Got home from a weekend trip with my wife today, headed for the garage. I think I can call this progress. Remounted the brake lines:



Hoisted 'er back over the fender, and this is the result.



Plenty of clearance now for the AC ...





...and oil pan.

 

One casualty, though, as you can see.



The mounts pretty much fought me every step of the way. I had to remove the alternator to get to the driver's side mount and get the holes to line up in front. The dipstick had to come out in order to get the passenger side mount bolt in. I also had to slot the transmission mount holes to get the Skulte to mount up, a little disappointed about that. Perhaps the Spohn mounts do put the engine too far forward.

The shifter hole is a little rough. I might clean that up later.



I'm a little confused about the snubber on top of the transmission - it's butting up against the tunnel. Don't recall anyone saying anything like that. I guess I never asked, but I assumed you're supposed to use a stock-type 4th gen tranny mount.

But, the engine and transmission are now wholly supported by the car. The headers are off to Jet-Hot, should get them back the first week of March.

Still a whole bunch of work left. . .

 

Lookin pretty good. Feels nice to have it all bolted in and sitting on the car doesnt it?

Couple things. Your brake line that runs over the k-member. Did you check to make sure the motor wasnt resting on it? There isnt a ton of room between the pan and k-member up there either. You can easily run it along the back of the k-member now that you have a ton of space.

Glad that worked for ya...now I have something to look at when I cut mine

As for the snubber on the trans. I can get my hand between mine and the tunnel. Once I trim my k-member, and remove the 1/8" shim under my trans mount, Ill have even more room. I dont believe the snubber should be up against the tunnel. Its more for if the trans mount brakes, and the trans starts to hop alittle. You dont get metal on metal banging, or any extreme driveshaft angle/stress.

When I built my crossmember, I held the trans at the same spot the spohn crossmember had it. I ended up having to use a small shim, due to small varience when I finished welding it all together.

Oh...on the mount. Im using the energy suspension universal mount...the one that works on the 700R4 and most of trans for our cars. That mount comes with a pre-load plate. I do have that one installed...however, I might remove that and my shim once I notch the k-member. I installed that pre-load plate to give me more height and try to clear the k-member. Ive heard they cause more noise and vibes, and arent really needed. Just fyi...

Def clean that shifter hole up. Give yourself some more room on the left and front sides. Maybe use a cut off wheel so you get some nice straight cuts. Your trans shouldnt move a whole lot...but the inner boot covers a pretty big space, so you might as well cut in some insurance so it doesnt hit.

Good stuff and good luck getting her together!

J.

 

Congrats! ( Its about bloody time LOL ) Just messing with ya man I know all too well how long and drawn out this swap can be. Echoed as above the rubber snubber shouldn't be actually touching the floor pan. I set mine in about 1/4" clearance as I wanted everything tucked as tightly as possible. Also running the energy poly mount with no banging issues. Regarding the hole for the shifter you'll want to clean up the little snips in the metal there or over time vibration will likely tear little cracks outward from those spots.

As for the trans mount hole in the c-mem not lining up oddly enough I had the same issue. My previous c-mem worked fine with my last t56 but with the LS1 it was about 1/2 further back. I didnt pay much attention to it because I ended up swapping to the drews piece but it too was a little too far forward. I modded the heck out the drews piece and all was well but to make a long sentence longer I think I recall reading somewheres that LS1 t56's are a little deeper to mount.

Anyways coffee time congrats again.

 

My sentiments exactly.

I had forgotten that the Skulte is designed for LT1/T56. Selective memory, I guess.

The 4th gen tranny mount doesn't look excessively thick. But, I suppose a universal isn't that expensive that I couldn't go ahead and give it a try. The other choices are remove the snubber (not a bad choice), or bang on the tunnel, or shim the crossmember to lower it a tad.

There is clearance between the brake line and engine mount. It's more out of the way where it is.

 

Im pretty sure the trans mounts are the same between the 4th gen and 3rd gens... I think...could be wrong there.

I wouldnt be too concerned about a hole or two not lining up on an aftermarket crossmember. Each car is going to be different, some have been hit, some have damage from the car being jacked up in the wrong place and twisting things...who knows. Thats why spohn slots his crossmembers at an angle. So you have plenty of movement.

My custom crossmember had holes drilled to match my 87. So when it came time to put it in my 86, a couple had to be slotted due to small differences. No biggie.

Im not sure what you should do about the rubber snubber... I dont know that there would be an adverse effects to removing it. Especially if you are running all poly mounts as they wont let the drivetrain move much at all.

J.

 

I'm fairly sure that you're correct - I had to replace mine not so long ago, & IIRC, the applications were the same...

 

Might be true manual to manual, but it certainly doesn't look like my TH700R-4 mount. Summit doesn't list them to cover both, either.

 

that looks like a stock k-member. if so, how much did you remove for oil pan clearance? also, did you brace underneath or just leave it?

 

are you waiting to do the wiring or have you already spliced into the stock thirdgen harness

 

Detailed in this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...ppointing.html

I decided to tackle that after the engine was in. Figured I could better establish routing after the engine/trans were installed.

I'm going to work on the rear end next since I can set the pinion angle relative to the transmission now, then I'll start on the wiring.

 

You can use a third gen or 4th gen mount on the tranny regardless of auto or manual. 4th gen mount is better designed and will last longer than a 3rd gen mount on an LS1/T56. I had two 3rd gen mounts I used last year. One lasted a few weekends and then let go while the other one was new GM OEM from some third gen and it was so soft that it allowed too much flex in the driveline on a launch or hard accel for what its worth. Energy Suspension was cheap and universal and has held up good so far on my LS1/T56.

As for the rubber bump stop on the top of the tranny, mine is roughly 1 inch away, but I would be more concerned with getting the geometry right first. Have you had a chance to see what angle your engine/tranny is in relation to the car??? If your bump stop is bottoming out on the top of the tunnel your alignment may be out of whack and the tailshaft may be pointing too high which might give you some grief....

 

actually i noticed my poly universal mount moved me almost 3/8 to 1/2 in closer to the engine or forward which made my mating to the skulte piece a breeze but still slotted the mounting holes to tweak it

 

The engine/tranny is about 5 degrees tail down to the rocker panels.

I picked up a standard 3rd gen mount. It's the same thickness as the 4th gen mount, but the stud is smaller. Might as well stick to the 4th gen piece. I'm not too concerned about breaking it as there won't be any torque arm putting force on the mount. I'm going to go ahead and shim it at the frame members a little, though, to drop it away from the tunnel.

To put your mind at ease, I trimmed around the opening with a cut-off wheel and die grinder. Put little stress relief radii at the corners as well. Now the hole almost looks like it was meant to be there.

 

Glad you mentioned that, since it addresses one question that I have - I've got the magnetic angle-finder to check driveshaft/pinion angle, but what the heck do you use as the 'reference point' or 'zero'??

I can't think of anything on the vehicle that can be counted on to be original/not subtly deformed, and trying to ensure that something like the floorpan is level would mean that I'd need a bottle or scissor jack at each corner of the car - and wouldn't the suspension need to be loaded as well, so that you're doing the measuring with the car at some semblance of the normal ride height? (And there's certainly no guarantee that the car - when in pristine condition - had the floorpan level to begin with...)

I KNOW that there's a reasonably straightforward, logical way to approach it, but every approach that I have thought of so far has significant flaws... Someone please tell me that I'm over-thinking this...

(Maybe just the fact that the design itself allows for enough tolerance that "x" degrees of variance is acceptable??)

Five7, if I'm hijacking your thread, just let me know, & I'll apologize & move it to it's own topic.

 

I stuck it on the rocker panel and frame rail up by the front of the engine compartment. Both read the same.

The K-member up by the mounts to the frame would probably be another place.

 

You're over thinking this...

When figuring out your drivline angles, you dont need to find zero. You take your measurements off the drive shaft, and off the pinion. You can get the pinion angle a couple ways. I use the bottom of my spohn torque arm. But you can also use the pinion flange. Go off of the area where one of the u-joint caps is.

You use those two angles to derive your overall driveline angle. The angle of your trans doesnt really matter a whole lot. You should figure out where you want that to sit first of course, because moving it will affect your pinion angle. But once you get it situated, forget about it.

Here's a decent little write up.

http://www.wolferacecraft.com/pinionangle.aspx

Since you are using the two measurements to find the difference, finding something perfectly level isnt necessary. The suspension should be loaded...

J.

 

J., you're describing (correctly) setting the pinion angle. The question was the engine/transmission angle with respect to the chassis.

 

Yup. The torque are bracket mount on the diff is parallel with the pinion gear. You dont need the car level or any other reference point on the car remember your trying to set the angle of the driveshaft relative to the pinion, not the car. Set the angle finder on the bottom of the tqa mount on the diff and then on the driveshaft. Adjust until the angle of the driveshaft is about 4 degress less. Keep in mind the more aggressive you make it ( more negative ) the harder it is on u-joints and more chance for louder drivetrain noise. Fwiw mines set at -3.5 and it hooks HARD with no wheel hop at all

 

Eh...im not sure thats AS important. There isnt enough room in an f-body for it to be so far off that it would cause issues. Just make sure everything fits good, and is centered, and Ide call that good. A couple degrees one way or the other is like parking on flat ground or parking on a hill.

The motor height is determined by the motor mounts. The trans can be mounted higher or lower... But... Lets say optimum distance from the top of the trans snubber to the tunnel is 1". And when you set your car up, its only got 1/2" of clearance. I dont think that change in angle will effect anything that bad. If it were 3" off...that'd be trouble.

I never checked the angle of my driveline. But then again, mine was established with spohn mounts, and the spohn crossmember. Then i built my crossmember using that trans height, and making sure i had clearance above the trans.

If you have the means to check your driveline angle, and are trying to get it to a certain angle...then Ide so go for it. No better time than when the car's apart.

j.

 

My concern centers around the transmission snubber being hard up against the transmission tunnel. I'm going to pick up a "universal" poly bushing tonight, see how that fits (without the shim plate, I'm sure), and adjust from there. 1/8"-1/4" plate shims will be used if it still hits.

I also have to provide for the rear crossmember mount bolts since the '82 had them more forward than later years. Plan there is to tack a couple of nuts to a 1/8" steel plate and slid that inside the frame rail, run the bolts up through that. On Berlinetta #1, I just put a nut & washer up there for the rear bolts, and they deform the frame rail. This should support it much better.

 

Gotcha. Yeah I would try to get that trans down alittle. Give yourself a fingers width of room at least. Then go from there. But I wouldnt worry about a specific angle. Just give yourself room. Also...make sure your trans is centered side to side as best as possible.

I didnt know that about the earlier thirdgens haveing different crossmember bolt positions. Making "nutserts" is a good way to go. We do that in the jeep community all the time...since cherokees are unibody, and suffer from the welded nuts busting and stripping all the time.

J.

 

It's an '82-only thing. The only transmissions offered were the TH200C, which is the same length as a 6" tailshaft TH350, and 4-speed manual. The crossmember rear mount bolts are in exactly the same position as the front mount bolts in TH700 & T5 cars, with no holes in the rear position in the '82 rails. They started offering the TH700 in '83, so those cars had three bolt holes on each side. My '86 donor car had the three mount bolt nuts, not sure how long they continued that.

 

That method is actually incomplete. The angle between the driveshaft and pinion is important, but you also need the pinion parallel to the transmission output shaft. U-joints can only handle one angle, and one joint needs to be parallel with the other.

Mark Williams website explains it well http://www.markwilliams.com/driveshafttech.aspx

 

I added 3/8" between the Skulte and frame, the snubber still made contact with the tunnel. So, I took the snubber off. I can get fingers between the tranny and tunnel everywhere except just before the tunnel opens up for the bellhousing, and I can get a fingertip in there. That's just going to have to be good enough.

I fabricated nutplates from 1/8" x 1-1/2" strap for the rear mount bolts. Had fun fishing them in there on a magnet from the opening in front of the mounts, but got it done. Would be nice to have them in there permanently, but that would be too much hassle. Need to fab some for Berlinetta #1 - but that will come later.

Finish up routing the brake and fuel line around the tranny mount, and I'm ready to move on to the rear end.

 

Five&kid,

What opening did u fish the fabricated nutplates through ? or did you have to cut open/notch the frame rail just in front of the mount holes ?

any pictures would be great to get an idea.

 

There's a big oval-shaped hole from the factory about where the frame member bends inward and upward in front of the crossmember mount.

On Berlinetta #1, I opened up a smaller hole behind the crossmember mount and slide the nut in from there. A lot closer (had to get a wrench on the nut), but now there's a bigger hole in the frame member.

The nice thing about the nutplates is you don't need to hold them with a wrench. The plate turns until it hits the sides of the frame member, then stays put.