cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Not yet. Need to get a gauge

9014josh

iTrader: (1)

Running an opti spark? They can be put on wrong if the pin isn't lined up with the cam correctly,had the exact same problem with one before and it turned over the same way. You'll get spark but its not firing in the correct order.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

hmm thats intresting.. But I thought that was only on 93-95 LT1s and i think on the 96-97 there is a pin that sets it in place. Im not sure when i purchased the motor it had a brand new gm opti spark put on a few days before i bought the motor. He said he drove it and she ran fine, and quick. But whos to say if thats true. It does seemed like the timing was a little off so that could quite possibly be it. But im getting spark to my plugs so i know the opti is still good. Ill have to check that out if the fuel pressure is good.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

If the timing was off it would at least try and fire and run like crap. When turn the ignition on, are you hearing the pump prime for 2 seconds before you start it?

Usually I see people mess up the fuel pump wires on the harness, make sure the relay is good and the fuse isn't blown

FlyDoc

it almost sounds like a wiring issue.
where did you get the guide to merge the two harnesses?
there is a hole mess of pink wires off the EMC that need to be crank & run hot, if you only have them run hot your ECM will not send one or both spark or fuel. that could enplane the no start and white smoke (unburnt hot fuel). and all the but joints between the two harnesses need to be soldered and heat shrink! if not you voltage will vary, and come loose in time, and you will hate life, as you will never know when it will not run.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I can hear my pump prime for 2 seconds but it sounds like it has air on it or something? Not sure if that's normal or not. But I only put about a gallon and a half in it but that should be plenty.
And the fuel pump harness was plug and play from walbro. Not splicing necessary.

I had my harness done by Pocket. Despite all the crap going on with him right now, he is very Good at what he does so i hope to think its not the harness, I haven't heard of a problem with his completed harnesses yet. But I do agree it could defiantly be a wiring issue. Guess ill have to look into that and check some of the pins. I will look at pockets guide and see which pins need to be hot. Is it better to test them with a volt meter or will a basic test light do the job?

And I haven't yet checked fuel pressure, still trying to score a fuel pressure gauge.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

no fuel pressure. I didnt test it with a guage but i help the pressure valve open and primed the pump and got nothing out of it. I dont know how it **** out already, I know i had heavy pressure to the lines last week, is there anything else it can be besides that? or another way to test and make sure its the pump

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

well if its priming then you know it has power, you need to turn the iginition on and try to crank it and check for power to the pump.. it might be the relay not allowing the pump to actuate under acc switch on..

also check the fuel pressure regulator at the rails.. you have the vacuum line hooked up to it right? and the vacuum line is working? check for leaks (air leaks) around it.. and the line.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

ok ill check all that out, thanks man!

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

ok i tested fuel pressure just now, and im getting 45 on prime, 41 when i turn the motor over.So at least i know im getting addiquit fuel pressure past the regulator. I tested the injectors for ground continuity, but got nothing. And when I tested for pulsing all I got was solid light.
So does this mean that I have a bad ground to the PCM or bad ground to the opti? I know the opti is giving spark to the cylinders so I know that its working. So now where do I look, this is driving me nuts.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Well she fires up on starting fluid. I changed out the tps sensor, still nothing. And I checked the pins on the opti connector and theres all good. And someone said the opti could might be flipped 180 degrees out of timing, so I decided to give starting fluid a chance. So I had someone turn it over and I held it wide open and gave it a constant stream. It ran very slowly, but probably because starting fluids not enough to supply all cylinders. But at least I narrowed it down to fuel, I have an extra set of injectors im going to give a shot tomorrow.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Now I have no spark, went to do some testing today and ive got nothing to the plugs and still no pulse on the injectors. Im going to get my ICM tested tomorrow just to rule that out, then Im going to inspect/replace my crankshaft positioning sensor. Ive been doing some reading and it seems that the CPS failing can cause no spark or injector pulse. I looked over the wiring for splices and loose wires but didnt find anything. I havent given it a thorough inspection yet but I want to beleive its not my harness. Ill let you guys know what happens, but im open to more suggestions lol. Im getting frustrated.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Now I have no spark, went to do some testing today and ive got nothing to the plugs and still no pulse on the injectors. Im going to get my ICM tested tomorrow just to rule that out, then Im going to inspect/replace my crankshaft positioning sensor. Ive been doing some reading and it seems that the CPS failing can cause no spark or injector pulse. I looked over the wiring for splices and loose wires but didnt find anything. I havent given it a thorough inspection yet but I want to beleive its not my harness. Ill let you guys know what happens, but im open to more suggestions lol. Im getting frustrated.

casey68

nice ride....do you know where i can get motor mounts to fit the engine and frame??

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

I got mine from ebay, theyre prothane mounts. But you can get some Energy Suspension mounts from summit.

And thank you for the compliment man!

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Did you figure out the problem yet Cprmn?

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Just tested my wires to my ICM according to shbox.com's diagram. Im getting over 12V to termials "A" and "D". But when I put terminal "B" to ground and crank the engine I get a slight burst of 0.02 V then back to 0.
Then I tested my Opti harness and it reads:
A- 5V
B-5V
C-12.3V
D- 0.05 ground continuity
So according to shbox.com its either my PCM or Opti(or a loose connection/bad wire. But ive checked all those). So I just emailed my tuner to see if he can tell if a PCM is bad while hes tuning it, seeing as I dont have an extra one to test it with, this week im going to take off my opti to see if its lined up on the cam pin correctly.. and i guess well go from there.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

I hope you get it figured out soon. I'm sure you're having much fun with it yet.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

ok... today I rented a noid light to see if i had fuel injector pulse. Sure enough there was no pulse, so I tested to see if I still had spark so I could narrow it down.. and now I have no spark.... Wtf is going on?.. I took out the optispark and spun the cam sprocket on the opti, and the coil fired and I could hear the injectors firing one by one. So I know it cant be the opti. This is the second time ive had spark and lost it so Im just baffled. Im thinking maybe the PCM but I dont know anyone that has one that would let me borrow it.
Any one have any more suggestions?

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

one thing is I dont have a ground coming out of my harness by my ICM, from the pics ive seen there should be one there, so tomorrow im gunna scoop up a ground strap and mount it to my chassis and see what happens

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Yesterday I checked the following pins at the PCM connections with KOEO(key on engine off)

Connector A-
Grounds at A18 & A2: Both were good.

Connector B-
Battery feed @ B15: Good
Ign Feed @ B30: Good

Connector C-
Ground at C32: Good

Connector D-
Engine ground at D1: Good
Ign feed at D3: Good

So it seems my PCM is sending the signal so I dont think its bad. Someone said to check my oil pressure switch because it can cause a no start condition. And if I apply 12v to pin #87 it by-passes my fuel pump relay and also acts as an oil pressure switch. So ill give that a shot next although i dont beleive thats my issue. So what else can cause no spark, and no pulse if its not the opti, and no the PCM?

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Well a little update, I decided to pull my relays and check them out. There are 3 right by the brake booster, which is the way I think Jon does most of his harnesses. They were labeled but I think the tape came off, but one of them has a burn mark on the relay connection and the female connector from the harness.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/8720869...n/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8720869...n/photostream/

Its the black/red wire, Im not sure if its crossed or what, I unplugged the relay and turned over the car, and the injector pulsed for a second, then the motor backfired. And after that, even with the new relay installed, got no more pulse. And now right after I prime the pump(according to my fuel pressure guage) I loose all fuel pressure after prime instantly.

And not sure if its relevant, but one of the relays clicks right when the pump is done priming. Even if I swap it with the brand new one. I assume its kicking the fuel pump off after priming but figured id double check.

Im going to check over some wiring threads over the next few days and see whats going on. But i guess you can call that progress

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Did some testing on the Black PCM connector on the Opti pins:
(all tested with Key On Engine Off)

Pin 2- Red/Black wire- Dead
Pin 3- Pink/Black wire- Dead
Pin 14- Solid Red wire- Dead
Pin 20- Purple/White wire- Dead

I also picked up a little scan tool to check for codes, and it wont read me the codes. The Check Engine light is supposed to pulse the codes from the dash, and it doesnt blink at all.

Im starting to think maybe the PCM took a crap

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

94+ pcm's wont flash the light with a toy paperclip "scanner"

Only certain scan tools will let you pull codes from the 94/95 "OBD1-but-requires-scantool" pcm.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Ignition "off"
Disconnect test connector (opti connector near #6 injector)
Ignition "on"
Probe terminal "c" (RED) with test light to ground
Light should be "on"

Light off:
Faulty pcm connection
or
open or grounded ignition feed circuit from distributor to pcm
or
faulty pcm

Light ON

Check for continuity between terminal D (PNK/BLK) and Ground

Cont Yes ?
Faulty Distributor Connection
Or
Faulty Dist

Cont No?
Faulty pcm connection
or
Open Ground Circuit from dist to pcm
or
Faulty PCM

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Z28racer!!

Tested terminal 'C' to ground and have power there, and I also have continuity to 'D'.

How does that prove that my distributer is bad though? I plugged in the opti while it was out and spun the cam sprocket on the opti, and i could see the coil arching, and hear the injectors fire. So i assume its good

89rs454

This is so confusing. If the wiring harnesses is right then It would point the finger at the optispark, but if it's getting hits from the starter fluid then I guess it's has spark? This thing should've already started by now with a good fuel pump and gas/ air /spark, it's that easy to fire up.

Something has to be wrong on your part my man.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

yeah i know. I had spark, now I dont. and now my fuel pressure is slowly dropping after priming. Only thing out the ordinary I can find is that burnt pin on the relay. But I plug in the relay and no change. Opti test said the opti works(PO says its a GM opti). So Im chasing down grounds, and ill go from there. All the positive feeds are where they need to be.

Feels like im chasing a ghost.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

For the record, it doesnt hit on starting fluid anymore

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

does anyone else not have there ground straps from the PCM to ICM?

http://shbox.com/1/ICM_cooling.jpg

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

The two checks that you said checked out ok and point to possible faulty opti, but also say the connection, its very possible there is an issue with the small subharness that plugs into the opti and then to the connector by the #6 injector.


Those grounds can be located wherever, they just had the studs for the coil anyway so it was a good spot to not have to add extra fasteners.

Here is the chart for the ignition coil and module test

Check spark at plug with spark tester while cranking

Spark YES->
Check fuel, spark plugs, etc

Spark NO->

Check for spark at ignition coil wire with tester while cranking
Spark YES->
Inspect cap for cracks, secondary wires for opens;shorts;or poor connections.
If OK, replace Distributor

Spark NO
Remove coil wire, inspect coil wire for signs of damage, measure resistance of the coil
wire, resistance should be less than 5kohm
Is the coil wire OK ?
No -> faulty coil wire
Yes->
Disconnect ignition module connector.
Ignition "ON"
With DVM, check voltage from harness
Terminals A (Pnk/Blk)and D(Wht/Blk) to ground

Either terminal under 10 Volts?
-> Faulty circuit from terminal coil
or faulty coil connection
Or faulty coil

Both terminals under 10 Volts ?
Faulty ignition feed circuit to ignition coil
or grounded external coil circuit
or faulty ignition coil

Both terminals 10 Volts or more

Probe ignition coil module connector terminal "C"(Pnk) with test light to B+

Light ON ?

No
Faulty ignition coil module connection
or Faulty ignition coil module

Yes
Faulty ignition coil



CIRCUIT DESCRIPTION
Number(s) below refer to circled number(s) on the diagnostic chart.

1.The battery should be fully charged prior to any tests. Check for proper output from the distributor ignition system. The spark tester requires a minimum of 25,000 volts to fire. This check can be used in case of an ignition miss, because the system may provide enough voltage to run the engine but not enough to fire a spark plug under heavy load.
2.This test will separate the distributor cap, rotor and ignition wires from the ignition coil to help identify a secondary ignition system problem. It is necessary to unscrew the top terminal on the ST 125 spark tester for a proper fit in the distributor end of the coil wire.
3.This will determine if the proper available voltage exists in the primary ignition circuit.
4.A grounded coil circuit will cause the ignition fuse to open, and a no-start condition will occur.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
An ignition coil wire that is open or shorted to ground can cause a no start condition.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Here is the complete chart A3, the first post was a section of it, even though you probably dont have a Tech1, the whole thing may help, the igntion check chart above is referred to in this chart.



Perform OBD system check before proceeding with this chart also check the following:
If PCM DTC's 16,18, 41, 42, 46, or 48 are stored, use those charts first.

Actual Engine temperature and ECT temperature on the Tech1 should be close to the same, if not refer to DTC15

TP Sensor if over 2.5 Volts at closed throttle, use the DTC 21 Chart

Is RPM indicated on Tech1 During Cranking ?

NO

Ignition "off"
Disconnect test connector (opti connector near #6 injector)
Ignition "on"
Probe terminal "c" (RED) with test light to ground
Light should be "on"

Light off:
Faulty pcm connection
or
open or grounded ignition feed circuit from distributor to pcm
or
faulty pcm

Light ON

Check for continuity between terminal D (PNK/BLK) and Ground

Cont Yes ?
Faulty Distributor Connection
Or
Faulty Dist

Cont No?
Faulty pcm connection
or
Open Ground Circuit from dist to pcm
or
Faulty PCM

YES RPM while cranking

Using spark checker, check for spark while cranking (check two wires)

Spark NO
Basic Ignition Problem, refer to chart C4

Spark YES
Check injector fuses for being open

Fuses OK

No
Check injectors, or injector circuits for being shorted to ground

Yes
Using tech 1 enable fuel pump, does fuel pump operate ?

No
Use chart A5

Yes
Ignition OFF
Install fuel pressure gauge and note fuel pressure after ignition "ON"
Should be 41-47psi

Not OK
Use chart A7

OK
Review the diagnostic aids, if all are OK, sfi system is OK
Refer to "hard start" in diagnosis by symptom.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

ordered a used PCM for a 96 camaro today, should be here early next week. but tonight I put my opti back in, and I had a NOID light hooked to the injectors and for a second I had pulse, then the ignition slowed down and spit a cloud of raw fuel out of the throttle body. And after that no pulse. I figured it was the opti harness since the connector clip is broken. But no matter how much I wiggled it, no pulse again.

Ill be ordering a new harness next week for the opti. It sounds like its out of time but im pretty sure the opti was lined up correct when I put it in, I didnt hear it "pop" into place like people said it should, but it seemed to slide right on the cam dowel, so looks like the optis coming out again.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Sorry its been so long since Ive updated, but ive been super super busy at work and had no time to work on it, but I managed to buy a new GM opti off 'tech and a slave cylinder. Tonight I put the opti in, hooked it up and wouldnt you know it......


She fired right up!!!! Oh my gosh I cant describe how awesome it felt to hear her take a deep breath of air!! And boy was it loudd, strait out of the shortiesand im sure the cops are going to show up any minute, lol. I took a video and ill post it later on.

Still have a few things to tie together and things to check out. I only ran it for about 20 seconds, the driver side header heated up, but the pass. side header is cool to the touch. And theres a little bit of smoke out of the pass side header so I probably have a spark problem but ill check it out later, for now im going to watch the Bears beat up the Niners

But thank you to all the people who stuck with me through this long *** process(z28ricer,89454rs thank you so much). But still have a ways to go.

Cheers!

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Good to hear your battles today went better than mine, I learned a 4L60E backed up LT1 doesnt seem like its going to fit to my hopes in a 240sx, especially compared to what i've pulled off with the LSx/T56.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to hear it man. im not too worried about power. Just gunna be a weekend/grocery car. lol

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

hope this link works
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=534479623247909

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Congrats man! I'm glad you finally got it running.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

thanks man!

89rs454

Glad to hear you got it running man good job.

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Thanks buddy. Stoked to finnaly hear her run! I know it seems like I havent done much in a few months but ive spent many hours tracing wires, testing and retesting grounds and reading diagrams. I just cant beleive it was the opti this whole time. I think im going to do a 24x conversion over the summer, and start gathering parts in spring. From what ive read everyone loves the tuning capabilities of the LS1 PCM, and it seems pretty strait forward. Even though the opti is brand new and works great, if it can just leave you stranded like that its not something I want to risk. I plan on seeing alot of highway miles on this car and dont want to be stranded a few hundred miles from my bank. lol

But for now im just going to get it driving, just have to get the slave hooked up and brakes bled. Im hoping with no more major snags I can take it around the block before christmas. Then finish the exhaust and put it to rust until spring Getting excited, I cant really remember what its like to drive my car.

Tinbender59

Dang Z28RICER you do know ur Sh-----stuff lol

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Thats just the factory diagnostic procedure.

I make sure i've got the right stuff on hand for the job, dont like going in circles

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

yes those were a big help when doing testing.

89rs454

When i was doing my wiring i went way back in this forum when you first did your lt1 swap threads and it helped me out a lot. I was all the way back in 02 threads with 100 tabs opened trying to comprehend all the information i could. You and pocket made it easy with wiring. Pocket got the basics, but you helped with the odd things that get overlooked and unanswered. Off topic but do you still have your lt1 thirdgen?

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

So i was working on the car last night and had a bit of a brain blast.. Ive been trying all weekend to get my balancer on. I read the thread on the threaded rod through the crank hub bolt hole, but i havent been able to find the right size. So last night I took realized I never even took out the crank hub bolt, but there wasnt one there, and thats when it hit me.......

When i bought the car the opti was recently replaced as ive already stated, so he balancer has been off at one point which would explain why it fell right off. So I figured he might have just forgot to put it back in..OR he tried to press the hub back on with just the 2.25" crank hub bolt which from what I have read thats very bad.

So I grabbed a thi bolt and put it in the crank hub to feel the threads and sure enough, smooth as ice. Cant beleive it took me almost a week to peice that together.. So to my question, can i simply re-tap the 7/16 X 20 threads or does the whole crank hub need to be removed? Or do the threads actually lie in the crankshaft snout itself?

Sorry its not much of an update. Getting the exhaust done next week i hope and then figuring out how to bleed this clutch. Ive done a clutch on my s10 and the bleeder was in plain sight and from what i can see online it lies INSIDE the trans by the clutch fork. No bueno

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

after 3 minutes of searching I found out thats re tapping the threads probably cant handle the 74lbs of torque the bolt requires. So people said helicoils work fine but after taking a look at the im just not convinced, looks like its just a spring that threads into the thread.
So I think im going to go with these timeserts:


Everyone one tech had great things to say about them.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Sounds painful!

I don't see any reason why you couldn't just drill the snout out, tap it and go up to the next size bolt. Thoughts?

I wouldn't use a Heli-coil either. My idea would be cheaper too

cprmn14

iTrader: (3)

Sorry for the Jimmy Nuetron quote lol. Im aftraid that if i re-tap it, then it wont be able to hold 74'lbs of torque. And with a timesert it takes the pressure off the crank threads, so i think thats what im going to do. I havent heard a bad thing about either so im not too worried.

I would usually go cheaper with this route, but when researching this ive seen alot of horror stories about balancers coming off at the strip, so its a good investment i guess.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Drilling and going up a size would work just fine, Heli-coil is stronger than the original threads, not sure why people who havent installed them come up with the idea that they arent a good idea.


I dont know what kind of foolish people would suggest the next size up bolt will not handle the torque that was required of a smaller bolt, but that makes no sense, at all, if you re-tapped it the next size larger, it would be just fine.

And again, helicoil is stronger than the original threads, timesert is definetly good, but there is nothing wrong with the Helicoil choice.

Unless you are using an LS1 transmission, the bleeder isnt inside, the bleeder on the LT1 style clutch is on the slave cylinder just like a thirdgen bleeder.

No, traded it for a rare 92 Heritage car, which got totalled while a friend was driving it.

However I just got a complete LT1/4L60E which both are rebuilt and it has a full valvetrain upgrade, tried seeing about a few local 92's the other day but both were sold when I asked about them, so right now im either going to sell the setup for more stuff for my 240, or find a 92 to put it in, we'll see.