This has been brewing one way or another for about 8 years. I'll cautiously say that I might be back in the game.
Fresh shortblock now at 357 CID. Full of new parts other than the original GM forged crank.
Jones Cams hydraulic roller plus their lifters.
Another transmission after the last one, despite being one of the best 700's I've been behind (albeit built around a Corvette case which doesn't fit a 3rd gen) ate itself up in less than 5000 miles. Another 4L60 built from scratch with the best parts from the old trans carried over.
A new spec converter from Edge.
So far, there's about 400 miles on the new combination and tuning aside (of which there'll be plenty) I dare say it's the strongest running car I've put together. (The 502 CID 5 speed TA is another matter altogether).

Plenty of details to list. Might even consider a build thread. Or turn this into one.
Anyway, just wanted to let the community know that I'm up off the mat and back swinging. 8 years!
Racing however, will wait until next year.

 

For anyone interested some of the details I'll list below.

357: 4.040” x 3.48”
Wiseco forged 5 cc piston. 1.5, 1.5, 3mm ring pack
Eagle SIR rods 5.7”
GM forged crank
Balanced
.008” deck
750 Barry Grant VS
RPM Air Gap
RHS Pro Torker Vortec heads. 65.4 cc. Pocket ported (~255 CFM @ .500")
Jones Cam: 280°/284° @ .006", 232°/236° @.050", 108° LSA, 104° ICL, 64° ABDC IVC
.360"/.360" Lobe Lift. .576"/.576" Valve Lift
Crower 1.6 ratio .050” backset rocker
Mahle 5776 Head Gasket, Marine, 4.100 in. Bore, 0.032 in.
Headers: 1 5/8” x mid length
10.24 SCR / 8.23 DCR

The carb and intake followed from the ill fated 355. That engine lost a link bar and consequently destroyed all parts that rotated. More or less.
Still have the old school distributor. That, I'm thinking will be replaced with a fully programmable Progression Ignition model.
The block is now 40 over. Gone now are the heavy Elgin rods and have been replaced with Eagle SIR forgings (not my 1st choice but that's how it played out).
Rebalanced with a ton of weight taken out. This may partly explain it's new quick to RPM nature.
Mike Jones stated that the cam should peak at 6200 and carry well past peak. Exactly as I had asked.
Transmission is a K case early 90's 4L60 (from a 4 x 4). Filled with all the good Sonnax stuff and new GM parts that survived the last debacle. It shifts wonderfully at all RPMs and throttle positions.
Edge converter spec'd their 9.5" Street version. Early tests are showing that a 6200 RPM shift recovers no lower than 5k. That in itself will be a track day game changer.

Replaced the u-joints (1350). The D44 is as it was.

I was hopeful that the carb tune and timing curve would carry over as I'd spent a lot of time getting that right. Such is not the case and there's a lot of work to be done (Hence my thoughts on a programmable distributor).

The thing keeping me from the track this season is the need for new slicks. I traded some of my retirement investing to get this heap back on the road and I need a pause to recover. But next year is fine by me.

Look who's back...

 

 

Glad to see you're having fun with the car again!

 

Yes sir. Just got back for a summer evening birthday rip.
If this thing stays together it should be my best performing iteration of this chassis yet.
Some bugs to work out as I said but everything about it is what I had planned for.

Thanks Qwik. (You said if I did a build thread you'd be there. Here we are.)

 

Glad to hear you got some miles on it. I been looking forward to hearing the developments and seeing the updates.

 

It'll be a while before any track time but in the meantime I may post up on my tuning efforts.
Something I may need to address is the old and ancient software I'm using (or was using) for data logging.

 

.

 

sounds like a solid build. I have no complaints with my edge 9.5 street converter, your old thread about converter indexing most likely saved its life aha

 

I'm hopeful. Every so often, after shuffling the deck enough, you're dealt a good hand.
I'll agree on the converter. As I mentioned, shift recovery appears excellent. I haven't been able to truly test the stall speed. That'll take new slicks and a dragstrip. But so far so good. I just have to sort out the TCC. What I asked for from the rebuilder in terms of wiring and what I got are two different things. I'll probably have to drop the pan and $120 worth of AMSOIL ATF to get to the bottom of it. In the meantime I'm careful not to put too much heat into it. I just sort of putt around with about 10% slip at cruise RPMs. There have been a few WOT blasts to the top 3rd though...A guy just has to know.
It's nice to get some positive feedback like your indexing. Sometimes these forums are worth their weight in gold!

 

i struggled with the tcc lock up as well. i did the tci vacuum switch kit in mine but found it rapidly locking and unlocking at whatever set vacuum point it was set to. all the recommended vacuum delay valves to solve this issue have long since been discontinued. junkyard parts are getting scarce for older gm around me. ended up finding a new old stock spark delay valve that seems to have solved my issue although i haven’t driven the car much to really test it in different scenarios. i’m curious to what your desired tcc wiring entails.

 

Here's a quick sketch of the wiring schematic that I'd previously been using.



VAC: Factory style vacuum switch. I'd also incorporated an aftermarket adjustable version but the OEM worked best. Accelerate and the vacuum drops which opens the switch and drops out the clutch. A downshift to 3rd could avoided.
BRK: OEM brake switch which opens on brake apply.
TOG: Manual toggle (factory fog light switch repurposed) to disable the clutch when desired.
TEMP: Temperature switch in the valve body
4th: 4th gear applied switch.
Factory connector with original wire colours and pinouts.
The circuit is completed to ground via the transmission case.

The rebuild version is a 2-wire circuit. Or is supposed to be.
+12v to pin A, through the solenoid and it remains internal to the transmission. The other side of the solenoid goes to the temp switch which is in series with the 4th gear switch. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. There's a provision for an external -12v via the B terminal but connecting that doesn't work either.
So, there could be several factors in play here. My job is to figure it out. FTR: I'm an industrial automatation electrican so this stuff is easy peasy. Except for the dropping the pan part when the rest of my troubleshooting doesn't pay off. Kind of ticks me off really.

 

Some end of the year musings while the car is a frozen block of ice and steel.

The TCC got sorted out. As it turns out, after dropping the pan, the wiring was exactly what I had originally. All the probing and hacking up of my nice, tidy harness was all for nothing. So, now I've a wiring mess to deal with. Some of the stuff I gleaned from QwkTrips thread on the various "new age" connectors I'll be adopting going forward. Despite my trades background, I see very little of this aside from my hobby. At some point I'll follow that up with a new electrical distribution block. I've got relays and fuses here, there and everywhere and they need to be consolidated. My fuse block looks like a porcupine as it has so many pico connectors and terminals stabbed into it. That too is a mess.

The plan going forward will be multi-faceted. I have to address the carburetor and ignition timing. It would appear that this new spec and now healthy engine has a different appetite. I expect it to be fairly quick work aside from the reworking the old school distributor so as to dial in a new timing curve. That part is tedious.
And seeing as the car has been more or less sitting for so long, a full rounds of maintenance is on deck. Possibly new steering gear as the new stuff isn't so new anymore. Wheel bearings and brakes. General things.

Racing is the real deal though. I find it almost unbelievable that I haven't been to track since 2015. Happy tenth anniversary I guess. But I like to think I'm ready for some personal bests. At least I hope so. I'd really like to rework the entire exhaust system. What I've got is pretty much a performance killer but having said that, I'll establish a baseline first and have a reasonable comparison to what it was before. This is something I talked about many times. Maybe even in this thread!

Anyway, none of this will begin anytime soon. Winter in these parts carries on into April and historically the track has opened about mid-month. Not sure though. But before that, there'll be some sorting to do.




Rad Torque Raceway. Just outside of Edmonton, Alberta. Live web cam feed.

Wishing everyone the best in the New Year.
Stay tuned.

 

Glad you discovered that about the converter lockup! 10 years is a long time, but it’s not long before you are back on the starting line looking at the green light !

 

It's almost incomprehensible for me to think about having been away that long. But my story is documented. It was one thing after another and not all car related. (stupid pandemic).
But, you're right. Now it's just a countdown. Plus pre-race preparations. Lots of preparations!

After a few test and tunes to sort out the bugs and establish a baseline, it'll be all about refinement. A proper cold air induction is top of list. I'd love to do back to back tests on that. Then it's the exhaust. At the very least some cutouts and collector extensions. I've got some data on my first experiment with this on the single 3" before the muffler. Uncapped just before the muffler (at the 90° turn) netted both gains in MPH and lower ETs in the 1/8th. Not a lot but defiantly repeatable. Sounds GREAT too!! Ideally though it'll be a larger single of duals of some sort. But nothing would beat a properly tuned open collector.

Then maybe try and make my car as good looking as yours Mr Z. But in a beat up older man's way.
It's snowing again...

 

Snowchains out of the question? Lol sounds like you're on your way to getting it completely dialed in!

 

Ha! Truth be told I've had a couple of winter daily drivers. First was an 84 Z28. Almost 5 years of everyday duty. Another was an 87 Coupe I bought for daughter while she went to college. I taught her some car control doing donuts in a snow covered parking lot. She never cracked up after more than two years. They're surprisingly good winter machines. Maybe it's their relatively good handling to begin with.

Anyway, yeah dialed in is the operative phrase there. If I still had my garage I'd get a head start. But I'm between shops so I have to deal with working outside.

 

Pulled the cover off yesterday. Did the requisite checks.
Sizeable transmission fluid leak but now cured. Speedo gear housing seal was wallowed out. It's handy having spares.
Pesky oil drip from a couple of the valve cover centre bolts. Still messing with that.
Fired right up without any coaxing. Even though it's chokeless, holding it at about 1800 RPM for 30 seconds and it will settle in to a 900 RPM idle.
Runs great. Lots to tune yet as the previous engines carb and ignition timing settings need to be revisited. Although I will say WOT AFR's are about 12.5:1 so that's looking good I guess.
Need to revisit the hydraulic lash now that all of the new bits have bedded in. Everything in the valve train is new except the rockers. But even those have new trunnions and bearings so for all intents and purposes, they're new too.
Converter is a massive step up from the old off the shelf TCI. A custom 9.5" Edge 3800 really gets to the powerband in a hurry. I hope that provides a step function improvement in my 60' times. That and the new drag radials. But racing will probably be a couple of months out.
Sounds the old Holley Blue pump is about to give up so I either have to incorporate the in-line 45 PSI pump I've had for decades and get a suitable regulator for it or just buy another Blue. I'm of the mind to go with the former.
More to follow...





357, 10.4:1,
Jones cam. 280/284, 108 LSA, 104 ICL .
Single 3" Flowmaster "American Thunder!" exhaust. (About all it's good for is idling and cruising. It absolutely crushes WOT output.)

 

Congratulations. And I am glad that you are happy with your camshaft selection.
Why didn't you move the brake lines to the other side of the steering shaft to avoid boiling the brake fluid?

And now to trigger your OCD....

 

That's a good question. As it is, there's room for a little air isolation but it's one of the things that's logged into the "refinement" file. That proximity of lines to exhaust becomes even more acute when you get to what's a little downstream from the header collector. Brake line, 2 x fuel lines, power to rear mounted fuel pump and the speedo cable are all bundled within a fingers width of the y-pipe!



This location has been like that for the better part of 15 years. When I didn't have a return style regulator, days at the track would see a major vapour lock and the car would nose over at half track, then recover. That doesn't do much for your ET. The moving fuel helped that (via a return regulator) but it's something, like the topside you commented on, that needs addressing. I've been searching for appropriate heat shield for that line set. I have industrial versions that would do the job very well but it's a sleeve type which means disconnecting everything to allow the sleeve to be slid on. There are easier options. DEI makes some some handy exhaust pipe coverings that are laced on so I may go that route. That said, nothing is inexpensive anymore so I want to be frugal with my shopping. (I suppose though I could always slice the sleeve lengthwise and then stainless steel cable tie it into position....thinking out loud here).

As for the camshaft selection, I suspect it, the convertor and the new slicks will transform my old heap. Here's hoping.

By the way, your sealing washer suggestion has solved most of the bolt leaks. There's one that's still a problem child, which uncoincidentally, is at the rear of the valve cover. That would be where the oil piles up under acceleration. The oil filler cap, which is just a pressed in bung, which is also at the rear, has a little weeping too. Those appear to be last remaining drip makers. I shall overcome. Now I'm thinking of a vacuum pump.

 

Maybe something like this?

 

Something like that, yes.
I'm thinking that the tidiest solution, as well as the most convenient, would be to wrap the exhaust pipe in a suitable covering. And it wouldn't really have to wrap the entire circumference. A half wrap on the side that closest to the line set would be enough.
So something like you posted but it would only need to 6 to 8" wide (at most) and about a foot long. Like I said, hat stuff is expensive and if I can save a little, I can spend the savings elsewhere!
Getting it locally too is another factor. The online stuff has gotten weird lately with more than one of my Amazon orders having been delayed or disappeared. I can imagine Summit has further surcharges on products shipped to Canada as well.
I'm going to look deeper into what we have on hand in an industrial application. I've wrapped many components in this stuff or similar.



IIRC, I might have a sleeve of it that would fit around around a 2-1/2" diameter pipe. Hmm. (Thinking out loud again...)

 

Just a randomly placed pushrod. It's not nested into it's slot. Notice the gap from the pushrod to the guide plate. It all played nice in the end. But a keen eye nonetheless.

I had some concern for this however. Rocker alignment despite having adjustable guide plates.






Now that I've put on a few hundred miles it's time to pull the valve covers and look to see what's been going on.

 

A couple of things have been holding me back from really getting on with developing the new platform (my laziness notwithstanding...).
One has been a pesky oil leak. I'd done a search for the best method for sealing up the hole in a centre bolt valve covers. I was turned on to a simple hardware store sealing which for all intents and purposes did a bang up job. Thanks @NoEmissions84TA . There was one hole that continued to weep though. And there was considerable amount of oil getting to the ground. Not to mention widely dispersed on the underside.
Today was a deeper dive while I was relashing the valves.
Source identified.






I'm hopeful some Marine JB Weld and some gouging with a pencil grinder will seal it up.

 

Oh, that sucks, but you have found your weep.

 

I'll single myself out and say it's quite likely due to overtightening.

 

Well, I suppose "I might be back" is relative.
Working through a couple of pesky oil leaks (see above) and one that became evident using some UV dye in the oil was the distributor base gasket. Short story is that the tried and true MSD distributor no longer fit properly due to the stack up of parts including a new oil pump, pump drive shaft, cam and distributor gear. The base was now fully 1/10th above the manifold. I cobbled together a "spacer" gasket comprised a a couple of standard FelPro gaskets and a Moroso shim. Clamping was difficult and the leak, albeit less, persisted.
Easy fix. I'll buy a new distributor (I was kind of due for one anyway) with a slip collar.
Enter a Pertronix D305710.

https://pertronixbrands.com/products...vacuum-advance

Nice piece. Billet. Magnetic pickup. Made in the USA. Looks to be well built. Unfortunately looks can be deceiving. Looked good but poorly assembled. There was no stock at Summit and my guess it was built on the fly at Pertronix as they showed no inventory either. Sadly, I think that Pertronix' quality assurance is a little lacking. It came to me with a reverse rotation advance mechanism (think marine application).
Setting the timing to my initial of 16° and applying RPM saw no increase in advance despite having an advance curve that should start at 1000 RPM (+/-). Getting to 2500 saw nothing, then like flipping a switch, it retarded better than 20° to a position after TDC.
Took some ciphering on my part to figure out what the hell was going on. Eventually, it was determined conclusively that it was indeed a main shaft that was installed which was built to go counter clockwise. The weights are also reversed from a traditional distributors orientation. Due to the shape of the centre plate that's fixed to the main shaft (and anchors one end of advance springs) it wasn't a simple matter of just flipping over the weights.



Pertronix. Note the orientation of the weights.


Conventional rotation. The weights are the reverse of the image above.
The plate fixed to the main shaft is also profiled such that the weights can't be flipped over.

So, now I wait.
I may try and get by with a shimmed gasket under the old MSD and try to minimize the leak. Maybe I'll get lucky and cure it altogether.
Ultimately, I want to go digital as there's going to be a lot of experimentation and testing to dial in a proper curve. I had thought about a Progression Ignition programmable distributor but the thought of relying on a small company with proprietary technology leaves me a little cold. If I can't count on a reputable and well established company like Pertronix, who's to say Progression will be around next year?

Racing has to wait yet again.

 

Only you could get a "backwards" distributor.

How big is the distributor hole in the intake manifold?
I ask because I have seen that the aftermarket manifolds have much larger holes than stock.
So much so that you can fabricate a flanged bushing out of aluminum to fit in that hole and much tighter to the distributor shaft.
Use Permatex to seal it in place.

 

It's pretty tight from what I recall of stabbing in the distributor (a hundred or so times in the last two weeks). Interesting thought just the same.
There are .094" gaskets out there. That's just about spot on. Tracking them down seems easier said than done though.

https://www.cometic.com/products/C5531-094

Think availability and shipping.

 

Looking at those pics again, it seems to me that just the weights are installed wrong.
The center piece matches both pictures. Flip the weights. Or am I not seeing something?



One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

 

You could shorten the intermediate shaft if you don't want to play with gaskets.
I hope that you didn't really crank down on the distributor clamp because that would drive the gear into the oil pump cover.

 

The shape of the centre plate has a contour that inhibits the weights from being flipped over. I tired it. It won't work. The difference in contour is subtle. That said, I'm not taking a distributor, sold to me as an appropriate part and cutting it up to fit.

 

Look at how the short arm on the weight meets the centre plate. One approaches the centre plate from one side. The weights flipped over will approach the centre plate from the other side. That will make the
"breaker plate" move in opposite directions relative to each other.

(EDIT: Now I see your musical reference to the difference. Yes. It's apparent.

 

The center plate matches in orientation. Nothing to cut up here - leave this piece alone.
The weights do not. Flip the outer weights.

I know that you tried flipping them.
What prevents them from working?

 

The shape of the centre section (which is what's attached to the shaft itself).



The asymmetrical shape of the centre plate prevents the weights from sitting properly when flipped over. If the plate were "unpeened" from the main shaft and flipped over (obviously the pins have to be repositioned as well) then the weights would follow. Undoubtedly, this is how the the two counter-rotating assemblies are built at the factory. The difference in profile is subtle but enough to prevent a simple fix.
That distributor is on it's way back to Summit.
In the meantime, I've pressed the old MSD back into service with another "composite" gasket and am getting some miles on it. One thing I'll need to do (yet again) is pull the distributor and check the wear pattern on the hardened gear. Seeing as it sits up nearly an eighth higher than stock I'm concerned the contact between the two gears isn't ideal. Yesterday was a 100 mile round trip principally to get a handle on fuel economy.

 

Speaking of fuel economy, while 20.2 MPG (Imperial or 17 US MPG) is nothing to rave about, considering that it's wasn't all straight ahead highway, I'm reasonably happy with that. More like 10 miles at 60 MPH. Stop. Turn. Back to 60. Repeat 4 or 5 times. Nothing spirited. RPMs cruise steady at 2300 or so. AFR's slightly richer than I like although the cooler evening air on the return trip as opposed to the hot afternoon on the way there made a difference of a full point or more.
Seeing high 14's/low 15's going and 15-16 coming back. It was very happy on the way home.
I really need a cold air system.

 

An update:
After 10 years, I finally made the track again.
And while the air was terrible at over 3900' DA, I've got a new personal best once a correction factor is applied.
12..88 @ 106. Although slow, that corrects to 12.22 @ 111 MPH.
The last personal best 12.6 @ 107 which corrected to 12.4 @ 109.
Details are here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...t-yet-but.html

 

I am just seeing this update!

Dude, thats great to hear you got back to the track. I know you have been itching for it for many years. I read the whole writeup on the other page! There are some gains to be made, but now you have the car with a complete shakedown day and that means a lot. Very good numbers for maiden voyage with that combination. Keep it coming!

 

Funny you should jump in right now. I'm checking over your latest post, have asked a question and then referred you to this thread.
Excellent.