AMAXRX

So as always, I create a new thread with caution...

That being said, I have looked at a lot of threads and still have not been able to come up with an answer here.

I am setting up my car for ESP autocross/ street use. Many people suggest going to spherical/rod ends on the PHB and LCA's and do LCARBS. However... I saw these entries in the 2012 SCCA SP rules.

"I. Solid axle suspension allowances:
1. Addition or replacement of suspension stabilizers (linkage connecting
the axle housing or De Dion to the chassis, which controls
lateral suspension location) is permitted.
2. Traction bars or torque arms may be added or replaced.
3. A panhard rod may be added or replaced.
4. The upper arm(s) may be removed, replaced, or modified, and the
upper pickup points on the rear axle housing may be relocated.
5. The lower arms may not be altered, except as permitted under
15.8.C, or relocated."

I don't know whether our LCA's are considered an upper or lower arm. Whether or not they can be relocated would kind of depend on this distinction.

Now about rod ends/spherical bushings...

"C. Suspension bushings may be replaced with bushings of any materials
(except metal) as long as they fit in the original location. Offset
bushings may be used. In a replacement bushing the amount
of metal relative to the amount of non-metallic material may not be
increased. This does not authorize a change in type of bushing (for
example ball and socket replacing a cylindrical bushing), or use of
a bushing with an angled hole whose direction differs from that of
the original bushing. If the Stock bushing accommodated multi-axis
motion via compliance of the component material(s), the replacement
bushing may not be changed to accommodate such motion
via change in bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or
similar component involving internal moving parts. Pins or keys may
be used to prevent the rotation of alternate bushings, but may serve
no other purpose than that of retaining the bushing in the desired
position. Differential mount bushings are not considered to be suspension
bushings and are not covered by this allowance."

Any input from those running in ESP would be appreciated.

AlkyIROC

All that right there says that your factory rubber bushings in a stock LCA can be upgraded to a poly bushing but you can't upgrade to heim joints or modify/replace the factory LCA. That means you're not even allowed to box the LCA.

You can't use LCARB because that falls under relocating the LCA.

The panhard bar can be replaced to something from the aftermarket but would still need to use rubber or poly bushings.

AMAXRX

Seems like a questionable rule. Most cars in this class can lower ride height without issue, but without being able to install LCARB's I would be tempted to say it isn't even a good idea to loose ride height. Good thing our cars are fairly low to begin with.

Guess the rules cant be too biased tho, considering that a 3rd gen has been winning ESP nationals for the last 5 years or so...

AlkyIROC

Third gens were designed for road course racing so the factory setup is already a good platform to start with unlike other types of cars. There will always be advantages or disadvantages with different types of cars. Being able to perform within a specific set of rules may not let you run a setup you would prefer to use. Some types of cars dominate different classes because they fit within a set of rules better.

Change what you can change within rules. If anything is questionable, contact the sanctioning body for a specific clarification. They're the ones who will have the final say on what you can or can't do.

AMAXRX

Fair enough. I have no intention of trying to sneak something past an inspector, just trying to not end up in CP.

Thanks for the feedback.

Out of curiosity... what does an 87 IROC with a 588 run? Sounds impressive.

AlkyIROC

When it still had a 582, I ran a 9.0 at 150 MPH. With the 588, I put it right up on the back bumper twice without being able to make a full pass. It should be in the mid to high 8's and that's running at a track that sits around 2300 feet above sea level.

No power adders. All engine running on injected methanol. I guess I should have put my sig file on the earlier posts.

You can do a search on youtube or streetfire.net for alkyiroc to see a bunch of my videos

AMAXRX

Looked up those videos. Wicked car! Looking forward to seeing how she runs with the wheelie bars.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

One Highly developed 3rd gen that would usually trophy in CP. Other then that one car, Nationally competitive 3rd gens are pretty rare. Just cant compete with the HP of the newer F bodies and Mustangs. That one car has been around years before I became a member of the SCCA in 2000 and is allways undergoing changes to make it faster.

slow305

iTrader: (2)

I honestly think the lower weight of the thirdgen and low-end torque will still keep them competitive with the newer cars. After all, fire-breathing LS1s and new 5.0s still have to put that power down ... through the same size tires most of us are using.

Pat, who coned away second place in ESP at the 2011 Solo Nationals

FlyDoc

with SCCA rules one of the 1st thing's is not to over-think the rules.
I could not cut and paste, so just put blurbs.
by what I found,
the answer is NO, but you can relocate the mounting point.

draft 2013.
15.2 body
C 3
the lower suspension pickup points must be with in 2" of stock location.
15.8
C can be changed to any material other than metal.(can not machine a solid "bushing")
does not authorize change to ball and socket type,....

stock bushing accommodated muti-axis motion via compliance of component material(s), the replacement bushing may not be changed to accommodate such motion via change in bushing type, for example to a spherical bearing or similar.....

AMAXRX

Fortunately I am not ready to lower my car, so I will check on the specific issue with someone at an event. I went ahead and got a double adjustable poly PHB.

I will try and post when I get that question answered.

BumpaD82

Are rod ends CP LEGAL ?

rayar

iTrader: (1)

Yes. In fact you could do a complete custom front and rear suspension with non stock pick up points. I built a 3 link for the rear of mine. Just make sure you read the rules carefully because one wrong or misplaced cut will knock you into the tube frame allowance with a 10% weight penalty.

rayar

iTrader: (1)

BTW, Many have had trouble with Poly LCA control arm bushings binding the rear suspension. I had poly in my stock reinforced LCA's and it seemed to work fine but ran very stiff springs in the rear(anywhere from 300-500 lb) so had minimal body roll. I later modified the stock arms to accept a rod end on one side. Not sure what you can do now that you ordered them.