Refined throttle feel is super important with autocross so you can manage throttle and traction on the edge. Throttle will become more mushy, less predictable, less linear with a higher stall converter. I think axle gear swap is better solution to put your engine in the rpm range you want to be at while on the course.

 

Hey, looks like SCCA has a deal where you can add someone else's member number as a coupon code, I save $15 and you save $5. Anyone willing to share their SCCA member number? Here or via PM if you prefer that...

 

Couple pics of my current engine setup. Plan to reuse the intake...

 

So, I understand some are saying changing my rear end gear should be my first change, to get out of slow corners a bit quicker, but I can't help but think a slightly higher stall converter would be at least equally as helpfull, possibly easier to install and it wouldn't have as significant of downsides.

I ran the math and going from my stock 3.23 gear to a 3.41, and it wouldn't be much difference for the effort, but going up to a 3.83, or 4.10, would bring my cruising rpm too high for my highway driving.

My torque converter research found that my stock converter has a 1397 stall, which explains why I have a hart time accelerating from sharp slow turns, especially with my stealth ram intake that sacrafices low end torque for higher speed power... I also found that I can get the factory or reman converter from a 98-04 S-10 or Blazer and I'll up the stall to 2075. These can be had for around $150, which sounds like very low hanging fruit to me if it helps!

What are all your thoughts???

 

not a bad price, but if you have some extra money to have a converter built, that would be the way I would go. Could also benefit from a smaller diameter converter package too as the factory ones are big in diameter. When i still had my 305 TPi and 700R4 and raced autocross events I had both a big diameter 2800 rpm B&M converter that was 12" or so in diameter; which was a heavy unit. Then later a 3400 rpm edge racing converter which was 9 or 9.5" in diameter. I'm aware that there is no apples-to-apples comparison between any of my stuff and my car compared to yours, but if it were me I would be looking for a smaller diameter converter that can be built/matched to your overall powertrain combination. A good converter company will spend time with you on the phone asking about tire height, rear gear, cam, driving style, etc and come up with a scientific answer to your converter question.

Gears are also a great option. A gear swap (while involved) can be beneficial, but also keep in mind that you will need to re-do your speedometer gear/calibrations.

 

Yea the issue of having to change the speedo gears was also in my mind. I have heard that the smaller converters are beneficial but the lowest stall 9.5-10" converters seem to be a 2200-2400 stall which I feel like could be a bit too high while still wanting to be able to drive causally on nice summer days to work and such, again which requires a good amount of highway driving. That's why I liked the idea of the cheap S-10 one.

What stall did you like best for auto crossing? I see you drag race also... Is your car still street driven? What would the downsides be to a 2200-2400 stall converter while street/highway driving?

Here are the options I'm seeing on Summit: (Doesn't show it but the TCI is the only 2200 stall, Which I feel could be my best bet, but it's over 4 times the price compared to the S-10 one... Is there that big a difference between a 12" and a 10"?)

 

Seems you have done some good thinking and research on the topic so thats awesome. I wish I had more technical knowledge on converters and converter selection, but there are others on this board who can certainly provide more insight. In looking back to those converter combinations I had with the 305, I think the car was woke-up the most with the smaller diameter 9.5" 3400 edge racing. My car is ONLY street driven, and for all these years it has never been trailered to/from a race or any event. Even the 3400 converter was very streetable. That only changed when I put this current engine in.

 

I found the following explanation from Sofakingdom:
"A smaller converter, at ay given stall speed, will always give better results. A large converter has a wide band of RPM between "slip" and "hooked up"; a smaller one is easier to make act like a switch, where it's completely loose up to a point, then when that point is reached, suddenly it becomes almost metallic. Again, a trade-off, that YOU have to decide where along all the various continua you want to live."

Referenced Explaination Post

As I interpret this explanation, he is saying the smaller diameter converters are better for drag strip acceleration, because the rpm comes up quick and power hits like a switch.

But, considering the needs of autocross, I'd think a larger (full size) converter would actually be best. It would give the smoother more progressive engagement, but would start at a higher rpm, to more effectively get into the power band.

 

That's probably why you're going to get a lot of recommendations to work with a company that can build you a custom one so it's ideal for your application.

 

OR...Go manual. For autocross, they are a lot better, the amount you can predictably throttle steer is amazing. For any other use, the auto is as good or better but for low speed hard cornering, the throttle control factor is the bomb. Auto's are squishy and deaden throttle response.

 

Yea, I have considered doing the manual swap... It always just seemed like a huge project to undertake...

Are we talking about something like this kit?
82-92 Camaro/Firebird NEW Magnum T56 6-Speed Conversion Kit, Small Block Carb, TPI, or any SBC or BBC - Hawks Third Generation (hawksmotorsports.com)

Would I want the T56 6 speed, or is the TKX 5 speed good
82-92 F-Body Tremec TKX 5-Speed Conversion Kit - Hawks Third Generation (hawksmotorsports.com)

A question your comment brings to mind, is that if I do get a higher stalling torque converter, does that mean I won't get any trans braking below that stall speed? Where if I lift, I'll just roll instead of slow down until brakes are applied? And secondly, is that really a problem?

I have actually been doing a TON of torque converter research and have found one that I believe to be a great deal and just about what I want. Transtar GM18HP-HP is a 12 inch converter which should keep the feeling less light switch'ey. It's got a stall of around 2000 rpm, a brazed turbine and impeller, and a flanged impeller hub, which I think is what they usually call an anti ballooning plate. It has a Kevlar lockup clutch, which is the premium material compared to the regular paper ones used on our years. (Thought I still have not been able to confirm if there are issues with using the carbon fiber clutches intended for the later pulse width modulated autos. I am pretty confident we cannot use the even later woven carbon lock up clutches from the even newer EC3 transmissions) All this four around $250!
GM18A_GM15-TC-0617.pdf (transtar1.com)

 

I'm currently in the middle of what is perhaps the longest 5 speed conversion in history. I went with a TKX. Before my camaro I had never autocrossed a car with an automatic more than once. Manual trans is much better for instantaneous throttle response. It adds to fun factor too. I'm heating up the garage now to do today's part of the swap. This sort of thing goes better in the summer if you live in the northern half of the country.

 

The more I think about it, the idea behind this project is to minimize costs. I'm feeling like changing out a few hundred-dollar torque converter is much more in line with my plans than a $5000 manual swap... I hate to say it, but once I determine its going to take significant investment to proceed further in my racing endeavors, I'll probably upgrade to a more modern (and potentially competitive) car...

 

Plans? What's a plan? I don't know what that word means.

My approach is it's a hobby car and I use hobby money. Each year I do the same again, just hobby money. Sometimes it's a little, sometimes it's more, depends how I'm feeling about it. But after years of this you've actually done a lot of things. But you gotta want to keep the vehicle or you just end up upside down when you sell and somebody else gets to enjoy all that money and hard work you put into the car. But if you keep the car then it was all just a hobby and you never spent more than you wanted on hobby stuff.

You have no idea how many times I've dreamed of a newer, nicer, better car. But my wife tells me every time, You'd be bored without that car. And she's right. I'd get bored without something to tinker on, fix, and improve because it's the hobby.

 

The easiest way to fast lap times is probubly a manual trans Mazda Miada and a good set of tires. But I dont know if it would be the most fun. If you move to a more Compeitive car, for example a c5 z06 ,you will be competing with other corvettes and again it comes down to tires and driver. I do understand the desire to move to a more modern and reliable car, thats what I did . But I'm old, and while I don't miss the busted knuckles from working on the Camaro ,I do miss the fact that it was one of a kind and that I made it that way. My corvette Grand Sport is a great car but it is just another corvette. Another thing to consider is that the MODERN car is a whole different can of worms. Electronic are great when they work and a new learning experiance when thy don't .

 

All valid prospectives, and certainly worth considering.

I think for this year at least, I'm going to just keep racing, learning, and upgrading smaller more manageable cost things.

Current plans for this year:
1. Articulated Rear Lower Control arms to replace my Poly/Poly ones. Still need to decide if articulation is needed at both ends or just one end is enough, and also weather adjustable is really necessary for my needs, or will be in the future... Is articulation/adjustability critical for the Panhard bar? Honestly, my rear end even after lowering seems to be about where I want it. It does not seem to be noticeably shifted to one side, and still looks centered front to back.
2. New torque converter. I had a great phone call with Edge torque converters. They explained they could make me one custom tailored to my autocross/street needs and with a stall somewhere in the 2100-2400 range it should get closer to the power band on the exit of slower turns, but also be very streetable. Consideration still ongoing weather to go with the standard 12" or upgrade to the 9.5" for the ~17 lb weight savings. Since I don't plan on dumping a lot of money into the engine for now, it may free up some power to the rear wheels by lightening the TC...it does bump the price up another $2-300 though.
2.5. I have had the thought as mentioned before of going to a higher rear end gear, but I'm not sure I want to do this. I don't want anything too crazy because of my highway driving and going to a 3.43 or something like that from my current 3.23, just doesn't seem like it is worth it, plus then I would have to change the speedo gear to keep that correct.
3. I am considering getting the shift governor adjustment kit and seeing if I can bring my shifts up a bit. My engine certainly makes power at higher RPMs, but I'm not sure what the mechanical red line should be for my engine at this point. My current shift point is 5000 and if I'm upping my torque converter stall, I don't want to run out of usable range. I would probably try to bring the shift point up to 5250 or may be 5500? Thoughts?
4. Finish burning through these summer tires and get some gripy 200 tread wear tires. I'm told this could make a MASSIVE difference.

 

I came up with these options for rear LCA's. Anyone have any suggestions or experience regarding any they may want to share?

I'm trying to determine how important it is to have an articulating joint at both ends or just one end and a Poly bushing at the other. I'm also trying to determine how important it would be for me to use adjustable one's vs fixed length ones... Again, since the car is sometimes driven for pleasure, it would be nice not to have extreme NVH...

 

I do have a decent discussion regarding the LCA's specifically over on FRRAX.com if anyone is interested in reading there...

How Much Articulation Needed for Rear LCA while Autox'ing - F-Body Road Racing and Autocross Forums (frrax.com)

 

The body side needs to be able to rotate up and down without restriction. The axle side needs to be able to rotate all over the place, that's the one that really benefits from a lot of axes of free movement.

 

I actually ran some simulations in CAD, and found the following, which very much aligns with your statement. Copied from my post on Frrax:

I drew up a simple representation of the car in CAD and rotated the rear end such that at the approximate location of the Bump stops, I had 1" of movement on each side, and 2" of movement on each side. I actually looked at a picture I took after installing my lowering springs and it looks like I only have about an inch of space between the axle and bump stops in the rear now, so that would logically be my max movement. (Unless that in itself is a separate problem...)

What I found is about what I expected and is the following:
Amount of movement on each side of the axle - 1" / 2"
(Assuming central pivot point)
Angle of the axle side bushing - 2.316 deg. / 4.597 deg.
Resulting angle of chassis bushing - 0.050 deg. / 0.198 deg.
(/ \ from change in relative width)

*As I mentioned these numbers are estimates since my car is in storage, I used the track width from the web, subtracted my 275 tires from each side and assumed about an inch of clearance from the inside of the Tire to my LCA, which I think is pretty accurate. This gave me a center to center of LCA brackets of 45.15". I also assumed a bolt to bolt length of the LCA's to be 21".

This is making it sound to me like having an articulated joint at the axle, and a regular poly bushing at the chassis side could be perfectly acceptable. I have a hard time thinking the 0.05 deg is going to be too much for the poly bushing to handle... Even if the swing of the Panhard rod increases this slightly, I would think the worst case it may increase to 0.1 deg. or maybe 0.5 deg...

 

This is exactly what I was told when we went to Tony at ABC performance to build control arms for my old 4th Gen, evident that they work perfectly because of the the repeated success his car has with the same combination. High durometer bushing on the chassis side and and a cross axis sealed ball joint on axle side -










Obviously I went that direction, but if the cost was better the DSE arms are an equaling appealing design, offer everything in a slightly different manner, My main concern was this was a streeted car and I need sealed joints and no noise...that eliminated UMI and Spohn concepts in both regards

 

Kind of mixed up what was being discussed here vs Frrax, so I'm reposting here...

SO... Spring is here! I pulled my Camaro out of storage, and aside from a leaking steel braided fuel line, all seems alright!

Time to start making decisions and pacing part orders! I already have my first autox even scheduled for April 30th!

At this point I think my top topics are as follows:

LCA's - I looked at my thrust angle, and it does actually seem slightly off. If I get down and look in line with the outside of surface my rear tire, it lines up with the outer edge of the shoulder of the tread on my front tire on the left side but is off the car on the right side. So, the difference is maybe 0.25-0.5" at the front tires, is this enough to worry about, necessitating adjustable arms?
(Related question, if you're going to adjust your thrust angle, do you need to loosen the rear bolts on your torque arm first?)

**UPDATE: I pulled the trigger on UMI Roto/Roto LCA's and a new Panhard bar! Was able to get them from Summit with 10% off! I decided anything else would make me wonder if I should have gone for the fully un-restricted movement option. Since I am looking for that extra tenth as people sometimes talk about. If I wasn't the Poly/Roto may have been fine. I'll report back once they're installed! They're more expensive than the Spohn version, but I can't help feeling more confident in the UMI parts, and service after the fact, based on my reading and experience thus far...

Shave bump stops - I want to make sure I'm not contacting the bump stops on hard turning. I never did anything after installing my UMI lowering springs... That said, bouncing the car at each corner by hand, I cannot feel it making contact... Do most of you that have lowering springs modify your bump stops? I would think it would be noticeable if I was hitting them, and I've never obviously noticed it...

Find and fix some small oil leak on the engine. I looked at it again, and everything from the engine back has motor oil on it, but even the upper part of the back of the engine, like the back of the distributor. This is making me think it my be the rear "China wall?" of my intake manifold is not properly sealed? I have always struggled to get the intake properly sealed; I've installed it twice now and it seems have had leaks, or at least weeping, both times front and back... Tips???

Switch to an upgraded torque converter - Street Edge 9.5" 2200-2400 rpm Stall

I also like the idea of being able to adjust my roll center to help balance the car. I found Founders offers a Height Adjustable Panhard Rod Relocation Kit for only $242.
https://www.foundersperformance.com/product...?v=7516fd43adaa

 

China wall leak - DO NOT use the cork or rubber gaskets included with the intake gasket set. Clean off the china walls good, then put a 1/4" bead of The Right Stuff gasket maker. Install intake, let dry. No more leaking china walls.

 

To follow up, I have never been quite sure what order to do things in.. So the process is:
- clean the surface
- you apply the sealant (Any time you want to use the actual gaskets along with sealant? Even a thin skimming of sealant?)
- Put intake in place (Do you allow any cure time before placing the intake into place?)
- Properly torque bolts (Do you just install bolts, hand snug bolts, or fully torque bolts immediately? After a certain amount of cure time?)

So you say you like the "Right Stuff" gasket maker. Which color right stuff do you use? There are so many different options. I was watching an episode of engine masters, I think it was, and they said they preferred either the ultra or optimum Gray sealant, which I guess is stronger and makes a firmer gasket once cured.

 

More updates!

My new roto/roto LCA's and Panhard bar are installed! Definitely seems to free things up back there. I notice a lot less violence when going over the crown of a road while turning on power. It also seems that the issue I used to have of having the inside rear tire losing traction when making tight on power turns is gone! This was a big hope of these parts.

I still need to make final adjustments. At this point I just matched the lengths of the new parts with the parts I took off on my bench. Be aware, the UMI Panhard rod, needs to have the adjusting hex on the bar itself on the driver side. I installed it first on the passenger side (Because it made the UMI sticker upright) but then realized you couldn't get in there to adjust it and loosen/tighten the lock nuts. I also noticed the side opposite of the adjuster, I though, was not tapped deep enough, but after installation I would say it is intentional, because if you were to thread the Roto end any deeper into the Panhard rod tube, you wouldn't be able to get a wrench on the lock nut. After about a hundred miles, all bolts are still tight. I greased each joint with two pumps of super lube on the bench, and applied blue Loctite to each setscrew that locks the adjusting ring for the roto joint.


I think maybe it's time to clean up the bench...

I've also done some re-prioritizing based on more reading. I was considering putting in the height adjustable torque arm relocation kit, but it sounds like any lowering of the torque arm lowers your roll center which just increases mid corner oversteer, which is the opposite of what it feels like I need right now, so that one will wait till I feel it is necessary.

I also was strongly considering getting one of the Astro Van steering shafts because my steering feels... squishy? I thought it was the rag joint going, but once I realized it is very simple to remove the plastic cover and slide it up the steering shaft, I found everything going into the steering box is tight. So, no need for any replacement steering shaft. It seems to either be the steering box itself, or something after it. I already changed my center link last year, that was really bad, but nothing else seemed terrible... I need to look into possibly tightening that adjusting screw on the top of the steering box slightly in hopes of tightening things up a little bit...

 

I also decided to grab a trans governor re-calibration kit. It was pretty cheap, and I wanted to increase my shift points a bit. This plays to the power curve of the stealth ram, and once I pull the trigger on the higher stall torque converter, it will give me more usable RPM range. I kind of went down the rabbit hole on this topic, since there are so many anecdotal posts, but very little numerical data. I ended up getting the Superior kit, since it supposedly had better C clips, and was about half the price of the B&M and TCI versions. They're all basically the same thing.

PSA: I have heard of a lot of varying stories about how much oil comes out each time you pull the governor. I found that the way I lifted the car up, using my ramps in the front and jack stands in the back so that the back was still somewhat higher than the front, only maybe an ounce of oil dribbles out each time. Maybe less! Sounds like level or worse yet, the front end up high and the rear on the ground, people have been losing upwards of a full quart.

I would be interested in how far it is safe or logical to go with shift point for my setup??? I was thinking 5400-5500 rpm? As the charts say stock was about 5k. Factory '91 Z28 350 with stealth ram, 1.6 roller rockers, ignition box and upgraded coil, and full exhaust, if it makes a difference a 3.23 posi 10 bolt rear...

First, I took detailed measurements of the weights, they seemed to have two different thicknesses some of which shared general profile shape:

It seems the positioning of the weight is very critical to the function of the weights. This is why I experimented with my paperclip method. I bent a paperclip to act as pin for the weights to rotate freely on. I set the weight on the scale then with the paper clip lifted the axle side off the scale just slight, and as smoothly as possible and recorded the weigh. Not sure if the value is terribly useful, but it does help account for the shape of the weights and the weight distribution.

And the springs:

I did this at a point when the governor was installed in the car so there were some assumptions made, but the numbers should at least be proportional. I found it very interesting that the order of weight advertised by Superior doesn't seem to match my calculations...

These are the results of my testing so far:

I first tried the D weight in place of the factory weight that was on the light spring side, but while it was lighter, I think there was more weight at a greater radius from the pin, so it actually shifted slightly earlier than stock. I therefore reshaped the same weight to have the same profile as the stock weight, but out of thinner material, this one brought my shifts up 3-400 rpm from the un-modified D weight and up 2-300 rpm from stock. I may try drilling a few more small holes near the end to shave off another about 0.3g. (My calculations estimate a 3/16 hole near the center, and two 1/8" holes on either side of it, should remove the needed 0.3g given the thickness of the D weight.


***Please read the units, since I worded on different parts of this at different times, I admit I jumped around a bit between metric and imperial, sorry...***
-------------------------
I resized after posting all this about the governor tuning, that it will probably get lost in my long AutoX thread, so I decided to create it's own thread below. I will follow up with responses and additional testing there...

My Experience with 700R4 Shift Governor Tuning - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

10-8-23 UPDATE: Swapping the E weight for my modified one, got me to ~5400 RPM WOT 1-2 shift. This is about what I was looking for! Other springs and weights left the same. This was done at the same time as I swapped in my 2600 stall converter, but I don't think that should have an effect on WOT shifts...

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. 16' of bench top, and I usually have 1 to 2 sq. feet of open work surface.

Great details here. Thanks for the tip on the panhard orientation. I would have followed the decal too!

And great detail on the governor....something I've never messed with. But after cam, intake, exhaust and heads, I'm goign to need some different shift points for sure.

 

My workbenches are currently both completely covered in my wifes gardening stuff! I guess I don't wrench as much as I used to.

I've been trying to get out and autocross my car for over four years now. Being old, working too much, and having a wife and three kids is not conducive to a project car. Every time I crawl under it now days I hurt for the next week, and my weekends always seem to be... eh-hem pre-booked. lol! I've considered a Vette but my wife has informed me that she's not ready to see me in dad shorts and new balance shoes yet.

When you change your roll center with the PHB relocation kit you're going to probably need to increase the rear spring rates. As far as the LCA's go, I've always heard that poly bushings load up like a spring and can induce snap oversteer. I ended up going with the same rod end joints for that reason.

 

I've only ever seen one version of The Right Stuff. Comes in a 'cheese-wiz' can. As for the gaskets, I've never seen them be anything but trouble.

Edit: Guess it's been a while since I bought any Right Stuff. Choices now. I'd use the black, third from the right in your pic.

 

Just finished taking a look at my steering box. It has been super loose since I got the car, about 114k mi on her when I got her back in 2004. So I cleaned the whole top area, sprayed it with pb blaster a couple of days ago, then painted a witness line of the starting position. I loosened the lock nut, then turned the adjusting screw down till it stopped then backed it out a half turn then locked the lock nut back down. Looking at my marks it looks like my half turn out, resulted in tightening the adjuster screw about a quarter of a turn. I read elsewhere that some people suggest backing off a quarter turn from tight, but then heard other people say that was too tight, and that they still had tight spots, so I though a half turn out seemed safe...

And well... wow, why didn't I do this ...19 years ago? It seems greatly improved, and no specific tight spots that I notice. Before, the steering was very vague, there was minimal feedback, and I was constantly correcting on the highway. Now I can shift the wheel just the slightest bit and I actually feel the car start to turn. Pretty amazing! I did buy the steering gear rebuild kit, that I may still do, but for now things feel pretty great.

I will say maybe it is just actually having feedback now, but the steering seems slightly heavier. Is that normal for this adjustment? Did I go too far even with my half turn out???

 

Hey All,

So, we're getting into the prime autocross months. I've actually been to three events so far this season, and things are going pretty well, though I still have a lot of work to do on the nut behind the wheel...

I'm currently focusing on trying to learn how much brake to give and how early to slow down enough, that I don't understeer like crazy in tight turns, losing a ton of time. I'm also trying to sort out tire pressure. I have been chalking my side walls, and even at 41 PSI in the front and 36 in the back, I'm still wiping all the chalk off down to the edge of tread where it meets the sidewall... What I'm getting from people I'm talking to is I need more camber to help, in the front at least. Not much you can do in the back with a rigid axle, other than play with tire pressure. I am hoping when I upgrade to Falken Azenis RT660 tires, which I plan to do once I burn through the 360 treadwear General UHPS tires I'm using not, the side walls will be a little stiffer.

On another note, I just placed an order for a Street Edge 9.5" torque converter! I'm hoping it will help make up for the fact that I put the stealth ram intake on, and don't have much power way down low in the RPM range anymore. It has a flanged chrome-molly drive hub, furnace brazed pump and turbine, a high carbon lockup clutch, and the input splines are also chrome-moly and heat treated for increased strength amongst other features. I was originally planning on going around 2400 stall, but after a great discussion with Andre at Edge converters (actually my second call with him, I have lots of questions, lol), he convinced me to try a 2600 stall. We talked all about my specific set up and needs since it is going to be a fully custom converter and he said he could set it up to feel tight enough even below the stall speed that it would feel basically like stock around town, until I really step on it then the RPMs will jump to 2600 which is right in my power band. He said if I was really unhappy with how it turns out, he could always restall it down to a lower speed later. The other cool thing is he said it should be so efficient that additional cooling may not even be needed, and that the smaller size (Factory is 12") will actually save me 12+ lbs of rotating mass, which is aways a plus. He also said that it should be good up to about 600 ft-lbs of flywheel tq, so if I do decide to heads and a cam, or even a crate engine at some point, I should be good, on the torque converter at least. I might add, I was down to Edge or Midwest for my converter, it sounded like they were basically able to offer about the same thing at a similar price, but Edge just seems to have many more positive mentions across this forum and others about their converters and the support Andre always gives.

Street Edge Converter for GM 700R4 Transmissions [SE-700R4] - $590.00 : Edge Racing Converters, More Horsepower with More Torque Guaranteed!


All in all, the car feels like it handles pretty darn well, stays flat, and is pretty predictable. I just need to work on grip and power, which the torque converter and eventually tires will hopefully help! And get more practice!

Side note, I have decided to sign up for a track sprint, so autocross for one lap on a track. I had been nervous to try getting my old Camaro on a track, but there is one near the end of the season, in case any issues arise from it, I won't miss out on the whole season. I'm pretty excited!

 

How much negative camber do you currently have up front? Depending on which camber plates you have, you probably want the max amount you can get from your camber plates. I would start at -2 and go from there. Also probably as much positive caster as you can get as well.

 

As for the rear, if you ever switch to a 9", then you can add cambered snouts and crank in negative camber there as well.

 

If your tires are rolling over with that much pressure in them you must have very weak sidewalls. I am on Powertour this week and was autocrossing with 28lb all around and could have gone a little lower. But that is with stiff sidewall 200 tw tires. Years ago I had a set of Sumitomo's that were highly rated by TIRE RACK that I had to run a lot of pressure in, I did not agree with TIRE RACK's rating.When you do get a set of 200tw tires you will be surprised at how more grip they have, how much rougher they ride and that they last longer than you thought. Performace tires don't do well in cold weather, even below 45 or 50 degrees , and are not great in the rain or wet roads. They also tend heat cycle/age out quickly, meaning the compound will get hard so you just as well drive them and wear them out because you will need to plan on replacing the every year or two anyway.

 

I had an Edge racing converter in the car with the old 305 tpi on nitrous, and then also with the new 406 and also on nitrous. Andre changed it from a 2800 to a 3400 when I changed motors. It worked well on autocross for sure.
I am also a huge fan of a good set of 200 treadwear tires. It was such a game-changer for me. These are now about 2 years old, so this will be my last year on them I bet. Will re-order these Falken Azeni Rt660 tires again.

 

I pulled put my paperwork from my last allignment, and ot doesnt look like i have much... not sure if more is possible with the factiry strut mounts, or if it is time for camber plates... im thinking the latter...

What i requested

What i ended up with...

Looks like maybe i could get a little more out of the stock plates...

Or should I just loosten them up and slam them all the way in and back like I've heard repeatedly on here?

 

Camber on a solid rear axle, mind blown!!! Could you link me to an example that would fit a thirdgen, or do they require a lot of modification? Are they the ones they call a full floater, or something like that?

 

On the tire topic I have literally been hearing since my first event last year that 200 tw tires are a must and will change the whole game... in retrospect I should have gone straight to them... I think my uhps tires are hot happy with me so the rt660s could be in my near future...

Chunks missing?

I'm very glad to hear of others using Edge converters for autocross and being happy with the results! I really think it is going to transform the power delivery of the car for the better!

 

Strange full floater designed by old GM engineer and road racer Tony G, he developed the full float camber adjustable rear for strange and had the exclusive sale roghts for the first 5 years, Yes it does involve a new whole rear..way, way more than you need at this point I`d guess..

facebook.com/250752546439/posts/1966-chevelle-chassis-abc-performance-frt-and-rear-suspension-kit-using-strange-/10154984009111440/

 

I remember reading about (or perhaps Herb talking about during a presentation) the team effort they had to build the Gray Ghost. A bunch of GM engineers, each taking on an area of the car to specialize in. IIRC, the guy working on the axle cut the tubes near the center section, and welded a flange on each side of the cut. The flanges had a slight bevel machined into them, providing a modest amount of non-adjustable camber to the rear axle assemble. The splined ends of the axle shafts had to have a "curve" or bevel cut into them, to allow them to operate at a slight angle. Creative, low budget thinking.

https://bangshift.com/bangshiftapex/...he-gray-ghost/

 

Yes, this one is got a special flange and angled shims to go from 0°-3° and yes the axles splines at the ends where they meet the hubs are crowned




https://www.streetmusclemag.com/feat...ter-cornering/

 

I received my new torque converter, and it looks nice! 9.5" 2600 stall, and he said he would set it up on the tighter side for me even below stall. And he included new bolts, which is nice!

NOW I NEED YOUR OPPINIONS...
Trying to decide if I should do the install or let my local shop I trust do it? I would just be doing it with cracks stands and ramps... thoughts? Also, while I'm in there should I be replacing my front pump seal on the trans? The rear main seal on my engine? I've been struggling to track down an engine oil leak for the last couple years and I was thinking of letting my local shop put in dye and figure it out for me, could do the converter at the same time...

ALSO...
I'm also trying to determine what direction to go engine wise. I know I would like some more power at some point... I have the following options but I'm not sure which is the best route to go... Again, I'm trying to keep costs down and only what is necessary, I don't need a 1200 hp monster... I'd like to go for between 4-500 hp I think. Should be more than enough for auto x and such but not so much to require tons of supporting mods...
- Have my local guy put in new rings and main bearings, then over time buy new heads and a cam
- Replace the whole rotating assembly then later do heads and a cam
Would this require machining of the block to a 355? Would I best to stick to 350/355 or would a 383 make sense given my setup?
- get a full short block, with four bolt mains and all, then heads and a cam
- get a full long block crate engine from ATK or Blue Print, then put stealth ram on it?



Nicely welded flanged front plate.

Bolted to full ring adapter, then screws welded. Not sure if the center pilot is new and rewelded, or if that is how it is from the factory.

 

Given my tire wear and roll even at high pressures, I decided I need more camber. So, I just ordered a set of the UMI camber plates. I also previously picked up some relatively inexpensive turn plates, and a magnetic digital Camber gage (From Amazon) I can stick to the brake rotor. So, once I get these in, I'll have to give it a try adjusting my camber up to something like -1.5 or -2.0 degrees or so and see how the chalk test looks. If I understood some of the YouTube videos I've watched correctly, I should be able to calculate my caster by using the turn plates and camber measuring tool. Something like taking camber measurement at 20deg turn left, then right, then calculate? If someone has the equation readily available, please post here.

QUESTION: One thing I have been trying to figure out is while making alignment adjustments, and loosening your camber plates, should the car be under full load on the ground, or do you need to relieve tension from the strut first? I know the weight of the car is held up by the spring in the K-member, but I don't want to loosen the camber plates, and have them shoot to one end, then not be able to adjust them, or worse damage something.

UMI SITE, full details: 1982-1992 GM F-Body Spherical Caster/Camber Plates - UMI Performance Inc.
SUMMIT RACING where I bought them, with 10% off certificate I had and free shipping: UMI Performance 2040-R UMI Performance F-Body Spherical Caster Camber Plates | Summit Racing

 

I jacked the side up that I was adjusting. It is true that there is not much adjustment with the stock strut mounts but I think you will find that your tires rolling over has more to do with the the tires than the camber.

 

I completed my rust cleanup of the underside of my strut towers, then installed the new UMI camber plates. Last night I just tried to do a camber adjustment using my magnetic camber measuring tool, amazon swivel plates, and a ratchet strap to move the strut around. I was able to get it so both sides say I'm getting -1.4 degrees of camber on both sides. Even here I'm pretty close to my master cylinder on the driver's side... I did my best to keep the spacing of the strut end as close as possible to the pre change distance to the firewall, so not to mess to much with Caster at this moment in time. I'll have to go out and give it a try soon. I plan to run an autocross event this weekend, so I'll chalk up the tires again and see how things go...

Before

After

Adjustment method I saw online, worked pretty well...

Camber gauge against rotor

Swivel plates to allow free movement

 

My best run of the day from yesterday! I admit the concrete walls were a little intimidating...

I wasn't thinking that much about it, but I'd say front end traction seemed to be much less of a problem with the added 1.4 deg of camber! I also ran the morning at 36 PSI front and back, then the afternoon at 35 PSI. I forgot my chalk, but the line at the end of the tread had some slight scuffs, but was still there at the end of the day... Seems like a good sign!

 

It sounds like you are having fun, that's the most important thing.I went to the Continental tire summer nationals in St. Paul this past weekend for three days of autocross. I didn't drive that well but I still had a blast.

 

At this point I'm seeking out the cheapest events that generally give the largest number of runs, to improve my skills. I do want to try some of those destination type events at some point once I get a bit better. I know the national tour came to Rt66 Raceway where I usually race, but the even cost twice as much and I've heard you got very few runs out of it, so I went to this one instead. $45 for an even where I got 12 runs!

 

Boy, that up-and-over end is exciting. Get in there too hot and you catch a little air!

 

Definitly cool! Felt like you were dropping into a half pipe, or starting down a ski hill. Unfortunately it sounds like the last season for the track, the property is being sold.

I didn't mention that it's a little risky though. One guy somehow broke the bead on one tire and went flat, and another hit the wall with is kit exo frame racer after getting out of shape in the slalom...

I'm trying out my first actual road course in a couple of weeks! I was nervous about it, but after this event ay Rockford Speedway, it doesnt seem any worse...

https://www.motorsportreg.com/events...chicago-932578