87bluebird

i was wondering if a second gen dash will fit in a third gen.i personally dont like the way the 3d and 4th gen dash's look. 4th gens look out of place and everyone has one. and the stock 3d gen ones look ugly especially on the passenger side with the map pouch, and they don't have a glove box. at least thats my opinion. i am already planing to give this car a retro look outside (snowflake rims, ductail spoiler, 82-84 smoked trans am tail lights, black and gold paint, hood bird,etc) so i was thinking why not do the same inside.i realy like the brushed steal dashes that some of the second gens had like this

and i thought that would look good in my car. so i was wondering if it would fit and how much fabrication would be needed. also has anyone actually done this. 4th gen interiors in 2nd gens are common. and i read a thread where a guy used a third gen interior in 2nd gen. if a 3d and 4th can go in a 2nd gen it mite be possible for a 2nd gen to go in a 3d. also before you say SEARCH i did and i found 4 posts about it from 2004-2006 1, 2, 3, 4. and no one seemed to know for sure.

Zyddian

I say go for it...

My dash in my Firebird was that ugly tan color and all chewed up... When Iwent to remove it broke into 3 different pieces. SO I am just building my own... Love 3rd Gens but hate the interior stuff. Been a process but if it turns out right it will look sharp..

Good Luck!!!

DeathMetalTony

Go for it! What you go to loose?

Tony.

Jekt

make sure you keep the 8 track, they are going to come back

well if you know any one with a 2nd gen just measure it. or you could go to a JY and see.

mechanic1992

subscribed, i wanna see this, sounds like an interesting swap

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

It wouldn't be hard to take the stock gauge cluster cover off & cover it either with real turned aluminum or the vinyl that looks just like it.

This is just the first pic example I found, but it gives you the idea.


The for the passenger side, pull the pouch off & fab up what ever you want over there to replace it.

The_Wraith

The swap would be fairly simple I would imagine. The cluster would be a walk in the park. Speedo would work real easy as it's cable driven. I agree on it being better then the 4thgen dash. Mines been in for 4 years and the cool factor dies out real fast. Sometimes I want to go back to the factory dash.

jj74sd455

it would probably take a lot of fabrication,but definitely possible.the toughest area i see would be fabricating the filler panel between the dash and windshield.on the second gens it is rivited to the firewall and used as an anchor for the dash.unless you are using a new dash, all the old ones i come across are very brittle. if you want measurements just tell me what points, ive got a 77 firebird and plenty of extra dashes to measure.

87bluebird

how wide are they from a pillar to a pillar on the top and where are the mounting tabs how far apart are they thanx. if i do this i will use a new one ive read alot about the old ones being warped and brittle from sun exposure. also the center console would they fit in a third gen and whats the width, length and height on them. thanx

stephen i thought about that. but i thought this idea would look better.

Jekt

if you gho all out retro id like to see a shaker hood on it

jj74sd455

ive got to do some errands this morning,ill get those for you a little after noon

87bluebird

jekt a shaker hood was another one of my plans not suree about an 8 track tho

i got the measurements of my stock dash and console
between the a pillars its 54 1/2
side to side between doors it is 56 1/2
it is about 14 inches tall and 14 inches deep
form the bottom of the center console the top of the dash is 20 inches
center console is about 6 inches tall and 8 1/2 inches wide by the e brake (not sure what ill do about the e brake yet the second gen have a petal)
the stereo and heat control area is 7 inches tall and 10 inches wide
from the bottom of the dash pad to the top of stereo and heat control area is 9 inches

if you can get comparable measurements from your second gen i would appreciate it thanx

87bluebird

i was looking at the exterior dimensions of 2nd and 3d gens and the second gens are only an inch wider and 7 inches longer and the Height is between .2 and .4 depending on model so the interior dimensions should be close
heres the 2 sites i got the dimensions from 2nd and 3d

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Don't forget that there is a HUGE difference between the windshield angles on the 2nd and 3rd gens. I'm sure it could be done, but it could be difficult to find a decent dash to start with. Besides, do you have the gauges cluster or the idiot light cluster? If you have the gauges, then going BACK to a speedo cable is A. not going to be easy, and B. pointless, as the electronic speedo doesn't require maintenance, make noise, nor require the problem of even having a speedo cable in the first place. And then there is the whole deal of the ECM requiring a VSS signal, which, on a speedo cabled car, is on the back of the cluster (which I'm sure the second gen has no room for). You COULD swap an electric speedo into the 2nd gen dash, but then you'd have to find something to do about your original odometer (Federal law mandates the original odometer has to stay with the car or carry a sticker that it's been replaced if it malfunctions).

87bluebird

i have the idiot lights and mechanical speedo
how much would the windshield angle affect dash fitment?
i would use a used 2nd gen dash from a junkyard for mock up then get a new one from classic ind. or somewhere like that online. and use the used one as a template.
and as far as that federal law goes who does or worries about that during a dash swap. the government don't have to know.

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

i noticed that alot of times when people ask for help on something, they get the "law" treatment . why is this. if the odometer is exempt , then who gives a crap which one is in the car, as long as you dont try to sell it claiming those are actual, what difrence does it make? there are so many cars out there that are so called "illegal" who s keepin tabs?

by the way that picture looks , i would say that dash has got to be pretty damn close .. the only things i noticed you might have a problem with is, will the dash fit in the car width wise and will the notches for the steering wheel line up right, and also if the filler panel goin to the windsheild wont work , i dont think that could be too hard to make it fit or make a new one

cool idea i hope it works out i personely like the 2nd gen dash, but after lookin at mine again i dont see too much of a diffrence other than the face plate and the heater control area. but i still like the 2nd gen stuff and if it works for you , post the progress, i may want to do the same thing

good luck

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

if all the sizes check out , i would nt worry about how to bolt it in, you can always make the rest of the stuff you need, and the best part is that its all under the dash so youll never see any of it anyway

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That depends on the locality if/when he does move and how they do their inspections... And if he sells the car as well, because the new owner could come back and say that what is in the car was there when bought and it could be his rear that ends up in jail for odometer fraud (a lot of people use CarFax nowadays and if the odometer says something like 76,XXX miles and the last number posted on CF is over 180,XXX, he's in trouble).

That's why either the original odo is kept or a sticker is placed somewhere... Exhaust and crap isn't usually a big thing except to a ***** cop with a hard-on, but odometer fraud is big time crap that dealership owners have gone to jail for.

Just as a heads-up.

:edit: Oh, and windshield angle affects the depth of the dash and placement. Along with other things. There's also the overall depth of the dash to consider, not just along the top of the dash pad.

87bluebird

heres another pic of a 2nd gen dash

if the size is close to the 3d gens then it should be a fairly simple swap. mounting brackets shouldn't be to hard to make.the things that will be the most complicated are the E-brake. and modifying the heating vents.
the wiring should be pretty simple the only thing about the electrical that i can see is the headlight switch cuz the second gen didn't flip up

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

anything can be made , anythings possible, maybe not probable , but possible

he wouldnt be in trouble if the car fax odometer reading is difrent, as long as its stated on bill of sale and on the new registration that the odometer does not reflect actual mileage and is exempt , hes fine
as long as you dont lie about the milage and try to pass it off *** original, hes fine, just dont try to defraud anyone, and if there is a sticker or whatever , doesnt hurt to put that in there either, or never sell it anyway, drive er to the ground

87bluebird

i highly doubt i would ever sell this car after i do all that i want to do to it. and i inspect my own cars so it will pass no matter what. also i could set the odometer in the 2nd gen gauge cluster to read what the stock odometer read.


the 3d gens dash overall depth is 14 inches

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

you could probebly get an aftermarket custom switch for the lights, i would think, not sure what the park brake looks like under the dash , i have a buddy who has a 77 trans am , next time im over there ill check out dimensions and a bunch of other stuff...ya the dash on my firebird does look deeper . hope it works , it would look cool

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

whats the depth of a second gen

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

as far as considering the depth,, once you have it fit in the point i was trying to make was that you could fab the cover you have or make one to COVER the space. so it doesnt really matter the depth i guess as long as it doesnt stick out into your chest, ha ha or too far , you know what im sayin

its obvious that it may not be exactly in place of the 3rd gen but thats ok . as long as its functional and looks good , and is bolted in good. i bet it would look pretty cool

87bluebird

not sure on actual depth but it looks close. on the passenger side there may be an issue cuz the 2nd gens arent as deep on that side. i could get it as far back as possible on that side and mount it then make a fiberglass filler panel to go between the dash and windshield.

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

the second gen doesnt look as deep. i agree , but that could be cause the whole dash looks to be deeper in on that side. on the third gen alot of that depth is actually just the dash cover itself stickin out farther, which im sure you know already, just pointing that out, so in reality it may actually be closer to a fit then you are worried about, im thinkin alot of the depth on that side is just a visual effect of the third gen . i could be wrong maybe find the depth from the map pocket to the firewall in the third gen. instead of goin by the dash . it may be closer then it appears

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

but im tellin ya , wow how close do those kick panels look to a third gen

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

as far as the heater vents and tubes behind the dash go i would think you would need a little custom work on em to make them work but i think you got a realy good chance of this workin

87bluebird

thats the 14 inches and the second gen has the glove box which will cause some interference the heat vents and tubes look like there close to the same area so they shouldn't be to hard to modify
i hadnt even look at the kick panels yet but they do look pretty similar i doubt i would do any swapping of them tho.just dash and possible center console.i was also looking at the second gen door panels as another possible swap.


i'll probably just do the dash for now and go back later and do other swaps i know the 2nd gen door panels are'nt the same shape as third gens and probably wont fit but i could redo the 3d gen door panels to look like that

jj74sd455

ok here we go
between the a pillars=54 1/2"
side to side between the doors=56 1/2"
dash is 13 3/4" tall and 11 1/4 deep at the top to the windshield
from the top of dash to bottom of floor console is 22"
floor console is 5 1/2" tall and the area between the seats (where the ebrake would be) is5 3/4" wide
in the area the heater and stereo controls are in the third gen, the second gen measures 10 3/4" from bottom of floor console to top of console cubby (where the optional cb was mounted)

overall it looks like a very feasable swap,hardest thing being mounting a metal extension between the windshield and the dash, this piece provides most of the strength for a second gen.there are two lower mounts on each side of dash at the doors. the column mounts are basically the same in both gens though.as for the ebrake you may be able to get one from a junkyard with a seperate mounting bracket not utilizing the shifter and mount it next to second gen floor console-hope this helps, let me know if you need any other measurements

87bluebird

thanx! wow that is extremely close to the same size. i could make a metal bracket to support the back of the dash. and then make a fiberglass filler panel to cover that.
the part thats gonna be the hardest is locating a 2nd gen dash and an e brake. ill start searching the local junkyard and see what i can find. i never thought that would be that close to the same size side to side there almost identical the only difference is depth and a little height. and the consoles narrower. thanx!

aremy10

iTrader: (3)

ya thats close

jj74sd455

i was amazed at how close it is. after you pull everything out of your car hook the second gen dash up at the steering column first then level the top of it and mark the bottom corners and make a template for the dash. you can get a dash from the junkyard and have it redone (you can ship it to one of many shops that specialize in this) and make a template of the area on the second gen car you remove it from. i think it would be easy other than the electrical part, but thats not one of my best areas.holler if you need any other measurements or questions and good luck. i hope you do it.

87bluebird

if i can find a second gen dash for a reasonable price i will do this.i cant think of any 2nd gens in the local yards but ill look to make sure. then start looking online. to simplify things so i dont have to mess with the Ebrake and so ill have cup holder ill probably use a 4th gen console and then use fiberglass to blend it with the 2nd gen dash. i dont have photoshop but this is a quick chop i did with paint
0001.jpg?t=1271476111
it atleast gives an idea of what i was thinking if anyone with photoshop wants to try choping that better the picture of the console is here the dash is in my first post what do you guys think of how that looks (the console is not to scale) otherwise i think it don't look to bad just needs to be painted to match.
this does sound like a pretty simple mod im not to worried about the electrical thats one thing im usually pretty good with also i wood use the second gen shifter ***

87bluebird

heres that same pic in black and white
0001-1.jpg?t=1271477928
with it the same color i think it looks alright. what you guys think?
it still need to blended into the dash to look like it belongs.

87bluebird

heres it with the dash and console smoothed out
00003-2-2.jpg?t=1271537324

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

I think you should buy a 2nd gen. They're beautiful cars in their own right.

You may also look at the 82-84 Firebird/Trans Am dashes/consoles. They look more square to me and would make a good platform for turned aluminum accent panels and the like.

Ilike2stroke383

i agree. i know it would be unique but its just to time consuming and it will never look perfect. i would just keep the engine and transmission out of your current car, buy a second gen and fix it up. swap engine and transmission and have a fuel injection 2nd gen!

87bluebird

i would love to own a second gen but i cant afford to buy another car and as far taking the engine from my car and putting it in a second gen i would never do that. ya a fuel injected second gen would be cool but i don't think a v6 second gen would be cool. that v6 can barely move this car. and while fuel injection is cool its also a PITA and when i do stick the 350 in my bird im gonna switch to a carburetor. i thought about getting accent panels and dressing up the stock dash but i still don't like the shape of the stock dash and i would like to have a glove box and cup holders and stuff like that which aren't on the stock dash and console. which is the reason i thought of using second gen dash. what do you guys think of how the 4th gen console looks with the second gen dash could i blend the two together like that with fiberglass.

87bluebird

heres the 4th gen console in color
000001-3.jpg?t=1271610320

hardon85

It does blend together nice but I still don't think they look right together as the 4th gen console is more modern looking and the 2nd gen dash looks dated to me. Also in your picture it looks like you are planning to make the console and dash 1 piece, I'm not sure if you would make them 1 piece after the install or not but if you ever have to remove them I could see a lot of cussing if it was even possible to remove them together.

jj74sd455

as a pontiac guy and a second gen fan(ive had five,currently own two),a fuel injected chevy in a pontiac is not as cool as you think. i know a guy with one and i used to whoop his *** in my 75 with the factory 350 pontiac and a holley. i cant think of any advantages of this swap.

jj74sd455

if you are seriously considering glassing it in then how about modifying the second gen console to fit the e brake and cup holder. you could even put the cupholder in a better spot than the fourth gens(in my 94 its right behind my shifter,i knock my drink over every time i shift. as far as the dash goes id give you one free if you paid the shipping( i dont know what it would be from 66608 zip to you). i know the visual would be personally beneficial to you of the stock metal extension(i could give you pics but its hard to see exactly how the tabs are bent).i also have an extra console but id have to have some cash for it because its hard to find decent ones anymore.

diablood5

it all comes down to what you like. i think its a cool idea and would like to see what it looks like when it is finished.

87bluebird

jj74sd455 how much would that be to ship to portageville NY 14536 according to Google maps that 1077 miles from you. also how much do they cost in a junkyard. my plan is to start rebuilding this car when i take it off the road for the winter. hopefully i can do the body and interior this winter and the engine and stuff the next winter. i have a a plan for the dash . and no hardon85 the dash and console wont be one piece. that would be a PITA to remove. i think what i would do is hook it to the steering and have some one hold it level while find some way to temperarely hold it in place probably duct tape then use cardboard or some thing to make a template for the back by the windshield then cut a piece of sheet metal to put there after that make a fiber glass cover for that. then figure out the lower mount and heating and wiring then send the dash and the fiberglass panel to an upholstery shop to get wrapped in vinyl or leather depending on how fat my wallet is at the time.
but i still have no clue on what to do with the console, i probably wont use second gen console cuz like jj74sd455 said the good ones are hard to come by and if i where to modify it to have cup holders and an E brake there wont be much left of the console i start with i'll probably either mod a 4th gen to fit or if that looks to out of place maybe build a custom console i don't know yet.

also jj74sd455 i would like to see some pics of the mounting brackets and the backside of a second gen dash if you got some. thanx oh and one more thing could u get some measurements of the 2nd gen heating vents like how far apart they are and how far from the edge of the dash they are. im not worried about the center ones just the the outer 2. thanx

hardon85

I think a custom built center console is the way to go I would try and make it look like a 2nd gen console and add the things in you need or want. Also as it was pointed out the cup holder behind the the shifter is worthless I had that exact same console in my 97 camaro and the only thing it was good for was holding change, as anything that stuck out the top was always getting in the way when shifting (although it looks like you have an auto) the one I always used was the one that pulled out right under the radio.

Also as stated above if you decide to do it please take lots of pictures and put your adventure on here.

I'll be honest with you personally I don't like it but if you want something different this is the way to go, as parts should be readily available and I have never heard of anyone else doing something like this.

I say go for it who cares what others think you are already obviously sold on doing it so have at it. It will be a fun winter project.

87bluebird

i was thinking of using whats left of the beat up 3d gen console and modifying it so it has cup holders (maybe in front of the shifter just gotta move or eliminate the ash tray.) and so i can use a second gen shifter atleast the *** and plate and then have it wrapped in leather or something. still not sure about if ill have an auto or stick rite now its auto and the one bolted to the 350 is auto i was thinking of getting a 5 speed but not sure i have a year to decide that. more than likely i'll stick with the automatic just to make my life easier.

jj74sd455

heres the dash extension mounts

heres the back of dash

heres the dash curve to view

heres the mounts on the dash (studs on pass side, bolts on driver side)

heres the side view of dash shape

heres a link for a vacuum formed dash cover for cracked dashes
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=330419446611
still working on getting shipping figured, you may try a second gen site for sponsors like the thirdgenranch to buy everything in a package deal. it would probably be easier.

jj74sd455

the vents are about 37 3/8" apart (inside edge of vent to inside edge of opposite vent)

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

You might look for "covergirl" here at thirdgen. They have a a website http://www.birdsandbowties.com/
I think they carry some 2nd gen parts. You might score a dash and other parts.