Mrbrent86

I am new to this message board, as well to the 3rd gen. I recently purchased a 1982 z28 with CFI, automatic. After extensive reading I can see how that might now have been the smartest choice, but I am recently home from a tour and just could not help myself when I saw it. I have about a $3500-$4000 budget and I was hoping for some sound suggestions on what I could do to get the most out of my money. I am not a car guy, but I'm learning, and am open to any ideas. Thank you

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The talk of the town right now, in relation w/the CFI engines, is the new Renegade intake. Save the following page, and watch it's progress. If you don't want to wait for it, you can always go the tried and true X-Ram intake for the CFI's. Heads, cam, injectors, and tuning, and you'll be good to go....

"Renegade"

http://www.crossfireinjection.net/renup.html

X-Ram

Mrbrent86

Too bad I can't wait.x-ram, heads, cam, intake and tuning won't go over the budget? a got a lot of suggestions to swap the 305 out for a 350 and get away from the CFI. again I'm pretty new to this, and am trying to learn so the more details the better thanks.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You can get away from CFI, but there is really no need to. If you had TBI, then some of the fella's would be telling you to swap to TPI, if you had TPI, then some of them would tell you to ditch it and get a carb, and on and on and on. The bottom line is, give an engine what it wants, air and fuel, meter it accordingly, and it will give you what you want. CFI is an excellent platform to start with, and if your going to invest in an upgrade, ditch the 305, and go with a 383, but keep the CFI for now. Just invest in the right injectors, and learn how to do your own tuning. Even if you swapped to Tuned Port Injection, the latter is still a must.

-Rob

Mrbrent86

Injectors? a 383, why not the 350?I'm only asking because I know this site is full of experts, but one thing I know for sure is I'll end up overspending ordering an engine or random parts by shopping for stuff at most sites. I'm looking for information on what upgrades go with what, like what parts exactly and the price tags I am looking at for them. I know there are a lot of different directions I could go in with this, and I'm trying to make the best possible choice with the money I have now because I'm deploying again after spring. I have personal friends who are mechanics, and access to all the tools I'll need I'm just looking for thorough suggestions from people with the experience

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... because a 383 is only a hop, skip and jump away from a new 350 regarding price, and the more cubic inch displacement for the same amount of money, the better. In reference to injectors, you will need to increase their volume so your fuel will be able to keep up with the engine's demand. The stock injectors won't cut it, even with a modded 305.

Before you contemplate your purchases, what is your overall goal though with the car....?

I have seen 305's, 350's, 383's, V6's, 4-cyl's, all run in the tens at Englishtown. An engine is an engine, give it what it wants, and it will give you what you want in return. There are complete standalone ECM's out there for less than $500.00, there is an abundance of EFI setups to choose from, you just need to provide adequate fueling if you go w/port injection. Again, you need to ask yourself what your overall goal is with the car....

Mrbrent86

I understand that. nice suggestion on the 383 because I never thought about that. The only suggestions from people was to "get the 350, f**** the 305". Another suggestion I got was to change out the transmission, I don't like it being an auto either. My overall goal with the car right now is to get the biggest gains that I can get out of almost 4000, and I'll be doing most of the work myself, a friend of mine will be helping, he was a mechanic for years. Where I live I put up with a lot of bumble bees flying around and theres nothing worse than getting s**t on by something that sounds like the remote control cars I played with as a kid. After I get back from Afghanastan I'll be able to drop w.e kind of money I please into it (leave sometime after this summer)

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

First of all, thank you for your service! If there is anything that I can do to help, I'm right here in Old Bridge, so don't hesitate to ask....

.... secondly, don't get caught up in all of that get a 350 nonsense. Yes, a 350 will make more power, but so will a 454 for that matter. Why not consider boost? If you adapt a turbo charger to that 305, set max boost for 15-psi, and now you have 610 cubic inches to play around with. You can build an excellent turbo charged setup for under $4000, just keep compression to a safe 8.5:1 compression by swapping to a thicker head gasket, get yourself a standalone Megasquirt ECM for less that $500.00, and pick whichever setup you want. I would recommend TPI, because it's cheap nowadays, but still very effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUOi908RLe4

Mrbrent86

I've decided to stick with my 305 for now, the engine only has 50K on it, and was garage kept. The turbo is an interesting suggestion I never thought about, but I believe that it is the way I'm gonna go. Gonna go with an exhaust, injectors, go with 3.23 ratio in the rear, new headers, the Turbo. The megasquirt I've heard about but I am not sure what you mean by picking the setup I want. Buying this standalone megasquirt would enable me to switch from CFI to TPI?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

A 3.23 ratio in the rear is perfect for blown applications, as turbo's like the excessive load, it helps them spool faster. You can get away with 3.42's as well, but I wouldn't go any lower (higher, numerically), as 3.73's would be too much. Megasquirt is simple to hook up, as it already comes with a 350 small block tune, as well as a built in MAP sensor, and will virtually run anything. It truly is plug and play, but you'll need to swap out the stock CFI fuel pump in exchange for a Walbro 255 unit. Been there, done that lol (not fun)....

What I meant as far as picking the setup that you want was exactly that, you can either go port injection (TPI, HSR, LT1 Intake Swap, etc), or even a blow-thru carb. There are so many route's you can go it isn't even funny. If you don't have access to a welder, but would like a cheap set just to get you by, then consider the single XS-Power setup....;

http://xs-power.com/gm-turbo-manifolds-3.htm

There is a guy here in Jersey running that setup with his carb, and it's holding just fine. You can also consider the BBS Designs route, but he's kind of expensive, but well worth every penny, as they are incredibly strong. he sells just the header, but you can get him to do the other header, as well as the crossover for a single turbo application....;

http://www.bermudezcustomdesigns.com...nce_Parts.html

TPI setups are a dime a dozen, and its a very easy swap....

-Rob

Mrbrent86

I read in a lot of places that the xs power manifold setup had to be reinforced, but other than that had no problems, a solid manifold. Would I have to do welding in order to reinforce it. But as far as xs's turbo kit setups I'm seeing a lot of bad reviews, what turbo kits would you recommend that would work well with the xs-power manifold.

Mrbrent86

To go along with those questions, your previous suggestion to go to an x ram intake, would that work nicely with a good turbo, the injectors, a new radiator, 3.23's in the rear, a new exhaust. Thanks a lot so far though, you've been a huge help so far and I've been learning a lot.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It wouldn't hurt to have the XS-Power setup reinforced, but I don't feel it to be necessary under 15-psi of boost. If anything, you'd want to have the turbo reinforced while sitting on the header, maybe a bracket from the turbo to the intake manifold for additional support, as this will ease some of the weight off of the header. When it comes to the actual turbo and wastegate themselves though, I would recommend something a little more credible. My buddy Dave has gotten away with a China turbo for years, and he put it through the mill, but there have been others who weren't so lucky with them. There are a few sources on ebay that I would recommend though....

Here is Gibson's XS-Power turbo setup (must be logged in to see pics)....;







Here is Dave's 2.8 home grown setup, w/China turbo (it lasted much abuse, believe me)....;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuaInKgvqsA

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You could get the X-Ram setup to work with a turbo, but tuning would inevitably be the key in getting it to run right. For the amount of money you would invest with that, I would much rather you consider running the Holley EFI intake, w/elbow and throttle body. It comes ready to adapt your injectors and fuel rail, as that setup controlled by the Megasquirt would be the ideal choice....;

Mrbrent86

Great information again. Thank you. I'm taking in a lot of information, while going through a full tune up, fluid,rubber,filter,wiring change in the car right now, while dealing with my arm in a sling for a few more weeks bc of my last deployment. I'm having a lot of fun I wish I got into this earlier. So this might sound stupid, but I tried looking up china turbo and I cannot seem to find it. Here's what I have so far...Im going to get an exhaust, a decent one, I think I'll be able to find that fine. The fuel injectors, are inexpensive, a better radiator not bad either and easily found. A thicker head gasket, you mentioned earlier, not really sure where I should get one seeing as there are so many places, and I do not want to get ripped off.The TPI set up sounds like a good idea, suggestions on which setup to go with for that would be great. The Holley EFI Intake I found, and I'm going to go with the XS manifold for the Turbo. Like I mentioned earlier I'm still questionable on what Turbo to go with. And I'll go with your suggestion on the ECM megasquirt setup. I know it's possible to purchase all of these things within my 3500-4000 budget, just a little direction on where to look and exact parts would really be appreciated, I don't want to sound lazy, haha just a little green and confused. Again, thanks a lot.

- Brent

Mrbrent86

A whole lot of hits and noone but street lethal is replying. I greatly appreciate his suggestions and knowledge, and I would like to hear from some more people with their knowledge and point of view. I am going through a major tune up process right now, keep in mind I am a complete beginner but I think I'm doing pretty good so far, any more suggestions on what upgrades to give my car in order to get the most out of almost 4K before my next deployment?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Come bring that thing to the track tomorrow night to get a baseline before the mods. I'm headed over thereto race with some Grand National guys that I know. Oh, and, don't forget about this weekend!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-3UAv9sgxk

Mrbrent86

Great information again. Thank you. I'm taking in a lot of information, while going through a full tune up, fluid,rubber,filter,wiring change in the car right now, while dealing with my arm in a sling for a few more weeks bc of my last deployment. I'm having a lot of fun I wish I got into this earlier. So this might sound stupid, but I tried looking up china turbo and I cannot seem to find it. Here's what I have so far...Im going to get an exhaust, a decent one, I think I'll be able to find that fine. The fuel injectors, are inexpensive, a better radiator not bad either and easily found. A thicker head gasket, you mentioned earlier, not really sure where I should get one seeing as there are so many places, and I do not want to get ripped off.The TPI set up sounds like a good idea, suggestions on which setup to go with for that would be great. The Holley EFI Intake I found, and I'm going to go with the XS manifold for the Turbo. Like I mentioned earlier I'm still questionable on what Turbo to go with. And I'll go with your suggestion on the ECM megasquirt setup. I know it's possible to purchase all of these things within my 3500-4000 budget, just a little direction on where to look and exact parts would really be appreciated, I don't want to sound lazy, haha just a little green and confused. Again, thanks a lot.^^^

- Brent



^^^^Don't know if you received that message, my post count stayed the same and you usually respond. As for going down to track I would be more than glad to, but I haven't registered it yet because the inspection laws where I am are a b**ch(I moved right out side of NJ to Easton, PA for my wife) and I'm trying to get a full tune up done, and learn in the process, with one of my arms in a sling from Iraq. I still have the fuel lines to replace, trying to find a good place for them as well, and they are giving me crap about my headers and no emissions in the vehicle so they won't let me pass emissions. Thanks for the invite though sir, really appreciate it.

-Brent

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Make sure you go with Megasquirt II, as it's able to control both converter lockup, and electric fans (whether your car came with electric fans or not, doesn't matter). The turbo and wastegate selections are key, but you'll also want to setup, beforehand, how it's going to get oiled. You want a feed, and a drain line. What yuou'll need to do, is tap into the oil pressure line next to the distributor with a "splitter" (Home Depot has them), then, like I did to mine, use the mechanical fuel pump block off plate as a drain (just drill it, and weld a fitting to it), it makes it easier this way as opposed to punching and tapping the oil pan. You'll also want to use BRAIDED STEEL line, to and fro the turbo charger....



Well, I can't say anything on the web of course, but if you bring the car over, I'll see what we can do about the inspection sticker for you. But yes, if you can make it down sometime in the near future to get a baseline, that would be good, this way you can see where you stand before the mods....

-Rob

Mrbrent86

Would one of those hand torches from autozone work as far as the welding goes? And as you said before, TPI setups are a dime a dozen, would you suggest going with a complete used setup? I am gonna take this one step at a time, exhaust first, injectors, new fuel pump and radiator second, switch to TPI w/ a cold air intake, megasquirt II system, new edelbrock heads, then the turbo to finish it off...missing anything? and does that sound good to you. And I sent you a PM about the other thing subject.

-Brent

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You'll need a tig/mig welder, any credible shop can do it. Dont do the injectors yet because that will be a waste of money, as TPI runs totally different one's, not to mention 8 in total. Go with the exhaust and fuel pump, but make sure you go with a Walbro 255 fuel pump, as that will be more than enough to feed the blown TPI. If you do the pump, you don't necessarily need a TPI sending unit to go with it, but since the stocker will be out, it wouldn't hurt to install one to make life easier. When you get the heads, first determine how much boost you want to run (because it gets addicting), and if it's 15-psi+, then be sure to get a set of heads with at least 76-cc, no less than 72-cc though, this will give you the desired 8:5.1 and/or 9:0.1 compression level for boost, and you will be able to run regular fuel for the street....

-Rob

Mrbrent86

Suggestions on what kind of exhaust to go to? I hard its a real pain in the a** to stay true duals like it is stock. And I'm about to do the fuel lines, just because it hasn't been done and I wanna prep the car right for upgrades, suggestions on the type fuel line or where to get it?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Fuel lines can be costly, but if your going to do that, you might as well go braided line all the way, it'll out last your car. The steel lines are good, but if you make them on your own, you need special tool (flare gun) to work in conjunction with saginaw fittings. Its not as costly, but its a real PITA. The stock lines could be made to work. I have a lot of extra stuff that I no longer need if you want, because I sold my old carbed '86 Z28. For exhaust, you can go with any exhaust sound you want. Reason being, is because your going to run a cut out anyway right before where the catalytic converter would be, so the exhaust will never be a restriction when your racing. If you want sound though, Spintechs are good. If you want true dual's, go with a Bassani true dual exhaust, but modified for third gens....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0yPfARLlLo

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...sani-true.html

Z2887

I dont know. I mean for 4 G's, you could have an aluminum headed 383 that could run down in the 11's, be very drivable, and drop right in without any problems at all.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Don't forget though, at 15-psi, he's running 610 cubic inches, not 305, and 610 will get him in the nines if thats where he wants to go. He'll also save on fuel when he's not on the gas....

Z2887

How long will a stock shortblock last with 15lbs of boost, driving it everyday ?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That is what boost controllers are for, just set it for minimium boost (you can have the wastegate bleed at 3-psi if you want), and you don't have to worry. Also, 15-psi is not a lot of boost, and as long as detonation is kept in check (intercooler, 16-bit processor like MS II), he will be fine. The engine will last forever so long as proper maintenance is done like every other engine (oil change, tune up, etc)....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Just to share something with you, this is my good friend Paul's (PaceCarTA) '86 Grand National. In case you didn't know, not one Grand National, or TTA, came with forged parts from the factory, not one, they were ALL cast. He has driven this car for the last seven years, everyday, and the rolling assembly is BONE STOCK (cast), and he has had it up well past 30-psi. He runs alky at that level of course, but that is simply to control detonation with an 8-bit processor. Putzing around at 15-psi on the street requires no alky, because it isn't that much boost with an intercooler. He's the first and last run....;

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/A...-Gns_86367.htm

Z2887

Well I do know that there is no way him or anyone else is going to run 9's on a stock 305. 15 Lbs. of boost is alot for a set of cast pistons. I have never understood why anyone puts a blower or turbo on a stock engine. With my car (TFS heads, cam, and intake), I have raced literally dozens of stock cars with Vortechs, and Prochargers, ect ect. I have never had one even think about running with me. I know 15 lbs of boost is pushing the limits of a stock 5.0 Ford, and they have VERY short rods, and ateast hypereutectic pistons( Some have forged). Im not saying it wouldnt run good, but its not going to run THAT good. Not to mention a hell of alot more work. The main thing is, its not going to be dependable with cast pistons.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I just posted a video of my buddy Paul's daily driven Grand National, and every turbo buick came with cast parts, every one, and they were all capable of 15-psi out of the dealer, so how can you even imply that? That car of his has hundreds of passes, as we go to the track three times a week, in fact, we're going there tonight if your in the area, and your more than welcome to hit him up for a race....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I don't know where you run, but you'll be humbled here. Any video's of your car at the track by any chance, as I'd like to see her in action? Also, what was factory compression of the stock 5.0 Ford engine's, 9:2.1? I wouldn't expect that stock Mustang to be pushing 15-psi, especially if he wasn't running an intercooler, or a higher grade of fuel....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Care to put some money on that? This is what Marty ran on a STOCK BLOCK (40 over) 350, w/crummy heads, and mystery cam. A stock 305 wouldn't be too far behind those times....

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/in...?topic=61219.0

Z2887

No, I dont have any vids. My car is a Mustang. lol The only 1/4 mile pass its ran with the current setup was a 10.26 @ 135. With a very sad 1.8 60 ft. Then I found the Lakewood lift bars were incorrectly installed. I could stand on the trunk and it would even push down. Solid as a rock. lol

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... I'd be the first to admit, those are VERY nice times. That trap is really moving!

Z2887

This is as close to a vid as I can do right now.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You got me wanting to leave the completely stock 305 in, just to prove it can be dipped into the 9's lol. This is one of my projects as of right now; '90 GTA w/305-TPI (engine in bone stock). Will be running two T49 turbo's once I get the down pipe's finished....;

.... the 350 in the picture was being used as a mock up for the turbo's;




.... and this is what that 350 (w/single T88) is going into;

Z2887

Im not saying you can do it with only 305 cubes. I just dont see running even close to 9's with stock heads on a 305. Some of the pro Mustang guys have run 9's on stock 5.0 shortblocks. They have been taken apart,rebalanced, checked, decked and squared up, double checked though. They still didnt use stock heads on them.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Well no, I'm not encouraging the OP to go ***** to the wall with a stock engine, but so long as detonation is controlled, he will be fine. Rather that invest in a crate engine, he should take advantage of the 305's tiny bore (turbo guys are nabbing them up now), as they are less prone to detonation, and can take a beating, even with the 3.48" stroke. He could always add a forged roller assembly to the 305 down the road, but for now, he'll at least have the foundation setup....

Z2887

OK. Time out for a sec. lol For the last about 4 years I've been at my current job. Im on the net all day everyday, and a member of MANY MANY sites, and a moderator on 4. This is the only one I see people calling others "The OP" can you please tell me WTF "OP" means ? lol

Z2887

I missed a couple post somehow. lol

Thanks man. With the trap speed, Im sure it has 9's in it. They wont let me run the 1/4 anymore there though. I had about 10 feet of pavement before I was in the grass. lol Stock brakes ,and Autozone pads arent that great, let me tell ya. I believe with my lift bars fixed it should do it now.

Z2887

He didnt give times for that setup. He said...

"I have ran a best of 10.10 in my T/A with a 350, dart 200's and a 224 duration cam at 22 psi. "

Now hes trying a

"bone stock 100'000 mile 2 bolt 350 and a set of used 487x heads along with a comp 268 cam"

Then he says..

"It should only be airflow challenged by the stock heads compared to my current combo so i think it will still run 10.70's if it lives."

Key words... "If it lives" lol

Its just my opinion, but I dont think you can compare a bone stock 305, even to the 350 with 487 heads. Those are pretty good for stock heads. So he's guessing 10.70's "If it lives". Which IMO, its not going to even run that. With his engine having 45 cubes,better heads, and a aftermarket cam.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

OP = Original Poster....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

130-mph plus can be downright scary lol, I tell people all of the time that are running mid 11's, and who are trapping close to 120-mph, that once you get into 130-mph land, you better bring your racer's a-game, which requires total concentration. That is why I refuse to pair up against a FWD at those speeds, I almost lost my life a few years back as a turbo Honda crossed over into my lane at the end of the track....

Z2887

LMFAO

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It's a lot to read, and the info is all over the place, but here is the actual article broken down by car craft (original 991 truck heads with the 1.72/1.50 valves, 9.74 @ 141-mph, best w/those heads)....;

http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehi...ird/index.html

Z2887

Yeah I almost needed that clean pair of drawers out of the glove compartment. LMAO Thats why I have plastic seats. The clean off easily. LOL

Z2887

That is definately awesome.....and a T-88. Damn thats a fairly good size turbo. Im still not used to being back in Chevyland I guess. On the Mustangs the T-88 cars are making right around 1000 HP. The last one I remember was like 980 something I believe. A car like mine With a T-76 would be running somewhere around mid 9's. That 135 mph pass on my car was only with a 180 shot.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I haven't been in a FOX body in a very long time. The last one I was in was a notchback w/351 Windsor, larger injectors, and a Vortech Supercharger. My buddy let me drive it over at Englishtown, and it got very loose just after the 1/8th mile, so I immediately let off. I don't remember my time, but I think it was like 11.7 @ 98-mph. I think that is the only car that I would ever consider actually adding weight to lol....

Mrbrent86

What heads would you suggest?I read aluminum could cause problems. And the Walbro 255 high pressure fuel pump I'm looking at says for 85-91, from Inline motor stores, would it work with my 82 CFI?

Mrbrent86

...and I am ordering the lines and pump today, any suggestions on where to get them from? And what kind of disconnect tool, I heard some bad things about the plastic one. Finally, should I get the lines in the 25' set, are there specific sizes I'm gonna need, and are there other things I'm going to need to go along with the pump to install it, I see mounts and plates. My arms out of the sling finally from that deployment injury, not supposed to use it but I'll finally be able to get the car up on the jacks and get around down there. Pretty exited about it, couldn't even replace the distributor cap and rotor bc of the damn arm before.