no, you don't have to cut or notch anything if you remove the ac

How did you guys go about wiring it the setup?

 

yeah is wiring more complicated the the LT1 swap?

 

WIth the ls1 you need custom motor mounts. I beileve with the lt1 you won't. The lt1 should also be able to use your 3rd gen tranny, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

i meant is the wiring mor complicated then the LT1 swap, as in the previous question. I knwo yuo do need neew mounts and stuff.

but the wiring seems to be complicated.



Shane

 

Wiring is more complicated in the LS1

 

Would you need to get a new accesory belt for the LS1 if it doesn't have the compressor? Or is there an A/C delete pulley like the 1LE setup on a thirdgen?

 

The LS1 Ac compressor has its very own belt! Just take it off and voila! No having to replace it with anything.

But I have a question, how do I wire my ignition up? I have power to my gauges and lights, but nothing when I turn the key. I figure I haven't hooked up the ignition yet? All I've done is hook the red/pink/purple wires from c100 to 12v+. I know I hooked up one I shouldn't have cause I have constant power to the gauges even with the key off.

I hate wiring.

 

You need to bypass your VATs.

 

I have a unit that bypasses the ls1 vats, I believe it's hooked up right:
at the pcm harnesses:
(red)pin 11 DK BLU VTD Fuel Enable
(blue)pin 19 PNK PCM Ignition 1 Feed
(blue)pin 21 BLK PCM Ground

This is the unit I'm talking about, from baker electronics, I can't find thier damn webpage but here's an auction for the item:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2467215773

Do the Wires I cited above sound like they'd work?

I have the appropriate key for my 3rd gen vats, shouldn't I be able to leave that, or will it not function because of the engine/pcm swap?

Since I have a new ls1 and computer, can I just tear out the old vats and be done with it?

 

Near the C100/C101/C105 connectors on the LS1 engine harness, there's a single-pin connector with a purple wire...that's the starter solenoid trigger wire.

On your third-gen, the key output for this is on C100...the connector on the firewall driver side under the relay bracket.

Find it, connect the two, and you'll have startage.

-Kevin

 

Why go through so much headaches and worries on the LS1 conversion and just go buy a new higher Horse Power engine for out third gen???

Another problem I see is the car won't be like the factory new condition either after all the changes. I know 92GTA and myself have our 4 birds like mint new, so I would not go for it.

I am waiting for my factory 5.7 on my '91 Formula to go and I am getting a big bad GM crate engine to go right in and swap the old out. Not picking on anyone, but that's my 2 cents. Andy

 

My car had a 305 TPI. I was not happy with the performance. If I had an L98 setup I might have thought otherwise. I then made the decision that the car was not going to be a concorus show car so I wanted improvemtent over the factory setup.

My conversion is factory like in appreance. Looking at the car the LS1 looks right at home. The results were well worth it. Excellent performance, fuel economy, and significantly reduced weight.

Now the aftermarket is supplying all the mounts, etc. needed for the conversion I would argue there is no reason not to do it.

 

Uh...if factory new condition is a big thing w/ you, better reconsider the big bad GM crate engine. Not quite factory new.

 

Other than wiring, the LS1 swap was, IMO quite easy. only a step harder than a straight engine replacement. Much easier than the vr4 engine swap I did recently, and that was a stock engine swap. I'm sure the wiring isn't a big deal to someone with a bit of automotive wiring experience. Having done the swap I feel I could do it again in a weekend. It's only a headache trying to figure out what wires connect to what.

If I had a super rare or low mileage original car then no I wouldn't do it. But then of course I wouldn't want to because I wouldn't drive it. In which case I wouldn't own it.

BTW, I hooked up the purple wire and still no go. I haven't touched the car in a week, no rush with this blasted weather. I most likely blew some fuses when I hooked up the ignition to 12+.

 

It was Jeff's car until about a year and a half ago when we bought it from him to do this swap into it. Who's this?

Update on my car-
The car is fine, runs great, I love the Baer brakes, the Currie 9", and all that stuff. I haven't done the A/C yet, because it's not so much a priority right now. I've got a cam for it that I've had awhile, so I'm thinking about installing it. Or building another engine like I've talked about for awhile. Anyway I updated my web-site with some swap pics for ya'll to see. My car looks pretty factory too, I used the stock fuel lines even and it shows how I did it. I still need to mount my AIR Pump, and some other little stuff but I've been too lazy and the car went to the back burner for awhile. I'd like to take everything off the car and do something kind of like Roy did to his vert, but time, money and space prohibit that right now so yea.

Link- Click Here.

Later,
Brad

I hooked up the heater and all, but don't have new pics if it yet.

 

Just to update a few of the Q&A....

The VATS needs to be by-passed

The Tach still doens't work, only reads 60% of what the actual RPM is

Oil Pressue gauge is no problem

You can re-use the stock 3rd Gen A/C and not have to worry about notching the frame for the LS1 accessories

Speedometer can workm with some computer programming

 

its me jon wong. you tried to sell me the ripper shifter. im friends with carone wheatley and reader. i was teh one who neede z71 wheels a couple of weeks ago.

 

Really there are no headaches, it's really straight forward to do this swap.

A good reason to do it is the new technology is far superior to anything from back in the day. The mileage kicks *** too and it's totally 100% reliable to use a stock LS1 over a crate engine that produces the same hp, but not as efficently and its all aluminum too.

Also my car looks very factory under the hood, so factory that I get asked if my car is stock quite often, even when the hood is up.

 

This point is always overlooked by people who are looking to create horsepower......

You can make the same amount of horsepower as a internally and computer modified SBC, with an LS1 with just bolt-ons and not effecting it's internal or electrical systems, protecting it's reliability.

For some people, it's not practical to have to worry if their car will make it 200 miles from home without worrying about something failing.....

An Engine that can retain STOCK configurations will be realiable, and when it's creating near 300 HP at the wheels in that form, it's always a plus

 

Well, I'm sure others have wondered the same thing, and since this is a Q&A, here it goes.

#1
What are the year/model differences of LS1 motors in Camaros, Z28s, Firebirds, (and their high-perf ver.), and Vettes? I've been trying to find information since I know that they produce 310-340 horsepower and 340-360? torque, depending on the model of the car, so I want to get the most powerful of the LS1s if I'm doing a swap. Is there a engine code/vin that will tell me what version it is?

#2
I've heard that some later model ('99-up?) LS1s (or LS6s?) didn't have EGR because they changed something in the cams and they meet the low-emissions standards or something. Does this cause a loss in performance because they've made the engine more smog effecient without? Would it screw it up if I added a radical cam?

#3
Does the '94-'97 T56 tranny (w/the .5 overdrive) out of a Camaro/Firebird/vette bolt up to the LS1? The reason I ask is because if I remember correctly, the '94-'97 GM F-bodys came with LT1s, not LS1s, so I'm not sure if the bolt pattern is the same.

Thanks.

 

1997-1998 have crappy computers and paper/rubber gaskets. '99+ have better computers and increasingly nicer software, and the engines use metal shim gaskets with imprinted neoprene or silicon bead seals.

2001+ have LS6 intakes from the factory, and no EGR.

2002+ have better pistons and rings, less prone to piston slap or oil consumption.

Get a copy of Chris Endres' book on LS1/LS6 performance, more details there.

2001 and up don't have EGR. Radical cams, particularly ones with a lot of overlap, create some amount of exhaust gas recirculation by design, so the valve isn't needed. As for loss of performance, the '01 and up made same or more power than the '00 and down engines.

Not without modifications or an expensive McLeod conversion bellhousing. Input shaft length is different, bellhousing bolt pattern is slightly different but only leaves out one bolt IIRC. This is covered in the Transmission forum here.

 

KevinC,

In order to keep this as a technical reference...

What times are you running with your current LS1 set-up in the thirdgen? And what HP numbers are you putting with your specs? What suspension modifications did you perform to keep the frame reinforced with the new power?

 

So far only one track, Pocono East 1min 11sec. Haven't dyno'd yet and I don't drag race.

I have SSM subframe connectors, welded at both ends and every 2" along the body. Moog 5662 front springs minus 1/2 coil, SSS 250# rear springs.

 

Any updates on doing the wiring your self? I'd rather not spend $750 on a wiring harness..... I know some of you guys have done it yourself, PLEASE post info! Thanks!!


*Oh yeah, I have almost everything to do my LS1/T56 swap including heads, cam, LS6 intake, headers, ASP pulley, etc, etc... it should be quite healthy and surprise a few cars

 

I don't mind posting my connector pinouts some night, but they're worthless unless you're swapping a 2001 LS1 into a 1982 Z28 with Cross Fire Injection. The pin locations vary widely on the 3rd gen side. The '82 C100 pin F5 is 12VDC, but on '88 C100 it's F4. Oil pressure sending unit is on C100 for mine, C207 for the '88. TCC brake pedal switch, same thing. Fuel pump power lead, same.

You can save $$ by shopping EBay or Dal at Vandevere Olds for a Helms manual for your car and one for the LS1. They're both good investments, should cost less than $200 total brand new, and you'll need them down the road when the LS1 gets the hiccups or you want to mod it.

 

Can a 700r4 bolt to the LS1?

 

yup yup, i8t can sure botl up, so can a t-5.

 

how about the guages? Anyone swapped them in yet? Also, will i have room for the clutch (from the t56 of course) if I have kick panels? I plan on custom making those so if clearance is an issue I will have to try to work around it.

 

ok im not clear on the electronic speedo / tach recalibration... how will i do this... is it controlled in the ECU?

 

Anyone????? I'm interested as well!

 

everyone please note that the jba shorty headers do not technically fit in the third gen. On my applicatoin the air tube on the passenger side was sitting on the k-member. I ended up bending the living sh*t out of it. Also, the drivers side O2 doesn't fit either, this really pissed me off, I'm probably going to have to plug the original hole, extend the connector wires and have the exhaust shop put a new hole for me farther down (the frame was in the way).

 

The speedo can be recalibrated through the use of a computer.....

 

I havent visited this board in awhile, but am glad that i got back around too it. Reallay enjoy this post, and am really considering this swap when i get out of school. but first i have a couple questions that were hit upon but maybe i didn't really understand the answers or just somehow skipped over them.

fuel lines? i read that some of you are using AN fittings to modify your fuel lines to adapt to the fuel rail and what not, correct? and that you are also splitting off of this line for a return line as i understand it? or that the fuel rails off of a 97-98 Vette are a possibility as they had the return line on them.

but here is what I'm wondering about. if the LS1 of 98 and up didn't require, let alone come factory with the return line, then what is the point?

also cooling for the engine. I'm not real sure what these engines run at to begin with, 210 I'm assuming. now what are you guys doing as far as cooling goes, are you changing radiators or just using the one for the 305-350 that you had in before. I have a 355 in my car now and the damn thing runs much hotter than i would like, which is actually just around the 210-220 mark. but any mods you have done to this aspect would be useful in knowing.

 

have another question.

i realize that many of the post on this thread are rather dated, and that many of them predict/expect a tubular K-member to have been produced by now. I've looked and havent found this to be true yet. but i was thinking, if a tubular k-member was to be bought cound't you do the install from underneath the car? any thoughts that it migh be quicker to do it this way?

 

You can do the install from underneath. I would not reccomend a tubular K member unless it is a drag car. You can buy LS1 mounts that work with the factory K member.

 

hawks makes the tubular k-member.. its like 450US

not sure what you mean about the fuel lines?

you have two lines on a stock tpi.. feed and return.. you need an adapter that converts it into a single line source.. ala 58psi so you use the aeromotive thingy

you can also use the 97 vette rails as they have a return line

so you convert the stock lines into an fittings with earls adapters or what not.. then you go into the regulator with feed and return then run the one line of the regulator to the the stock ls1 lines with an adapter (ss to an) that you get at some other place, cant come up with the name off the top

there are probably more then one way to do that..

 

right, i understand that the TPI is a return system, but was thinking that the LS1 was a returnless system.

but anyways, what you're saying is that essentially you are making a "returnless system" in that no fuel returns to the tank just to the regulator. am i correct in my understanding?

 

I got the JTR tailhousing. My problem is there is no provision to mount the transmission mount.


What are ya'll doing about this?

 

The LS1 FUEL LINES are returnless, however you don't need to install LS1 fuel lines, just use your stock thirdgen ones....

Here is a picture of the afpr that needs to be installed to regulate the PSI for the fuel......

LS1 engines regulate the fuel pressure at the tank and therefore don't need a return line, however you can simply regulate it before the fuel rail and not worry about all the return line problems........

 

Yeah, I have the same fuel system setup...

 

someone may find this useful (from 1999 camaro 5.7L LS1):



Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector End Views


Connector Part Information
PCM Connector C1 Assembly 12191489
TPA (BLU) 12176408
Connector Cover 12191108

Pin
Wire Color
Circuit No.
Function

1
BLK
451
PCM Ground

2
LT GRN
1867
Crankshaft Position Sensor B+ Supply

3
PNK/BLK
1746
Injector 3 Control

4
LT GRN/BLK
1745
Injector 2 Control

5-7
--
--
Not Used

8
GRA
596
TP Sensor 5V Reference

9-10
--
--
Not Used

11
LT BLU
1876
Knock Sensor Signal Rear

12
DK BLU/WHT
1869
Crankshaft Position Sensor Signal

13-16
--
--
Not Used

17
DK BLU
1225
Transmission Range Signal B

18
RED
1226
Transmission Range Signal C

19
PNK
439
Ignition Positive Voltage

20
ORN
340
Battery Positive Voltage

21
YEL/BLK
1868
Crankshaft Position Sensor Reference Low

22
--
--
Not Used

23
GRA
720
Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor/Fuel Tank Sender Ground

24
--
--
Not Used

25
TAN
1671
HO2S Signal Low Bank 2 Sensor 2

26
TAN
1667
HO2S Signal Low Bank 2 Sensor 1

27
--
--
Not Used

28
TAN/WHT
1669
HO2S Signal Low Bank 1 Sensor 2

29
TAN/WHT
1653
HO2S Signal Low Bank 1 Sensor 1

30-31
--
--
Not Used

32
GRY
48
Clutch Pedal Position Switch Signal

33
PPL
420
TCC Brake Switch

34
ORN/BLK
434
PNP Switch Signal

35
--
--
Not Used

36
BLK
1744
Injector 1 Control

37
YEL/BLK
846
Injector 6 Control

38-39
--
--
Not Used

40
BLK
451
PCM Ground

41
BLK
407
EGR Pintle Position Sensor Ground

42
DK GRN
335
Engine Cooling Fan Relay 1 Control

43
RED/BLK
877
Injector 7 Control

44
LT BLU/BLK
844
Injector 4 Control

45
GRA
474
A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor 5V Reference

46
GRA
474
Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor 5V Reference

47
GRA
416
EGR Pintle Position Sensor 5V Reference

48
GRA
416
MAP Sensor 5V Reference

49-50
--
--
Not Used

51
DK BLU
496
Knock Sensor Signal Front

52
--
--
Not Used

53
BLK
407
Transmission Temperature Sensor Ground

54
ORN/BLK
407
MAP Sensor Ground

55
BRN
1456
EGR Pintle Position Sensor Signal

56
--
--
Not Used

57
ORN
340
Battery Positive Voltage

58
DK GRN
1049
Serial Data

59
--
--
Not Used

60
BLK
452
TP Sensor Ground

61
PNK/BLK
632
Camshaft Position Sensor Reference Low

62-64
--
--
Not Used

65
PPL
1670
HO2S Signal High Bank 2 Sensor 2

66
PPL
1666
HO2S Signal High Bank 2 Sensor 1

67
--
--
Not Used

68
PPL/WHT
1668
HO2S Signal High Bank 1 Sensor 2

69
PPL/WHT
1665
HO2S Signal High Bank 1 Sensor 1

70
BRN
1174
Low Oil Level Switch

71-72
--
--
Not Used

73
BRN/WHT
633
Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Signal

74
YEL
410
Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor Signal

75
--
--
Not Used

76
BLK/WHT
845
Injector 5 Control

77
DK BLU/WHT
878
Injector 8 Control

78
--
--
Not Used

79
GRA or WHT
587 or 687
Skip Shift Solenoid Control (M/T) or 3-2 Shift Solenoid Control (A/T)

80
BLK
407
Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor Ground

 

Connector Part Information
PCM Connector C2 Assembly 12191488
TPA (RED) 12176410
Connector Cover 12191108

Pin
Wire Color
Circuit No.
Function

1
BLK
451
PCM Ground

2
BRN
418
TCC Control Solenoid

3
--
--
Not Used

4
PPL
421
AIR Solenoid Relay Control

5
--
--
Not Used

6
RED/BLK
1228
Transmission Fluid Pressure Control Solenoid High

7
RED
1676
EGR Control

8
LT BLU/WHT
1229
Transmission Fluid Pressure Control Solenoid Low

9
DK GRN/WHT
465
Fuel Pump Relay Control

10
WHT
121
Engine Speed (Tach) Output Signal

11-12
--
--
Not Used

13
WHT
85
Cruise Control Enable Signal

14
RED/BLK
380
A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal

15
RED
225
Alternator L Terminal

16
--
--
Not Used

17
DK GRN/WHT
762
A/C Request Signal

18
DK GRN
59
A/C Status Signal

19
--
--
Not Used

20
LT GRN/BLK
822
Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Reference Low

21
PPL/WHT
821
Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) Signal

22-23
--
--
Not Used

24
DK BLU
417
TP Sensor Signal

25
TAN
472
IAT Sensor Signal

26
PPL
2121
Ignition Control 1

27
RED
2127
Ignition Control 7

28
LT BLU/WHT
2126
Ignition Control 6

29
DK GRN/WHT
2124
Ignition Control 4

30
DK BLU
229
VTD Fuel Enable Signal

31
YEL
492
MAF Sensor Signal

32
LT GRN
432
MAP Sensor Signal

33
DK BLU
473
Engine Cooling Fan Relay 2 and 3 Control

34
DK GRN/WHT
428
EVAP Canister Purge Valve Control

35
--
--
Not Used

36
BRN
436
AIR Pump Relay Control

37
DK GRN
83
Cruise Control Inhibit

38
--
--
Not Used

39
RED
631
Camshaft Position Sensor B+ Supply

40
BLK
451
PCM Ground

41
GRA
435
EGR Position Sensor Ground

42
TAN/BLK
422
TCC Enable Circuit

43
DK GRN/WHT
459
A/C Clutch Relay Control

44
LT GRN
1652
Reverse Inhibit Solenoid Control

45
WHT
1310
EVAP Canister Vent Valve Control

46
BRN/WHT
419
Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control

47
YEL/BLK
1223
Transmission Shift Solenoid B

48
LT GRN
1222
Transmission Shift Solenoid A

49
--
--
Not Used

50
DK GRN/WHT
817
Vehicle Speed Output Circuit

51
YEL/BLK
1227
Transmission Temperature Sensor Signal

52
--
--
Not Used

53
GRA/BLK
1687
Spark Retard Signal

54
PPL
1589
Fuel Level Sensor Signal

55-56
--
--
Not Used

57
PPL
719
IAT Sensor Ground

58-59
--
--
Not Used

60
BRN
2129
Ignition Control Reference Low Bank 1

61
BRN/WHT
2130
Ignition Control Reference Low Bank 2

62
--
--
Not Used

63
PNK
1224
Transmission Range Signal A

64
DK GRN
890
Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal

65
--
--
Not Used

66
PPL/WHT
2128
Ignition Control 8

67
RED/WHT
2122
Ignition Control 2

68
DK GRN
2125
Ignition Control 5

69
LT BLU
2123
Ignition Control 3

70-75
--
--
Not Used

76
LT GRN/WHT
1749
IAC Coil B High

77
LT GRN/BLK
444
IAC Coil B Low

78
LT BLU/BLK
1748
IAC Coil A Low

79
LT BLU/WHT
1747
IAC Coil A High

80
--
--
Not Used





© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

 

sorry for the lack of formating, won't let me use tables.

 

I think the wiring harness are the same for 98 and up? So if I had a 2002 computer, would this wiring set up work also?

 

97-98 LS1 PCMs use completely different pinouts than the 99-02 PCMs.

 

Knyghtmare speaks the truth...here's a 99 pinout:

http://teamzr1.com/pcmecm/99pinpcm.html

 

There is a suggestion to use JTR tailhousings to do the electronic to mechanical speedo conversion.

There are two tailhousings that can be bought:

One for the camaro and the one for a caprice.

The one for the camaro will not mount to a crossmember but has provision to mount the torque arm to tailhousing.

THe one for the caprice will mount to the crossmember but will not mount the torque arm to tailhousing.

 

Updated 1'st and 2'nd post with more info and stuff, let me know if there is anything else i should add.

 

Hey,

Im about 3/4's done swappin in a 98 ls1 4l60e with other mods...tubular kmember/tubular a-arms from hawks, eibach pro-kit, ect...

My question was what to do about vacuum lines? I know a decent amount about cars but vacuum lines are a very abstract idea to me ...I know what they look like I just dont know what and where to hook them up on the ls1 swap? If any one knows please respond.

 

A little more info...

Oil Pressure gauge will work. The plug(s) that goes into the car, off of the LS1 harness, will have the wire on it that sends the oil pressure signal. Just find the tan (oil pressure sending unit) wire that goes to the C100 bulkhead connector (factory body wiring), and cut it on the inside of the car, then run it to the plug/wire described above.

Also, on the fuel system, I'm currently using a 99 Vette Regulator/Filter assembly in my car. Works perfect and I think it will end up costing less than a new regulator, fuel rails and fuel lines, but not for sure on that. You could mount it anywhere you want, but mine is near the old fuel filter location under the drivers side back seat. This eliminates the need for the old return line running all of the way to the motor, you still need one, but it will only be about 3 feet long. BTW, the return line comes right off of the filter/regulator assembly. It was about $60.

Just thought I would add that.