Thanks for the answer

 

Mr. Dude, that OBDII connector pin out looks confusing, not sure what those pins are for, but these are the ones you need to communicate.

2 - Serial Data
4 - Ground
5 - Ground
16 - switched 12V

This is for the female connector when you are looking at it, the one that is mounted under the dash is the female side.

 

Surrrreeee

 

just because your car sucks at putting down an amount of hp that could get a solid 11 second pass does not mean that everyones car is underengineered. hey i have a suggestion, instead of building more power to go faster, why dont you try to make the car hook up? i have video of the car making a 7.99@85.2 pass in the 1/8 mile. would you like to see? i built that motor for $985 and many people said it would never run a sub-8sec 1/8 miles pass. and you calling bs further states the fact that this website is overpopulated with members who think they know what is possible. take a look at the fastest pass a magazine made in a stock 2004 zo6, it went 11's with only 371rwhp. on stock tires. instead of thinking you know the answers, try and think about possibilities that are beyond what you have seen.

 

Congrats! Have you turned the key yet?

 

heh, thanks... actually, thats the wrong ODBII connector... i just grabbed the pic and apparently grabbed the wrong one...

im going to take it down, so i dont confuse anyone.

 

yup.

plus everything uses the stock 3rdgen wiring route... basicly going from the drivers side bulkhead, under the brake booster across the back of the engine, and down the passenger "frame rail"

Still need HP tuners before i can drive it, and i dont have the cooling system hooked up yet, but its almost there..

 

Using Weatherpak connector hoods was a slick idea. If I hadn't scored a used '99 chassis harness with all the C100, C105, etc. hoods intact that would have been a good alternative.

 

the chassis harness connectors are what i really wanted... i didnt want to cut the harness at all.


but, i couldnt get them.. atleast not in a reasonable time frame... so i got impatient.. one of my friends works at a place that has every weatherpack connector you could think of. a whole wall is filled with drawer seta that are litterally taller then i am...

i got the connectors, crimpers pins, ect from him.. anyone looking at it would think its stock connectors.
i even used a new weatherpack connector on the 98 coolent sensor..


and i got some nice packard wire ment for harnesses.. so everything is still color coded the same. the only change is the tan oil pressure wire is a diffrent shade of tan. lol.

its pimp.
i'll have pics as soon as its not really friggen cold.

 

Nice score on the wiring. That Packard TXL stuff is expensive, and the cheap stuff isn't what I'd want under my hood.

Another case where the used '99 chassis harness paid off bigtime, it had every color/gauge/length combo of the good stuff I needed for the swap. Thinking back on it, pretty much any junkyard GM vehicle harness would have made for good wire harvesting.

I found Metri-Pak crimp pins at the local NAPA for the 4th gen C100/C105/etc. hoods as well as the OBD-2 connector. They had WeatherPak pins also, as did PepBoys.

9degF ambient temps up here today...check back w/ us on that 'it's friggin cold' thing.

 

Dude why are talking about 1/8th mile i dont even know a place around me that runs 1/8 miles, Its stupid.Secondly My car did hook an it hooked hard to i've talkin to a couple Quick 8 runners since you first started to post this **** and we all call BS.My friend is rockin a car that weighs 2900 pounds,with well over 650+hp car the car has seen 9's but could go 8's but theres no way your car will ever see it in the 1/4 Mile,Dont tell me i know nothing about cars I've be around then and building them for a long time now.You let me know when you car hits that time an if your close enough to were i live will see how real it is.

 

thats nice. you talked to the pros. you couldnt come to a conclusion about hp to lbs to et? do they build or modify ls1's? 1/8 mile is stupid?a 7.99 is equivalant to a 12.45, roughly. considering that you dont know about 1/8 mile times, that makes you ignorant, not 1/8 mile stupid. what 60' foot did you run? i said your car was underengineered because you could run faster. it dosnt matter how many cars you worked around, its your car that matters. your maybe angry becuase i built my motor for less money then you have in your heads,and went just as fast. ive always done more with less, i think its rediculous to spend alot of money to do what you could do for thousands less.

 

you both need to chill a bit...
i dont think anyone cares what you run.. if he wants to be slow let him... and if you think you cant go any faster, fine.
just dont get the thread locked because of pointless bickering.

anyhoo, heres the ODBII connection i ment to post orignally.. the colors match the pigtail i have.. yours might not match colors, but the pinout is the same.



EDIT: John Spears corrected me... that ALDL connector pic i had wasnt correct... pin 16 is BATTERY not ignition power.

 

I agree, the pointless arguing about HP to weight ratio, 1/8 mile ET's has no place in this thread. Please guys, knock it off.


Mr. Dude, that pinout looks much better. Also, you are going to love the Hptuners when you get it. I spent 12 hours messing around with it on the laptop when I first got it. Still dont understand it all, but I'm working on that.

 

EXACTLY... and that is what its all about... this is not pointless bickering... Vejatabul is exactly right and its funny to see people speculate and question is theories/times/HP#'s, etc, etc... when most people do just that.... SPECULATE. Go out and try the "different" things like him and others have tried and see where it gets you... experience and finding things that work.... the most popular thing to do isn't always the best and racing and building cars couldn't be a better example!

*These posts go along with this post b/c this ideology on cars/engine swaps is exactly true!

 

I think this "THREAD" was originally started to give a good overview of the LS1 swap in a thirdgen. I agree, the first guy who called BS on Vejatabul was out of line, but to get in a pissing match over it in this thread is uncalled for.

Also, I have done my swap and know what it runs, but it does'nt mean anything in this thread. This argument should be taking place over on the Theroetical/Street Racing board IMHO. But, who cares, do what you want.

Hopefully all of this will get deleted.

 

if i ever get some free time, i kinda want to redo this thread back into a FAQ.... if you (or anyone else) have some more swap tips to throw in, it would be nice to get this thread back on track.


i'll start off:
the Fbody harness needs two power inputs that thirdgens dont have a fuse for:

• Trans/EGR power
• MAF/O2 sensor power

you'll need to run two more relays underhood to support them.
the trans/EGR needs a 15A fused connection and the MAF/O2 needs a 20A fused connection.. both relays should trip on when the ignition is on, including when starting.
theres a trigger wire in the bulkhead connector that is used for other relays that could be used for this, athough i triggered thoes two relays with the stock coil power wire, since it was not used.

 

There's a good cam chart to follow by. To get deep into 11s with only a cam, you're going to have to past extreme. Probably something with a 240/240 cam, and that car will barely be streetable.

 

And the lift used on most of the extreme cams are going to require modifications due to piston/valve clearance issues........ something that again adds both time AND more parts into the cost equation.

I too would like to see this thread returned to a cleaned up FAQ format - no need to call "BS" on something if people stop speculating on what they THINK they can do, and only post on what they KNOW can be done because they HAVE DONE IT already themselves, or have SEEN it done firsthand by someone they personally know.

In my opinion, the ONLY statements on this thread concerning ETs and power outputs should be graphics of time slips and dyno graphs.

Nice cam chart, by the way!! That is a definitely positive addition to this thread.

 

What adapters are needed, if any, to run a LS1 into a th350, I'm thinking about buying a 5.3 and running it into my th350, i just want to know what i need, and i'll be able to bolt this thing up withought removing the tranny.

 

the bellhousing bolt pattern is the same, minus one bolt.. (where the #8 cyl is.)

as for the flexplate, i donno... do a search on LS1tech.com.. theres a few guys on there running 3spds in their 4thgens... they should have the answer..
athough i SUSPECT the converter bolt pattern is the same... but im not positive by anymeans. just observation from holding alot of SBC and LS1 converters in the past.

 

Sorry if this is a newb question....

Why does the engine harness need to be modified if the stock engine harness is going into the stock ecm?

It seems only the dash harness would need modified.

maybe i missed somthing...

 

YOU

ARE

A

GENIUS!

bingo.

if you were close, id buy you a beer.


you dont.

put your power into the stock harness... and snag your outputs for your gauges.

thats it.




but people are stupid.

 

If by saying "people are stupid" you mean one of the following, then I will agree:

1. People don't have the technical know-how to do their own wiring
2. People don't wish to take the time to do their own wiring
3. People are not 100% confident in their ability to re-wire their car and having everything work, nothing short, and be able to pass emissions and/or any other special concerns other than just "getting it running"

Your posts on this engine swap forum are getting beyond "aggressive," they have become both condescending and belligerent. If you feel so superior and smart, then why don't you open up your own business and do these swaps for a living? Maybe you can use a slogan like "Stupid people pay here."

 

I guess the fan(s), fuel pump, and reverse lights connect themselves automagically? Either that, or you're not quite as brilliant as you think.

For someone that posted a garbage pin map and shamelessly begged for help cleaning it up, and whose car has probably yet to hit the street, you sure do sport an attitude.

About the only thing right in your post was the "people are stupid" part. I fully agree.

 

Actually, my posts are condescending and belligerent.

His are just plain lame when you consider he needed lots of help getting his "easy" wiring mapped, and couldn't do it on his own.

 

Spoke with Bruce Hawkins the other day, and he is sending a car out for fitment of LT headers on a lowered, stock k-member 3rd gen on March 1st.

He should have LT headers available for sale around May.

 

that sounds good, although we've all seen similar situations before. custom pieces like this always seem to get the productions dates pushed back, a month to a year or more

i would love to see a set of headers put into production, but i wouldnt hold my breath to have them in may.

 

Hawks just began taking orders for their LT headers they look good. I am seriously debating on swapping a LS1 instead of my original idea of a 350/330hp motor cause gas is going up and fuel injection seems to be the way to go. 20+mpg with fuel injection 12+ with carburetor, hmm the debate. I know this is probably has been covered but about how much do one these swaps cost? I figure about 6-8K should cover everything to swap a stock LS1 no mods would I be about right?

 

Stock swap with no mods would be easy for under $6k, especially if you go automatic instead of 6 speed. (But still very doable even with the 6 speed).

 

Well I lost interest in the LS1 swap when I bought a new car, but now a friend of my brother totalled his 02 Corvette and might be selling the engine and trans so I'm thinking about it again. But I remember that the oil pan won't clear. Was the Corvette oil pan different because it needed more capacity or was it simply to fit in the Corvette? Can I just put an F-Body pan on? Is anything else different when swapping to a Corvette LS1 than to an F-Body LS1? Thanks.

 

From what I have read you can use the AC from a LS1 Corvette motor cause it sits higher than the FBody ones. I am still debating on LS1 or LT1 the swaps seem to be about the same cost maybe about 1K difference.

 

The oil pan just plain wont fit, swapping an F- Body pan and pick up fixes that problem.

The vette uses a fly by wire throttle body, you have to change to an F-Body unit or figure out how to get the vette pedals and such to work.

The exhaust manifolds have to be changed I think.

The vette accessories are mounted on the motor in different places. Not quite sure what kind of problems that creates.

What else....????????

All in all not that bad, you just have to hunt down some used parts and swap them over.

 

I want to do the LS1 swap into my 91 RS, and I make no claim to me mechanically smart (or even somewhat knowledgable) , and since my time and space is limited i was wondering if anyone knows of a place in southern Cali that will do the swap for me? How much would i be looking at for this in total (to not do my own labor)? Im just looking for a stock ls1, nothing special... Any help here would be awesome.

Also, if I take it to a shop, do you all think that id need to supply all the parts to do it? if so, wheres a good place to get all the parts i need? So far, ive got the LS1 Conversion Motor Mounts with Transmission Crossmember, ls1 conversion wiring harness, tach signal interface, and vats module from Hawksthirdgenparts.com for about $1030; and the ac brackets, complete fuel system and cold air intake setup from fbodymotorsports.com for about $800. Other than engine and transmission, what am i missing (if anything)

The fuel system details from their website:
Kit includes:

1 - Aeroquip 13109 Fuel Regulator
2 - Steel -6AN Braided Lines
1 - Fuel Rail Adapter to -6AN
2 - Unions -6AN
2 - Metric Fuel Line adapters to -6AN
* Fuel Pressure Gauge Optional
This kit works on:
85-92 305 & 350 TPI
88-92 305 TBI
85-92 2.8 & 3.1 V6

it looks like it covers just about everything for the fuel system, but if anyone has anything that should be added, please tell me.

So far, this brings my total parts to just short of $1900, less engine and trans which I have found that I can get for about $4000 shipped off of ebay. total then is about $6000. Any guesses on what labor might cost?

Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you for your time.
-Tim-

 

 

Has anyone used the ss hood and the fourth gen ss style air box together in their thirdgen??? is it possible??

 

I've read through this thread at least 4 times and I' m wondering if i missed something about the swap into a car with a cable driven speedometer. What exactly would i need to, make a t-56 work in say 85 - 89 Camaros?

 

common question.

you use one of these: http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/in...?v=1&pid=17491


it spins the cable with a electric motor to match the VSS signal.

 

Or if you want to get creative, you can put a dash and wiring harness out of a 90-92 Camaro in the car.

I swapped out the dash and underdash wiring for a 91 TransAm

 

I've got a question that I didn't see mentioned anywhere in this thread...

Can you take an LS1 complete with the LS1 k-member, struts/springs, steering rack, brakes, and all (basically everything between the front tires) and mount it all into a thirdgen?

I am going to do this swap in an 84 TA, and would like to have the better steering and brakes, but using an aftermarket LS1 tubular k-member and a-arms.

Has anyone done the swap this way?

 

Simply put, no. You can not bolt the front k-member, suspension, and R&P steering from a 4th gen onto a 3rd gen. You could cut/weld the entire frontend off a 4th gen to a 3rd gen and then figure out the rest... it has been done. I think fbodymotorsports or someone did it with a red with flames convertible camaro...

 

This is the car your talking about. Originally a hardtop. Converted to Vert, and it has a 4th gen firewall in it. Motor and 4th gen interior all bolted up the the firewall purfectly.

However, I'm pretty sure he isnt running the whole front clip....like the kmember and stuff

 

Yeah, that's the car... pretty sure he IS running the entire frontend... I think they used the firewall forward and grafted it onto the 3rd gen... I know someone has done it because the car was at Bowling Green, KY Fbody meet a few years ago and I saw it there... 4th gen strut towers and all. Almost 100% sure its that car... I have pics of it somewhere.


Yep, here's the pic... those aren't 3rd gen strut towers under there

ALL 4th gen up front... someone please reply knowing more about this thing....

 

Here's an even bigger view of that picture....

 

You dont want to know how much he spent on that car.

Anything is possible with enough time and money.

 

I didn't say it was cheap but if you do it yourself it is We just put a '81 Monte Carlo frontend under a '53 Chevy truck... stuff like this happens all the time, it's called hotrodding and streetrodding.

 

All I've got to say it that I will make it work somehow. Pics will be posted, of course

 

I have a 1991 Pontiac Trans-Am, with a Tuned Port 5.7ltr-350, with automatic transmission. I'm interested in doing an engine swap, and would like to use a 1998 to 2000 LS1-WS6 motor. what would I need to do to my car in order to make this swap possible? How much will it cost just for a swap, and will this motor mate to my 4L60E transmission, or will I have to use a different transmission? I'm looking for more performance over the tuned port without having to purchase a supercharger, Is this wise?

Thank You!

 

The answer to every single one of your questions has been covered in this thread and others.

As far as looking for more performance over the TPI without a blower, it depends on how MUCH performance you are looking for. For the cost of a complete engine swap including all of the recommended upgrades to the suspension, brakes, rear end, etc., you will EASILY spend twice as much as that supercharger will cost you. (Triple or more if you aren't doing the work yourself!) Yes, you'll make more power too with the LS1 - but you're going to pay for every hp of it.

 

My car was originally TBI can I use those fuel lines to run to the regulator and all that or do I need TPI lines. Seems that everyone that has done the swap was either a tpi car or a mpfi v6. What's the difference in tpi and tbi fuel lines?