I've picked up a clean, unmolested, low(ish) mile Formula with the intention of having a weekend cruiser that is confident in the corners when I want to push it. However before I go any farther, and modify something I really shouldn't, I'm trying to establish details/history on the car. Evidently this car has the 6 speaker system with woofers and tilting front seats. From what I've gathered, the 6 speaker option is pretty rare, but the tilting seat option is even rarer than that for 1987. Can I get a point in the right direction? I've been poking around here and www.3rdgenformula.com for information. Is there more sources/links where I can read on model breakdowns?


See the full list of RPO codes here
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ml#post6487823

 

I don’t see the 6 speaker system or tilting seat options adding much value to an 87 Formula. Performance options are much more valuable to most Thirdgen buyers. Are you thinking an 87 Formula with those options is extremely valuable?

 

No, not by any means. Just the car is complete as built, minus the obvious wear items. The running gear is a run of the mill 305 TPI, 5 speed combo. Just curiosity more than anything. It's one of the nicer ones I've ever owned.

 

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.......post up some pics and a pic of the SPID tag

 

A couple generic pictures, the interior is actually a screen shot. I'll have to get some better ones I guess.

 

Looks nice. But according to the list of RPO codes you posted in your linked thread, there's something odd about it, and it might not be completely unmolested.

The body side moldings, which you questioned in the other thread, have been removed. Hopefully that's the only form of molestation. But that would be ok, IMO, and I'd suggest leaving them OFF. They weren't an integral part of the 3rdgen design, meaning, the cars weren't designed with the moldings in mind. They're a tacked-on option, and 3rdgens look 100% better without them. B84 is the option for the molding, and B87 is apparently the option for the color of the molding, so your blue Formula should have black moldings, which will not look ideal.

That brings me to another questionable observation: without running your VIN, which you posted after I began writing this, I think your Formula might be a very early build, like, September 1986. There were "early" and "late" 1987 builds, where some major changes were made that favored the "late" builds, like mine.

The body color side moldings might've been such a change.

And your 305 TPI/5-speed combo should've featured the strongest 305, with the "L98" cam and a Borg Warner 9-bolt rear axle with 3.45 gears. Yours has a 3.08 10-bolt, so it might still have the "peanut" cammed LB9, which might've been the "early" build, using carryover parts from the 1986 model year. Does your engine have perimeter bolt valve covers or center bolt?

Regarding the Performance Sound System, nothing special. Most cars probably didn't have it, but plenty of them did.

The seats, though, I don't remember that on my worksheet when I ordered mine, and I'm out of town and don't have my worksheets to verify it. But I'd say that most 87 Formulas probably don't have them.

 

Thanks, LAFireboyd, that's some interesting questions. Can confirm it is the center bolt valve covers. I can snag some under hood photos later this evening if it will provide more information. I know the Norwood plant closed in '87. Could that have anything to do with the peculiarities?

 

Nice find !!

All of my prior Formulas had what you call the "tilting" seats - but I dont know if that was standard in "all" Formulas ??
I thought that RPO was AQ9 but it's not on your SPID

@LAFireboyd - I'm curious....what makes you think it's a very early 87 ??

 

"Early" 87s had perimeter bolt valve covers and the large coil-n-cap distributors. No idea which cam and axle such an engine would've received. Makes me wonder if they were left over 1986 peanut cammed engines.

Center bolt valve covers confirm a "late" build. And looking at the VIN sequence, the build was long after mine, so it's not an early build and looks more like a very late build. Maybe it was so late that the factory ran out of BW 3.45 9-bolts?

Trans Ams have been receiving 9-bolts since 1985. It doesn't make sense that a 1987 Formula, especially one with a TPI/5-speed, which normally would've received a 3.45 9-bolt, received a 3.08 10-bolt. So it was either due to a shortage, or there's a specific combination of options on that car that led to it receiving a 3.08 10-bolt, which is more likely to be the case, as I think 87 might've been the first year for "option packages," and even dealers were confused about how to order some options.

The tilt seats in question are code AAA, 4-way manual adjustable seats? Those have the two levers at the bottom, where one controls the slider, and the other tilts the entire seat track? Has nothing to do with the tilting seatback, but the whole seat tilts on the track, right? My car has the deluxe interior, and it doesn't have those tilt seats, just one lever for the sliders. Whenever I see images of seats in new seat cover ads, they always have two levers, so they're apparently more common than I realized. Mine only has one, so I used to wonder what that was about, but an investigation gave me the answer. Again, I don't remember seeing such an option available when I ordered my car, but that doesn't mean it wasn't, and I won't be home to check my paperwork for a few months. NOT looking forward to winter in the Midwest!!!

 

Those do not look like the ThirdGen "ultma" seats, so they are not factory correct to the car:



The factory subwoofer option was RPO UQ7. I do not see it on the RPO pictures. There was no 6 speaker option. Two in the front dash pad and two in the rear quarter panel trim.

 

JT - The Ultima (GTA) seats were not standard on Formulas - I've never seen GTA Ultima seats in a Formula

The factory sub woofer option (UQ7) had 2 fronts, 2 rears and 2 sub woofer speakers = 6 speakers - I did see the UQ7 on the spid for this car

 

By tilting seats I thought the reference was the Ultima seats that was standard on the GTA and optional on the Trans Am. Regardless, as you can tell from the picture I enlarged, those seats do not look correct. A better picture might help to be sure.

Regarding the UQ7 and 6 speaker reference, I suppose you can call it "6 speakers" to include the subwoofer but since the subwoofer is not the same as a speaker against the rest, I considered it 4 speakers plus subwoofers.

 

Its hard to tell in the pic you enlarged, but IMO, that could be an original Formula seat (looking at pics of my old Formulas)

A 1985 Trans Am Window sticker I have states the following for RPO UQ7 - "Dual Front & Rear Coaxial speakers & Dual Rear Subwoofer speakers"
Which is why I stated 6 speakers

 

JT - on a second look at that seat pic - I agree with you - I see what your saying now - not Formula seats

 

Or, at least, not Formula seat headrests.

That enlarged picture looks clear enough to see that the headrests on those seats are for neither standard nor deluxe Formula seats. They look like 4thgen Firebird headrests.

I suppose if 4thgen headrests install the same as 3rdgen headrests, then they could be 3rdgen seats with 4thgen headrests, which would look nice. However, the interior pictures show deluxe seats, but a standard interior. And there's no code on the SPID label for the deluxe interior, so the correct seats should be the plain ones with no side bolsters, but those have side bolsters, so they're probably transplanted 4thgen Firebird seats. Even if they're GTA seats, then they're still not original to a 1987 Formula.

87 Formulas and the years that immediately followed could not get GTA seats, but I think 91-92 Formulas might've been able to get them. Seems to me that I read here on TGO that there was an option where they could get the seats and the wheels.

True, there was no formal 6-speaker option, but UQ7 is considered to have created a 6-speaker system.

Regarding "early" vs "late," I learned about this back in the early 2000s when I shopped for aftermarket ignition parts. And I just remembered where I saw pictures of an "early" 1987 Formula with perimeter bolt valve covers and the large distributor. It was in the car magazines that tested the new-for-1987 Formula: pictures of the engine bay.

 

I agree, those are most likely 4th gen seats......

 

I don't believe the Formula had the optional Ultima AQ9 seats. The Pontiac data up to 1989 shows no such examples for the Formula, as it shows 100%(*) of them received the AR9, and Compnine shows no AQ9 results for the 1990-1992 Formula. The PW7 wheels were optional on the later Formulas to allow the L98 and CC1 order option.

*Side note about the AQ9 seats. Pontiac's 1987 data shows 4 of them for the S87 (Firebird/Formula) despite supposedly being N/A on the sales guides. Maybe @okfoz has some insight on that one.

Yes, I believe they are 4th gen seats based on the larger headrests. The car's RPO shows option 19B, so that is not the deluxe interior code.

Also, had it have the optional UQ7 it would have been somewhat rare as less than 6% of the Firebird/Formula had them. However, that's not likely something a collector places a lot of value over other things.

 

Ok there is a lot to dissect. You guys have been very informative. I've since got to the house and have snapped a few more pictures.

AAA is the 4 way option I was curious on as an extra fyi. One of the pics show the extra flat lever

Date tag showed 5/87
Also included a picture of the center bolt covers

 

Those are absolutely NOT 3rd gen Formula seats

 

Those are 4th generation F-Body seats, so they are not original to the car. They look gray but it could be the lighting. You have 19B RPO code, which means the seats should be be black.

Even if it had the original seats, they would have been the standard seats to the Formula.

The car's condition, mileage and LB9/MM5 and being a Formula is the bigger factors. Formulas didn't come loaded with options as that was not their market. They were supposed to be less optioned, lighter weight, performance car.

 

Pick up a set of black 3rd gen Formula seats - IMO, it will look much better

 

Thanks guys. This would explain why the seat belt is not looped through the headrest on the driver side.

I love digging through the history but it looks like I've got a bare bones formula with a fancy stereo basically. That was built sometime in the last run at Norwood. That's also not nearly as unmolested as I thought.

 

Ah, there it is. Drum brakes? No J65 (4-wheel disc brakes). That probably explains the 3.08 10-bolt instead of a 3.45 9-bolt.

I see UQ7 on the label.

My opinion on the seats is to keep them keep. 4thgen Firebird seats are much nicer than 3rdgen seats, and they're especially nicer than the standard Firebird seats that originally came in that car. But unless those seats have been installed on your factory seat tracks, which isn't likely, then the AAA code is out the window. They apparently have a tilt-track, but the 3rdgen levers were more like hook-style handles, from what I've seen in pictures.

The previous owner(s), at least, made some nice changes to the car while keeping it a Firebird: they removed the body side moldings (mine are going away if I ever have to do any paint work), and they installed 4thgen Firebird seats.

With originality gone, but still a very nice car, and with its mileage, which isn't high by realistic standards, but too high for the fickle at heart, might as well look for a better rearend, something with a posi/disc.

 

You're right. Looked again and immediately saw it on one of the two pictures posted.

The UQ7 was on less than 6% Firebird/Formula models, making it somewhat less common. However, again, that is not the sort of option that most people are looking for. Condition, mileage, powertrain, model, and color options are more looked at.

Also, AAA is "Additional Standard Equipment" and shows to be on all Firebird/Formula models.

 

Good to know. Had I not started all this I would have never learned more about the car.

Was already thinking something like this. 4 wheel disc with some dse or qa1 components. But I didn't want to start swapping parts until I learned more. I mean even the r12 a/c works and the air injections system is still intact.

 

That looks to be a very clean car! For sure those are 4th gen seats as I had some black ones in a prior 89 Formula I had. SO MUCH more comfortable than the originals. What color is the car? I don't recall every seeing one that color if it is a factory color. Congrats, enjoy the car!

 

It appears to have RPO 23L / 23U which is Bright Blue Metallic

 

I blame the dealers. A lot of them still believed that customers thought factory sound systems sucked and would probably replace them with aftermarket stuff like in the 70s, so they didn't order the good stuff and often ordered no stereo at all and would install something to make a sale, if necessary. Probably the only reason I have the UQ7 is because I filled out my own order. It's not likely that I'd have known about it otherwise. And 88 was the last year for it. Rear seat belts in 89 did away with the space back there, supposedly.

I didn't decipher AAA. Cujo did in his post in the RPO thread that he linked in his first post in this thread. I haven't looked up what the code is for the 4-way adjustable seats, but I guess it's not AAA.

 

I'm not sure I understand the 4-way seat comments that originated in this thread. All Firebirds, since 1982, had the reclining seatback as standard. The reclining seatback and the forward/backward seat position is what's generally referred to as a 4-way seat? Then there was the power 6-way seat, which shows only 3 Firebird/Formulas equipped as and 3 Trans Am/GTAs equipped as, according to Pontiac's option analysis for 1987. There's also the AQ9 Ultima seats with the power lumbar.

 

A few things
1) Personally I owned 2 1987's with the 3.45, VIn HL225532 (Hard top) and HL230810 (T-top). I have seen only a handful of 3.08 LB9/MM5 1987 Formulas. I believe if they ordered the LB9/MM5 with J65 (Disc Brakes) it came with the 3.45 and if you got the Drum brakes you got the 3.08. (Note starting in 1988 all LB9/MM5 cars got the Disc brakes and 3.45 or later 3.42 axles)

2) AH3 = "4 way adjustable seat" It is the seat track that you can lean back the bottom of the seat, this has nothing to do with the "GTA Seats" regardless, it was NA on the Formula and Firebird, but I believe it was standard with the Articulating GTA seats because of the location of the pump assembly. Interestingly 5 Base 1987 Firebirds or Formulas got the option, probably a pre-produciton car. For 1988+ the 4 way adjustable AH3 was very common on all cars.
AR9 = "GTA" Articulating Ultima Seats.
AQ9 = "Base seats," But it could be one of two seat designs.

3) The seats in the car are 4th gen.

4) you have RPO 19B which is the base 1987 Formula interior in Black. 19C would have gotten you the slightly better AQ9 seats and the molded Door panels, (This was a 1987 only thing on the Formula and base Firebird.

5) UQ7 is the 6 speaker with subwoofer control. They sounded fantastic when new and a really neat option. Pretty unusual option, as only about 5.8% got the option in 1987. Interestingly it was NA on the GTA & TA with a 350 in the US, BUT you could get it with the Formula 350. Unfortunately the amps go bad and not easily replaced, and the speakers have dry rotted and the speakers happen to be an unusual size, so you need to modify the enclosure to put aftermarket speakers in. At least I had to.

Did I miss any points?

 

Nah @okfoz I think you nailed them all. 😆

I ran across a list of rpos that said AAA was 4-way adjustable seats. As in the seat track. I had the adjustment on mine, unknowing they were 4th gen. But I couldn't find repeated posts of AAA in 87 rpo codes. Looks like 89/90-92 it was on every one. So it struck my curiosity if 87 had some kind of model changeover.

Interesting about the rear axle too. 3.42 is not a major jump from 3.08, but that rough 21mpg on the highway was a surprise when I drove it home from South Carolina. I was anticipating alot worse from a mid 80s v8.

 

The RPO AAA is listed as "Additional STD (Standard) EQUIPMENT" Directly from the Pontiac Production documents.