adm030

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-92-LS1-...7798b1&vxp=mtr

Found these lastnight my friend already ordered some. 1 3/4 with 3" collectors looks like Chinese knockoff of hawks . Finally something affordable.

adm030

i emailed this company almost 2 months ago to see if they would build them and they did i was amazed when i found them, most companies do their on thing, they hardly ever venture out for the customer.

Jaysz28

iTrader: (30)

wow, I'd snag a set at that price to see how they compared to the SSW headers I have now

STREETDEMON

haha, looks i may be doing my true dual exhaust sooner than i thought.....

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

Hopefully the passenger side frame rail clearance is not an issue with these like hawks. I am jealous I bought hawks already, as I would much rather had taken a chance on these for the price. 880 dollars for headers that don't fit, and hawks was 100 percent useless in helping dealing with this. So now I have to pay to get my one header cut and re-welded to fit. Like stepping up and buying PRICEY headers is no bid deal......

Podium

iTrader: (2)

What motor mounts are you using? I used Spohn with mine and had no problems. I had some of the first hawks headers though (before the name plate was on) maybe thats a difference? I sold the headers to a friends who used the brp plates that use the sbc mounts and he had to hack my old headers up so they would fit.

Cant wait to see how these fit. I may go this route even though I really want 1 7/8 headers. Maybe they can make those too. If these headers fit well they will dominate the market for third gens.

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

I am using spohn swap mounts and poly inserts in stock clamshells. Using a spohn crossmember. I have a hawks double hump on the way(only because nobody else makes one). Hopefully the new crossmember will somehow make a difference, before I have them cut

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Glad to see the mfr is getting into the market with these. Took long enough

Id chop and reweld the mounts before modifying the headers. Correct or not

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

The interference issue is the trans would have to drop at the rear quite a bit, or pulled toward the drivers side. Will post pics tonight in a new thread

85331camaro

wow thats a smokin deal!!!!

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Smoking deal.
What a shame 800$ that dont fit for there intended purpose.
For that price the headers should come with the appropriate mounts

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's a crappy looking flange to tube weld. Surprised they did a closeup of that particular one. I'd be concerned about alignment to the port.

The listing ended. Did one of you buy them? Don't seem to have any more listed in the eBay store.

3GZJerry

iTrader: (2)

if anyone bought these I like to hear the outcome and fitment before I start my swap and buying mounts...

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I doubt they are 1-3/4 from the looks of that horrible port transition

adm030

i have them saved on my ebay account , for that price it's nothing to pull the dremel out and open up the tubes, that's what i'd do. You can't expect them to be perfect their half the price of hawks and thats what i asked them to do. Make an affordable header.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

No but if the whole primary is only 1.5 like almost anythuign china made then you have a problem don't you? No dremel wielder is going to fix that

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

More import knock offs that are not what thay claim too be.

STREETDEMON

they are actually a local ks company about 45 minutes away from me....pretty sure they aren't shipping over chinese knockoffs....

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Are they claiming to be building them?

I'd be real suprised if these are being built in KS.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

bullshiat, they are china headers. A lot of people claim made in US, they are not they are made in China, like the XS power stuff for corvettes also claimed to be made in the US. It's VERY apparant by the welding echniques and the collector design because all these china specials have the same features, welded over welds to show rainbow colored welds, short collector merges etc.

I can show you sets of headers that all have these features, they are mercedes benz headers, porsche headers, corvette C5, C3 headers, 2nd gen 3rd gen f body headers.

At least 1 "high dollar" Mercedes Benz tuner selling these kinds of headers for 1600$ admits they are made in china (after receiving a couple of sets that were bent/not fitting junk), if you know what they look like you can spot them at first glance! ALL these headers have the same characteristics.

Rough cut flanges, some times with the holes in the wrong position. Pipes welded inside and out to the flanges, often gray oxidized welds on the in and outside and a shiny bead ran over the top to make it look like a high quality weldign hob
Polished pipes with clear markings from where the bending die ended.
Short collectors, often tough finish of pipe merges especially on merging primaries (not all headers havge this design obviously)

All china headers are blatant copies of other copmpanies headers, like the known oines that look like flowtechs and the full lengths w/ Y pipe on there occasionally that look like stinless works? Or the C5 corvette headers that are dynatech copies (full system is a direct copy), or the C3 corvette sidemount headers, copies of hookers...and on and on. How do I know? I have had all these in my hadsn, every one of them... They are all copies but with a twist, the telltale marks I posted above.

How many people think you can have a set of american made all stainless longtube header for 250 bucks? Honestly? This is made in China, no doubt about it. It's the same as all the obx and whatever china stuff on ebay.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Ive used the ebay 4th gen and ls truck headers.
Werent perfect out of the box. But work. Y pipes also.
I would give em a chance.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

And then there's all the made in the USA wheel companies who all make the same freakin wheels and sell em for $3k+

http://www.importgenius.com/importers/cor-llc

Same thing happens with all kinds of parts. Hell half of Edelbrock's stuff is probably chinese too.

Some companies are honest about it. Others have it drop shipped to their US location and do some trivial amount of assembly work and call it made in the USA because they can.

I remember back in the early 2000s I was starting to notice a lot of counterfeit Gibson Les Paul guitars on ebay. All very obvious fakes. Shapes were wrong. Hardware was wrong. Labels were wrong. Etc etc. But over the years they've gotten SO good at copying American companies. And then you have companies who are catching onto this, and just saying screw it, I cant compete, I have to import.

SCAT has all their cranks made overseas, final machining done in the US. It's just what it takes to compete these days.

America is the leading exporter of industrial equipment in the world. A huge chunk of that is going to China, where they use the same equipment we used to use to make goods that we used to make for pennies on the dollar. They have built a huge portion of their economy on simply reverse engineering and copying American products. It's just what they do.

So every time I see some cheap part that's way too cheap, and they say "made here in the US!" I ALWAYS take it with a grain of salt. Hotpart.com, I'm looking at you! They may be decent parts but unless I see pictures of them actually fabricating these things with posters with English on it around, I dont believe for a minute it's completely a USA product. And that may be harsh, but that's the reality we all have to live in these days, where "made in the USA" isnt always what it seems.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Hurray for supporting the Chinese copy cat industry. You guys are so proud to have found a "deal" and to stick it to Hawks. I am ashamed for you.

John

Podium

iTrader: (2)

LOL.

STREETDEMON

haha, last time i checked this country is about free enterprise and capitalism.....

so you mean to tell me EVERY part you buy is American made and you pay the highest price possible for that part?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

It is. What this country is not about is stealing someone elses ideas. You guys going out of your way to encourage this behavior and suggest new copy products to these companies is despicable. Hopefully Hawks can find some solace in the fact that there are some people here that are willing to reward a company for innovating.

I do not support copy cat companies regardless of where they are located, this includes many of the US based suspension companies.

I buy as much American made hardware as possible. There are of course many products that you cannot get here or in other countries with respectable business practices.

The fact that you don't understand what is wrong with this behavior tells me you also don't understand the long term consequences.

What do you do for a living? Has your industry not been affected by this?

Does this not bother you?

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...-Senate-Report

John

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Completely agree, I buy american made if at all possible and I'm not even an american!

The EU recently put ruled import penalties on chinese made aluminum radiators because the chinese state was subsidizing companies to sell these under cost price, flooding the market and forcing out the competition.... that's how they roll! Unfair competition by practice of cheaply made parts blatantly copied from a company who has invested in research, made by slave labouring children and underpaid workers whilst destroying the environment.....

LivinLarge

Has anyone tried the Hedman Husler swap longtubes? Seem like a good deal.

STREETDEMON

i work for an ag manufacturer and this happens in my industry all of the time. john deere is famous for copying designs. i know this because i sold green iron.

i'm not condoning the copying of products. i've actually put in a call to this company to find out more about their products, no one here actually knows for sure if they are building them or outsourcing them. so its a little unfair to jump the gun without a little research first.

a little competition in the market helps consumers from being overcharged.

i've done business with hawks and have had a good experiences with them, i'm just not interested in their headers based on return for my investment.

shame on you for coming in to this thread to tell people how terrible they are for purchasing a product that fits their budget.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

This is not about shaming someone for buying them. Its about pointing out how irresponsible it is to encourage these companies.

We are not talking about a single mother trying to buy the cheapest brake pads possible, so she can get to her job to put food on the table. I get that.

If you can afford a toy car and can afford an LS engine and trans swap, you can afford headers. We are talking about disposable income here.

Look at how proud adm030 is about getting these copied. You say you don't condone copying, then you must disagree with this then.

There is NOTHING wrong with good competition. Do you think this company bought a thirdgen, installed an LS, then designed the headers themselves? That would be good competition.

Please do contact the company, it will be interesting to see how they respond. Or since you are so close, how about a trip down there to see the manufacturing facility. If you take and share pictures, I'd even be happy to throw in $5 for gas.

John

Podium

iTrader: (2)

This thread is about a cheaper option than SW (Hawks). This isnt about copying who or made where. Everything gets copied.

Have you ever done a ls swap John? If you have, you know that the Hawks headers will probably be the most expensive part in the build, unless the swap includes a t56.

I understand where you are coming from but it is nice to see a cheaper option. How many years have we been asking for a cheaper option? It sucks a copy finally stepped up but no one else would. I wish pacesetter would have stepped up because they make a good header option for a 4th gen. Hawks has a cheaper option but they really are not that cheap and they have a weak 1 5/8 primary. I would run a 1 5/8 primary on a sbc lol.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Fair enough. I get fired up on this issue. I know how much effort it takes to build a business. It stinks big time when someone comes along to jack something you have worked years to build. It is no different than someone stealing your project car you have worked on for years and spent 10's of thousands of dollars on. Actually its worse, unless you relied on that car to put food on the table.

I have said my piece and am done. My point is only to add perspective on the copying issue. It is up to the customer to decided what is important to them. I think its quite clear I would buy the Hawks headers.

pearl_iroc

I totally agree. Competition is a good thing.

I bought those 1 5/8 headers from Hawks. I was totally disappointed, looks like mine are starting to rust from about 3k kms of use (car has seen no rain and scared what going to happen if I do wash the engine lol), and the passenger side header collector hangs way way lower than the drivers side. (Which apparently is a common problem with the 1 5/8 header a they are also knock offs NOT made by SSW, wish I knew this before I bought them lol)

I wish Id had these ebay ones as a option before, because even if I had the same problems with the Ebay ones as I did with Hawks, I wouldn't have mind, because they literally cost less than half the price, and have bigger primaries.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I Question if these are truely 1 3/4", the ports are typically a lesser quality of material, cheaper does come at a cost, regardless of the other "issues".

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

It was Bruce himself that originally contracted overseas then stuck it to members on here for the long tube group purchase a few years back

Look on the hawks website now. The 1 5/8 headers look familiar?

The port pictured is the worst Ive seen on the knockoffs. Heres how all the sets Ive seen looked

scooter

iTrader: (11)

This right here was all I needed to know about the quality of these headers, garbage. And I immediately thought the same, that these cheap knock offs were going to ruin a product made by Americans in America

adm030

I asked them to build a 13/4 swap header for thirdgens i did not ask them to copy hawks , i do not know if they are a copy i said they look like one but all ls swap headers should look the same because thats what they are if they didnt look or have a similar design they wouldn't work . Yes im glad someone stepped up and made an affordable set of headers and didn't price gouge like the other companies you support.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I would be ashamed if these are American made.
If you are ok with the quality, then it's ok, I guess.

SiCkRs

iTrader: (6)

has anyone bought these? seems interesting if they are atleast better then stock manifolds

3GZJerry

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't buy these because the quality stinks. But if they were good quality I would in a heart beat. I take pride in buying American made products but I won't pay more for a product just because it was made here. Hawks charges the amount hey do because there is no other competition. They take advantage of this and charge you the most money possible no matter if you are american or not. If this was a quality product and they where losing customers then they would be forced to lower their prices.
I love the statement when someone stated that this country is not about stealing someone else's ideas. Every product in this country is basically a fabrication of someone else's and stealing ideas happens every day here. If not we would only have one manufacture of TV's, Cars, Phones, etc. etc...
I'm not saying don't buy american I just saying along as there is a quality product made and is cheaper I won't buy something for more just because its american, that just foolish for me to do. As a business they are out to get me and my money and as a consumer I'm out to get the best quality and best deal.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Have you checked what stainless works headers cost? About the same as the Hawks labeled ones and it's not a rediculous price for us made headers, check what kooks etc costs.

scooter

iTrader: (11)

No, stainless works charges that much because that is how much they cost. The thirdgen headers are the same or less than any of the other headers they make. Shouldn't talk unless you know what you're talking about

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

High quality headers with good stainless cost a lot of money. Have no doubt that the SSW headers are a very fine product! I think the price is in line compared to other examples on the market. I don't like paying that much, but it's just the way it is.

The low cost headers above are pretty cheap - cheap materials and less skillful workmanship. Not all stainless is equal and those cheap headers will rust. You can buy those headers and use them as long as you adjust your expectations accordingly. SSW/Hawk's is T-bone steak dinner. Those other headers are Chef Boyardee. There's a place for both. Choose wisely.

Now after all the thankless whining and complaining I see here, how about we take a moment to thank Hawk's for bringing the LS swap header to you in the first place?

25th327RS

iTrader: (2)

I would never buy headers that look to be built as poorly as the cheap ones in question, but I won't thank hawks for selling me a 840 dollar set I headers that do not fit properly. Things happen with aftermarket parts, I understand, but smidgen of customer concern on hawks behalf would have gone miles in my personal view and attitude towards hawks as a company.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Any updates on those who bought em?

Slush92RS

iTrader: (6)

Pocket, are those port pictures you have side by side on the Hawks headers or the knockoffs???

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Left is hawks cheapo brand he sent in the GP a few years back
Right is a $200 set of 2010 camaro long tubes I was attempting to fit into a 3rd gen

Point was to compare port quality of the imports. Compared to my SSW headers (not pictured), the TIG work is roughly equal

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with the import header quality. I seriously doubt the nasty port in the OPs link is whats to be expected of these headers in all cases

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

if you carefully examine the offshore crap you will most liklely find dull oxidized tig wels with a bea of a higher chromium filler on top of that to give that high quality rainbow colors look...don't be foole, all the welds udnerneath are gray, check the inside also. these things are welde without backing gas...guaranteed. Therre's a lot of these chinese junk headers being sold by top brand companies, I can name 1 top dollar Mercedes/AMG tuner (not AMG obviously) that sells similar chinese headers for 1200$ that will not fit the intended car and needs a lot of cutting and tweaking and all the sets I got were different froma fitting standpoint (2 sets had interference w/ steering shaft) and all had some degree of distortion to the flange.. (as much as 6mm), same with these LS headers., Have a set of kooks, excellent fitment. Reworked a set of 4th gen LS1 cheapos on an 82 vette, they were OK but the flanges were not cut correctly, bolt holes were off.

If you do NOT have welding./fabbing skills I would not buy these and run the risk of having to fork out a big wad of cash to a muffler shop.

KingsHustleLA

Either way Hawks is way over priced, i'd say buy the Chinese knock offs and Hawk's can go screw themselves. Selling $800 3rd gen LS swap headers that don't even fit all 3rd gens doesn't sound like real American quality to me. I'd take my chances with those ebay headers any day whether they're made in China or the US. As long as they get the job done and leave a little extra money in my pocket to go put some gas and buy tacos haha

KingsHustleLA

Too bad Dyno Don doesn't make LS swap long tubes, I would sure as hell pay $800 for those lol