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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
I've been wanting to do this thread for a very long time. Been lurking in the shadows of this forum for a few years and want to give back. That search button does wonders! I finally got my wallet out on bail so now is the time to do my dream build. Up front I am making a promise to everyone that this isn't going to be one of those threads that dies when it gets hard or I lose interest. This car will be completed and driven often. Okay so now a little background on the car and I. I have been working on cars since I was a kid with my dad. My parents owned a limousine company and didnt have time to keep up with maintenance on their own. So my dad would show me how to do something and then I would do it. I became his personal mechanic. Once I turned 16 we moved and my dad became a flight instructor. I worked in the hanger he stored his plane where I learned aircraft mechanics. At 18 I began working for Ford as an alignment and suspension tech. I was there for 1.5 years until I got married to my high school sweetheart and began working at a custom shop. I learned air-ride, lift kits, drop kits, engine swaps, trans swaps, rear end builds, brake upgrades, light body work, fabrication, and engine building. In between Ford and the truck place I went to UBI Portland learning titanium welding and frame design. Now I'm working in the oilfield. I build actuators and valves for the big names in the industry. Okay enough of that (sorry it's so long) I'm 21 part way through college married with a 5 month old daughter. So on to the car.
I got the car in 2010 at 16 as my first car. I had worked all summer and winter not knowing what I wanted to buy. Until one day I saw someone driving a Camaro and drive to a parking lot and start doing donuts. I knew that's what I wanted. So I found a 1989 Camaro RS that had a 5.7 tpi swapped in from a 305 throttle body (if I remember correctly.) The car was rust free and ran well with a cam, rockers and headers. Originally it was silver and the previous owner had it painted blue with silver stripes. Also he did the fuel pump access which I found out later which was annoying. Anyways so now 5 years later I am planning an lq4, t56 and 9in rear end. With that I'm doing 91-92 gfx, ss hood, 5in spoiler, ss brembos, forgestar wheels tubular suspension, black interior, 4th gen firebird seats, Dakota dash, sound system, paint etc. I started the party early and pulled the motor and trans, also the interior is out and the car is sanded down. I have 3 interior wire harness's I pulled to straighten out previous owners rat nest and swap to power mirrors. Also I will be seam welding the chassis, por15 and shaving the engine bay. I've already bought and aquired parts for my build. Here are some pics to entertain you and see the progress so far. Once again sorry it's so long but just wanted you guys to have all the info. This thread will be updated everytime I make progress or get new parts. I will try to make that as often as possible.
Thank you guys! The car is very clean underneath. Just the normal cave in next to the fender in the pinch weld which will be straightened out, any rust will be cut out and patched and the pinch weld/ seam will be stitched to the subframe connectors. So update on the parts I've aquired so far and ill make a list of parts I need and if anyone has them pm me with a price. Also selling everything I'm not gonna use for the swap.
Pulled my gas tank Saturday from a 2000 v6 Camaro plus it had a brand new fuel pump and sending unit. Ill be using a different pump of course but well cross that bridge when we get there. Best part cost me $70 with all the plastic lines and electrical connectors.
Got my ss brembos front and rear about a month ago which have already been stripped, sand blasted, and powdercoated. Just gotta put them back together.
Just finished the rebuild on a ws6 box.
I have an lt1 t56 that I was originally gonna use with a 383 HSR but I sold the HSR and now were at the lq4 fork. So the t56 will be going up to Jason at Texas drivetrain performance to get converted and a stage three viper kit installed. If anyone needs an lt1 bell housing plus the slave spacer or has an ls bellhousing let me know.
Got my 4th gen trans am seats last Wednesday they are grey leather front and rear and I love them. I feel like I stole them really. I paid $350 for front and rear seats. Lumbar support and no tears. More than likely ill be pulling the leather off and having them redone to match the paint when it's done.
Already have my founders strut mounts and gonna order the on car adjustable rear set up so I can fine tune everything at the track. Ill be using the 3pc poly joints kinda like a roto joint. I've had the best experience with them over poly in the offroad world.
Just about to start on my sway bars. They'll be sandblasted and powdercoated different colors according to size and stiffness. Right now I have the 36/24 and base soft ride set from my rs. Always forget that size but ill be holding onto all of them to tune with different springs to find what I and the car like best. Ill be scowering the junkyards for 34/23 and any other sizes I don't have.
If anyone needs a metal gas tank let me know. It's got the tre/ walboro 255lph pump in which is brand new and works great. Tre performance had a warranty and is much quieter with the walboro so ill be using them again with the lq4.
Don't mind the neon. My brother put it on a joke when I was out of town so when I found it I did to his car. It's no longer there.
Since I have an RS my car didnt come with the extra bracing and wonder bar that irocs have so I picked up on eBay for $10 and welded it up over the original welds and sandblasted and powdercoated it. Cheap and effective.
Brembos all done just waiting on the seals to show up then the high temp stickers. Ill be getting the kit from Scott at the big brake upgrade for the rear to retain the parking brake and build my fronts with 1LE hubs and 3/8in plate. Reason for the 1LE instead of stock 10.5 offset is cause I forgot to mention I'm planning to run 10.5-11in wheels all around with same offset so I can rotate the tires and have have the wide stance. This will push the wheels out and allow me to use a smaller spacer if i even have to. Fenders will be modified to fit and ill use 4th gen width rear and UMI A-arms and UMI Road race k-member. Still have lots of math before I get that far and more money to have the suspension sitting where I want for the correct calculations. Right now wheels are looking like Forgestar F14s because the barrel is so thin and they can built to order. I'd like to run 18s for a cheaper tire and I think that's a good compromise in ride quality and size. Yes I know it will be a tight fit with the rear 14.5 rotors. That's it for now. Any input is appreciated.
Okay here's the progress so far. A few pics before I start shaving the engine bay. Ill be moving into a new house over the weekend so it will be on hold but at least it will be in the garage 24/7 so more comfortable work environment.
Seems like time for an update. Ordered my k member and subframe connectors during the UMI Labor Day sale. I had been waiting a while for that to happen. Now the car is in the garage and the work has begun. Gas tank and lines are pulled and the car under carriage is being stripped down and a few rust spots and pinch weld are being corrected. Then ill weld in the subframe connectors and por-15/ undercoat everything. Then fuel lines will start being run. A question for you guys that do audio stuff. Since I'm rewiring the interior and upgrading what is needed what is a good size for speaker wire. Ill post this question in the audio section but just thought I'd throw it out. Ill post some pics when all the new parts show up in about a week.
Here are a few pics as promised of the UMI Road Race K member. The packaging was crazy good and came with stickers and clear instructions and all new hardware that even appeared OE. Shouldered bolts etc. the welds all looked really clean, no pourosity or uncercut. and I didn't find any spatter. Powdercoat was perfect. Definitely glad I got it. Saved a few months to do it and waited for the labor day sale but if you're in the market this is the one to get. The extra bracing makes it look a lot beefier than the standard unit. Next up is the a-arms to match on their black friday. This week the subframe connectors should be here and ill be putting those in pretty quick.
I will take some more when I get some of the subframe connectors.
Got the SFC in and more pics of both. They came well packaged like the k member and easy instructions to follow. Also got some weights of a few items I had I will make a full list in another thread of weights of stock components vs aftermarket.
Umi SFC 35lb
RR k member + spring perches 30lb
Founder strut plates 6lb each
Brembo 9lb front
Brembo 6lb rear
It's been a while since I updated. Progress has been slow since I'm waiting on a new welder to show up so I can start on the engine bay and fix a few rust spots. Meanwhile I've been working on getting the pedals sorted out. I'm debating on changing to an LS master / booster or just converting to hydro boost. Both save room and don't cost that much do to. Making new lines isn't a problem. Just want something that's efficient to match the brembos and save space. Any input is appreciated but Ill keep researching. Getting ready to pull the dash so I can put in the new (used) chassis harness to clean things up while converting to power mirrors. Still looking for an lq4. Trying to decide if I want to just get a pullout and sell everything I don't need or buy a block and go from there. Also still need the following:
Ls t56 bellhousing (have an lt1 if anyone needs it)
91-92 front chin spoiler
5in wing
SS Hood
Ford 9in (4th gen width)
Ive done alot of the things that your doing and you seem to be doing them right. Might want to rethink the POR15... Ive never gotten that stuff to stick permanently... its a strong a$$ finish but if it starts to keep its just going to keep peeling in sheets. If your going through the trouble get is sprayed with a decent undercoating or truck bed liner, I also feel that a textured underside looks better and more factory to a shiny one.
Any reason your stuck on the LQ4? The 6.0L is a great motor and very sought after. which will make it hard to locate and you'll end up paying more for it. Why not go for a 5.3L? Doesnt take alot to make power, they last forever and they are basically everywhere. Plus you can pick one up from $250-750 depending on mileage and they usually come with the ECM and harness.
A few months back I decided I wanted something smaller, more reliable and cheap to run compared to my 521 BBF in my 87 firebird. Couldn't find any LQ4s close by for a good price range. Ended up getting a 5.3LS from a member here near by with ECM and harness for $750. A few hundred in swap parts and its in and Im going to supercharge it. Should make just as much as a built 6.0 if not slightly more for less cash. And if you blow it they are everywhere lol.
I also did the hydroboost swap from a guy who custom makes them on ebay (has a shop too) and was $400 for a bolt in setup using the stock MC. While bleeding it can be a pain (i only put on 20miles before I had to store the car before winter after doing the swap) the amount of room it free's up is amazing.
Looks good! Going to be a nice build.
Ive done alot of the things that your doing and you seem to be doing them right. Might want to rethink the POR15... Ive never gotten that stuff to stick permanently... its a strong a$$ finish but if it starts to keep its just going to keep peeling in sheets. If your going through the trouble get is sprayed with a decent undercoating or truck bed liner, I also feel that a textured underside looks better and more factory to a shiny one.
Any reason your stuck on the LQ4? The 6.0L is a great motor and very sought after. which will make it hard to locate and you'll end up paying more for it. Why not go for a 5.3L? Doesnt take alot to make power, they last forever and they are basically everywhere. Plus you can pick one up from $250-750 depending on mileage and they usually come with the ECM and harness.
I also did the hydroboost swap from a guy who custom makes them on ebay (has a shop too) and was $400 for a bolt in setup using the stock MC. While bleeding it can be a pain (i only put on 20miles before I had to store the car before winter after doing the swap) the amount of room it free's up is amazing.
Just food for thought!
Thank you! I have about 10 cans of undercoating I think I'll use instead since its free and I know it works well the only reason I don't like it is when you scratch or scuff it, it makes a brown mark... I also like a textured bottom.
I hadn't really thought too hard about the 5.3 mainly because I was originally gonna use the lq4 with a ctsv supercharger and that needs the l92/ ls3 heads which are great and cheap enough to make power even it i don't use the super charger I could throw on the new MSD Atomic Airforce 103mm intake and hedmen hustler swap headers and be just as well off. I was planning on stroking it as well possibly later on and just get a running motor to drive around for now. But if I can get a 5.3 and put it in for cheaper and build a 6.0 on the side that might end up being better. Just wanting to spray with a 200 shot. Turbos aren't really my thing. Too much money and take up too much room. I might try to find that hydroboost guy. That's not a bad price for a bolt in setup. By the time you get all the lines and the booster it's probably the same or more.
You can supercharge any LS motor for less than 3K brand new. I ordered (being built) a supercharger from torqstorm. Its brand new built in the good ol USA and comes with a lifetime warranty. Comes with everything to swap it and allows use of all the stock accessories. Prices for car style LS1 start at $2800, i got a hybrid LS1 kit with parts for the 5.3 silverado kit that will allow me to run my truck accessories with the cheaper LS car supercharger which seems to mount the supercharger lower and will clear the stock hood. The superchargers are good for like 700hp and have proven 5.3 combos with just a cam swap making 570hp to the wheels.
The hydroboost is pretty cheap, $400 for the bolt on kit, I got steel Hydro boost AN fittings for like $30, then got $30 in -6an pushlock fittings and hose for the return. THen may $50 in steel hydraulic fittings and hydraulic braided hose. Stuff is cheaper than power steering hose from aeroquip and is used for hydraulic lines for like batco's and large construction equipment with 2500psi rating and is just as easy to assemble as braided AN hose and its cheap. No issues with my setup so I prob have $500 total in my setup.
I'm on torqstorm's website, everything I see for the LS motor is for a blow through carb set up, definitely will not clear the hood... Does your set up use your stock intake mainfold? It looks like the truck one does, so is it just a truck set up with the F body spaced pulleys?
THe LS conversion kit is the one your describing... but you need to look at the GTO kit. they are all roughly the same just depends on how you clock the compressor and what intake charge pipe your looking at.
They all mostly have the same brackets. the truck accessories are 3/4" further out than car motors as well as the balancer/crank pulley. The Truck kits just use 3/4" spacers and a different hub than the car versions. Then you have the intake tube which is different. So I basically got a mix of the Conversion LS (carb style) bracket/compressor etc, then got the GTO intake tube and the the silverado HUB and all the spacers for the truck kit. Only mods to the truck motor that I have is I swapped to a LS1 car style waterpump, got 3/4" waterpump spacers and relocated the idler pulley so the belt gets routed differently to clear the car waterpump outlet. I got the HV water pump for $50, spacers for $38 and the idler relocation for $18. Now with the truck hub and the spacers bringing it all out to the truck accessory spacing it will bolt right on and all will align no issues. Im going with the smallest pulley for 10-12psi on a stock motor
Last edited by customblackbird; 11-04-2015 at 03:32 PM.
That's why I was gonna use the CTSV supercharger with the lq4. Those are on eBay for $800 ready to go just need the fuel rail, l92/ls3 heads, pullys and you're done. That's a lot cheaper then a whole kit. But the MSD intake is $1000 but ready to spray or take boost and can be ported even larger. Pocket has a thread on it "I shouldn't be left unsupervised." The very last pages has the conversion he did.
The LSA SC your looking into, has it had the bearings redone? A lot of the ebay CTSV warranty ones came in for noise troubles and were swapped out, and these are what most guys are selling as is for cheap. Thought it worth the mention is all.
Well I apologize it’s been a long time. Y’all know how life goes. After moving 2x and purchasing a house, hurricane Harvey, truck motor going out, moving up the ladder at work, having our second baby, wife starting school, and I finally about to start a new job that will free up money for my car hobbies I’ve finally gotten back to my third gen. It’s been a long time coming. Since I’ve been away I’ve started stripping the old seam sealer out and prepping the interior. I’ve got 3 body harnesses to go through and find the best sections to use to make one good “new” harness. This will take up a good portion of space and time so I’ll finish up prepping the interior. That will include Por-15 and some type of seam sealant. I am on the lookout for a good clean hood and a 91-92 chin spoiler and sideskirts with hardware.
Just scored a 6.0 truck harness from a buddy today! Also pulled the UMI k member out of storage. Anyone know how interchangeable the harness’ are from F body accessories to 5.3 to 6.0?
And so it begins. Spent about an hour and a half pulling off all the tape, and wire loom to get down to the bare bones. Later this week I’ll start depinning the ECU connectors and separating everything out. I will say no matter how tempting it might be to just use a razor blade and cut through the black tape it’s not worth nicking a wire and having to track down shorts when it’s on the car. I did everything by hand and a small pair of scissors when needed.
Made some brackets for the front set up for the Brembos. Still need to open the spindle holes to their final size and then Powdercoat them. I’m about to order 1LE rotors to turn down to hubs and then I’ll start on the rear set up when I get my hands on a 4th gen rear end. I used the brackets from Luke Skaffs website and burned them out on a plasma table out of 3/8” plate.
That will include Por-15 and some type of seam sealant.
I'll be the second one to warn you against POR15. It's a durable finish but mine started to peel off like a latex paint on my previous Camaro. I did the interior and underside of this car in Rustoleum (say it isn't so!). Mix it 4 parts Rustoleum to one part Acetone to 1/4 part hardener that you can buy. You"ll be surprised at it's sprayability, smoothness and hardness when fully dry. The other great thing about Rustoleum (well besides the price) is that it is super easy to reapply should you need to repair the finish. I'm not a fan of spray on truck bed liner coating on the underbody because it's impossible to clean and it really darkens underneath the car, it's like you need twice as much light to work under a car that has black undercoating. I don't have a lift so that's also important to me.
I've had great success with POR-15. It is essential to clean and use metal prep beforehand (starter kit is a good value). https://www.por15.com/Stop-Rust-Kit
Sometimes, I finish with an enamel while it's still tacky and let dry for several days.
I used the High Temp Aluminum paint on my Turn One box and it looks great.
I also used seam sealer, and used it on the SFC where they were close to the floor pan (prevent gunk, deposits, etc.).
Thanks for both your input. I might try a bit of
both suggestions. I just know that I’d rather do it right the first time and even though I don’t have a lot of rust because it was a Texas car it still has some that I’d rather correct now than bandaid it. I don’t have a big enough compressor to properly spray at the moment (pancake compressor). Hopefully that will change soon. I’ve seen everyone’s views on por-15 and it really seems like it’s hit or miss. I will have to try a starter kit or something on a couple spots and see how it does. Having it peel doesn’t sound fun. I probably won’t paint over it either. Just leave it as is on the interior side and then put the carpet over when it’s dry.
Finished up 90% of the harness tear down. I still have the trans harness I left mostly intact because I couldn’t figure out how to separate the blue connector as it was slightly different than the other black j1 and gray j2. Since I didn’t remove this harness and I don’t have an 08+ to look at I’m going to have to figure out which sensors are which and what I can completely eliminate. For those that have done a gen 4 ls swap did you run new grounds or keep that one large ground harness intact?
Picked up an alternator and power steering pump bracket from a local guy that was parting out a 4th gen. Still need a pump and reservoir. If anyone is selling one let me know. Starting to come along.
Getting closer to finishing the front end. Just need konis and rotors. 😎
Looks good. I just picked up a set of UMI front LCAs in black about 2 weeks ago. They have made many changes to them over the years. I have a set of the original UMI tubulars on the car now and they have been used for YEARS with no issues.
Looks good. I just picked up a set of UMI front LCAs in black about 2 weeks ago. They have made many changes to them over the years. I have a set of the original UMI tubulars on the car now and they have been used for YEARS with no issues.
Ive noticed that they do revise them every few years. These ones I just got use rod ends for the sway bar connection instead of the bushing endlinks. I also ordered the Delrin bushings so We’ll see how they do. They already seem to have better wheel clearance. I might change out the ball joint to a 1/2” taller one. We’ll see how the car looks when the motor gets put in.
Ive noticed that they do revise them every few years. These ones I just got use rod ends for the sway bar connection instead of the bushing endlinks. I also ordered the Delrin bushings so We’ll see how they do. They already seem to have better wheel clearance. I might change out the ball joint to a 1/2” taller one. We’ll see how the car looks when the motor gets put in.
Yea they do and I really like the rod end sway bar end link on the new version (mine came with them as well). I always fight with the end links when I take the front end apart to do springs etc. Delrin are nice but stiff (they are hard like aluminum) I just got the poly again as they work well. I don't have any wheel clearance issues with the original UMI arms... mine don't even have steering stops on the arms and I didn't want to weld any on and ruin the powder coat.
The 1/2" taller ball joint I assume is bc you plan to lower the car alot? You didn't want to try air rides suspension kit for our cars? I personally like the look of a low car till you drive one and then everything becomes and obstacle and scrape on everything. I lower it a smidge with home made weight jacks and then stuff in a taller 18" rim and some 40 series fronts and 45 series DRs in the back. So the car looks more lowered than it is but I can drive and not worry about everything and speed bumps.
I don’t plan on lowering it a lot. I have driven a lot of
customers lowered cars and trucks in the past and always hated the way the rode even when I did the install. I just want the car to sit where it did with the 25yr old sagging factory springs. It rode great and was every smooth, and incredibly planted when I went up to a 275-45-17. Now I plan to run 295-40-18 or something similar front and rear. Once the car is together I’ll see where it sits with new springs and I’ll either cut a half coil and likely use weight jacks. But I went with these arms because of the 10” wheels I wanted to run.
So over the last year I finally picked up some Konis during their June sale and haven’t even go to install them yet. I got rotors from a 5th gen and took the rotors from a 1le and chopped them up and turned them down to the same ID that the 5th gen rotor has. I still don’t have a big enough wheel to fit over the calipers but I did the spindle mods and made the brackets to fit the caliper.
Unfortunately while I was getting ready to seam seal the interior I found rust under the heater core at the fire wall. I cut that out only to find more rust on the inner fender as well. Here I made templates out of cardboard to then make panel patches to weld in. It was right after all this I bought a new house and moved into it in may of 2020. Now we are in November and I got a new job in New Orleans Louisiana and we have to sell our house and move again. This will be the 4th move with an unfinished car but I am hoping that I can drop it off to get painted in the next few weeks. I just got all my body parts including the elusive 91-92 chin spoiler. That only took 3 years to find a clean one.
Are the 5th gens 14” rotors? My 13” BAERs will lock up my 275 summer tires no problem so I can’t imagine needing more for street driving unless your autoXing the car.
I just did Koni yellow fronts when I got them
on clearance from summit last spring and they made a huge difference over some pretty new KYB AGXs.
that’s crazy moving that much but I guess u need to
go we’re the work is.
I haven’t even got to put my konis on but from the years of research I’m sure they will make a huge difference. Bilsteins were always our go to when I used to build cars and trucks. The road so smooth for a daily driver.
And I went with 5th gen because of the price point. So far I’m only in this $600 because I got such a good deal on the calipers and made everything else myself. The 14” was just a benefit. But I am building this car for autocross and road courses as well as a weekend car.
07-19-2015, 01:29 PM
