I cant get this thing fired up. I have tried everything possible.the whole problem i am having is not getting fuel through those injectors..

ive swapped dizzy's, ignition control module, coil, ive bypassed the ignition box. all this to make sure i had the best spark i could get. ive unplugged, replugged the oil sending unit, hoping to bypass maybe the ecm read no pressure. the fuel pump primes, i havnt tested pressure but i cranked the afpr quite a bit to make sure. all sensors are plugged in. ive swapped the ecm as well, ive tried the stock chip, my custom chips. no codes. i have had the laptop hooked up as well. while cranking the injector pulse width always shows 0. i don't know why
.

 

All grounds hooked up?

 

does she have gas in her??

 

Do you have a test light? If so, find the ECM ground side of the injector, while cranking, it should pulse off..if not, then post back.

Also, have 12v on the injectors?

 

injectors do have 12volt. i dont know which wire comes off the ecm for injector ground. anyway to find out?

 

Grrr, yea there is, but I'd have to dig into my book to figure it out.

easiest way is to do this:

Just test one side of the injector, crank the engnie over, then test the other side of the injector.

The ECM switches the ground to light the injector off, via thE Quad Driver n the ECM..basically iot grounds the injector...to give it a negatiove on one side, and a positive on the other...which actuates it.

When sitting still, the injector has 12v to ground on both sides, that's why you need top checdk it while cranking, to see if the ground side (which will be lit by your test light) "flickers" while trying to start it...the "flicker" is/should be the ECM QD grounding that sdie of the injector.

 

want me to stick the bulb into the injector harness?

i dont have a light i use a multimeter, same thing though right? either i see no voltage or i do see voltage.

 

well check it at the injector theirs only 2 wires

 

i do and its always 12volts with ignition on.
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btw i sprayed starting fluid into the throttle body and it still wouldnt start.

 

OKay, then use you meter and crank the engnie over, one sd=ide of the injecter has to go to "0"...just watch it, meter is slower than real life, so you may just see it drop the voltage, or if you have a slide bar on you meter, it may react quicker.

Should be looking for a pulse on the ground side.

 

i just went out and bought the stupid continuity tester. i put the probe into the ground side of the injector and i put the clip to a ground on the engine. while cranking the bulb stayed lit never blinked. what does this mean?

 

I told you your gonna have to find a noid light. a test light may work but I've never tried it.

edit: seems like an LED test light would work

 

theirs no damn difference, either one is gonna tell me if its got a circuit or not. but either way. cranking=solid light.

 

just give up and sell it lol

 

could try cranking it at WOT. that should put it in clear flood mode and turn the injectors off

 

good idea. my battery is dead for the day however. i think its time to warranty it.

however, what would the point be? just to see if the light goes off?

 

yes

 

have you checked the ecm fuse by the battery

 

yup.

next question?

 

Did you swap the ignition module?Could you have a broken wire of of it?I don't remember which is the reference wire.I had the same problem on my 87 but it turned out to be the chip had slipped out some.

 

yup i swapped modules. i dont think i could have broken any wires though.

 

Is there a way to test straight off of the reference wire from the module to see if you're any pulses?

 

So you tested the injectors while cranking, but the light was NOT blinking - in other words, BOTH sides remained solid while cranking?

 

correct tony, and to steve, i did test the reference wire from the plug at the module to the other end of the harness at the ecm and i get a full circuit through the wire.

 

have you tried swapping ECMs? One of those should blink and ground out like someone said above. If it's not, then the ECM isn't telling the injectors to fire.

 

believe it or not, i borrowed an ecm from work and that didnt do a damn thing either. keep the ideas coming though eventually we will get something that i missed i hope.. what i did i unplugged the harness from an injector, and probed both wires with the light, thats the correct way right?

 

You're sure you put the distributor in with the rotor pointing at #1 with the piston at the top of the compression stroke, right?

I had a similar injector problem, which was caused by my pickup coil. The injectors won't fire and you won't see any RPM on a scan tool. Have you checked that? Edit: your first post says you tried new ones. Are you sure they are good? Just because they are new doesn't mean that they aren't broken.

The fact that it won't start with starting fluid means that you have a problem with spark. It should at least try to fire. I've driven cars into the shop by having someone sit under the hood and spray starting fluid or brakleen into the throttle body while I drove, so it definitely counts as a fuel source.

It's probably something simple. The fact that it doesn't start with ether and the fact that your injectors aren't opening definitely points at ignition electronics. Check and recheck those connections.

 

Hmm I've always got the probe that was really sharp on the end, and just poked through the wires while the injectors were attached to the fuel rail. I don't know if doing it your way would affect it or not.

Are you triple sure those grounds are tight? Every single ground wire. Loose grounds do WIERD **** to cars, including stuff like this.

Jeremy is right. I didn't catch this before but not firing when you sprayed starting fluid in there is bad, and says spark problem as well. You need three things to fire a motor - Fuel, Compression and Spark at the right time. I think you have a fuel and spark problem, which could be a ground problem.

 

Yeah, definitely check the ground cable attached to the driver's side accessory bracket, and the grounds that attach to the back of the head.

 

i know for sure those things are tight as can be. to double verify though, there is 3 grounds to the passenger head and two grounds to the drivers head correct? for setting the dizzy, i had the valve cover off, when the intake valve opened, then closed again, i checked the balancer and the line was not too far off from the timing tab, i brought that to zero and thats where i stabbed the dizzy to point at #1. i had two dizzy's and 3 ignition modules, ive tried them all i don't think, however it is possible, that they are bad. ive tested the pickup coil on both dizzy's and they are fine. i did check the rpm signal to the ecm and its fine at both ends of the harness (ecm side and module side).

good ideas guys, if you notice anything i may have done blatantly wrong, please point it out.

i realized why the bulb stayed lit. i only unplugged one plug from the injector, and because the other 3 are plugged in, i was making a 12v through the ground lol, ill double check tomorrow if the bulb blinks or not while cranking..should i leave all injectors unplugged, and just probe the ground wire and then crank it and see if it lights up or not? should i have the other end of the probe to a ground or 12v?

 

You need to leave the injectors plugged in and backprobe the wires, not sure what will happen if you try it unplugged.

That's why the noid light goes inbetween the harness and injector.

Also, if for sure no pulsing, then make sure you have distributer pulses, don't recall the wire to probe on the coil, but if no dizzy pulses, then the ECM will not fire the injectors.

Did you hook that little braided ground strap up from the intake/head to the firewall?

 

Travis,
How far away are you from Elk Grove? I know you're in Placerville but where exactly. I can probably come and help you out.

 

6602 marva ln. placerville, ca 95667

check it out on mapquest. if u think its not too far i would really appreciate it! ill buy you pizza and beer or just pizza or whatever you like.

hey mike, you saying i need to probe into the ground of the injector harness with all the injectors plugged in?

and benny, if it really comes down to it, i will have my car towed to your shop!

 

I just checked mapquest and damn dude you're like an hour away. If you can't get it started by saturday after work, I'll see if I can make it there. I'll have to ask my wife if we have anything planned for that night. I know sunday is out of the question since that's the only day i have for my family.

Travis, I definitely DON'T like cheap pizza.

 

sounds good dude!

ill buy expensive pizza!

tomorrow im gonna actually test the ground has suggested now and also, i am gonna purchase a fuel pressure tester to double check the pressure is good. thats about all i can do.

 

Do you have spark at the plugs?

 

Awesome... What a guy!

 

yup

 

brand new battery and now the motor still barely cranks, it will turn like one notch thats it.

maybe i fried my brand new starter or what? anyways now that i cant even crank it i cant test ****. who wants to buy it?

 

How much?

 

5g's

 

damn travis all that work in ur ride and it wont crank. if it was me i would've burned the car already. anyways goodluck with ur project. at least u have a fast daily driver. u planning on taking it to bennie shop?

 

the starter got fried lol. it cranks now again. back to stage one.

 

after talking with will's brother, it basically comes down to my car not getting the rpm signal for god knows why. and because of that, the injectors are not firing.

what i still dont get though is when i probe the injector ground, i get voltage??

 

hey benny, if its at all possible u can make it up here tomorrow, please give me a call on my cell, or at work. 530-391-4624 (cell) or 530-626-9191 (work)

thanks man!

 

The voltage you're seeing is coming from the fuse panel, INJ1 and INJ2. That runs up and to one side of the injector harness. The other side of the plugs are also all hooked to gether and go to the ECM, then that circuit sit open, waiting for the quad driver to fire, and when it does, it brings that side of the harness to a "logic low", effectively a ground...so then you have one side of the injector that has power, the other side grounded, then the injector "fires".


As I mentioned up top, you have to have the ditributor pulse to allow the ECM to fire the injector, that's what Wills brother was saying by reference pulses.

If I'm reading my schematic right, it will be pin B5 (purple wire with a white stripe) on the ECM coming from the 4pin connector off the ignition module, pin C (red wire)...I think you're MAF, right (165 ECM?) If so, shuold be correct.

Someone mentioned it before also, about clearflood mode, this is triggered by TPS voltage and cranking speed, could be yuor TPS volatge is above the voltage needed to trigger it, I don't know what that voltage is, probably 3.5volts or higher...so check the TPS volatge as well, to make sure it's in the .54 range.

 

my tps voltage reads a little high, i belive .60volts, thanks to me raising the idle screw on the throttle body, i will bring that back down tomorrow for the hell of it.

i did backprobe the b5 pin, and i ran all the damn tests with it plugged in at the module and without it, all possibilities. that wire is fine. i want to check the plug though at the module. should be fine as well though since with it backprobed into the ecm harness, i get 12volts. but when cranking, it drops to almost nothing. about .2volts or so, which i believe is normal.

 

Hmmn, I've not checked voltage like that before, buy I looked at mt ECM pinout ni my manual, it sayd key on shuould be "0" and 1.6v while running---assume cranking should show similar.

Did you check continuity (ohms) from B5 to the ICM?

 

you know what, ive done soo much today im not surpised if i mixed up my wording. i checked voltage, ohms and a/c. lol i do remember something like 5.3 at key on, and while cranking .2

im confident the wire is fine though, all tests pointed at a good wire. except when it comes to cranking then its not getting ****.

 

Travis,
Can you tow it to the shop? We have plans after work on saturday. And also it will be easier for me since all my tools are there. I would hate driving an hour and forget something I need to diagnose. I have a U-haul trailer available if you need one. Got a truck to tow it with? Give me a call on my cell or work today. Maybe we can arrange something.
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By the way, wherever i work on it, it will only cost you a pizza and soda. If some other TGO members show up at the the shop I guess you be buying few XL pizzas and sodas