Guys i searched and couldnt find the answers i need.

What would i need to make a ls2 transplanted into a 91 Z28 smog legal in california?


Now my next question is do i need to transplant a ls1 tank to make it work with the ls2 smog equipment?

I dont want to use the smog stuff thats currently on the 91, so thats coming out, what would i need to make it all work, a parts list would be perfect guys.

Oh and im going with a ls1 tank.

 

IIRC, the only emissions equipment a LS2 carries is EVAP.

To keep evap you need to do more wiring then the rest of us do. You need the PCM to know the tank pressure, fuel level etc to vent when it needs, then you will need have a line run to the front of the car that will use a flex line to connect to the front of the itnake.

For parts, you need the fuel tank + an untouched fuel tank harness, and you need a complete fuel line end set that comes off the tank.

Unfortunately ive got no pictures here, this is the best description i can give. Ghetto cruiser probaby could do a better job since he actually got his working for a bit!

 

Thanks Sheldon.

 

LS1 swap in a 1991 car thatw ill be smog LEGAL in California? Not gonna happen, unless its registered as a hotrod and gets its exemption.

CALI is very strict.

peace
Hog

 

Actually, there are a few LS1 swaps on the board that are smog legal, might want to do a little before saying anything.

 

Exactly. You have to go through the "motor change" process, which requires all of the emissions equipment the factory used on the engine you're putting in be present and function, then pass the sniffer for the engine.

 

Exactly what I said, gets its exemption. You simply cant swap in an LS2 setup and go through the normal channels.
This much easier to do since EGR AIR bandaid devices have been dropped.

Enjoy your LS2's 3rd Gen.

peace
Hog

 

And since we're on the subject (& apparently splitting hairs), the way that I understand it is that you can do an LS1/2/6 swap, but you're S.O.L. if you want to do an LQ4/9 or L92 swap - since the new engine has to be from the same type/class of vehicle as what it's going into... (IOW, no 'truck' engines into a 'car' platform.)

And my old boss wondered why I didn't want to transfer to the Kalifornia office...

 

It's not an "exemption". It's an inspection to verify the proper equipment is installed. A bar code is attached to the car, and after that you can go through "normal channels".

The engine and equipment have to be out of a passenger car of the same or later model year as the chassis.

 

guys, what equipment is on 06 GTO for emissions?


I need them since they are easier to find. Thanks

 

Sheldon already answered that, evap only since the '06 GTO's had the LS2s in them.

 

Dont forget cats... Probably have to be in the same general location and of course the same number. Right?

Also...the evap. Everyone knows what Im about to say probably... This is how it is on the LS1 atleast. In order for the EVAP so purge and function, it needs to know the tank status. Pressure, fuel level etc. This is why the Fuel level gauge in an LS1 car is serial data. Because the PCM gets the tank level first. So...in an older car, where the fuel level goes right to the gauge, you have to pick. Either have the gauge work and the EVAP not...or visa versa. Not sure what the GTOs have going on or any LS2...but Im guessing its the same.

I dont know of any way to have both...and as far as I know, no one else does either. Might be a way of making the purge function somewhat...but it wont function like factory...

J.

 

I wonder if instead of modding out the sender with the mod to make the fuel gauge work, if a person could put a resistor inline going from the PCM to the gauge cluster that will make the fuel gauge work and also keep the signal correct to the PCM???

Didn't mean to hijack, just a thought.

 

I'm not electronics guru, but wouldn't it take more than that to convert the signal from serial to analog?

 

I would guess a D/A converter would work, although then you'd need to get it set up right. Honestly though, with a PIC chip programmer and not too much time, ant digital signal can become an analog one. As far as parts go:
PIC chip (cheap)
voltage regulator (PICs run 5VDC)
some wires

Plus:
some time
somebody telling me what the serial signal looks like. It actually sounds like a fun project, and really shouldn't be too bad. It would be really simple to output it as % of tank on a tiny LCD screen as well if that was anyone's fancy.

PM me and I'll look into it.

 

Im not an electric guru by any stretch...but I have given this some thought/research. I dont see any reasonable way to have both. You'd need to use the serial output from the PCM, and I think you'd have a lot of work ahead of you. Way beyond me.

Ide sooner cut another hole in the tank and try to install a universal fuel level sender from autometer. Which, depending on the insides of the tank, wouldnt be too difficult.

J.

 

What would i need to make it work, smog pump, ls1 tank, what else?

 

You would need everything from the donor car..... Fuel tank, lines from tank to engine bay, correct filter set up, purge valve up near the motor, wiring for the purge valve. You'd need to wire up all the wires from the fuel tanks for fuel tank pressure, fuel level, etc.

Then you'd be without a fuel level gauge....UNLESS...you retrofitted the swap cars gauge cluster into your car. Which Ive seen done before on a thirdgen and a 4th gen LS1 car cluster. Its doable.

If you take all the parts and wiring from the donor car, and put it into the swap car, everything will work the way it did originally...assuming you kept all wires and all components where they should be.

J.

 

and dont forget about 4 cats and 4 O2 sensors..
i decided to go without evap for right now, hopefully pcm wont set a code the way i wired it...
for cats im going with 2 for H.O 1988 350 camaro, because there is no way to put four GTO cats on the car unless you want to cut the frame and then die from the heat inside - i tried.exhaust system can be thought of as either emissions or chassis component. if you go with emissions, than you are looking into 4 cats, if with chassis - than 2, but they supposed to be approved for the year of the car (Cali legal). But you still need 4 O2 sensors..
good luck!

 

anyway possible to integrate the third gen emissions on the ls1?

 

No, the thirdgen emissions go with the TPI/TBI engine, and will not work on the LS2 engine.

An LS1 swap seems to be easier, but for the cost and hassle of swapping in an LS1/LS2 engine, we here in SoCal have built several TPI engines that wipe the floor with stock LS1/LS2 engines, for less cost. Not worth it in my book.

 

To be honest, I doubt that

 

I understand, but this little ls2 isnt stock. It is forged cammed, and ready for the new TVS 1900 Supercharger.

Im loooking at somewhere around 650+ rwhp after im done.

I guess im gonna look into registering it as a hot rod or something.

 

OK, so you built a TPI engine to make over 305 hp - I'm sorry, but that's not exactly earth-shattering. When all is said & done, the Gen-I engines are going to be using a higher percentage of potential total horsepower, will be less driveable, more difficult to work on, & use more fuel than a Gen-III/IV engine of comparable power. (And no offense, but your personal dislike toward this swap is well-documented.)

I'm honestly not trying to slam anyone for using the original engines that came in our cars, I like them a lot - heck, that was MY original plan! But when I did some objective research, I just couldn't justify putting the money into that platform. It's not that it's at all a bad engine, it's just that it's now occupying the position right where flatheads were in '59 or so... (Sorry.)

 

With the money put in a TPI engine to make the HP to compete with a stock LS1 you can build an LS1 that will outdo a stock LS2....actually, it would probably be alot less money to build the LS1, but it goes on and on like that.

 

My Berlinetta #1 outruns stock LS1 automatics in 4th gen f-bodies. Most likely doesn't get better gas mileage, though.

I haven't had to go through emissions since 2005, but the 305, basically equipped the same as this 350, passed easily enough. But then, they ran it as an '82 instead of the '86 that the system was - the 2003 test would have passed the '86 requirements (the guy who was running the test in 2005 was an idiot - constantly speeding up and slowing down, rather than maintaining steady acceleration or speed).

Like most swaps, what is available to you is probably the worst reason for installing any particular engine. That's true whether you're talking Gen I, II, III, BBC, SBF, Pontiac, Buick, Olds, etc., etc., etc., engine.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat: I got started on this LS1/T56 swap because of a "what's your dream car" question from my wife. I started looking at GTO's, decided against that because I couldn't justify the price in my own mind. Then moved to what modifications to do to Berlinetta #1; considered just doing T56 (manual transmission was the only option I would considered in a "dream car"). Considered LT1/T56, but it would require upgrades to keep up with the current powerplant. That lead me to LS1/T56 and basically a poor-man's GTO, and I picked up the engine/trans. Then I had 2nd thoughts about taking apart Berlinetta #1 and found Berlinetta #2. Even though I intend to be responsible with the end product, I don't have to take it through the strict emissions certification.

Personally, I don't know how the GTO LS2 evap system works. If it's the same thing as f-body LS1 functionally, you might be able to get it to work. It would be a lot simpler to convince the Motor Change inspector you've got all of the LS1 f-body equipment installed and functional. But, again, it would be even easier to convince them your TPI upgrades are C.A.R.B. certified.

To keep the playing field level, the upgraded TPI and the LS1 would both have to be in a 3rd gen and CA emissions certified.

 

I did pass smog on the car before, i changed the engine, the car is a out of state vehicle, maybe i can just take the paper work, and tell them it passed, and register it. well see

 

Good luck with that. I had a current CA certificate for Berlinetta #2, Colorado wouldn't accept it.

 

Your looking at LS1 cali legal car. Wasnt that hard at all. just need all the emission stuff, hook it the right way. Cats need to be in the LS2 year factory location(you need a good exhaust guy). AIR pump. Go take it to the SMOG REF. he will hook up his scanner to the car to read all the inputs, look under car, smog it. If it passes then you get a new sticker saying that its a thirgen car with a LS2 motor. Thats it. easier said than done. Good luck

 

Two people on this thread stated something about registering it as a "HotRod". What exactly does that mean? I searched the C.A.R.B. web site and DMV and got no hit for "HotRod."

 

Some states have collector car, limited use, kit car, fabricated car, hobbyist, etc., types of title/registrations. I've never heard California does.

 

I havent heard anything like that in cali but, i know the car insurance companies have something like that.

 

Making more horsepower and torque to the wheels than an LS1 4th gen isnt as difficult as putting that power to the ground to beat their low 13 second ET's.

I hope we all know that the LS1 in the 4th gens was underrated. The 345 HP rating of the LS1 Corvettes is more in line. And yes we have built TPI engines, and swapped them in, for appx less than the cost of a stock LS1 engine swapped in. My own engine for example. Are you forgetting the cost of the k-member modification for the a/c? And the non-stock motor mounts, and special headers, computer, wiring harness, etc?

I'm not knocking LS1 engines. I know they're awesome and you can build one to run 11 second ET's with a cam and head swap. I'm only arguing the cost per dollar segment. It costs more to build and run an LS1 engine than it does to build and run a TPI engine. But if you can afford it, go for it.

 

The only thing though, you don't have to do the k-member, crossmember modification is very minimal, don't have to use the hawk's headers, don't have to have special wiring or computer. The motor mounts are all you need.

 

X2...beat me to it.

Even a newb welder can notch the k-member. Thick metal is easy to weld. And heck..you can make your own motor mount shoes as well. Plenty of folks have done that. If I had the patience to test fit my motor, I would have. I wanted quick and easy...which just happens to usually mean more $$.

Not to add fuel to the fire...but Ive yet to see any TPI motor hold up (in all categories) against an LS1...stock or not. Ive read from people that it can be done...just sayin Ive never seen it personally. Im talking total performance... Power, driveability, MPG, reaction to mods, emissions...etc etc.

Just sayin...

J.

 

You have to do the k-member if you want A/C, most do. And you need the LS1 computer and wiring, that's what I meant by special.

My TPI engine holds up against a stock LS1 in all categories except fuel mileage. And I dont build engines to get better MPG, I build them to get better MPH. My father's engine (Dyno Don), Vincent's engine (VincentZ28) and Allen's engine (1989GTATransAM) all beat LS1's too, but I dont know their MPG numbers. Now you know a few.

 

But see...with that little extra you pay to put an LS1 in the car, you can have both MPH and MPG.....there are guys running local in Knoxville with 550hp to the wheels, mid 6's in the 1/8th mile and can get 26-28mpg on the highway.

And the wiring and PCM isn't special, you generally get it with the motor from alot of places and all the accessories also.

 

Bleah... I'm thinking that this particular line of discussion is going nowhere. Both sides have strongly-held viewpoints & points in favor of those viewpoints. I would like to be wrong about this, but I can see this topic creating a lot more heat than light...

 

although this discussion is a couple of years old, keep in mind that numbers must be calculated and adjusted with the restrictions, regardless of how minimal they are of the emissions equipment vs those that have gutted their emissions hardware, leading to better flow or at least less restrictive...