fcukit33

so im researching an LS3 swap...iv done alot still have alot more to do..iv probly put in about 10 hours on this site and another 15 or so on LS1 tech(so iv read the stickes)....ill be doing alot of learning on this swap witch is why im going with a crate(probly an ls376/480 from GMPP unless i find something that catches my eye beter somwhere eles)

my biggest concern right now isent so much the money im starting a new job in the morning and ill be getting a better paying union job in a few months

my problem is welding i want to do everything besides the tune myself with a few buddys of mine...non of us have a welder nor know how to use one my question is can this be done with out it

iv been looking at spohn stuff and going with there k member with mounts and tranny cross member and tork arm and then at the stainless works headers

besides SFC's to strengthen the frame can this swap b done with out welding?

andrew69_04

iTrader: (1)

yeah. i had to weld in my A/C notch in my stock K-member (using your sphoon piece, you dont have to worry about that step.

The SFC's will have to be welded on but im sure you could get a shop to do that for ya.

Only other thing that will require welding that i can think of would be your exhaust unless you buy a full system or get one custom fab'd somewhere.

cam-

One of the first third gen swappers here did his entire swap without a welder nor aftermarket support thats now available so yes its very doable. You could buy pretty much everything now to make this a fairly bolt in swap but the quality on some things suffers especially with regards to the exhaust. The Hawks y-pipe is less than good ( See Ghettocruizers threads on it ) but it will work. Are you planning on going 6 gear or auto?

GraphMan

I am looking to swap my old LB9 when it expires on my '91 Z28.
I see some decent and affordable LSx engines on eBAY pulled from GTOs and Corvettes. I am heartened there are aftermarket parts to make this a doable project.
My Z28 has an auto trans and T-tops. Word is that I would have to reinforce the chassis to handle the torsion from a bigger engine since the T-Top weakens the unibody strength. Any truth to this hypothesis?
Thanks

Klortho

Even if the car was a hardtop, subframe connectors are pretty much a must for any decent amount of power being put down.

GraphMan

Ok, thanks.
Already I garner that a 4th gen F-body LSx is the way to go (compared to a GTO or corvette LSx swap) from reading the posts here too.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Can you do it without welding?? Yes. Are you somewhat limited to what you can do without welding? Yes. Will you most likely run into a situation where you will want to weld? Yes... haha

As was mentioned, exhaust is still an issue when doing this swap. Yes you can make the hawks y-pipe fit... Some have had luck...some (me) had to cut and weld that back together just to get it to fit poorly.

If you need a custom y-pipe bent to take the trip around the Spohn crossmember, a decent exhaust shop can make you something that will work. It might not be pretty, and you might never be able to go over speed bumps again, but it'll work.

In my opinion...a new y-pipe solution is still needed, and it should be designed to work with a re-designed spohn crossmember. And I LOVE spohn parts...so Im not bashing his stuff. I just think something could be done in this area to make the LSx swaps MUCH easier on people.

Oh...and you are going to WANT SFCs...especially if you are building a non-stock LS motor. Your car wont like the new found power and torque for very long.

J.

GraphMan

Nice pics G.C.
So far after reading a lot of the posts I gather using a F-body LS1 is the easiest, followed by the whole series of generic LS1 engines; whereas the newer gen (gen IV), e.g., LS3, is more difficult, but mainly due to electronics, not mechanical fit.
There still is a lot to read yet!

fcukit33

im gonna go with an auto debating between a beefed up 700r4 and a 4l65e

i know ill b limited with out welding but realisticly i wont b learingin how and ill probly ruin something if i try(not that id b abel to get my hands on one right lol)

as far exhaust the plan in my head is something like this a true duel exit behind the front wheels theres a couple of decent shops on Long island ill end up going to one when im done to talk it out

the cars gonna b daily driven so i have to be abel to go over speed bumps and its gotta be quet enough to avoid noise polutin tickets

the LS3 will go in stock(exp maybe tuck coils and intake for a lil more bang) looking to b done by next july (still need mad $$$ for parts loland a new job on the way)and posibely the summer after forge the internals and get a twin screw but ill worry about that when i have an LS3 powered thirdgen

Klortho

I wouldn't waste the time on the true duals if you want ground clearance, go with a 3" i-pipe to a good muffler and you'll be just fine, as far as the transmission do yourself a favor and go ahead and get a 4L60E and use it, will make tuning lots easier and give you the power to change shift points in the transmission for each gear.

fcukit33

the ezhaust ill figure out when the time comes the transmison i thought the 4l60e coudlent handel the power an LS3 made? and u needed the 65e

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

The 4L60E came stock in the LS-powered F-bodies...

Klortho

Well, the 4L65E is what they put in the Trailblazer SS and they would destroy them with the LS2.

Just get a 4L60E and have it built up, you'll be fine.

GraphMan

Besides engine, SFCs, and exhaust, an LSx upgrade will need a new rear end,
esp. in my old '91.
What are the rear end suggestions?
Thanks.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Why do you say that?

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

my stock 02 broke 2 ten bolts on street tires. 6 speeds are hell on 10 bolts. I went with the Strange S-60. Some people have had problems but mine works perfect. But from what i hear as long as you don't throw slicks on a 10 bolt it will last though an automatic.

GraphMan

As it is not the 5.7L engine, and I spin a wheel when accelerating too much on sharp turns I guessed it is not a posi. I rightly or wrongly assumed the posi was on the higher priced 5.7L.
Also, the current LB9 is about 200HP, whereas the LS6 does 400HP, I assumed the increased torque would shred my differential gears.
Next time it is on a lift I will rotate the rear wheel and see if the other wheel rotates with it, or counter rotates, which I read on another thread will detect if it is posi (yeah I should have come across that tip years ago).
So your saying a stock 3rd gen differential is strong enough even when doubling the engine horsepower?
EDIT:
OK, I found this on the 10 bolt FAQ --
Is a Fourthgen Rear End Stronger?
No stronger than a thirdgen rear with 28-spline axles.
also from the FAQ: http://www.ws6transam.org/10bolt.html
answers my questions conerning 400HP+

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

Basically, none of the "modern" F-bodies (I'd define that as '82-'02) that I'm aware of came with a reasonably-strong differential - although there were a pretty limited number of cars that came with the Dana 44, which (from everything I've heard) wasn't at all bad.

According to my understanding, the Australian 9-bolts are a little bit stronger than the much-more-common 10-bolt, although finding any parts for them is a serious PITA. I've beefed my 9-bolt up a bit with a differential girdle, etc., but I'm still pretty sure that once I get my swap completed, even if I try to mostly baby it, it's gonna be living on borrowed time...

GraphMan

OK thanks for the info.
BTW..I am watching a beauty on ebay today:
Chevrolet LS6 Crate Motor Gen III V-8 2004 Corvette Z06
Item number: 320376911732
He is asking $6000.
So far no bids.
Sure is pretty!

FirehawkSS

iTrader: (2)

Make sure that the oil pan will work with your swap. I'm not sure if the ls6 has a dry sump oiling system. Some of the vettes do and I'm not sure if the dry sump pan will fit in the 3rd gens nicely. You may end up swapping to the f-body oil pan.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

that is WAY too much for an LS6! you can get an LS3 for that price!

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Thats about what I paid for my running driving donor car. That was a 99 Z28 convertable. Head/cam/bolt on motor, built T56, Strange 12-bolt...not to mention all the goodies I used from the rest of the car. Then add in the money I made from selling the parts that were still good.

I wouldnt pay $6k for an LS6. You can get a bare bones LS1 and put some money into it and have a WAY better motor than that.

J.

Shift06

Not trying to sound rude or anything, but if a little bit of welding is potentially keeping you from either doing this swap or not, maybe you shouldn't even be trying to do this swap. I would say the welding parts should be the least of your worries.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

If I didnt already have a welder/know hwo to weld...I wouldnt have wanted to weld anything either. The swap can be expensive...especially if you arent welding anything yourself...so adding the cost of a welder, plus learning how might not be the best route.

Just sayin... Lots of guys are plenty mechanically inclined enough to pull the swap off. Doesnt mean they are welders.

J.

fcukit33

im not the most macanicly inclined person in the world but my 2 friends are preety dam good at this stuff..i havent had much of a place to learn...ill b learning alot on this swap weve all looked into this a lil bit iv spent a ton of time looking at it were jsut worried bout welding because non of us have a clue about it... good wiht cars good with driving but i dont trust them with the flam from a lighter let alone a blow torch

FirehawkSS

iTrader: (2)

Buy pre-fabbed motor mounts, transmission mounts, lt headers, 4th gen gas tank, wiring and pcm, and all other misc hoses,fittings,and plumbing. Then take the car to a muffler shop and have them weld you up an exhaust system. You should be fine without any welding. Get an ac relocation kit so you don't have to cut the sub-frame. Don't sweat it and go tear that car apart!