Drew

iTrader: (58)

Congratulations! You've made it to Page #2!

I left this post here at the top of Page 2 so I could give a quick summary and touch back on the highlights...
In the interest of brevity, I'll try not to go too deep into my personal experience with Thirdgens. Let's just say that I put a lot of effort into putting my tubby butt in the driver's seat of a few nice thirdgens. The unintended consequence of that effort, was that I ended up putting nice thirdgens on a pedestal. To me, a nice thirdgen is more than the sum of it's parts. A well preserved car, with better than average options, isn't something you daily drive through whatever harsh weather, you don't just hack things up and bolt on aftermarket parts without weighing all the pros and cons. To an extent, you don't necessarily get to ENJOY the car as much as you might, if you didn't have this instinct to be a bit over protective.

The offshoot of being a Nervous Nelly about a nice thirdgen, is that to enjoy the ownership experience, sometimes it's easier to justify modifying a lesser car, to preserve the greater car. Now in my experience, personal history, I've always taken a rough thirdgen, and ironed out the mechanical side of things, and made the interior tolerable, but body work, shiny paint, has always eluded me. Since 1995 I've owned over a dozen thirdgens, and as a general rule, the outward appearance of the rougher cars is always pretty bad. Historically, I sort the drivetrain, electronics, and interior, at which time I'm sick of looking at the peeling paint, and living with the unfinished project, so I end up giving the car away and moving on to the next project.

This time, I wanted to do things diametrically opposite of my standard M.O. This time, I was going to do the body and paint work first. My reasoning being, that once the car looks nice, I'll be more motivated to actually finish the project. Because the drivetrain and interior is pointless if the rest of the car is hideous. Why go through the interior and drivetrain, only to blow everything apart so the car can be painted? This time, things would be different. So that's priority one.

Goal #1 - Get the body and paint knocked out Before investing into the inconsequential.

Goal #2 - Build the car the way I want. If I screw it up, so what? It's just a base model that was on it's way to becoming disposable razor blades, when I found it.

Goal #3 - Put 18 years of collected parts, bulky bits consuming space in storage, to good use. Clean out the junk bin, by building them into a car.

Goal #4 - Learn a new skill set in the process.

Hopefully that's not too incoherent, and gives a little insight into why I'm building this car.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

This $#!% had to go.







Flash back to circa 2010: The Year We Made Contact! I was laying in a mud hole under a precariously supported LB9/5spd 1991 Formula salvaging a 3.42 limited slip rear while my buddy John was taking photos. Strange, I have zero photos of John working on his car or mine... Weird. As luck would have it, the limited slip rear end is still set aside, so the 3.23 peg leg rear can be removed to finish cleaning up the underside.



The control arms from the donor crossmember were degreased, treated with Ospho, then I started stripping them down to be refinished and built back up. Here you see where the bushings were beginning to be removed from their shells, and then the shells were cut and removed. Have to admit, getting these stripped to bare steel and refinished has been a LOW priority. So more on these later... Ok, so actually these control arms still aren't painted. But they are closer to being ready to paint.




They look more like this, for now. Eventually I'll get around to paint, and popping in the new Moog bushings and balljoints that are set aside...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The passenger's rear wheel well, was missing nearly all the seam sealer. Being the drive tire, it's a safe bet the dirt roads knocked the old sealer clean. Since the underside and front wheel wells had been cleaned, the rear needed to follow suit.









More surface rust. Nothing that won't clean-up.















Everything under the hood was cleaned, sanded course, sanded fine, cleaned, cleaned, cleaned again, and then I finally got around to shooting a bit of Epoxy primer. First coat went on a bit wet. I got a few runs and sags here and there, and the inevitable bugs because it's painting outdoors in July. Discovered that painting an engine bay presents interesting issues, since it's impossible to shoot the inner fenders while leaning in front around the car, the other option is standing in the open bay, which doesn't leave you much room to stand back or move around. Add in the multiple angles and tight spaces and it's not as easy to spray as I had expected.

Kansas in July is 100+ degree heat, and soaking humidity. A few photos appear hazy because the camera's lens was fogging up. Admittedly at this point, I was a bit burned out. The above pics just about bring the body work saga up to date. There are a few updates coming yet, and of course I need to go back and cover some of the side projects, I just didn't want to interrupt the body clean-up too much.

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

Simply amazing work! This is one stunning build! Not everyday you see a base Firebird get this level of attention!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Base models need love too.


The front bumper cover from The Infamous El Dirto Birdo is cracked in a few places, and I'm sure I can fix it, but... I don't really need to, because the front bumper from the green Formula donor car was in fair condition.





Since I didn't have anything better to do, nearly a decade ago, and people were too intimidated by the idea of repairing a plastic bumper, I went ahead and repaired the donor bumper. And since no one wanted to pay a fair price and come get it, it's just been floating around my garage for several years.





At a point early in this new Firebird's saga, I started sanding the flaking and cracked paint off the donor bumper.



Nearly ready to be primed with the good stuff... But hey, don't worry, the mangled bumper cover from the Mean Green Dirt Machine is safely tucked away in storage, and I'll fix it eventually, so that it too doesn't go to waste.



I've been hanging onto these for a long time, threatening to put them on my Formula... At least potentially they are currently earmarked for the Green Bird project. But I could see 17's or better being used instead. The other three wheels are still Gold, and this one was just painted very quickly to see how they'd look, so when the time comes they'll be stripped and painted...



I brought this home years ago. When I had my 86 T/A and couldn't find a good 700R4 to save my life, I looked for a T56 for nearly a year. So when this one popped up on my radar, I dropped everything and sold a kidney on the black market to tuck it away for a future project. Original plan was to slip it into my White Formula, but I've never been able to reconcile cutting a hole it that car's floor. So what do you do? Well, you just get another floor you won't feel bad about cutting.

The sleuthy folks with sharp eyes probably noticed that all the Auto trans pieces of the car have been systematically discarded, with Manual trans pieces slowly taking their places. There are actually a lot of unintentional teases of manual trans parts in the last page of photos. You could say that a lonesome T56 in the garage has turned into the project car, and it wouldn't be far from the truth.



Just in case.... The well used shifter plate will probably go in the car, but.... I picked up an NOS plate so the option is there, when the time comes.



A good used shifter **** to match the good used steering wheel. There are a few leather wrapped e-brake handles in the stash to choose from, but I'm not sure any of them is really nice enough to use as is.



This accessory setup has been tucked away for a rainy day for a LONG time. I started cleaning it up and finding the missing bits back at the very beginning on the project. All the braces are around here somewhere, they still need to be cleaned and painted. The alternator was rebuilt with new bearings back in 2016 when I rebuilt the alt in the Formula. Figured since I was doing one, I might as well do the spare on the shelf at the same time.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Ignore the flat black water pump pulley in that last pic. The photo was taken between coats of paint, after wet sanding... The smog delete bracket and pulley are NOS/GMPP pieces from Rock Auto.

Satipo forced me to throw him the photos of rebuilding the tensioner, before throwing me the whip. You'll just have to trust me that the tensioner had it's bearing removed, and a new bearing pressed back in.



The power steering pump, bolted to the serpentine setup, probably could have been used as-is. However, since it'd been sitting in my storage since roughly 2003, I figured it was worth going through.





The shaft bushing was fine. Let this be a lesson to you kiddos. Pop the clip off the back of the shaft and pull the shaft out the front of the pump. Because if you drive it out the back of the pump, the rust on the shaft will roach the bushing!

I can hear it already, you're thinking "but Drew, if the shaft is rusty won't it just murder the new bearing?"



Not if you chuck it in the drill press and polish it down with 400 grit wet & dry, 800 grit, 1500 grit, and finish it off with Mother's Aluminum Wheel Polish.



New bushing pressed in, all new seals, super-cleaned, repainted, and mostly reassembled.



Capped and boxed, until Sumday, the twelfth day, of the month of Nevermber, when it will go back on the car.



The Smog delete, and fresh AC Delco poly bushings for the 36mm front sway bar.



Sway bar bushings wouldn't be much good without brackets. Soaked in Evapo-Rust, cleaned, scrubbed, primed and painted.



The crossmember donor way back in the beginning gave up it's manual remote mirror for the cause. When I moved the **** to make sure the donor mirror worked, the plastic piece that holds the three adjustment cables and the **** split in half. I fished the broken piece out of the donor car's door, and brought all the bits home. This photo was after disassembly, cleaning the parts, and bonding the cracked plastic piece back together with super-slow epoxy. After curing fully, and function testing, the mirror assembly was packed in bubble wrap and boxed/stored until the twelfth of Nevermber.



Out of the junk bin of doom, the crustiest set of rear sway bar brackets were selected. They rode the Evapo-Rust lightning, and came out crusty. They were sentenced to be submerged until dead in Ospho. That removed much of the oxide crusties, and neutralized any remaining corrosion, but they looked like hammered dog droppings. Wet sanding and primer, followed by fresh paint... Might end up refinishing another set or two and choosing the best. For now they'll do.

Happy Thanksgiving!

scooter

iTrader: (11)

Liking the progress. My 92 is a base model too, and I probably did about 75% of what you've done. I needed to drive the car again, so I had to forgo some of the things I would like to get to that you have though. Maybe one day

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If you've been following this thread before the date of this entry, be sure to read the update in Post #51 at the top of Page #2 for a bit of insight into the What & Why I'm doing this project the way I am.

Moving on...

Back in 2010 when I was picking parts off that Green Formula in Guatemala, I ended up bringing quite a bit of that parts car home to keep the parts from going to the scrapper. A few of the highlights were the 3.42 limited slip rear, the complete TPI system with harness and ECM, the dash with it's wiring harness, the dash pad, the console, front and rear bumpers, etc. Since I'd been down the V8/TPI swap rabbit hole before when I was planning to swap my other cars, I salvaged the TPI fuel lines, fuel tank, and related bits, in the off chance that some day, someone might need them. Having these parts laying around, along with parts I'd collected to convert a previous V6 Firebird, and bits I'd salvaged from parts cars, or picked up to potentially use in other projects, just made diving into this car, that much easier to justify.

Speaking of stockpiled parts, let us take a moment of silence to remember some of the cars that made the ultimate sacrifice, so that projects like this one could go on.


The Crack-is-Whack Wagon. Your substance abusing driver, done you wrong, but your sacrifice is not forgotten.


The Green Formula Parts Bird. Know that your untimely end, spread hope to many. We will remember you when we look at the night sky.


The Teal RS. Your crossmember, steering box, driver's rear view mirror mechanism will live on, in your memory. RIP Sweet Prince.


The Boulevard Bruiser. Though your days of terrorizing the slothful have come to an end, your spirit rides eternal. We thank you.

Given enough room, and cash flow, I'd try to save them all. <comical smiley goes here - 12 image limit per reply>



I came across this Before/After side by side of the door skin under the mirror while digging for other pics. While I'd love to insert it into the timeline back where it chronologically occurred, each post is limited to 12 images, including smileys. To insert this into an earlier post would jack up 25 some odd posts.

It does show the stark difference between the mangled skin that a previous Bondo Sculpter has filled in, and the result of a few hours with body tools. Keep in mind that I never bumped steel in anger before this car. Not perfect, but better...





Just a few more of the parts salvaged from the Green Formula Parts Bird, that will go into the Project Bird.

Initially one of the draws of the Dirty Bird that made it an attractive subject, was the simple manual locks and crank windows. It's an unfortunate reality of Thirdgens that the power locks are generally sticky, and the power windows are slow. Aside from leaning all the way over the console to roll down the passenger's window with fingertips, or to unlock the door for passenger's, the manual parts are much less complicated.

However, at a certain point in life, you find yourself looking down the barrel of turning 40... You realize that creature comforts are worth the head ache. And so there I found myself, watching the usual places for the chance to acquire the mechanical parts I'd need to add power locks and windows. I had the cross-car wiring harness from the Green Formula, but on the day we (used lightly) stripped the car, the passenger's door was latched closed, and the inner/outer door handles had already been removed. Since the door couldn't be opened, the harness had to be cut. On May 6th, 2017 I'd heard about the Red 89 Formula being parted out in Wichita, from a post here in the Classifieds. I asked about a few parts, and arranged to drive the roughly two hours to salvage what I could from the car.

I was able to remove the entire Power Lock, Power Window, Power Mirror, harness from the car - Intact! The driver's door on the parts car was rough, but potentially not as bad as what I already had, so I brought it home too. The power window regulator and lock parts from the passenger's door were pilfered as well. The gray Pallex seats were in nice shape, only a little dirty. Unfortunately the lower cushion on the 89 was different from what the 91s used, so I didn't bring home the front seats. Rear seats however were in great shape. Front seat belt receivers were free of cracks, in good condition aside from the buttons. The other main draw was the heater hard-line that runs from the heater core, along the frame rail, to the radiator. On V6 cars, this pipe is different. Cars built before 1987 and without A/C don't have the T port for the coolant diverter valve. The parts car also had most of the Spare tire and jack hardware. Since this stuff is frequently missing, and I've had to piece together several sets, over the years, at absurd expense... I rescued these parts just in case a spare ends up back in the car. Of course the "1LE" 15" aluminum spare was MIA.





Being another LB9/5spd car originally, the trip gave me the chance to verify the firewall Clutch Master Cylinder doubler, that I'd been researching as part of the studying of 5spd setup.



I'd have cut this part of the firewall out and brought it back, but I'd already fabricated one...



I found a photo of the part on Ebay, blew it up until the holes were spaced the same as the Clutch Master Cylinder U-bolt, then made a template from the photo, and cut out a doubler from a chunk of used-up Mustang fender. 'Hannibal the Cannibal!'



Eventually I'll put the bend in the top, and spot weld it to the firewall to prevent flexing.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I am totally enjoying this thread, Drew!

Can't wait to see it all done.

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

If you use any more of that Ford fender on the Firebird, you may have to put a blue oval on the nose, and 5 OH badges on the fenders ������

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

What an entertaining read. Wish I would have kept better notes and took more picture over the years.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Back in about 2005, I picked up a really ugly 1984 Camaro at a tow yard auction. 2.8L with a 2bbl carb, 5spd, rust holes in the wheel wells front and back. It would start and sorta run, but the clutch slipped pretty bad. But it looked like fun, and the price was right, so...



Without going too deeply into that tangent story, it was junk, but I made it fully functional and reliable, blew up the 2.8, acquired a 3.4L, then priced out the gasket set and scrapped it. I mean really, 60* V6 gaskets cost more than I paid for the car. Anyway, most of the T5 related stuff was salvaged. But as it works out, later cars generally don't share many of the manual trans specific parts with early cars. The pedals, and steering column, among other things, are just enough different they wouldn't be correct for the 91.

A couple pieces though, might come in handy.



The Automatic trans torque arm mount won't bolt to the T5 or T56. There are at least two different torque arms, one with lips facing towards, the other away from the driveshaft. The T.A. bushing has to match the torque arm. Also most later V8 cars seem to have a torque arm with lightening cutouts, which requires the other style mount. Lucky for me, the 3.1L auto used the same torque arm as the 84.



The T56 came with the clutch hydraulics, bellhousing, Pro-5.0 shifter, and T56 shifter boot. The T5 boot from the 84 cleaned up nice. Not sure which I'll end up using, but they're both there just in case.



I could have made the 84 pedals work, but it seemed better to just get a set of later pedals. The middle set is from the 84, left set came from a 91 Z28 off Ebay, and the right set came from the classifieds here as part of the deal with the headlight assemblies.



The pedal switches are slightly different on manual transmission cars, due to the clutch pedal, and the 5spd not requiring the Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid switch used on Automatic cars. With the manual transmission, the clutch pedal uses two switches, one to take the roll of the neutral/park switch that would be on the auto shifter normally, and the other to switch the cruise control off so it doesn't try to accelerate when the clutch pedal is pushed in. Fortunately the Ebay pedals came with the switches, and I just happened to have the full, uncut cruise control harness from the Green Formula parts bird.



I picked up this lightly used Spohn T56 crossmember a few years ago in the classifieds. While it will work, I don't care for how long it'd hang under the car. For the time being it's set aside for this project, but I will probably go out of my way to use something else. Hawks version looks like it'd fit better with my plan, but I don't support Hawks on principle.



Another piece off Ebay. Sure, I could just cut a hole and screw a boot to the tunnel, but I'd rather emulate the way GM would have done it in 1991.



The eagle-eyed viewers might have noticed back on page 1 that when the column was rebuilt, the Airbag coil/wiring, and park lock cable assembly, were deleted. Also I replaced the VATS ignition lock with one for a 5spd car with the key release integrated into the lock.







Next the dash needed a little attention. There were a few issues. The most annoying was that someone had tried to mount something under the dash just to the right of center, and whatever they had screwed to the bottom of the dash hull, broke a chunk out of the dash at some point. Fortunately, the entire dash from the Green Formula Parts Bird was on hand at Big Drew's House of Parts. But do you really want to tear down two dash assemblies just to change the hull? Me neither.



Issue #2 was this cancerous leviathan, woven into the very heart of the dash/interior wiring harness. Dead weight. For those that don't know, this is the harness that connects the Airbag brain box, and all the various airbag sensors. I've never trusted 1st Generation airbags, and I never will. I could never forgive them for their reputation of exploding in your face. Now I'm not saying all airbags are bad, I'm just saying that if my choices are trusting a nearly 30 year old explosive device to save my *** in an accident, or just relying on the seat belt alone, I'll skip the Jokey Smurf Surprise Box. Normally I wouldn't go to the trouble of removing the airbag harness, because it's seriously woven into the interior harness, but in this case I didn't want to leave any trace of it in the car.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

This is about how far I had to strip the wrap off the harness to remove the airbag harness. Little Bill wasn't terribly impressed.

Did You Know - A Thirdgen dash/interior harness stretches more than 17 feet when laid out on a flat surface?



While I was at it, I stripped the auto shifter wiring out of the harness back to the main bundle, then routed the Neutral Safety Switch and Back-up Light wiring back to the clutch pedal and the C100 bulkhead connector. I also took out the TCC Solenoid Switch wiring, since I won't be needing it.



With new connector shells and terminals from Mouser, I modded the harness so it'll plug into the 5spd pedals like it came that way from GM.



Tools of the trade...



I mentioned earlier that salvaged all the power lock and window parts from the Red 89 Formula. I'd read a few threads about adapting more modern features to an earlier car, over the years. It's been discussed that it's relatively easy to use the TRW keyless entry box from an early 4th gen, to add keyless to a thirdgen. Then a few years ago, there was a thread about splicing the later 4th gen Body Control Module into a thirdgen. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...02-f-body.html and http://www.fieros.de/en/articles/BCM.html The Thirdgen.org thread isn't terribly clear, and the Fiero article isn't much better, but armed with the knowledge that it could be done, I felt it was worth looking into.

I broke out the well worn 1991 Firebird GM Service Manual, and downloaded a full set of 2002 Trans Am wiring diagrams in PDF form, and started studying wiring diagrams. After a bit of studying, I had confirmed most of what is suggested in the threads above. Many pages of notes were taken, and hours were spent studying diagrams, to determine the best way to go about getting the BCM into a 1991 Firebird, and making it function. Once I had a solid understanding of how things should be hooked up, I used Photoshop to modify scans of the stock 1991 Firebird wiring diagrams, to incorporate the BCM features. Then I made up a step-by-step plan of action to make the modifications. Finally I printed out hard copies of the procedure and the diagrams, and read through them until I could see still the ghosts (Blinky, Inky, Clyde, and Pinky) running around the maze with my eyes closed.



Next I downloaded a copy of the Packard Electrical Division, er... wait, Delphi electrical catalog, or I mean, uh.. Aptiv? Whatever, the entity formerly known as the GM division in charge of manufacturing all the electrical connectors and terminals. After a deep dive into the world of decoding GM wiring diagrams, and looking at engineering drawings of terminals, and searching hours on end trying to find a single terminal part number, I finally had the parts coming from Mouser. A second hand BCM was obtained off Ebay, a couple relays from Rock Auto, and I went to work.


If you can read this schematic... Just imagine what you could accomplish if you used your skills for Good, instead of Evil.



That the BCM is almost exactly the same size as the Airbag brain box, should be a clear indicator that this mod was meant to be.



I gutted the Airbag module and used the aluminum case to adapt the Airbag module mounts to the BCM, so that it'll bolt right into the 91 Firebird dash, like it belongs there.



The specifics of How the BCM is adapted, are well outside the purposes of this thread. I'd recommend that anyone who wants to do it, read the Fiero page.
Yes, 90% of the wires needed, can be tapped into at the fuse block, power lock relay, and convenience center. I chose to run new wires and make the majority of my connections inside the main wire bundle. In most cases there are already existing splices in the circuits required, so the nice gooey GM duct tape can be peeled off, clean everything up, and solder the new wire into the splice. Wrap it back up with fresh tape, and you'll never know you were there.
Instead of running wires from the factory Power Lock relay, to the BCM, and then all the way back to the factory Power Lock relay again, like suggested in the TGO thead... I chose to break down the stock thirdgen Power Window/Lock harness. Then I flipped the lock portion of the harness so the connections that were at the stock Power Lock relay, were now much closer to where I mounted the BCM. All told, it wasn't too terribly difficult, but not something I'd recommend to someone unless they're very comfortable with automotive wiring, reading tech documents, etc.

To understand how the BCM do, I like to think of it as the link in the middle between the switch, and the item being controlled. Instead of having a Power Lock switch wired to a Lock Solenoid, and an aftermarket alarm T'd into the wire, with the BCM you have a Lock Switch wired to the BCM, and a Lock Solenoid wired to the BCM. When the BCM sees the Lock/Unlock signal from the switch, or from the Keyless Entry Key fob, it activates the solenoid.
The BCM works in the same way for most of the features it controls. Your Ctsy Light switch no longer directly controls the Ctsy Lights. Your Switch sends a signal to the BCM, and the BCM sends the signal to the lighting circuit. So the dimmer switch, the door pin switches, and the Key Fob can all tell the BCM to turn on the dome light.
The Remote Trunk Release works the same way with the BCM. The switch is wired only to the BCM. When the BCM gets a signal from the Key Fob, or the button on the dash, it trips the relay and the trunk opens.

Anyway, that's about all the more I have to say about the BCM project. Of course I won't know if it works completely until it's all back in the car, but I'm confident. <2023 Video of burned up Firebird goes here>

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Some folks out there are surely thinking I'm blowing the issue of dried up, failed, seam sealer out of proportion. Maybe you're thinking I didn't need to go through the entire car, and scrape away all the old sealer. I mean, 'Hey, it looks fine to me', right?




The quarter is for scale. GM squirt this huge BLOB of sealer into a gaping void between panels. Note the heavy layer of rust on the side that had been facing steel. This mess looked OK until it was removed. You might be thinking that this is just an isolated incident.



But it really wasn't. A few chunks of dried up sealer with rust on one side were floating around on my desk for weeks, before they eventually got to be so common I stopped picking them out of the debris pile. Take this public service announcement for what it's worth. Rust could be lurking inside your trailer queen show car, right now, and you might not even know it!



When we last looked at the body, it was July and the engine compartment was coated with Epoxy Primer. The wheel wells and underside of the front subframe were being cleaned and prepared for Epoxy. How do we get from July 2018 to nearly the end of November 2018? Wellllll.... July was hot, and working before noon put the sun glaring in my face. After 3pm in the evenings, when the temps finally started to drop to reasonably comfortable levels, the Oak tree in the backyard provided some merciful shade. But when you're working on a car in a driveway, everything needs to be cleaned before primer can be applied. Spool up the ol' abacus or slide rule, and crunch the numbers with me.



You do what you can to try to keep the project clean and dry, but at the end of the day, you can only do so much working outside. At the start of your work session, you have to unwrap the mummy, and get all the tools laid out. The work surface needs to be cleaned, and wiped down with Wax & Grease Remover. The Epoxy has to be mixed, and strained, then you have a limited window of time to get the Epoxy on the work surface before it turns to waste. Once the Epoxy is on the car, it needs to cure before you can re-wrap the mummy. A watchful eye has to be kept on the weather forecast, and the horizon, because a storm can roll through at the drop of a hat. It's 90-some-odd degrees in the shade, and you're wearing long sleeves, long pants, and a respirator, keep a rag handy to wipe away sweat, because a drop of sweat on that nice shiny clean steel means backing up to, at least, the Wax & Grease Remover. If it's a dry day or it's been a couple of dry days, and the winds and whipping across the Kansas plains, the sky turns hazy with dirt, and you don't dare try to paint today. Same goes for the super calm days when the farmers do controlled burns and wisps of plant life ash float through the air... What's the point? Well.... I'm making excuses for why it took until July of 2018 to even get the top side of the engine compartment primed, and why I still haven't primed the underside. Either all of the above are reasonable tall tales for why the job didn't get done, or maybe some days I was busy doing other things, or I just didn't want to work on the thing -because I felt like being lazy-... Go ahead and judge, my *** was dragging.

It should be mentioned that The Plan was originally to get the thing clean, and then to get one of the other cars out of the garage, so the Firebird could be moved in doors and could have the majority of the body work knocked out over the fall/winter of 2016/2017. Things don't always go according to plan. The clean up, specifically cleaning the underbody, and removing all the undercoating and whatnot, ran into August of 2017. September I was burned out and needed to step away from the project for awhile. October, well you know that Oak tree that provides shade over the driveway? Come fall every year it deposits a Metric $#!t-Ton of Oak leaves in the fenced backyard, and in both driveways. With fences, the leaves don't blow away in the wind, they just end up 3ft deep. What do you mean "these sound like more excuses"? From November of 2017 until about January 1st, 2018, I was rebuilding the dash and altering the wiring to support the BCM, and the T56.

In 2018, I didn't get back to car until April. Spring came later than normal, so again working outside wasn't ideal. Many hours were spent reading Tech Sheets for the Epoxy Primer, and watching Youtube videos about body work. Every free minute that wasn't spent on here, or other car forums reading, were spent on other projects. While waiting for better weather, I took advantage of the garage housing the Iroc. I needed to get inside the doors and address some issues (Window stops, sticky locks, slow windows, clunky latches opening/closing, etc) that I'd been procrastinating for years. Family commitments ate into my time, Spring Cleaning type of stuff, etc... So I didn't get back to the car until April, and sprayed primer through July.



After the first few rounds of Epoxy, I retreated to the comfort of Air Conditioning, and worked on a more 'instant gratification' project. Fast Forward to October... The water heater that had been moaning and groaning, randomly seeping moisture, and so on, finally reached the point that I was worried about it failing. After getting the new unit installed, I hauled the old unit out to the curb, and went to call the trash folks to come haul it off. They were closed already, and it was a Friday... Monday morning the Postman brought me a nice crispy Code Enforcement Nasty-Gram about the water heater at the curb. Really? It was out there for less than 24 hours before someone got their shorts in a bunch. Then just for fun on page 2 was the notice about the in-operative vehicle in the driveway.

Literally, the car has been sitting in the driveway, on jack stands for over a year. It's clean, not wrecked, not leaking fluids, it's in a private driveway boxed in by a 6ft privacy fence on both sides, and an Explorer behind it, but somehow it qualifies as a public nuisance, safety hazard, blight upon the neighborhood. It hasn't hurt anyone, or attracted rodents or insects, since it arrived in 2016, but it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed in 7 days - OR ELSE.

I suppose the water heater on the curb was the straw that broke the camel's back. What do you do, when you have 7 days to -

A) Make a stripped shell into an operative vehicle.
B) Remove the vehicle from the property.
C) Move the vehicle inside.
D) Pay a fine to the city.

Well, you kick the problem around for a few days, consider just calling a scrapper to come haul it away, or debate the best way to make room in the garage to move it indoors...



Finally you get around to building a body dolly or cart? so you can get the car off the jack stands, and make it mobile. Two 10' 2x4s, two 8' 2x4s, a 8' 4x4 fence post, some 3/8" carraige bolts, washers, nuts, and a few hours cutting, drilling, and assembling, a cart is born. Photo above shows the apparatus before the 1x4 skids were added front and back that would rest under the front and rear subframes, and doesn't show the heavy duty polyurethane casters. The cart was finished the day after the photo, and no time was wasted getting the body onto the cart.

How about a fun 'Problem Solving' mental exercise? Now just take a minute, and think this through... How would you go about transferring a mostly stripped Firebird from jack stands, to the approximately two foot tall dolly? I know, it's not as thrilling as asking "How do you get a crew to want to get off a submarine? How do you get a crew to want to get off a nuclear sub..." but just give it a little thought. Maybe it'd be easier to lift the car off the stands, if the crossmember or rear axle were still in the car? But that's not an option, unless you want to bolt a crossmember and rear back into the car, just to set it on the cart and pull the parts off again. Let's assume you are aware that you can lift the entire front of the car off the jack stands, but the back half has the weight of the doors and hatch glass, and no one is going to help you.

If you reached the reasonably logical conclusion of lifting the back of the car with a spreader bar supporting the rear subframe, and then lifting the front of the car up while a family member shoves the cart under the car, then we'd get along. In retrospect, I should have gotten some taller, heavy duty jack stands, and used them to support the back of the car during the transition. Or maybe I should have bolted something to the rear impact bar mounts, and used that as a jacking point, or as an anchor point for some kind of support. Instead I jockeyed the car on a combination of random dunnage perched precariously on top of a rickety Harbor Freight floor jack! A plan just crazy enough to work, Dr Emmett Brown would be proud.



So as of November 2018, the Bird is in the garage, it's on a cart so it can be moved around. Since it's indoors, it can actually be worked on when the weather is shatty. Finally I won't have to spend an hour at the beginning of every work session, unwrapping and cleaning the car before it can be worked on. I won't have to spend an hour every evening putting everything, not bolted down, back in the garage, and wrapping up the car for the night. Hey, this could actually be alright.

Stay Tuned.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

A few shots of the completed dolly, under the car. It's shocking how much easier this rolls than the HF car dollies that go under the tires. So far no signs of sagging, no creaks or shudders. Not too shabby.

Since the car has been indoors, the project has gained a little more attention.





I've stripped the driver's door from the body line down to the lower style line. Aside from a couple layers of green paint, I didn't find any more Bondo, but I have a few door dings to work out. The entire body line along the door bar has some nasty creases. Knowing that they weren't all that visible when the door molding was in place, makes me feel a little better, but I'll probably get serious with the stud welder and body hammers in the near future to see if I can smooth out the door skin. In case anyone is wondering why I don't just re-skin the door, it's because no one offers door skins for a thirdgen. Maybe I need to watch more PDR videos and get some Fancy Dan dent working tools, and finesse the low spots and high spots back into position? I suppose even a layer of filler would probably eliminate the worst of the low spots. At least I can sand or grind away paint to see what's underneath the old repair, and I don't have to seal the panel again before dark, and strip it again the next day when I come back to it...

I've also been working on getting the light surface rust in the driver's side wheel wells cleaned up. The bare steel areas that weren't protected when I parked the project in August has developed a bit of oxide. Fortunately it's light, so light that a pass of Ospho on a towel generally will take it off, but I'm doing my best not to get too crazy with the acid at this point.

The driver's rear wheel well has some surface rust across the top of the inner fender that I've been working at stripping down to bare steel. Getting at it is the issue, { The rust is adjacent to the joint between the inner/outer wheel wells, so there isn't much room to get a grinder or tool in there with a wire wheel. I worked the area with 220 grit by hand, which helped. The other night I treated the red oxide with Ospho. It's now black, theoretically neutralized, but I'll go back and work it a bit more and see if there's more red oxide lurking under the treated layer.

With the new controlled environment, I've also started stripping down some areas that I didn't want to compromise while the car was exposed to the elements. The hair line crack at the top rear corner of the driver's side window, the lower rear corner of the door jamb, the joint between the bottom of the rear quarter and the rocker panel. The tail lights and rear bumper cover are off the body, and out of the way since I no longer have to worry about presenting the partial illusion that it's a car with a license plate verses a Post Modernistic Stamped Steel Art Masterpiece!

There's still more that's been going on behind the scenes. Lots of parts have been obtained, both new and used. A variety of NOS GM parts have been stashed for Sumday. At some point I need to make decisions on things like Subframe Connectors that need to addressed before priming the undercarraige. Eventually I need to finalize the rest of the drivetrain. Since day one, the plan has been a traditional Gen 1 or 1.5 SBC with TPI, my junk pile lends itself to making that an economical approach. That hasn't stopped me from taking notice of LS1 stuff out there. An LS based drivetrain would open up the potential, but I'm not sure about devoting the time to studying those swaps, and learning how to pull that off. Besides, I've got nearly two decades of collected parts, and all the time spent studying TPI topics, that I really just want to go TPI to prove out my concepts. IDK, I'm keeping my options open, but all that's missing to do a TPI V8 with all the classic upgrades are small parts I can source from Rock Auto.

More to come, when I decide if any of the other behind the scenes stuff is worth sharing.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Wow! Some impressive work going on here Drew! No stone left unturned.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Both an M-16 and M-16A1. I thought I saw one of them in an earlier pic.

Also, put me down as a supporter of a TPI SBC.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Thank you for the kind words. It has escalated like falling dominoes. To think I'm petty sure I uttered something back in 2016 about a quick once over to tap out dents, a little sanding, and a quick paint job...

Yes! They multiply! I generally try to keep the hobbies from overlapping too much, but bits of each hobby always show up in the photos. An unshakable interest in history is the thread that runs through all my interests.

A TPI V8 is the most likely outcome, second only to never reaching completion because I decided to go back and start over. LOL

Moving on...

In the interest of trying to keep the project somewhat organized by priority, I figured that I'd get the parts of the body that will be obscured by the drivetrain, dealt with first. Planning ahead, I've been trying to get parts of the undercarriage ready to bolt back into place. Hence the crossmember, and control arms being one of the first sub-projects I started. Being a none too glamorous task, I haven't really documented one of the early tasks...





How do you feel about stale gasoline? The tags expired in '09, so 7 years of sitting, this is what the inside of the tank looked like. You can't smell the photos, but I still can. Now with all the reports of cruddy aftermarket tanks, and being that this is the later baffled tank, it'd be a shame to just discard this tank. So in standard fashion, instead of just grabbing the tank from the Green Formula Parts Bird out of storage...



Instead of using the nice clean tank, I decided to see if I could save the V6 tank. Figured I could always fall back on the other tank if it didn't work out.









Not a ton of photos were taken of cleaning up the tank. The debris inside the tank, was mostly flakes of galvanizing that had lifted from the steel. Most of the residual stale gas got soaked up with paper towels, and plenty of scrubbing was done through the sending unit hole. The tank was briefly sloshed out with acetone to dissolve the worst of the grunge, then it was flushed out with water and Dawn dish soap.

What no one ever tells you about a Thirdgen fuel tank, is that you can't just pour whatever liquid out of the tank. As shown in the keyhole snooping pic inside the tank, the filler neck stops roughly centered in the tank. You can flip the tank inverted and try to shake the contents through the sending unit hole, and it sorta works, but you'll probably never get everything out. If you've never flushed a Thirdgen tank with soap and water, then you don't know the joy of shaking an awkward steel container while water splashes all over you. Yay!

After as much of the inside of the tank was cleaned by flushing, I started trying to get all the flakes out. Reaching in and fishing the bits out a piece or two at a time, is slow and painful. Eventually my improvised solution was to stuff a short garden hose in the tapered Shop Vac nozzle, wrap the joint with duct tape, and use the considerably thinner garden hose extension to route around inside the tank and suck out any remaining debris. Of course you can't even see most of the inside of the tank through the sending unit hole. So picture lowering a Harbor Freight LED light in the hole for illumination, and contorting to look into the tank at an angle, or using a mirror to inspect the inside of the tank. The combination of light, mirrors, and the adapted Shop Vac got everything I could see, cleaned out of the tank.

The exterior of the tank looked like every other part of the car. Areas that weren't coated in undercoat, or shielded by the exhaust heat shield, were dirty, worn, and the factory applied coating had mostly deteriorated. Notice in the photos above that the front half of the tank's bottom is a smooth, solid gray color, while the back half is oxidized darker. The discoloration is the direct result of undercoating and the head shield protecting parts of the tank differently.

As usual, the outside of the tank had to have a million miles of dirt road scrubbed off. Next the undercoating overspray was removed. I did my best to document the ink stamps present on the outside, and debated how best to protect the tank into the future.



The sending unit wasn't too terrible, but the plumbing on the outside had rusted a bit. After poking around with an awl looking for holes, the rust was scrubbed, treated with Ospho, and scrubbed with a green Scotchbrite to remove as much rust as possible. When the clean-up was finished, the sending unit was solid, but ugly... How do you refinish something that was originally galvanized?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Damn 12 image limit!

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

Hey, that tank came out great imo. I can't imagine the number of people/us have not even bothered to do much of anything but drain, and rinse at best the fuel tanks.

Sucks about the city giving you a hard time.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I've used this stuff (take your pick on brand) to coat boat trailer fenders after welding them up from guys that never stand on them.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spra...w=1536&bih=747

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

Tell me about it! You get on a roll and then DENIED!

So, in those tank pics, it appears there is nothing for the filler neck to touch inside? Wonder what I'm hearing when I bob the neck up and down in my Formula like the end of the filler is contacting metal?

Great idea on the wood dolly!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I also have an interest in history, especially military history.

I find myself wanting to start over on various projects as well, because I feel overly critical of my results. Don't fall into that trap. I can see that your results are great, so put your head down and keep moving forward. Okay, done with my pep talk.

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

I just got a mental picture of Bob Saget, as Danny Tanner in the hit classic show "Full House" giving Michelle a life lesson .

KIDDING or course, could not agree more with you. Sometimes we are our own biggest ctitics, and view things through an impossible to replicate glass.

Cannot get enough of this thread......what's the hold up Drew??!? Its been like 5 hours since the last 35 pic upload, and we need more asap

chazman

iTrader: (4)

One more reason to go TPI vs LSx, being able to draw from your parts stash will add to the final satisfaction....

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Keep in mind the pic of the nice clean tank, is the other tank. The Dirty Bird tank cleaned up OK, but not as nice as the one that hadn't had a chance to corrode.

I can't say the note from the city came as a shock. They did the same thing when the Mustang had been sitting for a year without an engine. They hit me with the Nasty Gram on the Mustang while I was serving jury duty. It was a two week murder trial, and I walked right past the City Planning office every morning on my way to the court room. Stopped in and ask for an extension, and before the deadline the new engine was back in the car and running.

It shocked me more than they tagged me for the water heater. 20 minutes after we got the note from the city, we heard a racket out front, a scrapper stopped and was loading the old water heater into his truck. LOL Oh well! They could have done nothing and it would have been gone.

Any trouble with the stuff rubbing off on your hands? I might have to try a cold galvanize spray on the straps. At that point with the tank and sending unit, I was sick of buying cans of paint, each time expecting something different, each time, Squirt... Mexi-Chrome.

Always bites me because emojis count toward the 12.

Could just be the side of the tank flexing. The short accordion looking section should flex, a little, but it's not hard to bend the tank. The other thing that comes to mind is that it could be hitting the edge of the 'window' in the frame rail, where the neck slips through. It's a bit tight right there.

I was happy with my A2, then I picked up a couple surplus A1 parts kits a few years back. Figured I'd build one clone from the best parts of the two, and sell the leftovers. Finished the A1 on an A2 lower, and felt the three prong flash suppressor was more 'Iconic' than the A1 birdcage. I blame Full Metal Jacket... Anyway, I picked up a 3-prong, and was going to just run it on the A1, then the slickside upper fell in my lap. At that point, Brownell's retro lower receivers were available, so the A1 got a proper lower, and I picked up the partial fence lower to complete the M16. You could say that the 3-prong magically turned into another rifle. The Retro Black Rifle Disease is REAL!

I've done a few other more modern AR clones, and collected a handful of milsurps. Of course each rifle needs it's accessories, so I also get to collect bayonets, magazine pouches, slings, cleaning kits, etc. It'll suck a person in as far as they are willing to allow.

I appreciate all the positive feedback. It absolutely is helping me stay positive about working at the Firebird.

Nothing, I found the folder of photos that I'd shared on Facebook, and started looking for pics that I'd lost but might have shared. Only about 5,000 pics to sort through, but I'm finding quite a few pics that were lost in my most recent hard drive crash.

And I will have you know that by consuming that Mustang fender, The Firebird absorbs the Mustang's powers. It's like eating your enemy. The Mustang's steel will be assimilated and add to the strength of the Green Weenie!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

And that's how most stuff happens!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

.

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

I love me some Rock Auto! If I don't need something right this minute to get back on the road, I just patiently wait for it to arrive from Rock Auto! Try telling the parts counter guy your 82 Trans Am has a 327 and their head explodes. They also can't find an air filter for 90 Formula TPI and will bring you a TBI filter twice. No guy, it's not the big round one. My 327 and other 305 take that one.lol Rock Auto has never failed me and the prices, unmatched.

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

Holy ****! A Graham Krache reference!!

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Holy crap! Lookin good man!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Yes! The selection of brands, AC Delco parts, and awesome prices. Plus they ply me with flare for the garage fridge!



The father of modern performance automotive braking. Actually, I don't know... I was diving deep into the history of PBR one evening and came across that pic on one of the company's webpages. Had to do a double take when I noticed he was posing with a PBR rear disc caliper. Of all the products he could have posed with, only one made the cut.

Converting a drum brake axle to disc brakes is a little more complicated than simply ripping off the drum backing plates, and bolting on the disc brackets. The flanges on the axle tubes are different. While the drum flange can be cut and drilled to match the disc backing plates, I wasn't really comfortable doing that. The Outside Diameter of the disc axle tube past the flange is larger in diameter than the drum housing, so really a concentric spacer needs to be used to properly support the disc backing plates.



On the other hand, FlynBye offers 'hassle free' conversion backing plates, that eliminate the issues of cutting and drilling the flanges, and making up for the difference in diameter.

I have to point out that FlynBye isn't the fastest vendor in the world. I can't especially endorse his products and service, because the service can be slow, and communication (if necessary) can be nearly impossible. That said, everything I've ordered, HAS eventually showed up. So trust your own due diligence, because I'd hate for someone to order something because I mentioned the product, and have something go wrong.







I got back after the door today. Since the car is indoors now, it's safe to assume I won't be putting the glass back into the driver's door until the body work is finish. That means I won't be needing the window regulator. Getting the hand cranked Ginsu out of there will make it a bit easier to work on the door skin. Once the regulator was out, I decided to take a look at another issue with the door that I've been ignoring. Specifically there are a number of stress cracks. Tough to say if these are from trying to violently crank the window too far up/down, or if they're related to whatever befell the driver's mirror and door skin... Regardless the inner frame of the door has a few cracks.

I centerpunched the ends of the cracks, and drilled them with an 1/8" drill bit to hopefully relief the stress a bit. Next I used a cut-off disc in the Dremel to V the cracks a bit so I'll be able to hit the cracks with the welder. Before welding, I'll come back with a Roloc disc and strip the paint back away from where the welding will take place.





Another crack closer to the front of the door...



There's also this broken weld where the door skin is tacked to the door structure. I'm tempted to work the door skin until the puzzle pieces line up, then to zap them in place. But I have a hunch that the door skin has shrunk and stretched enough from Roger Ramjet's body work, plus my own efforts, that I might be further ahead to make the door match the fender first, then to tack the joint wherever it falls.





More Meathead Murder/Death/Kill Carnage occured here at the door pull anchor. Somewhere along the line someone appears to have tried to slam the door with the force of a thousand suns, and nearly ripped the mount, clean out of the door, with their Super-Human-Retard-Strength. The tabs in the anchor that serve as the nut for the forward door pull bolt, are nearly pulled out. The mount itself is bent, and even the door shell around the anchor was mangled. A little hammer and dolly straightened most of the damage to the door frame, but the anchor will need to be changed.



Mentioned earlier, when the door detent roller was repaired, I didn't really notice the arm that rides over the roller was a bit peened, and worn to the angle of the old mangled roller. With the new roller, the arm tends to push the roller to an angle. To clean up this mess, I popped the spring out of the hinge, and went after the peened over edge with a file and a Dremel sanding drum. Then I did my best to true the worn and angled arm. This improved the issue a bit, but if I were doing one of these rollers again tommorow, I'd make sure to grind the top of the roller detent pin, so that it is square. It's clear now that the shoulder the roller rests upon, was worn and peened far enough for the new roller to still slop around.

Tune in next time for more exciting tales of additional seam sealer preaching, rust elimination and treatment, amateur automotive proctology...

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

Can't say enough how refreshing it is to watch this thread evolve. I can already pick out a half dozen things that most (myself included) would just toss out and replace with used/nos etc. Not only are they being repaired, but they are being repaired correctly, and are turning out great!

Definitely makes me want to look at things in a new perspective as far as determining whats "junk" anymore. This car is going to be f'n sweet when its done, no doubt about it!

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

Had a question for ya Drew. I know it's already been covered, but can you elaborate a bit more on the process you did to repair the center console delamination, and lid delam?

All the "junk" ones I have appear to separate between the foam (or whatever it is) and the hard plastic "frame". I know you mentioned stretching them back into position/crazy glue, but wondered if you could enter the "no spin zone" and help a dummy like me, lol. Have a couple consoles, lids etc that would be nice to fix up, and use or sell for peanuts to help someone out. I am thinking the same process could be used on arm-rests, radio pods, etc.

Thanks dude!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Sure! Or at least I'll take a wild swing at it, and we can all have a chuckle as I try to describe my approach with words...

My first experience with Firebird console warping and delamination actually would go back to when I got my 91 Formula in 1999. First Firebird, first warbly, twisted console. Those were the early days of Firebird naivety when I simply thought I could just grab another console without the warping, and call it a day. That this was on a not even decade old car, at this time, should have been a good red flag of what was to come. Back then, Thirdgen.org was more relaxed than it is now about non-technical content. I was in the Thirdgen.org chat room (yes, there used to be a chatroom...) and mentioned the console was bugging me. Another member in the chat mentioned he had a good console, so a deal was struck. Now keep in mind, this was 2000, asking for digital pics of parts was asking a seller to go buy 35mm film, take photos, run em down to the 1hr photo-mat, then scan those photos into a computer (assuming a person could find someone with a scanner) and upload those photos on what was most likely a 28.8k modem on dial-up. You can probably guess where I'm headed with this... The new "perfect" console showed up in the mail, and to my surprise it was only marginally worse than my original console that I was looking to discard. This would also be the first of several experiences of getting hosed buying online. In retrospect, not entirely the seller's fault, but I was stuck with a console I had no use for, and I was out my money. At that point, I went to my local Pontiac dealership and made friends with the head of the parts dept, and spent about a week's wages on a NOS console and shifter trim plate, oh and get me a radio pod too, because the one in the car has some screw holes from a car-phone or something...



Falling dominoes... Pic above was after New console, New armrest, New shifter trim plate, New carpet, New Performance Suspension badge, New remote hatch switch, and a New cupholder. All but the carpet courtesy of my new friend Jim at the parts counter.

The second Firebird showed up round here, and it too had console warping problems, but that was the least of my worries with that car. Skipping ahead let's go to the cursed 86 Trans Am.





These aren't the very first pics, but close enough to show where I was starting out. Note the sides of the console are completely blown out, and yes, the cassette deck and HVAC head are laying on the passenger's floor. When I weaseled my way into this car, the radio pod was there, it was just completely destroyed. These pics were after throwing out the pieces.
Aside from the vinyl being completely delaminated, the console was in decent condition. The budget was tight and this was a $200 TPI Trans Am, so running down to the dealer and dropping $300 on console parts, wasn't going to happen.



So how do we get from the first pair of photos to ^^^^This one^^^^? Well, the first step was to get a NOS radio pod and trim plate, because those things were destroyed, and new ones were only about $40 back then. In 2018, if the molded plastic mounts for the radio and the HVAC head are still good, you try to CA the cracked plastic and loose vinyl, and make the best of it. But what about the console? First it helps to look at how these consoles fail in the first place. When manufactured, to get a soft padded vinyl over a plastic core, GM injected something akin to expanding foam between the vinyl outer wrap and the plastic bones. Over time, the vinyl skin shrinks. With the only thing bonding the vinyl to the plastic underneath being the foam, eventually the edges start to peel back and the next thing you know, your console has map pockets.

So we pull the console out of the car, go in and clean any trash out of there, wipe down the core and the foam, then try folding the vinyl back over the plastic core and see how it fits. If you can hold in place with all twelve of your fingers and Super-Human-Retard-Strength, you can probably fix the console. If the vinyl can't be stretched where you want it, it may be necessary to remove a bit of the excess foam padding on the back side to give a little more material to work with. It's a good idea to scrape off the foam around the edges of the vinyl anyway, since the glue will stick better to the vinyl/plastic than foam/plastic. You'll never know if some of the foam is gone, and if you don't remove it around the joint to be glued, sometimes the vinyl will peel off the foam.

Sometimes you get lucky and the vinyl fits perfect with limited force, and all you have to do is glue it back down. In others, like the El Dirto Birdo, the vinyl is shrunk so tight, that you have to Stretch it to get it back where it belongs. Also keep an eye on all the edges. The top of the console is where you'll usually see the warping, but it's not uncommon for the bottom edges of the vinyl down by the carpet to pull back the same way. Keeping in mind that the problem is the vinyl has shrank, we need to consider that the area we see all the time is most important, and that trying to make the vinyl wrap cover the top and bottom as it did originally, may not be possible. So start with the top, and worry about the bottom later.

Once we can physically stretch the vinyl back where we want it, we can start thinking about our Super Glue. Cyanoacrylate. CA. Call it whatever you want, it's sold under a zillion brand names and in different quantities. You can go fancy and buy tiny vials of Krazy Glue, or tiny disposable tubes of generic from Harbor Freight, I personally go through a ton of it building model planes, so I generally never have smaller than a one or two ounce bottle. The Loctite Professional Super Glue works fine, it's not too expensive, and can be found at Walmart.



Another product that can come in handy is CA Accelerator. Just in case you just don't have time to wait for the Super Glue to instantly bond your finger to your work piece, or your jeans to your thigh, or your fingers to your other fingers, science has developed this product with the consistency of water that can be misted over a lake of CA which kicks the cure rate into high gear. So uh, yeah... If you use CA kicker, make sure that the glue is where you want it, and you are where you want to be, and squirt with caution. This stuff has been trickling down to the hardware store and probably even Walmart shelf level for some time now. If you can't find it in the normal places, hit your local hobby shop (if you can even find one) or Hobby Lobby. A couple more quick precautionary warnings... CA and a lot of other adhesives can generate heat when the chemicals react and the product cures. Generally speaking the FASTER CA cures, the GREATER the heat generated. A squirt of kicker often lets off a puff of steam or smoke when the stuff goes off. If the curing CA is on your fingers, or your *****, or whatever the case may be, you will find out "DAMN! That stuff gets HOT!" So exercise a little caution, you have been warned. You also don't want to breathe that smoke, or the vapors from this stuff...

Ok, now we can sit back and admire our freshly rewrapped console! Wait, I skipped something... So anyway, with our stickum products in hand, and our vinyl able to be stretched back to where it needs to be, we can get started. Unless you have a third arm, or twelve fingers laying around, you might also want to grab some clamps. Clothes pins, or spring clamps from Harbor Freight, anything that can help you hold the vinyl while you manipulate glue, and apply pressure. Pick where you want to start, generally a place where the delam is bad, or an important spot like the corner near the ashtray by the E-brake lever relief. Peel back the vinyl, and apply glue (somewhat sparingly) to the plastic, in a small area. I usually try to do about an inch at a time. Apply the glue, then stretch and hold the vinyl in place. Wait 20 seconds, and release your hold, if it stays stuck, we can move on. If it doesn't stay stuck, you probably used too much glue, or your version of 20 seconds is more like 10 seconds. Now in some cases, like too much glue, gluing vinyl to plastics, or severe ADD, that squirt of kicker really comes in handy. Hold in place, aim, fire, wait 20 seconds, release... Keep in mind that if you get kicker on something, and then touch it with the tip of your super glue bottle, or dribble a bit more glue on after using the kicker, you'll probably discover that the residual kicker activates the new glue. So don't go crazy and get kicker on everything you're going to be grabbing and gluing soon. Ok, with our first section done, we can move on to the next bit. Move down the line about an inch or two, peel back the vinyl, squirt glue, hold in place, watch the TV for 20 seconds, or hit it with the kicker, release... Just keep repeating as you go, until the entire perimeter of the console is glued.

Don't forget that since the vinyl has shrunk, and we're stretching it back out, we don't want to stretch it too much, and end up pulling so much that we reach the end, and we have too much excess vinyl. It's probably not going to be a problem, but to prevent having a tummy tuck kangaroo pouch, we can do our gluing in sections. Such as, maybe do the six corners first, and work your way to the center of a stretch. Or stick a corner, and then stick down an inch to the left of the corner, then an inch the right, and alternate. Plan ahead as necessary. If you know that it's going to be difficult to peel back a section of vinyl after another section is glued, do a larger section, or do the more difficult or important spot first. Try to avoid applying glue, and slapping on a clamp. Clamps will often squeeze the vinyl too tight, and when you remove the clamp you'll have a dent, because the glue bonded the vinyl in the clamped position. If you have to clamp an area with uncured glue, use a spreader bar under your clamps to apply pressure over a wider area, a paint stir stick or popsicle stick works well. Or just use your finger tips...

Once the top of the console has been glued all the way around the shifter plate opening, we can do the same around the bottom. Again, any excess foam that keeps the vinyl from reaching it's spot can be carefully removed. When the job is done, Acetone or fingernail polish will dissolve any dried glue from finger tips. They also sell a product optimistically named
"CA De-Bonder" that can be used to clean up any glue messes, or if you applied too much glue and dripped it all over everything, it might come in handy. But it's only so effective. If you glued your jeans to your thigh, and went to the restroom and glued your paw to your junk, it's going to suck either way. You have been warned.

This same process works very well on the console armrest, 88 (or was it 89?) and later door armrests, and to an extent radio pods. Some people prefer using Gorilla Glue and clamps. I suppose that'd probably work well, since Gorilla Glue is basically an expanding foam adhesive, but I prefer instant and permanent results, hence super glue. No pics exist of this process in action, because I have two arms, and no one to run the camera.









Is it "perfect"? No. Is it good enough? Yes. Is it worth $500 to get the same thing from Hawk's?

Hope it helps, FWIW.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Keep the kicker away from your *****. Got it!

Ever use crazy glue to repair a blown arm rest?

Black00SS

iTrader: (5)

Awesome man, thank you so much for the detailed write up! One last quick ?, have you had any issues with the foam coming loose from the vinyl, after you have glued it to the plastic inner shell over time?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

You hear one third or fourth party tale of a genital glued to something inadvertently, it makes an impression you don't soon forget. Closest I can come to first hand knowledge was tipping an open container of solvent I was using to de-grease some parts, which then spilled off the table into my lap. Took about 30 seconds before I was back inside the house in the shower. Take it from me, keep everything away from your member! Except the loose women, but everything else -Prohibitado! No bueno!-

Yes! The black armrests in my gray 91 Firebird, were completely blown out junkyard specials. Same process, clean, peel back the edges, glue, hold, repeat.






Over time? Not really. Usually if the vinyl is really stretched too far, you'll know as soon as you let go, because the foam will stay stuck to the plastic, but the vinyl will peel or tear off the foam. That's why I suggest removing the foam where it won't be seen, so that the vinyl can be stuck directly to the plastic core.

In extreme circumstances, or eventually, I could imagine the vinyl shrinking enough to crack the plastic, but in my experience, once the repair is finished, it's good to go for life.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Okay, dumb question. How do you get the plastic cap off the front pull of the arm rest over the bolt, without damaging it or altering it, so it looks ABSOLUTELY PERFECT when you reinstall it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Easy. Use the armrest from a couple year later car, after they stopped using the style with plugs.

In all seriousness, I skipped a few years between 87 and the 91's I've kinda settled into, so I haven't had to deal with style with caps. Without being intimate with them, I'd probably try using something like a small flat blade, or one of the picks from a hook/awl set.



If it's like the screw caps over the padded cover under the airbag equipped cars, I generally try to slip the tool under the cap from the side, push in as far as possible and try to work it out pressing against the back side. No clue if that'd work with 88-89 armrests or not...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I was thinking about using glue tabs from a PDR kit to pull them off. I've changed wheel center caps like that before, without having to remove the wheels to tap the old caps out. Call me Mr. Lazy.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The story of my life since starting this thread.



Creeping forward a bit. I'm not sure how clear it translates in photos if a person hasn't seen the topographic nature of the door skin in person. Please forgive the MS-Paint telestration.



The yellow arrows indicate high spots along the door's body line. Each of these high spots corresponds with a blob of adhesive between the skin and the impact bar. Best guess, when the mirror got that stupid grin wiped off it's face, the rest of the door all rubbed up against the same obstacle. The areas between the blobs gave more than the areas that were supported, so you get this high spots. I couldn't really think of a way to shrink these high spots down, but I kinda figure that the blobs are in my way. I've already removed a few of them so there won't be anything supporting the door skin while I'm working on the high spots.



Another shot in the door shows how these blobs were about every 6" along the length of the impact bar. Plan is to work these high spots a bit with the hammer and dolly, and get them maybe even a little blow the height they should be, so that it won't take quite so much filler to smooth out the door.

Also in these above photos, you can see there is a high-low-high ridge following most of body line across the door. It's not terribly obvious, but I will probably at least try to raise the low spots a little. I'm a bit scared of over doing it with the metal banging, so I've been putting this off. At some point I'll have to just jump in and start working on it.

When I'm mostly satisfied that the door is close enough for filler, I'll go back and replace the blobs. Thinking 3M NVH should ought to do the job. If I did nothing to add support to the skin from the bar, the door would sound like a steel trash can full of empty Keystone Light cans.



I have mentioned Ospho by name a few times, it's probably worth explaining exactly what it is. In basic terms it's a Phosphoric Acid solution. When applied to rust, it chemically converts the rust into a somewhat protective and inert coating. It's just aggressive enough that it'll dissolve light rust, and it'll protect bare steel from rust after treatment. It's a good thing when we're trying to kill the rust and the bare steel may be exposed for awhile. Just keep in mind it is an acid, you don't really want to breathe it too much, or get any on yourself. Some autobody experts have different views of the stuff, so do your own research before you follow in my footsteps.







Just for the sake of demonstration... I treated a few spots of the door pull/armrest bracket to illustrate how effective this stuff can be. I squirt a bit of Ospho on a paper towel and started scrubbing. I probably went over each spot 3 or 4 times, a squirt of Ospho, then waiting 30 seconds or so, and rubbing until the cheap paper towels I was using started wearing out. This bracket has been open to the elements for quite some time, and in a matter of minutes it went from orange rust to mostly clean metal.

I've also kept a plastic container of this stuff on the shelf to soak the worst rusty bolts and parts. It does a good job of dissolving rust in this manner. It does have it's drawbacks, it can discolor the metal. The acid etches the base steel, which has a bit of a whitish gray tone when it is rinsed and dried. The acid itself generally should be neutralized by scrubbing generously with water, so it's not always going to be the best choice. As I eluded to before, some body experts don't want acid near any number of paint projects. Being a hardware store item, it's probably safe to just follow the label instructions if you're treating patio furniture and painting it afterward with Rustoleum, or something similar. If you're doing something more serious, follow the label instructions, and Google up a storm of information on using it with your application before diving in. I've read up on it extensively and am still a little uncomfortable about problems it might cause, but I'm willing to risk the potential negatives for the results.

Not quite a full 12 images in this post, but I'm not sure what else I could cover in 4 images. So... Until the next update.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

You're doing amazing work Drew! Sure is fun to follow along.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Sure is!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Might be a little slow on updates for a few days... HP Laptop charger died last night, just one month out of warranty. Mediocre. It'll be a few days before a new one gets here from Amazon. While I was on there, I finally pulled the trigger on the Dura-block set that's been in my cart for about a year.

I'm leaning towards working the dents a bit further on the door skin, and moving on to body filler. After working with the door a bit last night, I'm not sure how much good I can do pulling low spots, without creating high spots. Aside from a few dents/dings I haven't worked yet, and the front area around the body line, I can't especially feel or see the dents. They only show up when I hit em with a guide coat and knock off the high spots with a block. Can't do much more at the front of the door since the bracket for the door bar is covering the area that needs work. Suppose I'll have to try it and see.

I did get a few photos while I was out there...





The second worst area of rust on the car, before and after a little work. Hard to say if this rust started in the open area of the wheel well, or behind the plastic shield for the fuel tank filler neck. Half the peeling paint and rust was inside and half outside. It's a bit difficult to get at this rust, because a grinder or drill with a wire brush won't really fit up between the panels. Thus far, the only way I've been able to get at much of it is sanding by hand. The after pic shows some of the flaking paint that has been removed, and some of the rust that's been cleaned to bare steel. It also shows the rust after being treated with Ospho and scrubbed with a scotch brite pad. I'll go over this again and if any orange comes through after sanding or grinding, it'll get scrubbed and retreated until it's 100% neutralized or back to shiny steel.

Also got some more demo photos of Ospho in action...



This ugly cuss has lived a hard life. While it's probably not worth trying to bend it back into shape, it's a nice crusty piece of steel that can be cast into a tub of acid for amusement.



Like the Joker on Batman, but with less charm.



After less than 5 minutes... Not quite ready...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

kentuckyKITT

iTrader: (4)

This thread is like a drug. I can't get enough and can't concentrate on my own car!

"Take this public service announcement for what it's worth. Rust could be lurking inside your trailer queen show car, right now, and you might not even know it!"

Oh man, do I need to tear the car down again to look? Shoot, what if it is rusting where I can't see until it's too late? What if my trailer is rusting where I can't see? It's too much to think about!! I must put this out of my mind immediately. If I can't see it, it's rust free...I hope.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'll just never stand there idly, hosing down the firewall, again... Not after what I've seen. Sure it washes away the bugs and leaves of whatever that might have collected, but it also can get inside and soak the carpet padding!

Teaser!





I'm still crunched for time until a charger shows up for the laptop, so no mega update for tonight. I was walking past the Firebird on the way to the freezer for a burrito, and the siren song drew me in. Ended up working on it for a few hours. The door skin is getting worked back down to bare steel. Kind of leaning towards getting it all stripped and hitting it with epoxy primer, then evaluating the golf ball texture. Thinking a skim of filler and blocking it out will probably clear up most of the remaining damage, since I can't really raise the remaining low spots without creating high spots. All the worst damage has bracing behind it, so the only way I can move it around is by welding studs.

Also made the Infamous El Dirto ride the lightning. I've got a few pin holes left to zap, and a spot or two where I didn't get great penetration, or missed the crack completely. Damn HF welding helmet is a real pain to see out of. However, I discovered I'd left it turned on for months on the bottom of the welding cart. A few minutes with the trouble light sitting on the solar panel, and it was working again. Now if only I could see through the damn thing.