five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As chronicled here last July, with the 3rd rear set-up (Quick Performance 9", BMR Trak Pak TA), I suffered a "catastrophic failure" while trying to work out launch technique. The issue involved the combination of the way Quick Performance provided a torque arm mount ( http://www.quickperformance.com/Prod...s/qp_fbody.gif http://www.quickperformance.com/Prod.../qp_fbody1.gif ) which allows side-to-side motion, and the way the Trak Pak torque arm adjustment eyebolts fit in their mount bracket (the bottom will squeeze tight to the bracket, but the top doesn't, which puts the bottom eyebolt in the position of taking up all of the side-to-side motion). Since the QP mount provides adjustability, I really don't need adjustment in the torque arm, so one solution would be to make the TA solid. Another would be to side-brace the QP mount.

But, I also don't much like the way the Trak Pak crossbrace sticks down. So, there are a couple of solutions with non-adjustable torque arms - the Jegster, which mounts to tunnel, a tranny crossmember mounted torque arm (which destroys exhaust routing), or just go back to a transmission-mounted torque arm (aftermarket, of course).

I went with a transmission-mounted torque arm with the LS1/4L60E, and frankly I don't have a problem with it. But, manual trannies are a different animal suspension-wise than automatics, so I'm not sure it's a valid comparison.

Regardless of what I end up doing, this LS1/T56 car will see both street and strip duty. I don't want to keep spending money on it, but I want it to hold together this time. And, I need to get this sorted out before I start working on the LQ4/4L80E for the '57...

What do you think?

(BTW, my son picked up a 5.3 for his '96 S10. A couple of weeks ago the truck was in the local community college parking lot when it started to snow. A '90 Accord came around the corner too fast and smacked into the back of the S10, bending up the bumper, tailgate, box, and frame - he's been offered $4500 to turn in the truck. He's trying to decide whether to keep & fix it (minus $800 to keep it), or take the money and get something else to put the 5.3 into.)

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I have a Moser 12 bolt and i made my own crossmember for the Spohn TQ arm and i am happy with it, but dont use the spherical mount if noiseois of concern.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

i know that mine is not going together yet. but a buddy of mine has the jegster and likes it. lot of bolts. but i dont like the tranny or crossmember mount either. so when mine goes in the jegster will be put in. now i know he hammers his all the time. the 4th 406 small block. this one only 392 to the wheels.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

What I'd really like to have is a double hump piece like Hawks sells but with a cross member mount for the torque arm like the Spohn piece. I like my Spohn torque arm but I HATE the cross member. I'd even pay one of you guys to modify a hawks cross member if you knew how to do it.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

here is a good post about the jegster and a custom one.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...djustable.html

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Another thing I've considered is taking the car to a chassis shop and having them modify the Trak Pak so it mounts directly to the tabs on the housing - basically eliminate the QP links/mount and the Trak Pak mounts and extending the Trak Pak so it's one piece. I believe a member has fab'd something like that as well. That would still leave the crossbrace (not too big a deal, but the link bolt does come awfully close to the 3" DOM steel driveshaft - another reason I'm considering a different set-up).

Oh, I also plan on removing the Skulte tranny crossmember and going with a Hawks LS1/T56 double hump. The Skulte was made for LT1 T56, and I had to shim it to keep the tranny from hitting the tunnel, and elongate the hole for the mount bolt to get it to line up. Was never very happy about all that.

sargenewk17

iTrader: (2)

I (and by "I" I mean my dad who is an excellent welder/ fabricator) combined the Spohn crossmember torque arm mount with the Hawks double-hump and it does help with the exhaust routing. If anyone still cares about it in May, then I'll get some pictures and post them up.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

I hear what your saying....I feel the same way. I almost bought the Hawks piece so that I could just weld on the mount for the trans mounted style torque arm(which I already have). Right now I am running a x-member that I made serveral years ago but am not happy with it because of exhaust clearance. This spring I will be making one very similar to Hawk's piece (only a little more beefy) and then weld on the stock style TA mount.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

For now I think I'll just go back to tranny mounted. The 4th gen tranny mount has a fail-safe built into it, so I'm not too concerned about that. Having learned the hard way about really-too-short arms (LCA's turned into ladder bars) and having seen a short torque arm improve things drastically (although not completely), I'm thinking getting that arm mount back up front again will be the ticket.

And I'll probably be told (again) that I'm off-track, and have to learn the next lesson the hard way as well...

(Oh, side note: My son & I drove up to Casper this afternoon and picked up a 2001 S10 Blazer with 5.3 bored to 5.7, forged flat-tops, shaved 317 heads, a pretty lumpity cam, LS1 intake, custom headers, duals, Hughes 4L60E, 4000 stall, 3.42 Eaton - for less than it probably cost to put the engine together - certainly less than the engine/trans. Has 600 miles on the build - well, 900 now. Some tuning needed, but man, this was a steal!)

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

Hotchkiss ?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I don't think I'll be back-halving it anytime soon...

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

Did I miss the thread about the failure of the rear setup? I am really leaning towards that 9" so I would like to learn everything I can about them.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...rformance.html

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

Damn, well I guess it's back to the drawing board for me. I wish I could find someone to do me up an 8.8 for not a lot of coin I would definitely go that route.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The QP rear would be fine as long as you don't use an adjustable torque arm.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Guess I've been talked into a Jegster non-adjustable.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

nice steal on the truck! i was just going to say to find another S10 to do the swap or whatever he wishes. i'd love to get an S10 Stepside and do an LSx swap, but i want the truck i get to be practical and to use in the snow lol. (long bed fleet side)

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yeah, the Blazer was quite a find. He's had to spend a little money on it, dyno tune, better cooling fans, but not as much as he would have spent swapping the 5.3 into the S10. He was able to barter the 5.3 for a dyno tune, put down 308 to the rear wheels. He needs to replace the windshield, find rims to put slicks onto, get a 2-step, get a helmet, stuff like that, but he's looking forward to the racing season like never before. Thinks he's going to outrun Dad for a change (probably not, but I'll let him think so until we both get our first 2011 time slips...).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I had to concentrate on the LS1/4L60E for awhile to fix an oil leak (oil pan gasket), low end noise, and converter restall. The low end noise turned out to be the TC; it got lost in shipping for a week when sent back to the manufacturer, set me way back in getting that running for the first race of the 2011 season, but I got it running at 1:02 a.m. the morning of the 22nd (the first race was that evening). The Camaro is still a good second quicker than the Blazer, but there are probably a couple of things to address with the Blazer (fuel pressure for one thing). The LS1/4L60E still is on a factory tune as well, so there' probably more left in it.

Anyway, finally got the LS1/T56 back in the air this evening. I had parked it in the garage Friday afternoon before going to the track with the other car, and at about 7 p.m. this evening got the coveralls on and reached for the floor jack. First thing I saw was a puddle of antifreeze under the car - great, this thing has been leak-tight, and now it's spewing. First thought was I didn't have enough antifreeze in it and cracked the block, but turns out the water pump is leaking. So, I started draining the radiator while I went back to the task of getting the driveshaft out of the transmission.

Just getting the u-joint back out of the pinion yoke required disconnecting/removing the springs, shocks, and LCAs. Then I was able to move the rear back and get the driveshaft to drop. I jacked the rear back up to get it out of the way, stuck a big prybar into the rear u-joint and started whacking away at it (best I could laying on my side with a jackstand under the front LCA mount point and under the LCA mount on the rear end) with a 10-pound sledge hammer. After I banged on that thing for half an hour (with frequent stops to reposition everything, see if there was any movement, etc.), I finally had it out a whole 1/4". A few more whacks, though, and it finally popped out. The damage is all to the yoke (Spicer 1350), and the transmission output shaft looks fine. The shop that fab'd the driveshaft (3" DOM, 1350 joints & yokes) speculated that the yoke was what got hurt, not the tranny, and thankfully they were right. The yoke splines were twisted in two different places, was jammed back into the transmission when I fixed the TA link, and jamming it back into the twisted splines is why it was so hard to remove.

Oh, not sure this has been mentioned, but when I removed the ladder bar set-up, I had to pull one axle, and discovered its splines are slightly twisted (Moser axles). So, I need to pull them as well and see about getting new axles.

New shaft to be fab'd, new axles, ordering the Jegster non-adjustable TA, new shocks (the lower mounts were bent, one finally broke off, in the pinion reach-for-the-sky "event"), new water pump - maybe this will be ready for the first stickshift race on May 14th.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Its funny what you can do with a little bit of power(kinda) and a lot of traction.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Poorly thought-out rear suspension mostly (entirely my own fault). The tires were literally coming off the pavement at launch. The shock of manual transmission coupled with reshock when the tires came back down did a bunch of damage.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

if its still seeing street time why the short arm? I would think installing a third leg to the QP housing would be the ticket here. it would stop your side to side movement. (what sucks is that was one of the strong contenders when I was deciding on a rear)

Im not a fan of the trans mounts offered for our cars much less the t56. nothing looks better than an off set mount hanging on bolts 4" forward with traction and hard braking involved




I have no finished pictures but this gives a good idea of the direction I went with it. the bends fit the subframe perfectly down to the end. I have bracing up to the TQ mounting tube. and I welded threaded plates inside the end of the subframe I can hang on the TQ arm and it doesnt move the trans at all. the spohn mount I had on my last car.. that allows movement since it relys on the bolts forward of the trans mount. I just cant accept that is safe when the arm pushes down under braking and lifts up under take off

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The BMR I now have and the Jegster are the same length. It isn't an issue on the street, and even if it was, I'd sacrifice a little street manners for better strip manners.

I've looked at a third (or fourth) link on the QP housing, and although that may do it, I'd like to get rid of that crossmember that sticks down with the Trak Pak. The Jegster tucks up nicely out of the way.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

Your skepticism led me to do a bit of research being far from a suspension expert myself. I don't know much else about your car but have you considered maybe the rear springs could be to blame? In one of the articles I read it stated:

"choose a spring to soft and the rear axle will tear itself from the bottom of the car, choose a spring to stiff and you will shock the chassis whenever the gas is mashed."

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

They are "soft" Berlinetta springs, and the rear was hopping off of the pavement with the ladder bars. With the Trak Pak, it was doing well until the link broke.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

one thing to watch with the jegster is the area of sheet metal around the outside of the saddle can rip.



my car has a couple small rips in the floor where that saddle used to ride, and the fastest it ever went with that owner was 7.20's in the eighth IIRC

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

I know a few people running these (also why I asked about the street manners with the shorter arm)

one thing I was "told" is to weld some plate? or plates on the inside of the car really beefs them up and seems to solve that issue

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

8's are probably as quick as this will ever go. I had wondered about beefing up the sheet metal, so I'll look into that. I have some 3/16" x 3" strap that I could put to use.

I got the axles pulled, only the one that I had already observed is twisted. I'll see how much new ones are going to cost and decide whether I want to do both or just the one that's twisted.

Also have the Trak Pak out. I'll make someone a good deal on it if interested.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Dropped the driveshaft & axles at the shop this morning. They said as long as I'm not upgrading to more splines, might as well just replace the damaged axle. The driveshaft will either be rebuilt (might be able to salvage the tube and front u-joint yoke - the tranny yoke and rear u-joint & yoke are toast), or another fabricated to replace it.

I also picked up a new water pump and rear shocks this morning. The Jegster torque arm is supposed to be shipped today.

I'll try to replace the water pump tonight, then pull the console and seats to get ready for the torque arm. Not a lot of time to get this done, a lot of things going on evenings (preparation for daughter's wedding next month) and weekend (racing).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Picked up the driveshaft. They were able to reuse the tube and front U-joint yoke. New output yoke, rear U-joint yoke, two new 1350 U-joints, assemble & rebalance, it's ready to go. But, it won't go back in until after the TA is installed.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, how about that - the Jegster torque arm was waiting for me when I got home today. The box looked in much better shape (FedEx) than what I usually see (UPS).

Everything was fine, except no instructions in the box.

On hold with Jegs tech support...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

"Steve" is going to email the instructions to me.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

i see that you have the same luck i have with shipping companies!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This was one of the better recent shipping experiences I've had.

After mounting the one axle I have and removing the broken shocks, I started getting things ready to mount the Jegster. First thing was to fit the slider - it wouldn't "slide". Bunch of little weld splatter ***** in the tube. Had to file those out with a round file and clean it out with brake cleaner. Next, mounting it to the rear, couldn't get both bolts to slide through - one hole was about half a hole off. Since I didn't have to do that with the BMR bracket, I have to assume the Jegster wasn't quite drilled correctly. I oval'd out the hole that would leave the most meat, and got it to mount.

Trial fitting the saddle with the slider attached, banging back the sheet metal that got mangled in the TA failure (some more massaging required there), that's about as far as I got tonight. Next is to remove the seats & console, and get the saddle bolted in.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I "think" the bracket is installed by basically setting the car at ride height and pulling out 1" of the slider out of the torque arm and installing there. I had no luck removing the bracket and drilling holes that I marked and found it to be much easier to just drill using the bracket to hold the bits in place for me. I also think 1 or 2 of the bolts I couldn't use because they lined up perfectly with the seat braces inside the car so no way to get to them. Could just be where I have my rear end compared to others since I have rod ended lowers.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yes, the instructions pretty much say to do it that way. Except the slider is supposed to be 3/4" out with the suspension loaded, jack stands under the axle. You pretty much drill the holes with the saddle in place. The rear springs are going to be holding the saddle up when doing it this way.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Ah 3/4" perfect....just going off my terrible memory from maybe 6 years ago when I first installed the thing. I think you'll like it

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I hope so. I've searched TGO several times about it, I don't recall anyone running it with a manual tranny. Tranny brake is close, but still not the shock a manual puts on everything in a high-RPM sticky tire launch.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I used the MSD LS 2-step module when I first got the car going last year, but pulled it out to put it in the LS1/4L60E car, so I needed to get another one. Ordered from Summit.

Also, the car doesn't have any exhaust beyond the Hawks LTs with Magnaflow spun cats behind them (did have duals, but had to cut them off for the Trak Pak). Rather than try the duals again (didn't really work that well routing-wise), I'm going to do what I did with the other car, just have a "Y" built to mate it to a 3rd gen type cat-back. Since I don't have such a system right now, I decided to order that at the same time.

I broke a vow and went with Flowmaster again, this time the single in/out Force II. Opinions seem to vary on it (like opinions usually do), but it should flow better than an 80 series crossflow. I considered and just about ordered the Hooker system, but didn't like the dual tips (I need down-turn tips to clear the trailer hitch); and considered the Magnaflow but hate those 3.5" tips. We'll see how this works out. It'll probably be a couple of weeks before I get it installed and hooked up, anyway. Oh, I also ordered band clamps to hold it together instead of the U-bolt clamps that come with it.

The packages should be delivered Monday.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Correction: The Jegster is about 6" shorter.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

that's kind of what I always have been told. never saw the trac pac in person though


I'm still thinking its getting duel 3" stainless (already have the bends and pipes) once I put the hawks headers on the car. but I'm in the same boat as you and I think I will end up with some single chamber stainless flowmasters

I want quiet but the singles have the sound I'm after with a stainless body and guts.

I may just run a resonator before each one to tame them down so Im not pissing off too many people

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Didn't get much work done over the weekend. Friday evening was racing. I figured I could get something done after getting back from the track after Saturday racing, but that dragged on and on (no pun intended), made my last pass 15 minutes after midnight, so no work done on Saturday. Sunday was Mother's Day, you don't work on the car on Mother's Day (unless it's Mom's car, of course - which this isn't).

Monday UPS dropped off (from the looks of the box, literally) the exhaust system and 2-step. I didn't have much time to work on it in the evening, but got the 2-step installed except for the wire to the clutch, and got the seats out for the Jegster install. Have a meeting this evening, so won't get to it today. Wednesday & Thursday evenings look good for getting something done, and I have Friday off (until Friday evening racing, of course...).

So, just might get this thing running in time for the stick shift race on Saturday. I won't get the exhaust done, but I can live with that. Should get it the following week.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Moser finally delivered the new axle, and the shop pressed on a new bearing (when he went to press off the bearing from the old axle, he said the old bearing "exploded"...). Picked that up this morning.

We'll see how much I can get done now. I don't enjoy taking the interior apart.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, got rear put back together, new shocks installed.

Now the Jegster saddle is mounted up. Drilling some of the holes was "interesting". Had to enlist my wife to hold the bolts from the inside while I tightened from underneath (son is at work). The second set of bolts from the front went right under the floor support that holds the back of the front seats and goes over the tunnel, so I had to get a little "creative" to get the bolts in there (and one of the fender washer slid down inside the support as I was trying to get the bolt in... ).

Need to remount the seats, grease the TA "slider", adjust the pinion angle, mount the rear tires, and drop it back down and it should be ready to go.

Gate opens at the track in 2 hours...

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

let me know how that torque arm looks under there, did it bolt right up to the quick housing?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I didn't take the time to get photos because I was scrambling pretty hard to get it put together so I could get to the track in the other car. I posted on your thread in the Org Racing forum that it sits pretty close to the tunnel. It did bolt right up, but could (maybe should) be redrilled to fit closer to the driveshaft. I'll have to take a closer look at the parallelism to the DS to see if it makes sense to try that.

It looks like adjusting the pinion angle is going to be a royal pain. The whole mount has to be removed, which requires removing the TA. There isn't a good surface to mount the angle finder, so removing the driveshaft will also be required so you can use the pinion yoke as your flat surface (90 degrees off from the driveshaft, of course). I did a quick check (as best I could with the DS mounted) and it looked like I had 3 degrees down, so I left it to see how it did - it rumbles pretty good on the highway, but wasn't quite as bad going down the track.

Speaking of going down the track, I took it out for the first "Stick Shift" race of the year. I decided to use the smaller 9.50-26x14 Quick Time Pro DOTs at 16 PSI just to make sure it wasn't going to fall apart on me this time (rather than the larger 10.50-27x15's that I had on last year when the Trak Pak broke). I took a guess at launch RPMs and set the 2-step at 4500. It spun something fierce at the hit, but the 60' was still pretty decent compared to the past - but I wasn't ready for the 1-2 shift and it was banging the rev limiter before I finally pulled it into 2nd, however the ET and MPH were still the best ever it's run. 2nd TT I dropped the launch RPMs to 4200 and tire pressure to 14 PSI, still spun pretty bad and bogged a little. This time I hit the shift points and it improved the ET by a tenth and almost maintained the MPH.

Here are the time slips - I'm in the left lane on the left slip, and right lane on the right slip (just to make it simple... ) :




The "6618" and "6639" were the density altitude #'s per my weather station for each run, in case you are wondering about the ET and MPH. Humidity was 58%, which is pretty high for here and typically slows the car down.

We got rained out before the first round of eliminations, so those were the only runs I got.

Next time out I'll go ahead and use the larger slicks and see how it does. The next Stick Shift race is June 25th, so hopefully by that time I'll have the pinion angle adjusted and the exhaust finished. Still need to consider how to beef up the tunnel sheet metal, guess I'll try to do that as well.

BTW, how do you like the car # I managed to get?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Got the car back up in the air this weekend. I installed the Hawks transmission crossmember, which freed up a little room and dropped the tranny away from the tunnel. Rechecking the pinion angle, it was a tad over 1 degree down, so I didn't to through the hassle of pulling the mount to make an adjustment.

Got the Force II exhaust system installed, with hangers in the rear and coat hanger in the front. It's going into the shop Monday morning to get a Y-pipe connected to the I-pipe. I like the way the tailpipe tucks up then the turn-down tip clears the hitch perfectly. The system came with U-clamps, but I got lap-type band clamps to put it together - looks nice, hopefully they'll be leak tight without crushing the pipes like U-clamps do. And, hopefully it won't be too loud or too restrictive.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Oh, there won't be any "redrilling" of the Jegster to get it closer to the driveshaft. The back of the mount plates is angled, so trying to get it closer would require first welding on more material, or welding new mount plates onto the TA, or cutting the existing plates off the TA and welding the TA back on closer to the third member. I don't think I'm going to try that right now...

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The shop called late this afternoon saying the exhaust is finished. I couldn't get over there before he had to leave, so I'm picking it up Wednesday. I'm borrowing my wife's camera so I can take pictures (if it's still on the lift when I get there), and video of how it sounds.

Did I mention I like the way the turn-down single tailpipe tucks up?

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Did you end up doing a y pipe?