I searched and didn't see anything. But do we have a section for prototypes and studio sketches and models on the site? I found a book I have that has a final chapter devoted to the development of the third gen platform and design. Included were some of the first sketches, studio models, clay models, comparisons outside GM design with second gens, chassis development prototypes, etc. I'd be more than happy to scan in the photos and post them up. I just want to be sure there is enough interest in them on here before I post them here. I'm posting them on the early third gen site because of the obvious relevance there. But it might be a couple days before I get to doing it in the first place.

I would be interested. sounds neat.

cool
yeah, do it!

Whats the name of the book?

Its called "Firebird! America's Premier Performance Car." By Gary Witzenburg. Published in 1982. Has a huge emphasis on the first two generations. The other one that some sketches might come from will be "Fabulous Firebird". Again major emphasis on first and second gen cars. I can see if I can start scanning tomorrow. Due to the emphasis on the first two generations I can see how third gen fans can miss it.

Yeah man do it if you have time, I for one would be very interested in seeing these.

Sounds cool, I would like to see it.

yeah would be majorly interested in this!

I too would love to see the images.

There is some in a book... i do not have the book on me, but I think it is "Firebird the Third Generation"

John

*****Update

I'm in the process of scanning in all the photos I found in two books. They should be posted by sometime tonight at the latest. I'll include the captions that were in the book about the photos, so we all know what we are looking at.

John, I don't have that one, might be worth looking for though. And to all the camaro guys, I apologize for not having any camaro prototypes, but the engineering mules apply to the F-body chassis so technically there are camaros in this set of photos. I'll keep an eye out for any camaro protoype or design studio pics.

Correction.
The name of the book is Pontiac's Third Generation Firebird & Trans Am, by Martyn L. Schorr.
http://www.amazon.com/Pontiacs-Third...494733&sr=1-70

A unique book as it has some great (albeit B&W) pictures of development. When you combine that with the Camaro book the whole process really comes into focus. Either book by itself I really do not think it does the development justice...

Here is what I have sofar. About 10 more coming after these despite my laptop dying on me (for some reason the power cord is not working) but I did manage to get these scanned in before having to switch to the desktop.

From "Fabulous Firebird"

Here is the last of what I have for now.
Here are some from the other book.

1976 Rendering of a possible design for the third gen Firebird/Trans Am. Set the tone for the third gen run.


Engineering Cutaway drawing.


Mid-Engine sketch?


Mid-engine Firebird concept from Fall 1975.

Front Wheel Drive concepts March 1976 and the skirted one is from Fall 1976.


Full Size Model being done in Clay. in Pontiac #2 Studio.


Clean clay Rear wheel drive model.


Stringer Buck.


FWD model compared to 1978 Firebird in early 1978, in the upper photo. Lower photo is Advanced Studio Trans Am in Black and Red with a 1979 Black Special Edition Trans Am in Fall 1978.

Finally the last one I have for now. Early 1979 model in a wind tunnel, Note the tape on the body.

notice the high rise spoiler like the 91-92 Z28 on a firebird. I believe the tape was used for wind tunnel testing....

John

There are more in that book the last ten came from, but the laptop battery gave out and the software is not cooperating with me on the desktop. There are two photos of F-body chassis mules, a unibody frame drawing, a TA interior concept and a couple more photos of studio work. I'll get those up at some point. But this should satisfy for now.

that looks more like a regular wrap around spoiler to me. highrises are higher than that and look more square.

It could be a high rise, but I don't have a side view photo to settle that debate. It could be an ordinary 82-84 TA spoiler which appears to be a high rise from above. Leave it up to interpretation.

Camaro owners rejoice. Here's a little for you guys. Sorry for the poor pic quality . . .

Now thats awesome. Its in COLOR TOO! Hmmm. Seems like I hit on a popular subject too .

nawce body lines if that was to be the new 3rd gen firebird, but it almost like a rendition of a 73 pantera!...but still many concept ideas and designs from the 1st and 2nd gens came from foreign vehicles, fighter planes, etc...but never the less this info is priceless!

Iroctopless,

What issue magazine is all that Camaro info from and can you back order it? Geezzzzz, I wish I knew that was out when it was. Any higher resolution so it can be read? It's a little too small for me to see.

Looking at his mag article's bottom headers it appears to be from August 2006 issue of Collectible Automobile. I had access to those in school but I graduated this past spring. Now I wish I knew of them so I could scan them in. I'd bet money there was one for the Pontiac as well.

Anyone from the midwest near McPherson KS? Go to the Library on the college campus there and go into the stacks in the basement. They will all be down there. You could scan all the third gen related articles and not pay a dime.

Try downloading the pics from the folder itself, they might be more readable. Otherwise I will need to rescan the magazine and unfortunately it's packed away until our move on Oct 15th.

http://www.4shared.com/dir/21179341/..._Scetches.html

Ok folks, I've got my laptop working again, my power socket might be getting worn out. I'll scan in the rest of those photos sometime tomorrow assuming I get the chance. Will keep an eye out for more. I have actual photographs of the 1988 Banshee show car floating around on another thread I started somewhere on this board. Obviously that will be included in here too. I also have more photos of the yellow IROC concept and more floating around my house somewhere. I've got a couple more Firebird books to check, and I've got a Camaro book or two to check as well.

There's Fiero DNA on last car in post #14. Cool thread.

As promised before I leave for Hershey Saturday Morning. Here are the rest of the photos that were in that book "Firebird! America's Premier Sports Car." These are the last of the development/prototype photos I have. Also I found the power/performance chart for the proposed 1982 Turbo TA, which was in "Pontiac Firebird: The Auto-Biography".

Model in the Studio lot, with the pop up headlights and no eyebrows.


Refining the rear spoiler. Note the "Turbo" on the plate, indicating the abandoned Turbo engine.


Early 1982 Firebird instrument panel with aircraft style instruments.


Chassis development cars, one from a cobbled up X-car body, the other is a converted Sunbird with IMSA Monza bodywork, these were pre-prototype development vehicles. you can see the proportions are very similar to our cars. Especially the top one.


Third gen Unibody structure diagram.

Proposed and abandoned 1982 Turbo TA power/performance chart. Was going to use a revised Pontiac 4.9 301 with a GM turbo and FI.


This is all I've been able to find, if there are any more I'll post them as well, I'll look in the Motor Trends I have for prototype photos and spy shots next. If only I had a better idea of where they would be in their issues. Enjoy the photos.

I have seen that before, never looked at it really close, but notice the following:

0-60 = 6.7 sec
1/4 = 15.0 sec @ 92.7 Mph

Optimum shift point @ 4400 RPM...

Honestly in 1982 15 second quarter was respectable... I would imagine with some tweaking they may have been able to get a 14 second quarter, maybe with some higher boost...

By chance does anyone know the quarter mile times for the Corvette in 1982 & 1984?

Pretty cool really.

John

thats cartest. I have the same program. Doubt it existed in 1982.
Someone just plugged in some numbers and called it an 82tta.
I could plug in any numbers I wanted to and produce the same screen shot.

1982 Vette was a real dog, 1984 was somewhat respectable I believe, will have to look em up to be sure. I'll see what I can find.

John this is what I found. 1982 Vette with L83 Crossfire and an Auto (Corvette was only available with an Auto in 82). It was clocked at 7.9 seconds to 60 and hit the quarter in 16.1 @ 84.5 MPH.

I haven't found 84 yet but the 85 vette ran those same tests in 5.7 sec to 60 and 14.1 at 97 mph for the Auto and 6.0 to 60 and 14.4 at 95 for the manual (4+3). The engine was the TPI that was introduced in 85 rather than the crossfire from 84. Both cars it seems could reach 150 mph.

EDIT****
1984 Corvette ran to 60 in 7 seconds flat and hit the quarter in 15.5 @ 88 mph. (An L69 T-5 car can out run it to the quarter mile and run with it to 60) Hows that for comparison? Maybe Chevy conspired to kill the Turbo TA because they were supposed to have THE sportscar.... LMAO!

I got a book from a friend for Christmas. It covers Camaros (yes a Pontiac guy who also likes the Chevy) and there were several early photos and sketches in there. Some of them are going to be repeats of the above post but some are bigger and some are probably not on here. I'll scan them in when I get the chance. I'll look at it and compare to the above camaro article and see what is worth scanning in. Some of the earliest sketches are quite stunning.

Thanks L695speed and Okfoz. I've ordered both books and am looking forward to a lot of good time reading.

i thought about making the camaro proto type... i like the design

and i think some of those make the firebird look like a lambo or some what in that direction they should of kept it like that