blakecharles

wow, I always thought that it would be OBX to Knock Off the Hawks design (they do everything else and have okay welds).

Nothing wrong with Chinese made stuff as long as it's done right. Make no mistake, things are improperly made here in the USA too.... at least with the Chinese stuff, your not over paying for it.

People kill me with that "proud to pay" talk. If there where a good alternative to Hawks for $200 less most would not pay the difference merely because it was made in the USA. For the price, the hawks design could be tucked better. It's been said for quite a while now, and far as I can see... Hawks has done nothing about it.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

You and me both. I was begging him to build me a set last year.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

If you really knew, you would realize what you said is an oxymoron. Almost nothing made in China is "done right", not to mention that they steal designs made by hard working Americans. Most recently the BLATANT MSD 6AL knockoff's being passed off as real MSD boxes.

If you look at those pictures ALL of the welds look like crap, and I would wager an entire paycheck the "stainless" they use for the tubes is a much lower, inferior, grade compared to Stainless works or any of the other USA made headers.

It KILLS me to buy "grade 8" bolts, then only to see on the package "made in taiwan", or "made in China". More and more I realize that to get something made well you HAVE to buy it "Made in the USA". Just Sucks that ARP is so expensive. I have more money in bolts in my cars than some of you have in your entire exhaust systems

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Ever open up one of those MSD knock offs? I did and the real joke is inside. It's niothing multispark or cD.. it's just their knock off MSD hei module board in a large aluminum box LOL

What a POS! They copy everything, not just american.

Everything I order from Summit, Jegs or similar is always acoompanied by a stack of paperwork listing the country of origin for the parts in the shipment (something do do w/ HLS and export rules?) anyway, you would be SHOCKED to see that almost everything is from china or that region... even top dollar stuff.

blakecharles

what I said still stands.... it's just stupid to say that everything made outside of the USA is junk (not saying that's the case for these headers). Lots of stuff made in the USA is junk. Garbage is garbage no matter where it comes from.

Chinese companies can produce quality products if the contract money allows, or they can cut corners and make cheap garbage if the contract numbers don't add up. The problem is that they don't know how to say "NO". Here in the USA production would not even start if corners had to be cut.

They could produce a quality header, but after shipping and import costs... it might be about the same price as hawks.

blakecharles

on another note...

My 1989 Camaro RS Convertible has a "salvage title". Not only that, but I also live in California (Bay Area) and Smog + Emissions is a big issue. Police have mini sniffers and ppl frequently get pulled over just to do random smog check. If you refuse, you will be made to go to a STAR Smog center when you get your new tags.

I just happen to be doing a LS1 swap. I cannot justify spending $800+ on LT headers for a car that I never drive and that I may end up having to take off due to Smog... Not to mention, they cost nearly as much as the car!

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

These are the same headers that were *once being sold as ssw 1 3/4. Years back That is. Nobody was complaining about them until someone came foward and realized they were 1 5/8s and not true stainless steel.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

there is no real competition for the 3rd gen ls swap headers.
so the co. selling will charge what ever they see fit.
a good steel header priced around 3-400$ will cause the current ones available to come down in price.
i have no prob with the knock off headers. if they work with some clearancing or mods, fine by me. the high dollar.ones have been known to not fit correct 100% either :/

scooter

iTrader: (11)

If you look at most of the things you buy MOST of it is made oversea's, I think you would be hard pressed to REALLY find something made in the USA that is TRULY junk. I am not saying everything made in the USA isn't junk, but I think that most products made here are actually better. The problem is finding something made here anymore and I will support an American company even if it is more money.

If you're soooooo worried about smog in CA, you would stay with the manifolds, saying you are only going with these because they are cheaper is total BS because those things don't carry a C.A.R.B. sticker

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Then you have situations where Americans make stuff out of necessity but are competing with the Chinese, so things get rushed and quality control suffers.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Take a look at Brighton-Best and Camcar, much of their fasteners are still made in the US. The rest are Taiwan. I'd much rather buy from Taiwan than China.

Edit: almost forgot two of my favorites, Holo-Krome (everything still made in US) and Unbrako (made in a few places, but really good stuff).

I support these companies whenever possible, along with ARP.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

In my time with 1A, I've had the great opportunity to visit manufacturers overseas on a few occasion, including Taiwan.
There are quite a few who take pride in what they make and will not build a cheap/inferior part for the sake of big sales. They would rather pass on a sale than be associated with junk parts. They are state of the art, do amazing in-house testing, and aim to be better than OE.
On the flip side, there are those who want as much business as possible and will shortcut their way to mass production.
The market dictates where US companies buy their goods from. If customers insist on shopping on price alone, its a rush to the bottom. If people want to shop based on quality, the better stuff will become more commonplace.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I buy that. All of my Taiwan stuff is from name brand manufacturers from McMaster Carr. IMO, McMaster does not buy junk.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

I have to disagree alittle bit on the import vs US made, name vs knock-off. Twin you mentioned if you can afford a toy car then you can afford headers... thats kind of an ignorant statement no? Im in the middle of my 1st gen LSx build, and while i make decent money, im a single guy and can "afford" to build it, theres different levels of "affording" parts. If i bought every USA made part and mid to high level LSX swap part/performance/best quality blah blah blah part (1st gen specific) i'd be looking at $30 grand or MORE, hell i could buy a restored 1st gen for that. Having options from overseas/import part suppliers IS a good thing, if your on an automotive forum (in general), then your a hobbyist and most likely can handle your own in a garage so buying a knock off that needs some work but will save you $500, isnt it worth your 2 hours of time to polish it up alittle?? I'm tired of this USA made crap, yes most of the parts are better quality and need less fine tuning, but in this day in age, instead of arguing about where its made and how much it costs, how bought we just buy what we can afford for similar products so that we can all just enjoy the most basic reason we're here? TO DRIVE THE DAMN CAR and ENJOY IT. In the end, at a certain point time, maybe 10 years from now, as an example, the SSW headers for these cars might be perfected by every company, and available for $250 (again this is an example), does it really matter then?? or does it matter that you could then A) readily buy them from anyone, B) most people could afford them in a timely manner and more importantly C) Start driving and enjoyin what that specific part has done for their cars driveability and performance??

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Everyone is different. As long as you can look at yourself and know you did the right thing, I don't see a problem with it. Obviously "the right thing" is different for all of us. For me, I will support those who innovate.

STREETDEMON

you might want to take a look at your posts again on the first page. seems to me you had a problem with people doing what is right for them earlier, even using the word shame, and now your tune has changed a bit.

you're right, everyone is different, and people buy things based on their descretion and needs, not yours.

a few posts above you talk about buying taiwan made products from mcmaster, do you think they are the ones who innovated those products, or is it more likely someone else blazed that trail infront of them and they now make a similar product?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I am a proud American. Perhaps sometimes that shows through. The fact is I am ashamed of other peoples decisions. That doesn't mean the decision isn't right for them. Just because it is right for them, doesn't mean I agree with it or won't be ashamed of it.

To be clear, I will always choose the American made option given the product I need is available and the price is in MY budget. Example, I am happy to pay 5x as much for American made hardware. I would not frequently buy American hardware if it was 20x as expensive. What I said is I would much rather purchase Taiwanese hardware than Chinese hardware.

It can be a bit of a challenge for Hardware companies to innovate considering how ubiquitous it is. There are exceptions for specialized applications that do not apply to our cars. If you know who invented the 12 point reduced head screw, let me know. For a slightly more specific example, I try to use Aeroquip or Parker hoses and fittings whenever possible as they were there in the early days and are both approved for use in commercial aircraft and meet the necessary mil specs.

Of course other factors also play into decisions as well. Customer service is huge. I have typically found it easier to get in contact with knowledgeable employees of local companies.

Anyway, I have said my piece, and I don't think there is much else to say. If anyone wants to continue feel free to PM. I think it is quite obvious most people are set in their ways, myself included, and additional discussion isn't going to change anything.

Have a nice day,
John

cosmick

Couldn't someone do mild instead of stainless? I'd rather have mild if it would save me a couple hundred.

STREETDEMON

brp muscle rods/hedman husler

they make an ls swap header for 3rd gens. i run a set of mid-tubes on my swap. great headers.

cosmick

Hedman 45720 mid-length for $360 / pr is the closest I can find, hopefully not imported at that price. At least they're 1.75" and fit the budget far better than Hawks.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

cheapezt way to get exhaust on a ls swap 3rd gen in stock ls manifolds adapted to stock y pipe or diy headers kit from speedwaymotors.com
they got a pretty decent diy ls headers kit

STREETDEMON

they are not imported. mine are the coated mids.

very high quality.

blakecharles

I agree... Plus there are faaar too many 4thgen guys running $400 ebay headers without issues. I could care less if they are mild steel or not. I only make 65k/yr and live in CA and YES I do have to deal with smog......

I could afford to buy the hawks but would rather not. The 1 7/8" prims w/ 3" collectors that I want cost $1000.

With 3 kids, this might be a good middle ground for me. Hawks needs to tuck the headers a bit better, they also need someone to compete with in the market.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

back on topic:

DO THESE HEADERS FIT OK?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Fit just like the SSWs

Pass collector is a little too low and close to the frame rail

monkey-leader

Did the headers work.? I almost bought a used set. The guy sod he gained like 50+ hp. But he needed a tune (ran lean or something)..

jchaussee

I have 5 kids and little liquid cash. I'll be getting those.