I recently bought 2 T-Top overhead consoles, both missing parts, to combine into one. I noticed that there are at least THREE differences in the 2 consoles (see pics). one has no labeling for the light switches (i'll call it type 1, the one that's labeled DOME and MAP I'll call type 2).

Type 1 has no switch labels, 2 re-enforcement bars in the flashlight cavity and 2 mounting studs for the map light bulb mounting plate.

Type 2 has switch labels, 3 re-enforcement bars in the flashlight cavity and 4 mounting studs for the map light bulb mounting plate.

Again, as theses are both T-TOP consoles I was wondering if these differences can be chalked up to Chevy vs Pontiac or early vs late model differences? I know they were only offered for 3 years, so a redesign seems a bit silly.

Anyone know the answer?

P.S. in the name of science, it would be interesting to hear from all of you that have one (either factory installed or that know for sure which car you got yours from) the year, make model and type of console you have.

 

 

Thanks for posting the diagram, but it doesn't shed any light on the subject. Do you have an overhead console in your car? If so, does it have the switch labels or not? Does it have 2 or 3 reinforcement bars in the flashlight cavity?
For the record, the type 2 with the labeling and 3 reinforcement bars came with a FIREBIRD flashlight.
I thought this topic might be of interest in case others might be buying replacement parts, or trying to restore their rides accurately. I took the wiring harness from my type 1 and installed it in my type 2, which had a defective switch. I had to file the mounting studs off and superglue the bulb mounting plate to the console. No problem on a custom job like mine, but a restorer might think twice about such mods.
Can we solve this mystery as a community please?

 

. Do you have an overhead console in your car? Yes If so, does it have the switch labels or not? Yes it does Does it have 2 or 3 reinforcement bars in the flashlight cavity? 3


For the record, the type 2 with the labeling and 3 reinforcement bars came with a FIREBIRD flashlight.Same here.
Maybe it's a Chevy vs Pontiac thing.You say that both yours are from a T Top car.I do know that T Top and Hardtop are different.Could one of yours be from a different model GM Product.

 

try this thread,it will lead you to other threads
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq-...oth-types.html
On the back of the OH Console,check the P/Ns are they different or the same??

 

Thanks for your response Mantaguy, now we know that the 86 came with type 2. Here is a photo of type 1 from elsewhere on the third gen site:
This is a hardtop console that was for sale with a Firebird flashlight. (the seller claims it was out of his 87 formula, but it was installed by the owner, so the actual year of the donor car is unknown).
Both of mine are T-Top consoles:

I am leaning towards the idea of a possible redesign in 86 rather than a manufacturer thing.
Anyone else care to share the type of console, make and year of car you have to help us get at the actual facts?

 

I have no "years" for my four coupe overheads. All have lettering, all have three reinforcement pieces. Off topic, but I found four overhead screws that I'd forgotten about–-so thanks for that.

JamesC

 

James,I noticed in your thread that they have P/Ns,I know the HT and TT are different,but is the chevy P/Ns different?

 

RE:"Off topic, but I found four overhead screws that I'd forgotten about–-so thanks for that."

Glad I could help. I had to give $20 for those 4 screws, so keep em in a safe place!

 

I suspect that there is no difference in Pontiac/Chevy overheads—with the exception of the lettering on the flashlight. At any rate, the same part # appears on three of my consoles (the fourth is in-car, so I can't say).

JamesC

 

It's common for a company to make revisions when the original molds wear out, or if there is enough benefit from doing so.

I posted a similar thread based on dimming mirrors. I made a chart trying to find some kind of correlation but didn't get enough info to get a really clear picture. The dimming mirrors were supplied by Gentex and not GM specific.

MY '86 Berlinetta Hardtop has the raised switch labels and 3 re-enforcement bars in the flash light cavity, but I don't know about the 4 mounting studs. The build date on the doors is: 09 85.

 

Thanks for the reply Scorpner. We now can confirm that at least in 86 both Firebirds and Camaros used the type 2 design. Anyone out there with an 84 or 85?

 

I'm leaning on that the one with the two reinforcement bars are from 84-85,may have had a problem with Flashlight rattling or falling out,revised it with 3 bars to make the light more secure.Just a thought,don't know.And the console in James pic has a different P/N than the one I show in the Parts Book,I'm assuming James's are for a Camaro.I would think GM would not have a different P/N for the same part.

 

I am leaning towards the same conclusion with one caveat. According to John A Gunnell's excellent book "Firebird buyers guide - Third edition" the overhead console was not introduced (in a firebird anyway) until 1985(RPO code DK6). That is why I mentioned 3 years and not 4 in the initial post. I realize the graphic you posted says 84 - 87, and I know it's an official G.M. schematic, so what gives? Anyone out there have an overhead console in an 84?

 

According the Camaro White Book, DK6, console, roof, was mounted in 33,274 Camaros in 1984. BTW, mantaguy's schematic, 84-87, is the same as the one in the 82-85 Parts and Illustration Cat.

JamesC

 

Maybe that was because they started the 85 build year in 84.Here is some info on the 85 right under our noses.
https://www.thirdgen.org/1985-pontiac-firebird/

 

Here's some interesting facts about the DK6 on the Trans Am's Apparently their was certain criteria you had to have to get the DK6.

 

I love seeing this stuff. Thanks mantaguy!

 

I have quit a bit of those papers, unfortunately their only for 86.

 

Looking for several of those... Looking for 86-F-3, 86-F-9, 86-F-10, & 86-F-13 & Up if you have them...

I have all the others, what are you looking for I will see what I have.

 

Another change I have noticed is some years had the screws with a nylon spacer, and other years had billet aluminum pieces instead of nylon.

John

 

I have a hardtop console from an 86 berlinetta and a t top console from an 87 iroc and they are both type 2 styles

 

We already exchanged what we had awhile back.

 

I'm thinking now that maybe type 1 came from another GM car.

 

I've been digging for nuggets on the internet and found this site:
http://berlinetta.info/84.htm

How do you Spot an 84 Berlinetta ??? Just look inside !!!! In 1984 Chevrolet introduced the Digital Camaro Berlinetta..... This interior style was available as optional equipment in all other Camaros - but was standard equipment in the Berlinetta. Also added to the "digital" interior was a new Roof Console that could be mounted in hard top or t-top cars.

So it appears that in 1984 the console was a Camaro only option, (perhaps the type 1?),Pontiac introducing it in 1985. This reaffirms the availability dates of 84 - 87, and could possibly explain the rarity of type 1 if we can identify it as an early version. Pontiac redesigned the interior in 1985, so it is possible they redesigned the overhead console at the same time. We still haven't heard from anyone who owns a 1984 Berlinetta or a 1985 console equipped Camaro or 'Bird.
I did confirm the aluminum mounting screws for sale on eBay, mine are nylon, so there definitely 2 types of screws as well.

 

Thought so... it all runs together after a while.

 

I've noticed that a lot of the nylon screws I've found came from berlinettas

 

Wow; I wrote that a LONG time ago !!!


A Berlinetta overhead console is easily identifiable by the wiring on the back. Berlinettas used a 'extra' Purple wire. This Purple wire is a switched ground signal from the Light module,..... it's on a timer so the courtesy light will stay on after the doors are closed for a minute or 2.

Console on Top was removed from an original 84 Berlinetta last week. (& It's an exact match to my original 84 console mounted in Mean Green !) The console on bottom of this pic is non-Berlinetta style from an unknown year. ( year is irrelevant regarding the purple wire. )




Here is a picture that should answer a few questions,.. ( Terrible picture; but it gets the point across ! )




All the Roof consoles that are horizontal are all Berlinetta Consoles. The vertical console is not from a Berlinetta. The 1 Console I am sure of is marked as '1984'. All Berlinetta Consoles must be 84-86.


L = Lettering on the console
2 on Map Light = 2 plastic welds
4 on Map Light = 4 plastic Welds
2 on flashlight = 2 "Ribs" in flashlight hole
3 on flashlight = 3 "Ribs" in flashlight hole

The 2 consoles without Lettering both show 2 welds and 2 ribs. 1 without lettering is a known 84 console.

The 4th console down ( top to bottom ) has Lettering,... but 2 welds and 2 ribs. It could POSSIBLY / PROBABLY be an 85 console. ( added lettering, left rest of design ).

All other consoles shown have Lettering, 4 welds, and 3 ribs. My guess-timation is that these are from 86's. Worth noting that the same features are found on the non-Berlinetta console pictured.

Past experience tells me the 84/85 Berlinettas all used nylon studs. I THINK the 86 used aluminum - but it's been a LONG time since I've had an 86 Berlinetta and I just can't be sure about that !


Edit: The 3 console at the bottom of the pic are hardtop,... .the 2 consoles at the top and the 1 vertical are T-Top.


Hope that helps a little !

 

And I was wondering what the hell I have that purple wire for.
Thanks for clearing that up!
Now a wiring diagram would be great.

 

I really appreciate all of you guys adding all the little tidbits that will hopefully lead to a consensus. I found this thread on nythirdgen.COMhttp://s9.zetaboards.com/nythirdgen/topic/7374856/1/
my 1984 camaro berlinetta build: (PIC HEAVY)
There is a photo of the overhead console and a build sheet listing DK6 as "con roof 319".


The photo is not real sharp, but I think the button labels MAY be absent. What do you see?

 

Wow, John in RI, That clears things up all right! Last night I found an 85 trans am for sale that had a picture of the overhead console that appeared to have lettering AND only 2 ribs, but the quality was so bad i did not submit it. So it appears to be an evolution in design in the early years, my type 1 console probably being 84 NON - Berlinetta because it lacks the purple wire for the automatic dome shut off feature. Is that correct?

 

My 84z28 has the original factory console, nylon bushings, 2 post, no labels.

 

Thanx 1LE! Your input underscores what the data seems to add up to:

The answer to my question appears to be that my "type 1 is BOTH manufacturer specific and early.

While annomalies are always probable as new designs are sometimes introduced in mid-manufacturing cycle, the evidence we have gathered SEEMS to suggest the following:

1984: no labels, 2 ribs (Chevrolet exclusive)
1985: labels, 2 ribs (at least in the Pontiac, we have not determined what Chevy used)
1986-1987: labels, 3 ribs (by far more the most common style)

A salute to all who participated, and as always, further additions, clarifications are welcome.

 

I was wondering if these had the little stamping a lot of plastic pieces had, where they would emboss date and time for when it was made... Usually it is in an inconspicuous place.

Edit: I would look at the 3 or 4 I have hidden in my back room... but they are buried.

John...

 

Mine has a few of them, but I don't think they will tell you much.

 

My type one has the exact same numbers on it. It is probably an NOS/OEM part number. I doubt it will reveal a date. GM parts date codes begin with a letter A for january etc. There are no letters in these codes I'm afraid, but it WAS a nice thought while it lasted.

I am curious about the circle with 12 divisions and a "1" about 2 o'clock with an hour hand pointing to 9 o'clock. Again, mine is identical. Could 1 be january and both of our parts built in August? That would fall in a typical build month. Anyone have the "hand" or dash mark pointing to a different quadrant?

 

Re:"I am curious about the circle with 12 divisions and a "1" about 2 o'clock with an hour hand pointing to 9 o'clock. Again, mine is identical. Could 1 be january and both of our parts built in August? That would fall in a typical build month. Anyone have the "hand" or dash mark pointing to a different quadrant?"

Been researching gm mold casting clocks...

"Casting Clock
On some ... blocks, intakes and exhausts a "clock" was cast into the block. The clock is a circle of 10 dots, one dot for each hour of a shift (usually 10 hour shifts). An arrow points to the beginning of the shift an another dot outside the circle indicates what time of day the cast part was made. Anyways, that's what that circle thing is (if you happen to see it on something).

NastyZ28 has that backwards. The two dots signifies the start of the shift, and the arrowhead points to the hour of that shift when the casting was poured. Additionally, the type of screw in the arrowhead shows whether it was cast on days or nights (flat head screw is days, round head screw is nights). In later years, a "D" or "N" adjacent to the clock indicated the shift."

...could be of no value after all.

 

What is the difference between a T-Top console and a Hardtop console? Any physical differences? Can a Hardtop console be used in a T-Top car?

 

The upper console is from a T-top; the lower along with its reinforcement piece is from a coupe (The reinforcement piece is typically left in-car when the console is yanked).

More info can be found in the following link:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/faq-...oth-types.html

JamesC

 

Thank you. Very informative post!

 

Another article I read talked about these part numbers. It said that they refer to the ORIGINAL engineering diagram the molds were made from and that it is common for revisions of that mold to have the same number, as it is still referencing the original idea, not the revision. Chances are all 3 types have identical numbering.

More info on GM mold cast clocks (pertaining to those found on manifolds and other cast iron pieces) can be read or downloaded in PDF format at: http://www.camaros.org/pdf/cast_codes.pdf

 

I would imagine that if they improved a design or changed a design and in fact it was intended to replace the previous design, and the new design could interchange with the old design there would be no reason to change the part number. This would keep the Parts catalogs more simple.

One thing I noticed about the parts catalogs is they often had multiple listings for the same part. It was not like they just updated the IPC with every year, they added to it sometimes and other times they changed the years. I can find an example in almost every section.

I did just learn that it appears that the overhead console RPO was DK6... They do show 84 for the first year it was on the Firebird, but that really does not mean anything... There is no mention of the Overhead console, in the product pocket book or the brochures

 

Interesting they would list a console for an 84 firebird in the catalog. According to Brother Al, Admin at NeCamaroFirebird.org
"(FYI no '82-'84 Bird had the overhead console option)..."
http://www.necamaro-firebird.org/for...php?f=3&t=7615
But keep in mind he also posted this at the 82-84 firebirdzone at earlythirdgen.com
"in 1985, the overhead console became available in any Firebird or Camaro. There was two versions, Ttop & hardtop, & the flashlights had either a Camaro or Firebird logo cast into them, GM used a generic one after 1990 I think...."
http://www.earlythirdgen.com/forums/...t=277&start=20

Was he referring to NOS replacement flashlights perhaps?

The article on the history of the firebird posted by the Pontiac club of Norway states "... attempts to put the 1985 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am model into higher regard include a new digital dash and a new overhead console.The console in the 1985 Firebird includes two manually adjusted reminder wheels, a positionable map light, a removeable "Firebird" flashlight, and a small pocket for a garage door opener or sunglasses."http://www.pontiacclubnorway.no/inde...ebird-Trans-Am
(this appears to be a copy and pasted version of the wikipedia write-up)
Another book by John Gunnel "Standard Catalog of Firebird 1967-2002" states that even the s/e, firbird's version of the Berlinetta did not get the console until 1985.



This does not mean anomalies may not exist in 84 birds. Pontiac had a habit of trying things out in the previous year before admitting to their existence in sales literature. One example is the body strengthening that Mr Gunnel lists as a 1992 introduction. It is known that Pontiac began doing this at least mid run on the 1991 models before advertising it as a new feature in 1992.
"Beginning with the 1991 model year, GM pioneered some modified assembly techniques with the F-body Camaro and Firebird which were carried forward into the fourth generation. Different seam sealers, structural adhesives and body assembly techniques were employed in key areas, in an effort to reduce squeaks and rattles and improve the perception of quality."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrol..._generation%29
"If you’re shopping the salvage yards for a Camaro or Firebird tub for a project, the 1991 and 1992 chassis make better starting points. As the tolerances in GM’s dies became larger over the years, the company started to use structural adhesive to put the cars together in the later years; this makes for a strong platform. "
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/junkyard-jam/

The hunt for the truth continues...

 

Keep in mind that the Parts catalogs are often model specific, for example I have 2, one for firebird, one for Camaro. However that does not mean they use the same information and often copy a section and paste it into another. The fact that there is no overhead console on any 1984 Firebird would not matter because no one would come into the parts department asking for one...

Truth be told, in the parts catalogs, I found a reference to 1990 3.8 Turbo parts... Does not mean there was any made however. There are mistakes here and there, but for the most part they are reliable. Mostly I have found the mistakes to include other years that options were not offered

John

 

Interesting,in 86 the Overhead Console was Standard on the Firebird SE,but it also says the Subwoofer Controls are in it.wonder if that was a typo.

 

It may not mean that the subwoofer controls were in the OHC, as much as the Subwoofer controls were included when you ordered the OHC, like a mini package. More or less you could not get just the OHC, you got the SWC if you ordered the OHC. however you could order the SWC without the OHC...

Edit: the Acronyms make me feel like I am in the government...

 

[QUOTE=okfoz;

Edit: the Acronyms make me feel like I am in the government...[/QUOTE]

 

Thanks for posting the options list! I love reading this kind of stuff.
I remember reading about the console as a package the other night. Here are the relevent posts I read on IROCZONE.com, most of which we already know.

"There are two styles of interior roof consoles (RPO DK6). One is designed to fit a hardtop and a second for t-top models. The hardtop console is more "rounded" to fit the slope of the roof whereas the t-top design is much flatter. They will not interchange. Camaros and Firebird consoles are the same and all contain a removable rectangular flashlight.

The console was introduced in 1984 and ran thru the 1987 model year. It was standard equipment on Berlinettas (1984 - 1986) and optional on all others ($50). It was not available separately in 1987, it was part of an option package."

"After doing a little research, yes the roof console was an option in 87 ... whether or not it has a flashlight .. well, didn't say. Option package FRA3 I think it was."

http://www.iroczone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3377

Lots more info on 1987 option packages can be found in THIS forum, of course:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...uantities.html

 

I thought this thread was funny to read Scott ask these questions... We were all noob's at one time I guess. I forget how much I didn't know when I first got my 87 Formula... I used to believe all sorts of things, like no 350 cars with T-tops, etc..

 

I have one for an 87 t-top if you need pics for reference. Would it have been different at all?

Did the odometer wheels keep track of mileage (meaning move with the dash odo?) or were they strictly manual and for reference purposes?