I met a gent at the track with a thirdgen a couple of weeks ago ...and i have been trying to understand how the heck he is running a 10.5 with this setup


ZZ4 crate motor
stock .474/.510 ...208/221@.50 112LSA camshaft
stock 113 casteing heads ( 58 cc ) with porting ( he says a little )
10:1 flattop forged pistons
4.56 gears in a moser 12 bolt.....but 30" tall tires
dual plane intake
Holley 750 double pumper

no nitrous , no charger , no turbo

I seen it run .....man it was sweet ......so smooth I could have driven it home . The guy just kept laughing as I burned braincells as to why he was getting these wicked times

 

I would bet money on the fact that he is pulling your leg - there's no way that engine will go 10.5's in a third gen.

 

I seen the outside of it ......... and alll I really could tell about it for sure was ....

it had a dual plain intake ......and it was a smalllblock .....and they were the 113 casteings ( stock ZZ4 heads ) .

and I did see the track times

 

How do you know the casting number of his heads? They are located under the valve covers. In any case, it is not physically possible for a stock ZZ4 engine to get a third gen anywhere near 10.50's (naturally aspirated). Sorry, this guy was taking you for a ride.

I believe that the car ran those times. I just don't believe he was telling you the truth about his engine.

 

Perhaps a fogger system plumbed under the intake.

 

The car weighs 1500lbs.

 

it might just be me but i get the feeling he's not telling you something..<----

 

Even if it weighed 1500 lbs, a stock zz4 motor isnt going to make the torque to justify a 30" tall slick, let alone make one spin.

 

And the zz4 has hyp. pistons, so if it has forged pistons that tells you right there that the engine has been apart. I am guessing it is some crazy stroker motor / nitrous motor.

I would bet it is some crazy stroker motor, and the additional displacement masks the sound of a larger cam.

 

Welll ..... he told me ( now I feal really dumb )

but ...... ya I agree that the motor has been apart with ....him saying it has forged pistons ........ but I never seen any solinoids .... extra fuel lines or anything under the hood . It was pretty clean .



I am starting to believe it is some crazy stroker motor . Just think he was selling it for around 18'000 . I wish I would have gotten his number . He says it was a registered NHRA car ...... frig I wish I had a way of looking for a picture of it on the net ...kinda like a mug shot ..... becasue I could pick it out noooo problem . Thanx for the feedback all ....... I just thought there was some nasty seceret to makeing gobs of power ....... I was running his cam ...and same pistons ...same C/R ...... sure my heads ain't aluminum ....but they had work done to them


thanx again

 

Just to show the lengths people will go to build a sleeper motor, a friend of mine is having camel humps machined onto the front of a set of dart 230cc raised runner heads that flow close to 320 cfm on intake .

 

I'm not saying his motor was 100% legit... but has anyone ever read up on the crate motor class cars? They disected one in an old issuse of HOT ROD. It was a 1st Gen Camaro w/ a Fast Burn 385 motor... ran in the 10's IIRC. If I can dig up that old isssue - you can bet your *** I will post it.

Another thing to consider is Stock Eliminator cars, they launch like a SOB & ET crazy w/ sub par MPH.

 

I've seen that article in Hot Rod with that 1st gen running 10's. I don't have it with me (here in college).

 

But the specs he quoted are nowhere near a stocker and that's how they make most of their power.

Personally I think he's pulling your leg about what he's got. The car either needs to weigh below 2500 pounds (not likely) or has a hidden NOS system in it or is really a huge SBC 434 etc. They make a cool NOS system now that hides inside the air cleaner. You can also hide it inside the intake manifold.

I could tell everyone my engine is only a 396 and there's no real way anyone can prove it without a teardown.

 

Swamp land in Florida comes to mind!!!!

 

The suspension, converter, tranny stuff that makes a stocker fly will really make a hotter motor crank. At the just completed Dutch Classic at Maple Grove both Brian Van Poppel and Dave Casey set new national records with their 305 stockers at 10.91 and 10.98 respectively. Put a bigger cam in the same car with a better carb and intake and take a wild guess at how much more they might pick up. And 30" tires aren't the et killer you might think. Last year I ran 4.56's and tried a 30" tall radial slick in place of my bias 28's for couple passes. Barely any et difference at all, keep in mind a radial slick won't grow like a bias one plus they're worth a tenth over bias as well comparing equal size tires.

 

I agree with having the car set up right, but you still have to have xxx amount of horsepower to get a certin et for a particular weight car. No?

 

I be thinking he was full of it ....thanx all



I just had to know how the heck he got that thing sooooo fast ........like I am sure the HP is through the to run 10's I figured I had a chance if I had this "magic" seceret

 

Think about this. Those guys ran 1.9's with a 305 at just over 3000 lbs. Add 45 cubes, better intake, bigger cam, port work to heads (not allowed in stocker motors), better larger carb, etc and wouldn't you agree the 4 tenths better is vety reasonable if his car is class ready as he states?

 

ya we call that lying around here

 

Then it wouldnt be a zz4 engine would it?

 

So you're now saying the ZZ4 350 isn't 45 inches bigger than a 305?!? And the ZZ4 cam isn't bigger than the smaller cam in the 305? And the 750 carb isn't bigger than the 650 cfm q-jet we have to run? And the aftermarket intake isn't better than the stock one we have to run? And you're forgetting the guy was said to have admitted a touch of port work, something we aren't allowed to do at all in Stock. All this stuff adds a bunch to torque output, and like I said, if you couple the better sorted car to this motor you don't believe that 4 tenths is reasonable? And this is assuming he's at equal wt, if he's 100 or 200 lbs less there's a tenth for each 100. Makes the 4 tenths even easier to pick up.

 

The way you worded it I thought you meant take a zz4, add 45 cubic inches to it, a bigger cam and port work. My bad.