cam or mod. But he was not a leadfoot so he left her alone.

But i do like to gas it. I am thinking period specific L69 swap if one happens at all, to keep the remaining drivetrain original. The first owner thinks i may be disappointed with an L69 & end up with a modded car for nothing. anecdotal posts on this forum show people enjoy the factory 305 HO cars.

But i think this thread is going to stifle any itch to modify the car!

 

Personally, I’d clean it up, bump the initial timing and have fun. It has a functional hood scoop?

 

Man that thing sits higher than.... well, it's really high!
I kind of dig it as is but it is your car now and can do what you want.
If it was me, I'd start with a 91-2 body and make it look like the early car. A LOT of work but

 

I would keep it original, fix what needs to be fixed. That's it. I am actually looking for an original... to keep it original. No more resto mod endless project with endless problems lol

 

the steering wheels leather was starting to check out, so the first owner threw a cover on her rather than change it. The shifter is original for sure.

and when i operated the manual windows, they were smooth like butter. Im a manual windows partisan...

 

yep the 83 LG4 has a big hole atop the air cleaner, & a device on the hood that appears to be functional. Havent revved it high enough to see her open yet.

thanks to all the posts with the kudos. in person its crazy to see how nice the first owner kept the body. you can tell its got that early 80s low quality with quarter panels not perfectly lining up to the bumper, to the doors. But its all in excellent condition! there is road rash on the hood but nothing rusted. a few dings no dents. amazing!

i just wish it had *****.

 

I say modify it. A clean car like that would be so much easier and less expensive to improve than a dilapidated basket case.
You don't have to butcher it to make it more powerful...

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...ml#post6230456
Read this. If you like what you see, then click his name and select Find more posts by...…..

 

yer on this planet fer a really short time..... u needa do with it whatever makes U happiest, dont give a fork what anybody else wants fer it, i'd molest it day 1

 

Am aware; I've been there: 1986 IROC - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

 

Gorgeous car! Congrats. As others have said, do what makes you happy.

 

What this guy said. Keep it simple and just enjoy it.

 

Keep it stock, maybe add a/c if you want to drive it.

 

Stock is incredibly boring. Yeah, it's a nice car, but it's still a low-option thirdgen F-body.
Not a collector's item and never will be. Not "sacred". You couldn't ask for a better car to modify, because it doesn't need a full restoration in the process....

 

For originality and collectability, it's relatively worthless. Mod it and have fun with it. That will give it real value: the pleasure you'll get from driving it.

I like the 82-84 darker, cherrier red, much more than the 85-92 brighter, orangier red. So keep the identity of the stock exterior, but update to modern lighting, get larger wheels, drop the suspension, and enjoy driving it. And since it has the functional hood scoop, it might be nice to build a larger, stronger carb'd or TBI engine so you can keep that feature.

 

Keep it original.

 

Yeah, or better yet, he could trade it in for a minivan...

 

What does that mean???

 

ugh...i thought this thread would kill the itch. the fact that it will never be a doug demuro car & its the ideal starting point for a super amazing machine. so true, so true. its really butting into my desire to keep it as original as possible.

i believe the right answer for me personally is to thread the needle...AKA L69 305 HO swap.

soon after buying the car but before i drove her, i happened upon an owner of an 88 monte SS with only 24K miles. Has an L69 305 HO. He let me hear the motor run before i bought it for 500 bucks. then he pulled it for his own swap of a 383. So I have a low mileage L69 sitting in a garage waiting for me to make a move.

& i could put little 5.0 liter HO decals on my hood LOL.

but the whole originality situation is giving me cold feet. still pondering!

thanks for all the awesome feedback i expected a sleepy thread.

 

It appears he was throwing a jab at you, which was uncalled for.

 

The L69 is only 15 HP more than the LG4. Don't waste your time doing that swap.
Stop concentrating on the engine. There are 3 main choke points that these cars have no matter what engine came in them from the factory.
1) exhaust, specifically the "T" pipe. Look at the merge near the starter.
2) rear end gears - go higher numerically
3) higher stall speed torque converter
Changing just these 3 things will make the car feel entirely different.

 

I would not concern myself too much with showroom stock originality with a car like that, but would keep it all era correct with the modifications: installing an upgrade SBC or applying the usual hot rod tricks to the original LG4 should be done If rear gear is steeper than 3.23,should be swapped for 3.23 or 3.42 for mild street use. If you want easy 13.x sec.performance a mild 383 could be built and installed.

 

yeah it is a worry from me & also the first owner thinks the L69 will not be worth the effort & the sacrificing of the originality. maybe beef up the cam before installing?

one more idea dropped quietly in this thread is a 350 SBC gen 1. i was thinking the goodwrench 350 engine might be the ticket. from chevrolet performance. they will warranty the motor for 2 years if it replaces the stock motor in my car. but i'd have to leave the emissions equipment on & prolly go to an expensive chevy dealer to install.

my reservation from going to any motor beyond the L69 is the tranny holding up. 300 ft lb torque max. i dont want to get into a rabbit hole of the whole drivetrain getting replaced. then its a full on restomod & i may as well shoot the moon engine wise.

 

Read the link I gave you in #16 above.
Ja85z28 kept his LG4 305 but upgraded it to better than L69 specs.
It's all there and very well detailed.

 

Those three ideas are radically different in effort, cost, and results.

If you're in central Illinois, I can show you what a high power, high performance 3rd gen Firebird is like. Fast, handles, and drives. It's a toy, not regular transportation. Fun factor is high, Cost is high, Sometimes frustration is high. Big power is easy these days but you can't just throw big power in these cars, there's a LOT of changes that need to happen. Being able to see what I had to do to the car will probably polarize your thoughts one way or the other.

The car is my hobby and I like having projects and trying to improve performance. It does take quite a bit of maintenance to keep it performing at a high level. Driving a badass car is the reward.

 

thanks on the tip! that was a very nice project for sure! but on my end, either i am keeping the original LG4 and it stays stock or i knife the originality for a better engine, but one that will not blow the stock drivetrain. and keep that hood scoop feature thats gotta stay!

wow bro thats insane...LS7 in an 89? holy cow...wish i was in your area to check her out! what you are describing is what im hoping to avoid, AKA a rabbit hole of mods. im attempting to rationalize changing an unusually original car. Heaven forbid i do any swap & the motor is a lemon or the swap shop does bad work etc...a dream can be a nightmare instead i been there with a full size chevy pickup from the 90s that never stopped demanding money.

the 3 motors in my dreams have different visions. the L69 would be respectful to the period & maintain the most originality...the 427 ZL1 idea would be a drag car...while LS3 would be programmable to be whatever im in the mood for, street track or drag. but those are just dreams.

prolly the best reason i would like to swap to the L69 is the redline. LG4 is 4500 & the L69 is 5500. I like my cars to handle, brake, pass fast, & hit 100mph with no effort. most cars i enjoy are happy over 5K RPM. In the end i am either modding the suspension to WS6 and the motor to L69 or i do nothing.

 

Well, you were talking about a ZL1 big block!

You don't need power to make the car handle/corner really well. You can make it handle way better than WS6 package. It'll take different wheels though.... no good tires left in stock sizes.... so it's going to change the look of the car.

Honestly, you're in same boat as me with a really nice car that's not worth much. Play with it, have fun with it. It won't ruin the car, it'll just be different.

 

He said this car is "incredibly boring," so I think his "get a minivan" comment was building on that.

 

Its Your car and a blank canvas paint it how you want it. so many different directions you can go but enjoy the ride - I like the LS3 option

 

I've got 30 years of thirdgen ownership.....love....loyalty....and desire to mod to make fast. My heart has me in an LS swap on an 88 Iroc right now, as I type. My brain knows that the best bet for a thirdgen would be to leave it stock. Best bet for performance is go modern. You could get a c5/6 or a 5th gen, and a keep that bird stock for less than I had in my 89, or what I'll have in my current 88. Hard to fight what the heart says though.

 

Imo, the LS mod thing is getting old. Someone even put an LS3 in Grand National. Shaking my head here.

 

Just curious, what would you sell that car for - if you were selling?

 

Performance never "gets old", and the LS swap certainly isn't as old as a 150hp LG-4.
Only reason I haven't done it is it's not in my budget...

 

I almost feel like it's played out too. Like to LT1 swaps in the '90's and early 2000's, which were slow when the LS1 came out. Now the LS1s are slow when compared to LS2/LS3 swaps. You almost need a turbo LSx nowadays.

 

I missed this the first time. I'd recommend leaving the car alone if you're not going to do the work yourself. Couple reasons:

(1) Universal truth: Nobody cares more about my junk than I do.
A shop will do the work but there is always some kind of collateral damage. You'll be a lot more careful and probably not damage your own car. I can do most things myself but not everything. I've had the best luck with shops by scoping the work to small, very defined tasks. (Example: If I want to change A-arm bushings then I'll bring them the A-arm and ask them to press out the bushing. I will not give them the car and let them do the job of removing and installing the A-arm.)

(2) Modifications (and even some kind of repairs) usually require follow up to get things sorted. That can be a real PIA if you're paying and/or relying on somebody else. They just don't have the car long enough like you do to find all the issues. Not to mention they may not have as much interest in it as you either.

Antique cars can be a lot of work to upkeep, and owners that can do most (or all) their own work usually have the best time of it.

 

No. LS drivetrains (engine + transmission + electrical integration) are the pinnacle of easy modern drivetrain swap into old cars. There won't be any more future vehicle platforms suitable as easy donor vehicles for older cars. The LS car and truck platforms are the top rung donor vehicles for DIY people.

You're definitely right about turbocharging. The high performance swap world seems to be trending toward boost builds, or big bore strokers. Aftermarket development of LS7 style top end packages has given the n/a stroker crowd 700 - 800 Hp street engines. Sounds cool until you look at the prices though.

 

Yup, after all the LS motors are gone, the next thing will be electrification. Maybe I'll have a new hobby by then.

 

Yeah, I want me one of those new 9 second Plaid Tesla cars.
I'll just have to admire it though. Not practical enough yet or affordable for my lifestyle.

 

You may need one of these if you don't have one.

 

I can't see how doing an LS swap would ever get old. Maybe if you've done a bunch of them. If you've got one 3rd gen and you're thinking of an LS, I can't think of a possible downside.

Subbing the LS in the Grand National? Interesting. Maybe the 3.8 was shot and they wanted a reliable replacement? I think there's a reliability advantage to the LS, and smoother performance. I had a '98 Trans Am. I don't think it quite matched the 0-60 times of the GN, but it had to be damn close. That car was a rocket.

 

I'd do what someone would've done to the car when it was new, maybe a new carb and a cam. Keep in mind too with engine swaps that the more power you have, the more annoying and unreliable it will be to drive the car and the less you'll use it. Keep it simple and reliable so you can enjoy the car and not throw more money into it than you have to. Headers, intake, carb, cam, and general maintenance.

 

The cool factor of the LS may certainly be old, but the performance of the mod is still every bit as good as the first day, and with the later gen3 and now gen4 LS/LT motors, I don't see how there's any downside. Now sure, there's no comparing the cool factor of a clean bone stock thirdgen to a resto mod, but for performance? LS all day.