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I've got a VERY nice RS vert that I hate tinkering with. It's low mile, and runs 100%. I have to fix things occasionally, but for the most part, I keep it in the garage and put about 300 miles a year on it.
But I've always wanted a car that I built, customized, and made my own. I have no intention of selling the RS, but I've wanted a toy to run the living **** out of.
That said, I've been looking for a straight body with half-decent paint at a decent price, for about a year. I would have preferred a Camaro, but this Formula popped up about 10 miles from my house.
I don't believe anything that previous owners say. With that in mind, the title says that the owners bought it in 2008 with 164,XXX miles. It currently has about 100 more than that. It was intended to be a first car for the guys son, but they never got it running, so it sat and they gave up on it. It still turns over, and the oil is a nice milky color, so I'm thinking that the head gasket blew at some point.
Regardless, I bought it for the body. No interest in TPI, so that will be yanked, along with the engine. Has a 3.45 rear, N10 dual cats, and of course, manual tranny. Paint is decent, maybe 5 out of 10. Only clear coat peeling is on the driver front quarter. No rust anywhere - undercarriage, fenders, wheel wells.
It's a car that I would not have given a second look to 5 years ago. Decent bodies are drying up FAST. I've looked at about 7 or 8 rollers over the last year, and every single one had rusted out floors.
Last edited by two-if-by-sea; 05-17-2018 at 11:50 AM.
Oh yeah, I have all 4 original wheels, plus tires in all their dry-rotted glory. I put the spare RS wheels on to roll it around.
Also, interior seats are pretty shot. I plan on doing a 4th gen seat swap.
Steering column is, unfortunately, destroyed in the Formula.
So I picked up a parts car, another '89 base bird. Rusted out body, but lots of good parts. The hatch motor had been replaced, so that was swapped into the Formula, along with the radio and all speakers (the formula had no speakers, and all wires cut, for some reason).
I bought a headlight rebuild kit from TDS. I figure with two sets of lights between the two cars, plus the kit, I can come up with a working set. I'm a hack, and it's a long-shot, but I think I can pull it off.
Here's some pics of the parts bird. Body is trashed, but everything else is in surprisingly good shape. Dig the Ozzy seat cover! You can't make this stuff up. Guy sold it because it just "stopped on the interstate one night" and his mechanic could not figure it out. It ran in February 2017, because I have the oil change receipt and the sticker is still on the windshield.
And check out that 4th pic. A bird has made a nest, complete with eggs, in the huge hole in the rear quarter. Gotta love it!
Last edited by two-if-by-sea; 04-28-2017 at 07:37 PM.
So the plan is to get the motor running in the blue one, and swap it into the Formula
I know I know why swap a L03 into a car that was originally way better than that. The short answer is that the engine is free. The long answer is that I like TBI. I'm interested in all of these L31 swaps, so that will be the ultimate plan. I'm an old guy, but I've never done an engine swap before. So I figure this is like swap 101. Swap the engine and harness. Should be plug and play, right?
But first I gotta get the engine running in the blue hooptie.
My thoughts were either in-tank pump, or something with ignition/spark.
I started with the pump. The blue car has a much cleaner tank that the Formula. I yanked the tank off the blue one, replaced the pump and filter with new Bosch TPI units, and re-installed. I read on here where people claim to do this in 45 minutes. I'm calling BS. This is the second one I have done over the years, and it was probably a 5 hour affair. But anyway, once installed, there was no difference. But There was fuel being shot out of the injectors. I don't know if that was the case before, I didn't really care.
So next I did the plug/wire/cap/rotor replace. Wires were replacement, but plugs appeared to be factory. Who knows what has been replaced over the 28 years since the car was new. It's all new now, but still no difference.
So I start studying TGO. Coil and ignition control module. Vroom! Starts right up. I think it was the ICM. It had a good deal of corrosion on it, but I don't know, nor do I really care.
I took it for a ride to see if the tranny shifted. Seemed fine, but car was swerving all over the road. I didn't re-install the panhard bar, and the bar that goes above it, because I plan on yanking the tank and placing it in the Formula. But wow, I couldn't go over about 20 mph without the car getting all crazy.
A few pics...
Last edited by two-if-by-sea; 04-28-2017 at 07:11 PM.
Yanked the AC compressor and smog pump, and replaced with idlers. I still need a ac delete box, but I'm in no rush to find that. Yanked the AIR system too, and plugged the holes.
I noticed that the fan doesn't kick on at 220 or so, but it will come on when the AC is turned on. Looked around, and found the broken connection on the passenger side head. Plastic connector was probably brittle, and I likely hit it when I replaced the plugs. I was surprised Advance Auto had it in stock. So that's getting installed this weekend.
After that, I'll probably start ripping the old LB9 out of the Formula.
I spent last weekend removing things like starter, pulleys, radiator, AC, driveshaft, torque arm, even the intake. Today I pulled my first engine, and it went much easier than expected. Today, using the Harbor Freight 2 ton crane and the load leveler, I was able to push the car from the carport (50 feet away) into the garage, remove the engine, and push the car back into the carport.
After reading other threads, I was concerned that the 2 ton crane would not be long enough, and I would need to remove the front bumper cover. That was not an issue. I'm stunned at how easy this was.
Next step is to remove the TPI harness on the black Formula, and start getting the other (blue) car ready for the same treatment. Remove the L03 and insert into this car.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. I did bet both of these cars "running". The TBI car ran fine, the TPI car ran like a$$. I mainly wanted to get the TPI car running, so I could prove the T5 worked (the entire assembly is for sale, by the way, and I have more videos of car running...).
You're putting a toilet bowl injected setup in a TPI car? You're killing me man. KILLING. I can think of a million ways to motorvate a thirdgen without TPI, but TBI is never one of them.
Have you heard the good word of the Holley 4bbl? All you have to do is let the 4150 into your heart... And I don't even like carbs. But TBI? Man. That ain't right.
Looks lie your making a lot of progress over there Tom...Looking good so far
Thanks Steve. It's been a hoot. I've never done anything like this, and it's gone better than expected.
Originally Posted by Drew
You're putting a toilet bowl injected setup in a TPI car? You're killing me man. KILLING. I can think of a million ways to motorvate a thirdgen without TPI, but TBI is never one of them.
Have you heard the good word of the Holley 4bbl? All you have to do is let the 4150 into your heart... And I don't even like carbs. But TBI? Man. That ain't right.
The 260K mile L03 that I'm swapping in, is not the final solution. More than anything, it's a test to see if I can actually get the job done on my own. I already admitted that I'm a hack. But I'm getting better, in my old age.
One of the positives when going from TPI to TBI, I suppose, is that the battery is on the other side. So of course the drivers tray (and surrounding area) is just toasted, but the passenger side is near perfect. Here are a few pics of the driver side, where the battery once was. I plan on removing as much of the corroded metal as possible. I have one of the rivet drill bits that Drew recommends.
Once I get the tray out, do I need to replace it? I have a parts car that has a near perfect driver side tray-area. Also the braces under the tray are gone. Thoughts?
I just don't understand taking a car from one of the best drivetrains offered (and fairly uncommon) to one of the worst ?
The black formula would have been the one to restore and keep.
However, it is your world so have fun and good luck.
Huh? I am keeping the black car?
And this isn't a restore. This is a thread about buying two cars for well under $1500 combined, and trying to make one.
As has been previously mentioned, L03 is not the ultimate goal here.
Huh? I am keeping the black car?
And this isn't a restore. This is a thread about buying two cars for well under $1500 combined, and trying to make one.
As has been previously mentioned, L03 is not the ultimate goal here.
I get what you are doing, just don't get why. For some reason certain cars tug at my heart strings to be brought back to stock condition and the black one does just that! I dunno why.
Im glad to see it will still be driven! Enjoy the build !
Or... I could go the "fencing/chicken wire" route. LOL!
As ghetto as it is, it appears to have worked pretty well. Car was supposedly a daily driver till it died.
I'll probably go ahead and do it the right way. With the engine out, it's so much easier to work in the engine bay.
It's been forever since I updated this thread. This Formula will probably never really be complete, but it's come a long way over the last 5 years
New (used) enine/tranny from a parts car (mystery 350 TBI, with an auto)
LS1 front brakes, rear PBR brakes retained with stock 3:45 9 bolt posi
Seats from 98 Firebird, leather wrap steering wheel (tiny!) from a Fiero GT
Aftermarket 4thGen TA wing, repaint of wing/decklid/rear bumper (this was the only repaint I did)
New 3" intermediate pipe exhaust and Magnaflow stainless muffler, with Thirdgen factory reproduction tailpipes
rebuilt pop-up lights
strip/repaint factory rims
New windshield
Driver side door pins and lower hinge
BMR lowering springs, moog ball joint, refurbished factory A-Arms with new bushings
paint buffing and touch up (compound/polish with a small amount of wet sanding in a few places)
Phoenix Graphics kit (have not installed the rear bumper emblem yet)
Autozone pin stripes to cover up the ghost stripes burned into the paint
I was actually surprised how well the paint came out. Its a solid 10 footer, but there are some small dents/spots here and there. I plan on dropping in a better 350; I'll likely go the L31 route with an LT1 cam and call it good.
I'm not crazy about the wing. I purchased it locally, via Craigslist, and I don't know anything about it. The price was right, but from the rear, it gives the car a Jetsons feel. I don't think it flows well with the lines of the car.
Car will probably be used as a sunny-day cruiser. Just a toy. I usually put 300-500 miles a year on my convertible, and I suspect this car will see similar use.
It's been a fun project. I've learned a lot, and still have a lot to learn. Next year will be 5 years with the car. I'm going to finally wax it tomorrow, and take it on a long ride.
But I can't help but feel for that mother bird. You know she came home from work that night four years ago, and was like, WTF?! She probably went out that night to the local feeder and ate and drank until she fell off of the perch. On her way to the ground, she tought she taw a puddy tat, but it was too late... like Quint sliding into the shark's mouth, his screams muffled by his mouthful of blood when the shark bit into his gut. At least, she won't have been wandering the trees all these years.
When I saw the paint on the Formula, I figured it would clean up pretty well. The taillights and filler panel polished up well too.
The 4thgen Firebird seats are a good choice. A Fiero leather steering wheel is supposed to be exactly the same wheel as the 85+ TA leather steering wheel, except for the horn button, so that was a nice find.
I've liked pictures of 3rdgens with 4thgen spoilers, but that one looks different, taller. And the brake light looks different. Is that an actual 4thgen spoiler, or is it the 4thgen "style" spoiler Hawk's used to sell for 3rdgens? Oh, good catch, me. I just re-read "aftermarket," so it is the one from Hawk's. Not many images of that one, so it's nice to finally see good pictures of it. The only thing I dislike about the 4thgen spoilers are the two inner supports; those would have to go.
The red calipers and larger brakes are a nice upgrade. Nice job on the wheels too. The car doesn't really look lowered, though, at least, not very much.
I never realized reproduction tailpipes existed, but those really are cut like the factory pipes. Much better looking than the turndowns that some people use.
And since you've rebuilt the headlight motors, now is a good time to invest in a set of the new Holley 5x7 LED headlights. Then pop the tops and...
Enjoy the ride! I think it would be more enjoyable to be shifting the gears, though.
The 4thgen Firebird seats are a good choice. A Fiero leather steering wheel is supposed to be exactly the same wheel as the 85+ TA leather steering wheel, except for the horn button, so that was a nice find.
I've liked pictures of 3rdgens with 4thgen spoilers, but that one looks different, taller. And the brake light looks different. Is that an actual 4thgen spoiler, or is it the 4thgen "style" spoiler Hawk's used to sell for 3rdgens? Oh, good catch, me. I just re-read "aftermarket," so it is the one from Hawk's. Not many images of that one, so it's nice to finally see good pictures of it. The only thing I dislike about the 4thgen spoilers are the two inner supports; those would have to go.
Thanks for your comments.
The wing is certainly...different. I'm not sure if it is Hawks, or some other manufacture. It's plastic, and not glass. I had assumed it was painted fiberglass, and didn't think much about it. But the body shop informed me otherwise. It was from a white car, and they apparently just never painted it. Original owner had just run it the way that they had purchased it, unfinished. Not my first choice, but I can live with it
The Fiero wheel is fantastic. It's a slightly smalled diameter, and a stubbier hub. So it allows for more room in the driver seat. I'm 6'5 250# so I can use all the space I can find. Icing on the cake is that the standard bird horm button is a direct fit. The wheel looks like it belongs there
Here's the spoiler. Hawk's has it listed again. It was listed on its website for years, but it wasn't listed throughout much of 2021, except on its ebay site part of the year, then it disappeared. They must've gotten some requests for it, because it's listed on the home website again. And it's showing a new picture. For years it was just the two pics of the black and red TA. The new pic is of a Fire Fighter's 86 TA in PA. Your series of pictures is better, with more views. Says fiberglass. I've had some interest in it for a possible future replacement, if/when that day comes, which is why I've tried to keep up on its availability. 82-92 Firebird Fourth Gen Style Fiberglass Spoiler - Hawks Third Generation (hawksmotorsports.com)
Interesting that it's apparently plastic. I have a low-rise spoiler off of a 1988 Camaro that I took from a junkyard car about 12 years ago, a one-year-only spoiler, and it's plastic. I'd have thought fiberglass, but it's plastic. I got it for another project, but that's long gone, so it sits on a pile of junk that's going to the local landfill. I've kept its brake light, though. It's thin enough, like the one in your spoiler, to try to integrate into an aftermarket spoiler and avoid fitment issues people have had with factory 3rd brake lights. Plus, they just look better integrated into the spoilers, rather than tacked onto the decklids like afterthoughts. That's one of the features I like about the spoiler you have.
That sure does look an awful lot like the one I have. I think it looks better on a TransAm with gfx, than on my Formula.
On the ends of the "spears" (wing tips?), there is supposed to be some sort of hardware, to affix them to the hatchback. Of course, mine didn't include that. I ended up fabbing up something. Without the clamps, the spear on one side sat noticeably higher than the other side.
Here is a pic, before it was painted. You can see it a little more clear, with the raw white. The fit is actually very nice. There is a small valley, that goes downward, where the decklid ends and the glass begins
Not sure who makes it, but that's definitely the one Hawk's sells. You can see that it's designed to fit 3rdgens, and it appears to fit well, as you said. Fitment looks even better than the correct fiberglass aero wing replacement, which seems to vary from production run to production run. And a lot of people have problems getting to fit correctly, because of the brake light on the deck. So I like how this one gets the brake light up off of the deck. The integrated brake light just looks better, too.
Thanks for the pictures. When the time comes, if it looks like it will be a PITA to integrate a brake light into the 3rdgen fiberglass aero wing, then I'll probably get this one.
When the time comes, if it looks like it will be a PITA to integrate a brake light into the 3rdgen fiberglass aero wing, then I'll probably get this one.
Any reason why you wouldn't consider a high mount light instead? Just like the looks of a spoiler-integrated light better? Not criticizing, just genuinely curious.
I don't care for the stuck-on-like-an-afterthought appearance of 3rd brake lights, nothing more.
I just saw an old thread where one of these 4thgn-style-for-3rdgen spoilers was for sale. Guy said he got it from Hawk's in the late 90s. So these have apparently been available for over 20 years.
04-28-2017, 06:16 PM
