What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway? - Page 8 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards


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What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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Old 01-31-2016, 08:08 AM   #351  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Subscribing to this for future reference since I think you have hit every topic on these cars...
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Old 02-06-2016, 08:22 PM   #352  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

The garage is cold so I have moved inside to work on the software. Got a laptop with Windows 7 Pro and loaded the Holley HP software. First thing I discovered is when they say it is "self tuning", what they mean is it populates fuel tables. That's it. Every other darn thing is up to you. So much for my dreams of turning the key and driving!

So it looks like I will have to be a part time tuner after all. I have been hunting down information that I never knew existed and learning all the while. One thing I have accomplished is setting up my custom Inputs & Outputs. Everybody has a different idea how to utilize these so I will share what I did.

T56 Reverse Lockout Solenoid -- This is something you lose when you go to a Holley HP. Factory LS1 locks/unlocks the solenoid at a low speed (5 mph ?). I wanted that feature back and Holley tech didn't know how to do it. Even their own shop truck doesn't have a functioning reverse lockout. I got it figured out.

The key is getting a speed signal that the Holley HP can understand. It is looking for a Hall Effect speed sensor and the T56 doesn't have it. Holley HP software calculates ground speed (MPH) from the measured frequency (Hz) of the speed sensor. It needs the following to do the calculation:

* Speed sensor "Pulses Per Rotation" (PPR)
* gear ratio
* tire size

I used Output 1 (Calibrated AC output signal) of the Dakota Digital SGI-5c as a speed dependent input to the Holley HP ECU. The trick is to input the correct PPR so the MPH calculation is calibrated to the speed signal being fed to the ECU. Basically, you need to create a virtual speed sensor. The T56 speed sensor is 17 PPR (pulse per revolution) so begin with that and adjust until the virtual speedometer gives correct value. Now I have a custom Input that measures MPH, and I can go set up a custom Output to operate the reverse lockout solenoid.

Update: I ended up settling on a value of 43 PPR to calibrate the virtual speedometer.





Last edited by QwkTrip; 03-13-2018 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 02-06-2016, 08:38 PM   #353  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

I also set up a custom Input and Output to operate the AC relay. All the custom Input does is sense when +12V is supplied by the AC head unit in the cab when I put the selector in AC or Defrost mode. The custom Output (shown below) commands the AC relay on and off. I have it set up so the AC only turns on when engine is running, and turns off any time I am at full throttle. I also added a 1 second debounce before turning on AC so that I can fiddle with HVAC controls and not have AC clicking on/off as I sweep the lever.







I have two fans for the radiator. #1 fan turns on at a lower coolant temp and is disabled any time I go full throttle or engine is off. #2 fan turns on at a higher coolant temp, or runs constantly with AC. It also can be run with engine off if I switch on the AC. The AC relay won't activate, but the fan will kick on. I can use this to cool the engine while in the staging line at the drag strip.
Update: I must have done something right because the speed shop marveled at how cool my engine ran on the dyno, even with a stock LS1 thermostat.






And this is how I utilized the custom inputs and outputs. I assigned "AC kick" to Input 2 and tied that to the AC compressor switch control.


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Old 02-08-2016, 10:43 AM   #354  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

That's pretty awesome to see. Definitely have to consider this for my next build.
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:34 PM   #355  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Ya, those custom driver options are pretty neat! Like right now I just thought to myself that I might put a 5 second delay for AC after engine start up so the engine can settle in and stabilize idle before the AC compressor kicks on. Your imagination is the limit. And it doesn't take crazy software skills to do it!
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:16 AM   #356  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

i wish i could swing the cost of this system. i'm again rewiring my car and would love to incorporate this system, but it's just way out of budget
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:43 AM   #357  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Yep u can do some great things with the holley efi
I have the dominator and i am always learning what it can do
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:50 AM   #358  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

By the time you get done with an OE harness, looming it, buying an ECM, two O2 sensors, paying for HP Tuner, and a MAF big enouph for your power level.... A person could have HP EFI. This thing was free after I sold all that stuff.
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:11 AM   #359  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Oh, and I sold the stand-alone wide-band O2 needed to tune with a stock ECM. The true cost adds up!
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:57 AM   #360  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

yeah i'd have to change a lot though since the cam is for a carb setup too. meh, i'd be making a lot more work for myself than i have time for right now.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:16 AM   #361  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Oh, things are lookin' up!

Turns out I have one of the best Holley HP tuning shops in the nation within 30 minute drive of my house! Heck ya, I'm going to pay that guy! I'm also on the schedule at another shop to get the welding done for torque arm and a few other things. (FINALLY!)

All I have to do is get the car road worthy, and I can handle that!
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:50 AM   #362  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

awesome. would love to see this thing finally hit the road
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Old 02-12-2016, 06:24 AM   #363  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Very very cool and well thought out, excited to see the results.
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Old 02-12-2016, 01:38 PM   #364  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Love the build!
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Old 02-16-2016, 11:40 PM   #365  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

I did heater hoses and heater valve patterned after BlueZee28 and GhettoCruiser. Not sure who came up with idea first so I'll just say both. The only thing I did different is use some spring clamps instead of worm clamps. Parts list is below.

After being so fussy about some things it is kind of funny how bad the heater hoses look. I tried a different routing but the hoses kept kinking every time I deviated from the natural lay, so in the end I just stopped fighting with it and let the hoses lay where they want to lay. I also had to remove the entire coil pack to get access to install the hoses to the heater core.




Coolant diverter valve, and the spring clamps I found.




Same spring clamps at the water pump.




Parts list consists of,

Hose, Dayco part number 80405 (Qty 2)
Hose, Dayco part number 80416 (Qty 2)
Heater Valve, Everco part number 5930 (Qty 1)
Spring Clamp, Caterpillar part number 269-3086 (Qty 4)
Spring Clamp, Caterpillar part number 356-5792 (Qty 4)

I have learned that high quality bolts and clamps are remarkably inexpensive from Caterpillar. Who would have guessed that?!

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Old 02-17-2016, 05:45 AM   #366  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

I routed my heater hoses similarly and had the same problem.... they just want to go in that one spot!
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Old 02-17-2016, 08:31 PM   #367  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

There are a bunch of versions of the steam line mod out there. This is what I did....

My radiator only has ports for trans cooler. I have a manual trans so those ports aren't being used. I simply drilled a hole through the trans cooler and screwed in a barb fitting. Done. 3 minutes and $4.




Trans cooler fittings in the radiator uses an inverted flare, just like brake lines. I bought a Dorman part number 785-402 from the local auto parts store with an inverted flare and 1/2-20 thread on one end, and a 5/16" hose barb on the other end. A 1/4" hose barb would have been preferable but I couldn't find one and this is close enough to push on the 1/4" hose.




If you've never seen the trans cooler inside the radiator, it basically looks like a thin wall pipe that runs top to bottom inside the radiator side tank. I simply drilled through the center of the fitting until the drill bit broke through the tube. I used the largest bit I could without damaging the inverted flare (15/32 drill bit), greased the bit to catch shavings, and went very slowly to avoid mistakes.




Finished product. Contrary to popular opinion, the radiator side of steam line does not have to be at the highest point in the cooling system. The engine side does have to be at a high point, but GM engineers already took care of that for you. The radiator is a low pressure region and the pressure differential between engine and radiator will push the air to the radiator.


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Old 02-18-2016, 06:47 AM   #368  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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Trans cooler fittings in the radiator uses an inverted flare, just like brake lines. I bought a Dorman part number 785-402 from the local auto parts store with an inverted flare and 1/2-20 thread on one end, and a 5/16" hose barb on the other end. A 1/4" hose barb would have been preferable but I couldn't find one and this is close enough to push on the 1/4" hose.
And a plug for the bottom trans cooler fitting, right?
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:35 AM   #369  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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There are a bunch of versions of the steam line mod out there. This is what I did....

My radiator only has ports for trans cooler. I have a manual trans so those ports aren't being used. I simply drilled a hole through the trans cooler and screwed in a barb fitting. Done. 3 minutes and $4.



Trans cooler fittings in the radiator uses an inverted flare, just like brake lines. I bought a Dorman part number 785-402 from the local auto parts store with an inverted flare and 1/2-20 thread on one end, and a 5/16" hose barb on the other end. A 1/4" hose barb would have been preferable but I couldn't find one and this is close enough to push on the 1/4" hose.



If you've never seen the trans cooler inside the radiator, it basically looks like a thin wall pipe that runs top to bottom inside the radiator side tank. I simply drilled through the center of the fitting until the drill bit broke through the tube. I used the largest bit I could without damaging the inverted flare (15/32 drill bit), greased the bit to catch shavings, and went very slowly to avoid mistakes.



Finished product. Contrary to popular opinion, the radiator side of steam line does not have to be at the highest point in the cooling system. The engine side does have to be at a high point, but GM engineers already took care of that for you. The radiator is a low pressure region and the pressure differential between engine and radiator will push the air to the radiator.

That's one of the cleanest steam lines I have seen when they didn't already have the port built in. Nice job!
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:45 AM   #370  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Actually, you bring up a good point. Both were already capped and sealed to flange with a paper gasket. I did replace the bottom cap with an inverted flare plug to get a better seal. Just didn't trust the original caps.
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Old 02-21-2016, 11:28 PM   #371  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

After 16 years.... there is a heartbeat


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Old 02-22-2016, 07:07 AM   #372  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

fantastic! that has to be an amazing feeling
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Old 02-22-2016, 07:53 AM   #373  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

You know it!

Only chassis is powered right now. Still have lots of circuits to check. I've done so much custom wiring that I need to proceed methodically until I know everything is fine.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:10 PM   #374  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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After 16 years.... there is a heartbeat

Love the pic!
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:37 PM   #375  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Bled the brakes and had my wife stand on the brake pedal.... Not a single leak! Just between you and me, I didn't expect that, seeing as yours truly made all the brake lines.

After poking at things tonight it looks like all my chassis wiring is good. Just need to replace an electrical switch for HVAC and the headlight door module - but no wiring mistakes that I know of. Next step is to power up the underhood fuse box, which frankly is about 50% of the wiring in the car and is 100% my creation.... so ya, I'm a bit nervous.

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Old 02-24-2016, 10:42 PM   #376  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

This is a very simple thing but fun to share. I swapped out the 5-speed shift pattern inlay in the center console with a 6-speed shift pattern inlay that I purchased from Hawks Thirdgen.

The inlay is set in the center console and held in place by the light bulb housing. The housing is glued to the lid of the center console, and glued rather well in my case. I used a razor knife to help break the bond, and very slowly and carefully kept prying it away until it came off.




New shift plate in place and housing glued back on (with a little less glue this time! ) It will light up just like the original.


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Old 02-24-2016, 10:53 PM   #377  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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It looks like it came from the factory that way! Nice.
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Old 02-27-2016, 05:14 PM   #378  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Appears that all the electrical is working. Holley ECM is loaded with my start up tune and I can read the sensors on the laptop.

I've been using a jump start battery pack to do all this testing. Now I just need to make proper battery cables and then I should be able to start the engine.
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Old 02-27-2016, 06:57 PM   #379  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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Appears that all the electrical is working. Holley ECM is loaded with my start up tune and I can read the sensors on the laptop.

I've been using a jump start battery pack to do all this testing. Now I just need to make proper battery cables and then I should be able to start the engine.
Do not it states in the directions use a charger or jump boxwith a holley ecu
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Old 02-27-2016, 11:05 PM   #380  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

It's just a battery. No different than any other battery except it doesn't last as long.

What they don't want you to do it charge the batteries with a fast charger that raises voltage too high.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:56 AM   #381  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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It's just a battery. No different than any other battery except it doesn't last as long.

What they don't want you to do it charge the batteries with a fast charger that raises voltage too high.
Ya its your ecu. So do what u think is right
But i know what is right and went to the holley training classes.
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Old 02-28-2016, 11:33 AM   #382  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Without explaining what I do for a living.... you don't need to worry about me and my battery. I got this one.

I would definitely appreciate your advice when I run into problems trying to program and tune. That's where I'm going to need some help as I am a total novice.
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Old 02-28-2016, 12:54 PM   #383  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

I have put the charger on my HP a few times never popped anything luckily. The holley stuff is great I use it on my tpi now but when I swap to a LS a simple main harness purchase all plug and play and it will be running since I can reuse the ecu main power hookup o2 sensor and injector harness.
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:46 PM   #384  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

If you read the Holley manual you might conclude the ECM is made of rice paper and filled with a substance that has an allergy to electricity. They write it that way because a portion of the market that buys their products need that kind of non-negotiable instruction or they will screw up the whole thing.

What you see in that manual are some general application guidelines, not the actual technical specs for the hardware. I am used to seeing engineering specs and I can tell you there is a lot more acceptable "grey area" than Holley leads you to believe. But those specs are confidential intellectual property so it won't make it into the manual, nor can the average person digest and make use of it anyway. For those that don't know what they are doing, then play it safe and follow their guidelines verbatim. If you're like me, you have a little deeper understanding why those rules exist, and what you can and can't do. I definitely do believe the HP ECM is not very robust and needs to be treated with white gloves.

And for anybody that thinks the Holley manual is perfect.... I'll just point out that Holley put the B+ circuit protection about 8 feet away from the battery close to ECM. That's not good design. They aren't protecting the wire from a battery short to ground. Circuit protection needs to be close to battery.

Last edited by QwkTrip; 02-28-2016 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 02-28-2016, 07:56 PM   #385  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Oooooh! It seems I have a problem.

I have a Gen IV engine that was supposed to be built with a 24x crank and cam sensor so I could run it with F-body LS1 ECM. I cranked the engine today and not getting a speed signal. It looks like I might have the original 58x crank and cam sensors after all, by mistake of the engine builder. The HP ECU can handle it but the harness has to be removed and reworked, maybe even taken apart.

This just got a whole lot of "un-fun" again.
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Old 02-28-2016, 10:11 PM   #386  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Back in business! Apparently I had a 4x cam sensor in a 24x system. Swapped the cam sensor outer wires (tan and red) and I got engine speed.
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:36 PM   #387  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

You can also turn off the cam sensor with the HP and just run off of the 24x or 58x crank sensor.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:57 AM   #388  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Please please PLEASE take a video of the first start. After all you've been through, you need to immortalize that moment!
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:12 PM   #389  
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Please please PLEASE take a video of the first start. After all you've been through, you need to immortalize that moment!
That's the plan!
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:31 PM   #390  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Priming the oil pump was a struggle. It just would not prime by cranking the engine. I had to use a power oiling system, which technically is the proper way. The LS oil pump is not self-priming and mine was no exception.

I wanted to pump oil into the galley located on the side of the block behind alternator, but I just couldn't loosen that stubborn plug. It was a torx head and it would not loosen without stripping. My next choice was the port above the oil filter. I used a Corvette oil cooler cover (p/n 12551587) so I could fill the system. When I was done I put the Camaro block-off cover back in place with a new gasket (p/n 12611384).

The oil system primes slooooooooooooow. I had 25 psi on it and it took probably 30 minutes or longer to push the oil thru. I drained the oil and did it again for good assurance and it took just as long. After that I visually verified every rocker arm was oiled, put the old block-off cover back in place and cranked the engine. Two 10 second cranks and the oil gauge went to 40 psi. Oil pump should now hold a prime until I do first startup.


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Old 03-03-2016, 07:30 AM   #391  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

now you're starting to tease get with it man and get it started!
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Old 03-03-2016, 11:21 PM   #392  
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now you're starting to tease get with it man and get it started!
I primed the fuel lines tonight and I'm chasing a few small leaks. Seems the aluminum -AN fittings don't play well with steel. Everywhere steel meets aluminum I am having to get extra tight.
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:31 PM   #393  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

I shall be using this as a guide. Knowing how much he puts in to calculations and how much research he does before hand I am confident that it is 100% correct
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Old 03-06-2016, 05:33 PM   #394  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

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I primed the fuel lines tonight and I'm chasing a few small leaks. Seems the aluminum -AN fittings don't play well with steel. Everywhere steel meets aluminum I am having to get extra tight.
This will possibly continue based on my experience with them. Because the CTE(Coefficient of Thermal Expansion) is significantly different between SST and AL fittings they come loose again after an unquantifiable number of hot/cold cycles. Especially the underhood ones! I had to safety wire the ones I used to stop it.

M
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Old 03-06-2016, 09:53 PM   #395  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Speed signal is gone again and I'm having a heck of a time figuring it out. No start up was possible today.
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:51 AM   #396  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

I don't care if it was 11:30pm at night, neighbors can just deal with it this one time!
(You will probably notice my wife likes to leave messages in the dust on the windows)

It doesn't want to idle yet. Most that run is around 1800 rpm.


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Old 03-07-2016, 05:50 AM   #397  
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Re: What ever happened to QwkTrip's car anyway?

Very nice!
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Old 03-07-2016, 05:52 AM   #398  
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R O W D Y ! ! !

it's a great feeling isn't it
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:37 AM   #399  
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Congrats!

Great feeling isn't it!
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Old 03-07-2016, 07:52 AM   #400  
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Sounds good!
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