I plan on running the LS3/4L60E combo into a 91-92 Camaro Z28. I'm just wondering how the stock rear end will hold up. The car will be mainly for street purposes but i intend to rag on it quite a bit. Should I consider upgrading the rear end to something stronger, if so what do you reccomend?

 

if you break it buy a moser 9"

 

Do you think I'll have any problems with the stock rear end though?

 

Been building 8.8's for 5 seasons now and no one and i mean NO ONE has broken one of mine yet. Building one for an 8.50 build up as I type

 

I plan on using the stock 10 bolt for now until I can get something better. But I don't plan on racing much other than a few test and tune's. Mine's gonna be mostly a street car.

 

What are you asking for them? You have a business or just something you do in your free time?

Mine will be a street car aswell but I plan to rag on it quite a bit, but who doesn't

 

The stock rear will grenade if you hook good one time...lol

 

Will a 4thgen rear end be a simple swap- as in pull the old rear end out and bolt the 4thgen up. Thoughts on that idea?

 

4th gen rear is just as fragile as the 3rd gen rear. my stock 02 Z28 went through 2 stock ten bolts then i upgraded to a Strange S60. Now it takes everything I throw at it with no complaints.

 

4th gen rears cause new problems without solving the old problems.

To wit, 4th gens are the same 7-5/8" differential that the 3rd gens had, but are an inch longer on each side. Just plain not worth the hassle.

But, there is a tech article about improving the 10-bolt. Aftermarket carrier, gears, axles, an aluminum support cover, and welded tubes will make it last as long as possible.

 

I had my 10-bolt built with that recipe back in 2002...Torsen HD diff, Moser axles, welded tubes, Timken bearings all around. It's still running strong after over a dozen hard road course events. Redline Heavy Shockproof gear lube, change it every other season.

 

Yep - sooner or later!

I've got a slightly-beefed-up Australian 9-bolt, & I'm just praying that it lasts long enough for me to save up the coin for a Ford 9"...

That brings up two questions -

1) - How much did that cost you (if you don't mind my asking)?

2) - That's a little bit encouraging. I know that it's only a small part of the equation, but I'm also using the Redline fluid (Light Shockproof in mine) with a bit of GM additive. Good to know that it works well in your car.

 

For me, it was half what a Spohn 12-bolt w/o brakes would run.

 

1.) Between $900-1000 including the gears and Torsen from SLP back when they sold them.

2.) No additive needed w/ a Torsen, they're gear driven w/ no clutch packs.

Just to be clear, if I could have gotten a Ford 8.8 or S60 for a little more $ I'd have done it. The options back then were only 10 bolt, 12 bolt, or 9" Ford.

 

Can't beat the 8.8s as far as being bulletproof, and cheaper than a 12 bolt or 9". I'm going to swap mine out for one down the road as well (maybe even the one out of my Mustang when I do the rear end swap in it)

 

Im running a Strange 12-bolt and I love it.

However...that rear came with my donor car. If I had to get an axle to put in.... 8.8. No question asked. I can buy 8.8s for $50 all day long at the yard near me. They are super easy to gear, and are darn near bullet proof.

Ive built maybe 6-8 of them for jeep guys. We see a LOT of torque and abuse on the trails. Couple guys are running 35" tires and 4:1 crawler boxes. Thats a ton of torque at the wheels and Ive never seen one give up. Not even so much as a broken shaft. If I had to pick the next axle down the list...Ford 9".

But...this means you'll have to have someone build it, or build it yourself. Which...if you dont know what you are doing, and cant weld, will be quite a challenge.

My suggestion, if you arent going to build it yourself, is to look for someone selling an aftermarket unit. You can find some pretty good deals.

Or...just ride on the stock axle and take it easy until you can afford to buy one from either a member or a vendor. But I wouldnt beat on it with the stock axle, or stock 4th gen axle, unless you have AAA and can afford to have the car down while you fix it.

J.

 

I could be wrong, but you can beef up your read end a little bit by upgrading internals, however, depending in what kid of a driver you are and how beefy your engine is, this could only be a temp fix. I just blew up my 10 bolt and all I have is a bit better then stock 5.0. Like said it was said before one good launch and you will find a puzzle where your rearend once was.

 

Its that old saying... You can polish a turd, but in the end, its still a turd.

You can throw parts at the stock axle. But like you said, it could still be temporary. And who knows what happens when it lets loose. If it does it on the highway going 65mph....it can get ugly. Ive seen stockers work well for quite a while. More often than not, a good hook at the track leaves them noisy and on their last leg.

I would rather save up for awhile, and just take it easy until I can afford a good rear. That way you get what you want, and arent comprimising. It all depends on your budget, skill level, and patience really.

J.

 

Well I guess I'll just have to wait and see what I have left over. I dont want to alter a rear end. I'd rather just buy an aftermarket one or a decent priced built one.

 

Im going to be running a ford 8.8 in a mini 4 link setup

 

Where can I buy a 8.8 rear for f body?

 

You can find some rear end options here http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...dy/Drivetrain/

Other options are fabricate from another vehicle or watch the classifieds for the least expensive options.

 

I got a GM 12 bolt from Spraker Racing. They build them as a bolt in. That means complete, you don't need new brakes or anything. I pulled mine out, bolted theirs in and kept going. I don't know if they ship as I am local. I am running the stock drum brakes. They can also make them for other brake setups but for me it was bad enough buying a new rear without buying new brakes too.

 

So anyone selling 8.8s? Otherwise I'm going 9 inch.

 

I dont know of anyone that has an 8.8 set up for f-bodies. You could ask one of the sponsers if they could custom make something for you...but honestly, if you have the dough for the 9inch...get the 9inch. If I had to choose between an aftermarket 8.8 and an aftermarket 9inch, Ide go 9inch.

J.

 

Sure you do... Kubus has one of mine in his car. Of course so do I but we only cyber know each other

 

Hahaha well now I do! I havent been in the market for one so I really dont know.

I think my last post was confusing. I meant I didnt know of any vendors that offer bolt in 8.8s for F-bodies. (strange, moser, etc) I know a handful of guys running them...but they built them themselves.

Are you building these to order? Or did you just crank out a couple...

J.

 

At first I built one just because thats what i like to do is build stuff. The more challenging the better its my play time but I quickly learned that building one diff from scratch ( at least one thats worth running ) is no easy task. This ended up in over two months of head scratching and planning and lots of hard work later we ended up building a jig. My projects around here sometimes turn into the fun thing for everyone to take part in which is very fortunate because if I had to pay all the talented dudes who helped me get the first one done the cost would have been completely insane. As it is they are still very pricey top build but its on the parts and whatnot where opting for the 8.8 is the real coin saver. Initially I had soooooo much demand it was crazy I could have easily tuned it into a business but I already have one of those that takes most of my time and pays me better than cranking out diffs ever could so I pretty much declined most everyone except for friends and some clever board members who knew how to ask the right way to get me to build one for them. That was five years ago now and I'd say on average I build about ten or so units per year. The first couple years I'd build them all in one month as the jig is big and heavy and rather complex to set up. I'd simplify things if i were to start over in terms of the jig but this one works excellent its just a little overkill is all. After a couple years I managed to store the jig in an area of the shop thats not too hard to access so now I sort of build to order. Typically i can get one turned around in one or two weeks now. I still need to cash in favors especially when it comes time to weld the cast but fortunately I come from a family of Steamfitters so exotic welding is our forte.

Anyways the first year I sold some I sent one down to Baton Rouge to this very cool dude seen in the link below. Hes been having all sorts of fun beating the snot out of his 8.8 for five seasons strong now he must be near a thousand passes on the thing by now. Heres a clip of him running it this year, LS7 heads cam N/A he cuts consistent low 1.4 60's and hits 1.3x on the regular. See vid

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A lot of people seem to think 8.8 = budget build but I havent had one single failure yet out of any of my builds and I haven them in some mighty fast cars. The saying goes you get what you pay for and I'd rather build the best stuff instead of the cheapest stuff.

 

You'll never have to convince me that the 8.8 is a stout piece. Ive witnessed them take a pounding. Externally and internally haha.

Ive actually got a 3.73 posi 8.8 sitting behind my shed that was GOING to use. Can you believe 8.8s are only $50 at my local yard? I use them in jeeps all the time due to already having discs and being beefy as crap. I usually weld the tubes to the centers and re-stack the posi clutch discs to tighten them up...unless Im doing a locker or another carrier. Then they're good to go most times.

Do you get the brackets pre-made? Or do you have the brackets made for you?

J.

 

We make everything in house aside from the cores. I harvest pieces from stock ten bolts and obvioulsy start with a stock Ford 8.8 pumpkin and weld it all up. Billet tqa mount etc

 

I would love to go with an 8.8 in my car but got screwed over by a local shop so I lost out. For my car I am planning on just getting a 9 inch and building it as I get the money. I talked to an LS1tech sponsor about their fabbed 9 and that's the way I will be going.

Something to remember is that behind an auto a 10 bolt will live for quite a while as long as certain problem areas are addressed. Take care of the rear itself, rebuild if it has a lot of miles and then take care of wheel hop and it should last for a good little while. They have been into the 10s before. But you drop the clutch in front of one and it dies pretty quick.

 

i plan on throwing a locker in my stock open dif 342 rear and seeing how far that will get me. little street time, lots of track use.

i had a 2000 z28 that went 1.60 on the stock rear @ 3600lbs countless times. it only had strange 373s and a dif cover. i put the gears in the car @ 45k miles, added the converter and other bolt ons around 46k. the car now has 90k on it and the rear hasn't missed a beat. the kid that bought it autocrossed it repeatedly (yes with a 4k stall and NO FRONT SWAY BAR)...obviously he isn't the brightest bulb in the package.

nonentheless, i am going to try my luck with the 10 bolt(s). it seems that if you get them to stick they will take some power. i know of 2 guys (local at that) that are going/have went 1.3x repeatedly on the stock 10 bolt. i think with less weight, less power, and traction i can make a stock one with a locker live for awhile.

fwiw my buddy went 1.65 on a completely stock 10 bolt, no cover or anything really...in a lowered 6 spd 99 z28, it was a bolt on car he hit with a 150 shot off the line haha.

 

Mine. I dont like troubles down the road or track.

 

Hmmm. OK, I'm interested/curious, do you want to talk about it via PMs, or...? Any rearend that can stand up to repeated sub-1.5 60s is worth finding out about...

Also - part of what I plan on doing with the car is open-road racing/track days on a road course. Are there any mods available to address cooling?? Thanks Cam-!

 

Spike - That'll be my choice if my 12 bolt ever takes a dump. Or if I get extra money that I just HAVE to spend on the car haha. Nice.

V8...You'll be happy with the 8.8. They really are stout pieces. Nice thick tubes, heavy centers, beefy gears and axles. Just an all around great unit.

J.

 

I have a strong 383 for my 87 and built a 1992 10 bolt with 3.42 and a zexel - added a Tom's Diffs rear cover and its for street and my car is auto- I beleive it will be fine as an auto is much easier on it than the stick and no drag radials/launches. It will take decent abuse but respect that its still the weekest link, course I'm older now that my son owns its its still in there(knock wood) without any issues.
And Cam do you sell housings setup for third or fourth gen cars?

 

I've not had one single part on my car look that nice, ever. that's one nice lookin' rear...

 

95% of my 8.8's end up being fourth gen width but your not limited to a specific width as I can do any width required.

Even for third gen applications Unless I already had a smoking set of wheels in third gen off set I'd put a 4th gen width in anyways. Theres a LOT more wheel options for the 4th gen width than there is for third gens.

 

I'm running a stock 9 bolt with freshly changed fluid (Lucas for limited slips). What are others running for gear oil? Is the Lucas a good choice?

I'd rather change it now before I start to put some miles on her. Those 8.8s are also looking like a future upgrade path

 

Yeah the 8.8 has a lot of plusses. I could have built anything when I started but 8.8 cores are readily available and tough as nails. Finding old used 9" housing and third members is tough nowadays. Plus the 9" is 3% less efficient than then 8.8 and close to 75lbs heavier. Considering the 9" has a 3% loss of rwhp compared to the 8.8 and the weight penalty of the heavy 9", on a 400rwhp build that adds up to 12 rwhp loss plus the extra weight which equals about a couple of tenths. I know what a tenth costs as do most if not all of you so more plusses again. Also there is more carrier options for the 8.8 than practically any other diff out there.

My price on the housings isnt dirt cheap but the final build sure can be. Building these things right requires a fair bit of machining and some very pricey, specialized welding which is what puts the cost up. That said a lot of my customers of late have been running used internals which is the way to go IMO. You'll end up with a complete rear for about half the cost of a new one from Moser or Strange and 8.8 internals are a dime a dozen. The stock Ford T-Loc in 31 spline is proven reliable to high 9's

 

Approximately how much do you charge for a built 8.8 cam? I live near Toronto and may keep you in mind in the future.

 

oyi