It would be auto (V8 91-92years) vs V6 (manual trans)
Who would win? I don't have anyone around here to race that owns a v6. So, i'm just curious to see what you guys think.

My friend who is a mechanic at a chevy dealer says the V6 will smoke me, but i told him i didn't think it would. He said because i was auto i would lose. But, he said that if it were auto vs auto he doesn't know who would win. So, i'm just looking for an opnion here. I know i should get out and race one, but no body around here races a v6 unless it turbo or SC.

 

Given that both of you really do know how to drive, the stick will prevail. It has better power at the rear wheels because of the ratios and the fact that in a manual, there is less to turn. IE: oilpump, torque converter, things like that.

------------------
'82 Firebird, dead stock, 9 bolt disc rear, over 200,000 miles and still going strong, more to come...

 

If its a 3.4 it will be an extreme beat down... you will win by at least 6 cars. A 3.8 5 speed would actually rather even, the 3.8 is a tough little motor. Just mod your car and he won't stand a chance. I wouldn't even waste gas on any N/A V6, but my car isn't stock.

------------------
91 Trans Am WS6
Bright White
5.0 TPI auto
Flowmaster 3" 2 chamber catback
Trans Go shiftkit
2000 stall converter

supposed 'peanut cammed' car (yeah, right)

Built on Wednesday

 

If it is the TPI 305 you would have a good chance at beating it. If its a TBI you could probably forget about it.

The 3.8L V6 with a manual would crush a 305 TBI. A 3.4L manual vs. a TBI auto would be close.

However, with the TPI 305 the 3.8L should be a good race. A TPI 305 should easily beat the 3.4L.

------------------
Luke
94 Saturn SL (1.9L)
86 Camaro Berlinetta (5.0L) *TPI 350 In Progress*
Berlinetta Board Mod @3rdgen.org
Non-Tech Mod @LG4 Performance Team

 

All 91/92 Z28s and Trans Ams are TPI.

 

not true! my friend has a 92 305 tbi trans am...checked vin it is a stock 305tbi t/a

------------------
Flowmaster 80 series, Random Technologies Cat, 3" intermediate pipe, SS
Hand Made Tips, 3 1/4" out, Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Coil, MSD Ignition Module,MSD 6A Box, Air Intake Temp Guage, Brushed Aluminum Hood Pins
Currently Working On:
T5 swap
Next to buy:
Slp dual cold air intake!
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

 

Definately is not a T/A. Check the VIN again.

 

i did it on here and he paid for carfax!

------------------
Flowmaster 80 series, Random Technologies Cat, 3" intermediate pipe, SS
Hand Made Tips, 3 1/4" out, Accel 8.8 wires, MSD Coil, MSD Ignition Module,MSD 6A Box, Air Intake Temp Guage, Brushed Aluminum Hood Pins
Currently Working On:
T5 swap
Next to buy:
Slp dual cold air intake!
-------------------------
My Site:
www.geocities.com/firebird89white

 

That's nice. It's still not a T/A. Carfax is infamous for screwing things up. It reported my VIN F 305 TPI Trans Am as having a TBI 305.

 

Check the fifth digit of the VIN all Trans Ams and GTAs (an option of the T/A model) have a "W", no other car does.

 

As you can see in my sig, I own both a 3rd Gen 305 and a 4th Gen 3800 V6. My 305 has a 700r4 and my 3800 has a T-5. There is no doubt that my 96 devestates my 305 from a standing start. But accelerating from highway speed, say 60 up to wherever, the 305's extra two cylinders have a little more torque and is quicker. I never turn down a race with a 5.0 F-body when I'm driving the 3800. It is a shoo-in.



------------------
88 Trans AM
305 TPI
WS6

96 Camaro
3.8L V-6
SCCA GSP Class Terror

 

I agree that the 3.8L T-5 car will give a 305 TPI a tough time. I once raced a friend who has a 3.4L auto. My timing was retarded to about 8-10* ATDC, and even then we were dead even all the way through 2nd. I fell behind once I shifted into 3rd because his higher rev range allowed him to still pull in second. It was a close race. Since then my car's gotten a tune up and been retimed to 6* BTDC. Now it drives like it should, and I'm absolutely positive that it'll easily tear apart a 3.8L.

Sounds like a bit much but I've run against quicker cars and beat them. My best was a 94 Z28 that I took down when my car was consuming a tank of gas every three days just driving around town. Don't ask me how but it was close. We were dead even but I pulled ahead after I hit 3rd gear. Something was badly screwed up then. The SES light was always on but the car was very quick. It slowed down a hell of a lot after I got it fixed.

------------------
'88 IROC 305 TPI
Crappy 700R4 slushbox
Gutted airboxes
180 degree T-stat
Advanced base TPS voltage
Relocated IAT sensor
Momo steering wheel
Ram-air setup coming soon
Flowmaster muffler
Taylor SpiroPro wires
Accel cap and rotor
Cars I've beat: '94 Z28, Olds Aurora V8, a few Mustangs, ricers, and a few others who thought they could beat a 'lowly' 3rdgen.

[This message has been edited by 88irocz28 (edited January 01, 2001).]

 

I haven't seen a 305TPI car on the road, anyways, keep up with any 4th gen Z, assuming it isn't a V6 with Z badges. The numbers just don't add up. That is a heavily modified 305 to even give a newer Z a race, regardless if it had a Lenco.



------------------
Dan Young
1995 Z28/M6
Groton, CT

1985 Z28/A4
(Prospective purchase)

 

I'm sorry, but i just cant see a 4th gen 3.8 5 spd stomping me from a stoplight. I have an '88 5.0 GTA, and i'll be damned if a 3.8 has ever beat me. Of course i HAVE done a little modding to my engine, and correct me if i'm wrong, but even in stock form, dont the 305's make more torque than a 6-banger? with that 285 lbs of torque (or whatever i had stock), i dont see the V6 winning off the line. just my $.02

------------------
1988 Pontiac GTA 5.0 TPI
-K&N Filter
-Hypertech Air Foil
-Hypertech Perf. Chip
-2.5in Flowmaster Muffler

Kills
-94 Probe GT
-95 Mustang GT
-86 Trans Am 305 TPI
-96 Impala SS
-85 Thunderbird 5.0
-95 Thunderbird 4.6
-95 Accord
-80 Mustang Cobra
-98 Integra VTEC

[This message has been edited by 5.0GTA (edited January 02, 2001).]

 

How bout a Grand National or a TTA??

There 2 3.8's that could smash ya

------------------
1991 Firebird Formula, 305, TPI, Auto...stock till I get some money!!!
Former owner of an 88 2.8 Firebird....RIP

 

lol, ok...let me rephrase what i meant...I can't see any N/A 3.8 beating me off the line. better?

------------------
1988 Pontiac GTA 5.0 TPI
-K&N Filter
-Hypertech Air Foil
-Hypertech Perf. Chip
-2.5in Flowmaster Muffler

Kills
-94 Probe GT
-95 Mustang GT
-86 Trans Am 305 TPI
-96 Impala SS
-85 Thunderbird 5.0
-95 Thunderbird 4.6
-95 Accord
-80 Mustang Cobra
-98 Integra VTEC

 

Meangreen, I know the car I raced wasn't a V6 with Z badges - I can tell a V6 from a V8. I've been around cars too long not to. I was filling up at a gas station when this dude came upto me. He was like nice car, then wagered $100 on a race. I told him to get lost because I was sure I'd lose. Finally he agreed to go at it just for kicks. He probably lost because he had two passengers (but then I was also carrying a full tank of fuel - he didn't fill up at all). His top end advantage was apparent because just before every gear change he gained significantly on me. I guess the extra weight he was carrying slowed him down enough in 3rd for me to pull ahead. He let go as soon as I started pulling ahead, but I know if we had stayed on it, I would have taken him down by a bigger margin. The reason I was faster that night also could have been the fact that my car was fresh out of its previous owner's hands and guzzling gas like it was going out of style. I can safely say that there was something wrong with it that could have made it faster. Like i said before it slowed down a lot when I got it fixed up, but a recent tune up restored a whole lot of missing power also.

------------------
'88 IROC 305 TPI
Crappy 700R4 slushbox
Gutted airboxes
180 degree T-stat
Advanced base TPS voltage
Relocated IAT sensor
Momo steering wheel
Ram-air setup coming soon
Flowmaster muffler
Taylor SpiroPro wires
Accel cap and rotor
Cars I've beat: '94 Z28, Olds Aurora V8, countless Mustangs, ricers, and others who think they can trounce a 'lowly' 3rdgen.

 

I beat a Lt1 Z28 but he didnt know how to drive.

All Show and no Go.



------------------
60 Ranchero - Project ( Money Hole )
85 Sport Coupe LG4 - Daily Driver

Livin' the Stereotype

 

i have to confess... i have been beaten a couple times by the 3.8 camaros..

i raced around 10 of them so far.. beat around 7 of them

and i'm stuck with the 205 hp lb9, 3.08 gears, and the extra weight of being a convertible.. only mod done to it is k&n filters.. i do have a 5spd though..


but when i look at a regular 91z with a 5.0, you have 230hp, 300 ft-lbs of torque, and only around 100lbs of extra weight. the 3.8 is 200 hp i think, and I know it's not close to 300 ft-lbs of torque.. so looking at that the 91z 5.0 should win easily...

but then again, the 3.8 probably revs alot higher.. which makes up for the lower torque.

i drove a couple of them and they don't seem to put you in the seat.. except for my friends.. he has a 3.4 with a supercharger from I think it was a bonneville ssei on his camaro.. that car will move

 

mr j, there very well could be a 305 tbi in a t/a, it was a delete down option. the base motor was the 305tpi , but if some one wanted the look of the t/a but couldn't afford or just didn't want the performance they could knock all kinds of stuff off the option sheet to spend less cash. there are even a few examples of t/a that are 305tbi with manual windows and locks, and one legger rears.

lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

 

Believe me guys if u put a 3.90's on rear of your Z28 thirdgen Camaro and if your powerplant is a 383 giving out around 420 horses you will definitely beat out not only a V6 4th gen but a v8 4th gen. AND WITH AN AUTOMATIC TRANNY! I have a Chevy Nova with good mods and they have kicked some brand new V8 tush! Now imagine a 86 Z28 Camaro with less weight and stumping power.

------------------
Big 454 '86 Camaro Z28 '72 Nova w/454 BBC

 

I beat a v-6 camaro 4th gen on the highway pretty easily, not sure what kind it was though.

------------------

Mods:Hooker Aerochamber 3" exhaust, gutted kitty,
March 2 piece underdrive pullies, smog pump gone,
14x4 K&N, 3.42 gears,
Eibach springs with KYB's all around.
Appearance: Harwood cowl hood, Z-28 wing, painted black(7/20/00)-original color was light blue
*All these mods were made this year
Stock Options:120,000 miles on motor, 5spd, TBI, 305, T-tops
Run a best of 16.7 @85mph before gears

 

I've seen a 4th Gen 3.8 V6 with a few mods make just over 200 hp at the rear wheels on a dyno.

The 3.8 V6 is probably easier to get 200hp at the rear wheels out of than a TBI car is.

This 3.8 would have crushed many stock 3Gen's not just TBI cars or older carb cars either. 305 auto TPI's would have problems with it. 5-speed TPI would have been pretty good match.

The guy had times slips in the high 14's

The 3.8 had killed quite a few 96-98 Mustangs.

So it's really going to depend on the mods...

 

Let me dig this up and add my comments.

I did quite a bit of 3rd gen 305 TPI auto vs 4th gen V6 racing, as my best friend had a mildy modded 3.4 5spd and a mutual friend had a stock 96 3.8l auto.

Stock, my 87 305 TPI auto took them both out (3.4 was stock then too) consistently. THe 3.4 was left standing by myself and the 3.8, but I beat the 3.8 fairly 3/4 of the time. The races were launch dependant really, me having the race to win or lose w/ my launch. My 85 IROC that I had had prior to the 87 would have whipped both hardcore however, it was noticeably faster than the 87 (better cam in 85)

Then, the 3.4l added a Tbyrne F1 cat-back, a high flow cat, and a K&N Cold air induction kit (not just the filter you know, the new intake elbow, piping, and new mount location w/ a big ole K&N filter). The biggest SOTP addition was the K&N CAI kit believe it or not. The intake is pretty rigged on those cars and that cleared it up. Anyway, after those mods him and the 3.8 were like dead even and again I won most of the time, I had to flub my launch to lose. I then ported the plenum and tuned the TPS sensor, etc and beat them both decently. Then I got my 86 IROC w/ the 305 TPI auto, flowmaster cat-back, ADS chip, added the mild cam, ported the plenum and threw in 3.42s and destroyed them both hardcore. That was actually extremely funny but is neither here nor there as I would definitely expect to win there... I never raced a 5spd 3.8l w/ the stockisk 305 although stock I feel it probably would have edged me out. My car didn't run very well from the start, alot of it was tuning though, as I didn't know what I was doing w/ it then.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

 

What about this.
305 TBI automatic, Hypertech thermomaster chip, OE 14x3 intake, street and strip shift kit, catback flowmaster exhaust with hi flow catco cat

VS.

96 3.8 Camaro w just a flowmaster and its automatic

 

When I was 100% stock (and in need of a desparate tune up) I raced a 98 5speed 3.8l from a red light. I murdered him all the way to 80mph where I let off. Let me tell you, I couldn't race my car worth crap back then either . I left the line with a lot of wheelspin and shifted at the wrong RPMs.

Now....well...now I don't even waste my time on the LS1s


(unless they are heavily modified too hehe)

------------------
91 Formula
305 TPI 5speed
1LE/G92/WS6

Paxton SN93, SLP airfoil, ported/polished plenum, March pulleys, Crane AFPR(43psi),Crane Gold 1.6rrs,MSD coil,MSD6AL, Holley 9mm wires, fastchip, Bosch O2sensor, Bosch in-line pump(w/stock pump), SLP headers & catback,short shifter,3:73s w/Auburn posi,170* t-stat,JET 195* fan switch, Macewen white face gauges, Autometer gauges, Zoom hi-performance clutch.

 

Ok I have to put my comments in on this one because I recently had an experience with this. A guy that lives on my hall here at Clemson University has a '96 3.8 5 speed camaro. The only thing he has done to it is an SLP cold air induction and Flowmaster catback. And let me tell you this thing surprised me with how fast it was. I'm not saying he beat me but he damn sure did a good job. I pulled on him all the way when we went at it but I also have a slightly modded 350 and 6 speed. On the autocross course was another thing though. We ran almost identical times on our best runs which really surprised me. He does have 17x9.5 ZR1 style wheels though so that probably makes a considerable difference in handling but I didn't think he could keep up with me still. Maybe it's just that it was my first autocross too but I don't know. All I'm saying is the 3.8 5 speeds will surprise you with how quick they are.

------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, McLeod street clutch, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Holley Annihilator ignition box and wires, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Kenny Brown STB, Global West steering box brace, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember

 

I have an 87 305 tpi, basically stock with full msd ignition(box got stolen). My brother used to have a 99 v6, and it was a pretty good race sometimes. Before I did the ignition on my car he would pull ahead a little, but afterward I could beat him if I got a good start and didn't spin much. My friends 3.8 manual mustang was about even with my brothers camaro, until he put a 3.42 auborn limited slip in. I never raced him after that, but he could spin the tires pretty easily in his 3.8 auto. He has an LS1 now, I don't think Im gonna race him

 

I know a stupid little junior in my high school, anyway he has a v6 and the automatic. he is all talking that his v6 is more powerful than v8s. anyway just to shut him up, i burn past him with full posi and smoke 10 yards long, while he can't even do a powerstand.