yea there right 8mike9 when u tell a shop to take their time THEY WILL when i told urbanhunters shop to take there time my motor wasn't done for 7months

 

I was going to leave it at my apology, but since there seems to be a bandwagon forming, think about this:

When all you have to go on is the "thread" you are reading, you draw your conclusions based on said thread.

Now if you really want to get picky, just re-read the thread and draw your own conclusion. Just off the thread, since that's what's being discussed...not what is/was said after the fact.

 

I know what you meant Mike, that's the only reason I clarified it, because from the thread, it does sound kinda odd.
Personally I wouldn't have had my car there for 6 weeks just to diagnose something.
I keep in contact and go down frequently though to see the progress and ask what's going on because I don't want to be with out either of my rides for very long.

 

Thanks for the compliments Bennie, I had some last minute crap come up, I did want to see Jesse run bad though.

Plus Saturday kind of got canned it seems

 

did you sell the hel camino?

 

*sigh*

Had to run another bullsh!tter off my driveway...

 

8Mike9, As Del has said I also see your point of view. I had a car in there for a while before and at first it seemed a little ridiculous on how long it took to diagnose. Then I realized just how much of a deal I got on the labor, etc. charges and it made it all worth the wait. However, no offense to Eric, Bennie, things do take a little long and that's why I have decided not to take my car there anymore. I just don't have the time to wait anymore, regardless on how much money I will save.

 

surge,surge,surge..........


well, it aint' my cadillac.

 

SURGE AT ALL SPEEDS,BUT BEST NOTICABLE AROUND 2000 RPM.

FUEL PRESSURE IS CONSTANT DURING SURGE. HAVEN'T CHECKED VACUUM WHILE UNDER POWER YET. ALSO, SWINGING IDLE NO MATTER WHERE WE PUT THE IDLE AT. THE IDLE SWINGS IN CORRALATION TO THE FUEL PRESSURE RISING AND FALLING ALONG WITH RPM SWING.

SO AT IDLE THE CONSTANTS ARE: SWINGING IDLE,SWINGING F.P.,SWINGING VACUUM. ALL THREE AT THE SAME TIME.

THE SURGE HAPPENS UNDER POWER AND THE THREE CONSTANTS ABOVE DO NOT HAPPEN...WELL, THE VACUUM HASN'T BEEN CHECKED UNDER POWER YET.

JUMP IN GIVE CLUES...NO FINGER POINTING OR BAD MOUTHING!!!!

WE NEED A FIX HERE BEFORE BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO THE IROC LIKE....ME PUTTING THE MOTOR IN A 60'S CAR

 

what do you mean "swinging" vacuum. Im guessing thats will be the "problem". you can tell a lot from a vacuum gauge

 

Meaning, whilethe car is idling, the vacuum gauge needle swings from 14lbs down to a motor stumbling 5 lbs. then back up.

idle swings with the vacuum. fuel pressure swings with both these.


but under load, the car has a surge at all speeds and the fuel pressure is steady. rpm's are steady as well. I don't know if the vacuum is steady, haven't done a test under load yet.

 

have ya checked the vacume lines and or the way they are routed?

 

I have been watching you struggle with your 89 IROC here on on TGO and I really feel for you. I have had numerous wacky problems over the years and have come so very, very close to BBQing my car just for the satisfaction of watching it burn but fortunately never did. What I have done to gain some clarity at times is parked it, covered it, and went on to other things for awhile. A bit of distance can at times uncover a problem. Sounds like the best thing for you when and if you choose to get back to it is investing in an inexpensive laptop and start data-logging it. I haven't as yet done it with mine but I will this next year. Many, Many posts suggest it as the best answer for solutions when an answer just doesn't seem to be in sight.

 

Okay,
What is basetiming set at with EST disconnected?
With EST disconnected, does the surging stop?
With EST reconnected, what is idle RPM (appx) and timing at?
Check timing with a light, not through a scantool. You can approximate the "reconnected EST timing"
With the engine fully warmed up, shut it off and disconnect the IAC connector. Restart the car. Does the surging stop?

In regards to the vacuum "swing", is it sharp/quickly swinging back and forth. or slowly, like a "sweep" ?

This is a MAF car, right?

What is voltage on the battery with the car off and not running?

What is the voltage on the battery with the car running (and surging) at idle?

Did you verify all grounds? There are 3 or 4 on each head, bundled together, is the connection to the head clean and shiny?
Is the small braided ground strap connected from the intake/head/block area on the passenger side to the firewall?

Can you check continuity (ohms) from battery to intake to block to ECM grounds (on rear of heads) to firewall? (don't check at the bolt/screw or connector, but check to a surface...i/e scrape a bit of paint and check.

Does the surging stop with the MAF disconnected?

If you'll answer every one of the above questions, I'll have a good idea of where to go next. Just quote my reply with your answers under my questions.

 

Okay,
What is basetiming set at with EST disconnected?
6 deg.
With EST disconnected, does the surging stop?
no.
With EST reconnected, what is idle RPM (appx) and timing at? 800 rpm to 1,000 rpm. i don't have my timing light here right now.
Check timing with a light, not through a scantool. You can approximate the "reconnected EST timing"
With the engine fully warmed up, shut it off and disconnect the IAC connector. Restart the car. Does the surging stop?
no.

In regards to the vacuum "swing", is it sharp/quickly swinging back and forth. or slowly, like a "sweep" ?
slow sweep.

This is a MAF car, right?
yes.

What is voltage on the battery with the car off and not running? 12.3

What is the voltage on the battery with the car running (and surging) at idle?
14.8

Did you verify all grounds? There are 3 or 4 on each head, bundled together, is the connection to the head clean and shiny?
yes.
Is the small braided ground strap connected from the intake/head/block area on the passenger side to the firewall?
yes.

Can you check continuity (ohms) from battery to intake to block to ECM grounds (on rear of heads) to firewall? (don't check at the bolt/screw or connector, but check to a surface...i/e scrape a bit of paint and check.
?

Does the surging stop with the MAF disconnected?
no.

If you'll answer every one of the above questions, I'll have a good idea of where to go next. Just quote my reply with your answers under my questions.

idle/vacuum/fuel pressure swing in open and closed loop.

 

Regarding the ground check, take your meter and put it on the neg terminal of the battery, then take the other lead and touch the block, then the firewall, then the intake, etc..and verify all are at or near "0" ohms.

Was the battery voltage a constant 14.8 when it was surging?

Can you monitor the Fuel Presure and vacuum when driving? I'd like to know if it's pulsing back and forth also.

Then,

Disconnect the vacuum line to the regulator, like when you set FP, and adjust (assume you have an adjustbale regulator?) and set to 42psi (leave unplugged), if not adjustbale, just leave it unplugged (make sure to plug the vacuum source) and try idle and drive. Monitor vacuum gauge and FP as well during this run.

Also, take a "sniff" of the Regulator when the vacuum line is unplgged, make sure it does not smell of fuel (ruptured diaphram)

My concern is with the vacuum readings you're seeing is:

Dead cylinder, due to ignition or injector (I don't think it's ignition, unless a cylinder is completely dead of spark) Iignition issues usually show as a "flutter" on weak cylinders. You could eliminate a lot of "hmmn's" here, by pulling all the plugs and looking them over. An injector cylcler (about 50 bucks) along with your FP gauge, can tell you immediately if it's an injector issue. Actron makes an inductive spark checker to check the KVA's on each wire, to let you know how good spark is...it's pricey..about a C-note, but beats plugging one of those inline checkers in.

My second concern (because of the vauum) is an intake gasket leak...worst case headgasket. When vacuum rises and falls at a somewhat methodical rate (and lower than what should be expected), usually it is because compressions being blown into an adjacent cylinder(headgasket), or being opened to atmosphere(intake gasket).

If you can eliminate the variables above, then I'd look at a compression test ( I don't think a leakdown-test is necessary, unless we pinpoint it to a headgasket).

It will probably take you less time to check the above, than it did for me to two-finger type it

 

Ready yourselves.....

Roung Two is about to begin!!!!


When this is over, We will be able to troubleshoot ANYTHING! on a tpi.



the red devil.....

 

paint your car and it will run like a dream

 

lol, I agree with Terrell, paint the car and she will run.

Anyway, good luck David with round 2. Let us know how it goes.

 

3 bad injectors thus far.......

 

get the damned svo's

 

Replace them all.

 

i wish we would have checked those when the car first came in

david 10K mile ago injector check doesnt count


lol good thing we decided to check these things

 

I can't believe it took you guys this long to check the injectors, I thought it was standard issue to check them on tpi thirdgens with problems like David's. Lol, just another reason your shop sucks and is incredibly slow.

 

rofl

 

 

Eric, why are you laughing, you work at that shop?

 

cause youve been a good customer of the waiting game

youve spent some money here about $800 under your name only thats why

also i think its funny hey there is a little truth to jokes so

its true some cars take too long oh well what can i do about it im just an automotive secretary

it just goes to show you cant have more than one person working on a car and always verify the customers work or what they have checked...no offence david

how ever the only thing i have to defend is we still have some of the cheapest rates intown for repairs. and espicially diagnostic fee of only $75 for weeks worth of work...when other shops charge a minimum of $120 and have different levels of diagnosis.

 

Lol, just another reason your shop sucks and is incredibly slow. [/B][/QUOTE]

I thank you for your comment. And I am not going to type an excuse on David's car. Porkyzilla already said enough.

For the last 2 weeks, our diagnosis efficiency has improved drastically since my new smog technician can actually do smog failure diags and various repair work. Now I can actually focus and concentrate on driveability diags where I would like to master in.

 

hey benny, can i ask when your dyno will be ready for actual dyno use? i burn my own chips now, and would like a place i can use to real time tune.

 

hopefully by the end of this month. but if you can gather at least 20 people($50 introductory rate-3 pulls) for dyno day and paid in advance it WILL happen alot sooner.

 

bennies only slow when you say "take your time" when ever I didn't say that the car was finished in 2 days or less

 

im in no rush for a dyno day, i want to make sure my engine is running properly first, no more push rod mistakes lol.

i also dont want to leave my car stranded at your shop again lol. taking up parking space.

 

Chips all around then Trav!!!

 

I thank you for your comment. And I am not going to type an excuse on David's car. Porkyzilla already said enough.

For the last 2 weeks, our diagnosis efficiency has improved drastically since my new smog technician can actually do smog failure diags and various repair work. Now I can actually focus and concentrate on driveability diags where I would like to master in. [/B][/QUOTE]


In all fairness I should apologize to you (and I do) for my comments I made awhile back. I'm really in no position to judge your shops cycle time on work, and should have worded my post in a better manner.

 

I think I am going to throw-up, all of this apologizing is making me sick. Can't we all just get along and make up, let's all kiss and hug and be friends, lol. The fact is his shop was slow every time I had a car in, that has been a while I admit, and he did give me a awesome deal on the prices which I am very grateful for and appreciate, thanks again Bennie and Eric. I am sure things are much faster now and glad to hear things are going better and more organized now as well. There, that's all I have to say and now let's put an end to this conversation.

 

lock it then, bish

 

When the car runs correctly, then it will be time for apologies or adda' boyz'....until then....hush!!!


no, i did not put the injectors in yet.

 

come on now its not at the shop anymore so some progress should be made

if it makes you feel better we had a 91 z28 here hes not on the boards but that one taht was for sale

surging during cruize, swinging idle, misfires, lack of accelleration was his problem, only thing wrong with his was injectors he had 3 bad injectors all read below 10ohms resistance.

thew in a set of ford red top 22lb's and it was a brand new car, alot more powerfull, surge went away, and no more problems that was about 2 weeks ago.

let me know if you need a hand ill come on over and help ya

 

swapped in my 22lb. injectors...runs like crap still.

surges, rough idle, not even sure if all eight are firing.


i will check the resistance on my spark plug wires next.

i am out of ideas and hate this car.

 

donate it to me.

 

ill take it

 

wasnt one of them burned i remember on your car.

well damn your car has issues ahha.....no lie in knowing that those injectors are bad an resistance check is an resistance check ahaha.

 

that thing really is from hell, almost as bad as my ride.
Did you fix the vacuum leak? What was the brand of the new injectors I didn't read through sorry.

 

either stock, or accell, which is just as bad as stock

 

wrong he used ford pink tops

 

those suck too

 

Just a thought, my car was doing something similar, erratic idle between 500-2000 rpms, it was the MAF. Have you checked it?

On another note, how do you test injectors? Forgive my ignorance I have alot to learn about this stuff.

 

My car used to do the same thing and it was the MAF that cured it. but damn it was expensive!

 

Hey Eric-

Did you come across a known good maf?

Didn't you say yours was bad?


Maybe we should still have bennie stab my wires and see what's going on with the ignition.


Too bad, those 8.8 Accell wires are bank!