Allright i will admit it i was an import tunner i used to run w/ the ricers, but i have changed i now i have an 87 iroc w/305 and 5 speed. My question is this, what mods can i make to my 305 to make it strong enough to take a 300hp 3 stage nos kit? i want the first stage to be 100 hp befor the throttle body and the second stage would be a fogger system on the intake (200hp) and the third stage would be both stages at the same time, besides really strong rods and pistons and rings, what else can i do to insure i dont blow myself up? i am going to get a msd remote retard igntion (allowing my 10 degrees of timeing on the fly)...... plzzz help:lala:

 

OK WHY IS EVERYONE LOOKING AT THIS AND NOT RESPONDING

 

Because you titled your post with something that looked kind of ammusing then asked a question that had nothing to do with the title of the post.... you asked how to make a 305 handle a 300 hp Nitrous shot... this is a bad idea so people arent going to help you with something they think is a bad idea.

Most people would tell you that trying a 300 hp shot with a 305 is a bad idea because to make it strong enough you could build a 350/383/400 etc. A 300 hp shot is going to push your entire short block to or beyond its limits.

 

donno, I've seen stock blocks living with 2 stages totaling 250hp (first stage 100hp off the line, second added another 150 in second gear, just 2 nossles in front of the TB) for a while running 11's. I susupect that is with NO leway, the first time you don't have enough fuel, too much spark, mis a shift, hit the limiter still spraying (run a window switch making that impossible)... you'll be rebuilding it, and then you might as well build a 350 with forged internals.

Not sure I see a point in doing it in 3 stages, where do you turn each on? Really, you can get the traction to launch with both on if you set the car up right, and the only reason not to is if you want to run on radials and to make the engine a bit more reliable (mor gradual application of power)

You will trash the block pretty quickly if you try a lot of passes, but if you tune the N2O right you'll break tranny's, rears and driveshafts first.

 

ok dan why dont u get the stick outa your a$s... i am going to do this because i want the relabilbty/ streetablitly of a 305... and 20mpg when i am not on it hard is a very nice propostition... i could build a 350 or 383 but i want this puppy to be high reving like 7 grand easy.... cant really do that w/ your 350 or 383 very easily can u... ok all these stages will be manually done. on the steering wheel, i figure that will fix anything excpecially the 200 hp shot cause that will be on the left side, the side i shift w/ so i am not to worried about that... but back to my question what kinda of modifications can i make to my lil 305. i do plan on breaking stuff, eventually it will all get replaced the t5 will make way for a t56 and the driveshaft will make way for alluminum...

 

You have to go ***** out on the short block to get away with that.

1.) Splayed steel main caps
2.) Forged crank
3.) Forged polished/shot peened rods
4.) Forged NITROUS pistons
5.) Moly Rings
6.) Steel/copper head gasket
7.) Steel ringed head
8.) Hardened exhaust valve seats
9.) Good ARP fasteners all around.

That should hold it together, maybe. That's a lot of juice on an engine that already likes to detonate. You might want to think about 350 heads. They'll lower your compression which will help with the nitrous and breathe better. You'll take a little hit on fuel economy. You're also looking at a lot of $$$$$$$$$$

 

Hey Im sure you could just go to the army surplus an get a big old jet assist rocket, strap that to the top of the car, rig up a little button on the steering wheel. There ya go still nice and streetable untill you hit the little button. Any its probably safer and easier than running that much NOS through a 305. :lala:

PS, IMO using NOS is just a cheep way to go faster, key word being faster, you should build it up to go fast then if you have to use the NOS to get that last bit of speed out it.

 

Repent... and you shall be forgiven...

Let the NOS go.. it was nice in the days of rice.... embrace the supercharger..

 

You're barking up the wrong tree here. A 350 would be much easier to get to rev to 7K then a 383 or a 305. A 305 is both small bored and long stroked for a SBC, which make it not want to breath (small bore shrouds valves) or turn at high rpm's. You'll need a parts list like ATOMonkey's to turn 7K in anything reliably.

If you want rpm's build a 302 (4" bore, 3" stroke, GM did it in the late 60's) or a 377 (4.12" bore, 400 block, 3.48" stroke (350 crank)) and then rev them to the moon...

With 300hp of spray??? You'll be chucking t56 parts weekly (well it won't really blow up, but you will wear out parts that fast), and you're better off with something like a HD steel or chrome moly shaft at that power level.

 

You don't know how fast you are going, you probably got into a friends camaro and was like holy **** I need one of these. so you buy yourself a cheap 305 camaro with a stick. You probably run 16
's right now, instead of buying gears, radials and doing it simple and the right way, you think you can put a 300 shot just like that, with your clever little 3 stage system, man you are so naive it isn't even funny, learn about cars, you probably don't know what a camshaft is.

 

350, u got some ***** to say i dont know what camshaft is, i run like 14's cause its an IROC 87 w/ 3.40's and 16 inch low profile tires, so out w/ that bs, i want to keep the 305 cause it is different... and i guess if you are different you get flamed on here... me naive ok if i was naive would i be concerned about valve float, i think not... i would however like to thank crossfire for the help he has been. i did not take into acount the longer stroke of the 305 as compared w/ a 350, but still its an originality thing... and i am not sure about mpg w/ a 350 what do u normally see cross, when you are easy on your baby lol. cross i am hoping for a low 11 or mid 10s it should be easily attainible if i can hook up the power right?? 600hp over 500 lb torque in 3200 lb package...

 

hehe what do u know about cars u only have 2 posts here son shut the fuc|< up

 

May I suggest just reading. That's what I plan on doing. I myself have asked a question about s/c and sprayin my 305 ( https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=114775 and https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=116210 ). And guess what response I got??? "Why don't you build a 350 it's cheaper." Either that or no answer at all. If I wanted to build a 350 do you think i'd have made a post about doing $hit to my 305? You'll only be ridiculed for wanting to build your 305 how you want it and since you were rice b4 it'll make it that much more worse. Seems people have something against building 305's on this website. Kind of a messed up deal if you ask me. *** knows how the v6 guys feel. I feel like i'm bein treated like a damn ***** here. Anyway, I better stop while I can, I don't wanna get your post locked, just thought i'd give you my 2 cents.

 

hey eatmydust,

I dont think its that people are against building up a 305. Its that a built 350, will be much more likely to survive a s/c and nitrous, and for less. If you want to spend alot of $$$$ to build a 305 that will be more prone to blow up under both an s/c and nitrous, then be my guest; however, I think most people here are just trying to get you the most reliability and performance for your money.

So in short, it would be best to move up to a 350 for peace of mind, and some added power.

Also, as ATOMonkey pointed out, if your gonna rip into the block and all the goodies, why not spend a few bucks, and buy a bigger block, just makes sense to me.

 

I would say that 150hp is the recomended max N20 (wet system)shot for a stock bottom end-ed 305 and that may be pushing it for regular use.

You should be able to get that 305 5 speed into the mid-high 14s without anything major (like a cam or heads) just exhaust/headers/cold air intake/chip. That being said high 14s + 150 shot and a LITTLE traction will give you high 12s for about $1500 investment in parts.

Can't prove the N20 part, but I ran 14.6 @96 mph in my 305 5 speed, with edelbrock headers($320), cat(~$80), muffler(~$60(free w/car)), SLP chip($70), air filter($20), driveshaft($150) I'm still running the stock exhaust pipes, so there may be a little gain from 2.5" vs 3" cat-back, I don't know.

I haven't run a lot of N20 yet, but I've gone through 1.5 bottles so far at about 60-70hp shot and picked up 8 mph in the 1/4 at the track.

Maybe that will help you some, oh yeah, I doubt you are 3200lbs either, my GTA comes in at ~3440 lbs without me in it. That's a 3600lbs race weight.

 

OK, lets be very clear, if a good 305 is what you’ve got then, well, it’s cheaper then buying a 350 and then doing the same work to it. The 350 will be a little easier to build because parts are more common, but for the most part they are the same. In some cases the 305 is easier (ex, you can easily balance a 350 crank to work in a 305, but it’s much more expensive to go the other way around even though they have the same casting #).

If you need to buy a block then well, it doesn’t usually make sense to build less then a 350 (unless you’ve got specific goals that require it) just because again, the parts are the same or more common for the 350, and you automatically get 15% more displacement and much more flow because of the larger bore.

Between the 2 there is no reason why a stock based 305 would break at a lower power level then a then a similarly built 350, hell, most of the parts are the same.

From my experience 305’s can get significantly better gas mileage then a 350, the crossfire 305 in my ’83 gets 16-19mpg city (DC stop and go traffic), and 33-36 highway. My Formula 350, well it’s embarrassing, it’s never gotten better then 18 highway and gets about the same in the city as my truck, and I can’t find anything wrong with it (can’t be all bad, it passes emissions easily and runs 13.6’s with a cat back and cold air). Both cars are autos, the 305 has 3.42 gears (used to be 3.23’s before I blew those up, got the same gas mileage either way) and the 350 has 3.27.

Now everyone saying that you cannot do this without forged pistons or aluminum heads… bull****. The power levels we’re talking about if you’ve got everything right cast crap pistons and stock rods will hold. Of course, the one time you screw up you won’t have any leeway before you hole a piston, flex the crank and break rods… but till then you’ll be fine. When that happens, you take it all apart and throw some good stuff at it so that it can handle you screwing up a few times before parts start trying to find their own way out onto the street.

Forged or not, unless in most cases you’ve spent $$$$ on tope end parts, if you think that you’re not going to lunch some parts occasionally you’re in the wrong hobby (one notable exception is that TRW forged pistons tend to be the some of the cheaper and more indestructible parts out there, but so far my brother has had similar luck with total low buck ‘badger’ forged pistons ).

One big piece of advice for a former import tuner, you’re coming from a world where you’ve got to wind little dinky engines to the moon to make a couple of drops of HP. In this world you’ve got 2-3 times the displacement in a more efficient package (more cylinders), and you’ll be much happier and have a much more durable and long lasting package if you resist the urge and keep the rpm’s reasonable. For the most part that means in the 5-6K rpm range (I shift my 13second formula at 4600-4800, that’s all it needs).

In a nutshell, is it possible to run 300hp of a power adder on a stock block… yea, sure, but at the same time, if you’re asking these questions I doubt that you’ll be doing it for long. And again, with that much spray, you’ll trash the bearings pretty quickly no matter what.

 

just curious, why nitrous? its dangerous at best in a stock bottom end, and if you build a 305 do you wanna risk it? a procharger costs about 2700, and is always there. oh, and youll need a pretty much new, non emmission engine just to hit 7k in a 305. just a few thoughts.

 

isn't Willie running a 305? would be good if he would chime in on this post with his experiences. he had a SC + N20 and now has just a SC, right?

 

again 83 i owe u a lot for your welth of knoledge on this topick... since i am only getting flamed here would u plz email me at pred1tor83@hotmail.com thnx

 

Yeah Willie is running a s/c'd 305, not sure if he's got it on the bottle though. Would be nice if he had any advice or any tips and do's and dont's.

 

if youre looking for a motor that has a high reving charactaristics, the 305 wouldnt be my first choice. the motors that have better high-rev charactaristics are the de-stroked versions. for example, a 400 block with a 350 crank would be aproximately 377 cubes. they have high winding charactaristics because of the offset in the stroke and therefore are able to wind better than say a 350 or a stroked 350, being a 383 (a 350 with a 400 crank) which would put out more torque and not wind like a 377. normally people that run 305's that make monster power do it because its nice to be able to say "my 305 can spank your 350" not because a 305 winds better than a 350. l beleive the 305 has the same stroke as a 350, just a smaller bore. again please correct me if lm wrong.

 

again for like the 3rd time i want it to be ABLE to rev at like 7 grand that is not the GOAL OF THIS 305 THE GOAL IS TO GET GREAT GAS MILEAGE AND SPANK THE **** OUTA A LOT OF BIGGER MOTORS OUT THERE PLZ STOP POSTING ALTERNATIVES IF I WANTED THEM I WOULD HAVE PUT IT IN THE TITLE I WANTED TO KNOW HOW I CAN MAKE THE 305 HANDLE A 300 SHOT OF NOS, thnx

 

As long as everyone is getting hot and bothered and flaming each other I'd like to say that NOS pronounced NAWS is a very ***** term. It's called Nitrous or laughing gas or juice or spray, but not NAWS. N, O, S, is a company that makes nitrous kits. Nitrous is dinitrogen oxide. It is a fairly unstable molecule that splits into N2 and O2 at high temps and pressure. N O S is a company that sells decent off the shelf nitrous kits for street racers. Thanks for your time.

 

YES SMART AZS N.O.S. IS A COMPANY, BUT ON THE STREETS (DONT KNOW HOW MUCH U GET OUT) IT NITROS OXIDE IS COMMENLY REFERRED TO AS NOS OR IN AN ABBRIVIATED FORM NITROS OXIDE SYSTEM SO SHUT UP THAT WAS OFF TOPIC ANWAYS

 

"My question is this, what mods can i make to my 305 to make it strong enough to take a 300hp 3 stage nos kit? i want the first stage to be 100 hp befor the throttle body and the second stage would be a fogger system on the intake (200hp) and the third stage would be both stages at the same time"

what is this, the fast and the furious? are you also wondering how to get a computer to tell you theres "danger in the manifold"?

look man, if youre looking for information you don't have to be a stroke to everyone giving you info. considering everyone that has posted has about 10 times the experience and knowledge than you do? whose asking the questions? you are, whose being kind enough to give you information? we are. if you dont want any decent ideas then go somewhere else.

 

ok look if i didnt get the newest magizen (i think its chvy) and i wanted to get different combinations of engiens i would have asked correct me if i am wrong but i did thank 83, one of the few that answered my QUESTION...

as for being from fast and furius, maybe but it is a good idea and very safe...

 

:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol:

So easy to **** people off. LMAO! TFATF RULES FOREVER!!!!!!!

LMAO

 

not mad just trying to GeT MY POINT ACROSS SOME PPL HAVE TO BE YELLED AT TO GET IT !:lala: :lala: as always thnx 83

 

ding ding ding, you are correct sir. 85% of the people who post here have a 10 year old maturity level. just ignore them. they usually have stupid mods or bone stock cars anyway.

 

Ummmm...... The only difference between a 305 and a 350 is the bore, they share the same crank/rods.

 

Wow.

After reading through that post, all I can think is; "Go back to imports."


"Please."

 

wow what a mature reply

you guys never let me down

 

pred1tor83 ,
Im sorry you are being flamed and maybe dont need that
but im sure it is hard for people not to when rediculas goals are set as opposed to trying to set you in the right direction..
300 shot on a stock inducted tpi is a little crazy ,1 you will never get 7000 out of the long runner setup nor do you need 7000
rpm to get you in the 10's 6300 w/373 gears will be just fine.
second you would be much better off trying to build a little first.
third 20 mpg is not that great,start burning your own proms and you will easily get 25 mpg out of a 350,
I just got 24 with 3 people in car (a 12 sec car mind you )
no nitrous .
So there you have it build your self a good natural combo
that is 12 second capable ,tune your own proms ,throw a
150 shot to it and get your 10's - a much safer,wise and durable combo that will get 25 + mpg.

Hope i helped

 

Now someone tell me how the hell this shieat has not been closed. I truly don't understand these moderators. The level of conservatism is frustrating and confusing. They would close a thread about the new GTO, or anything that slightly mentions " rice", yet not this. Im just venting honestly, I can't even remember the point behind this thread. I am just peeved that some threads get closed that contain content worthy of conversation whereas others dont. I can understand that some policing of this board, or perhaps "moderation" is necessary in order to maintain civility and order. This obviously is not a flame board. Their has to be some limit to this as well however. If I am not posting explicit content or attempting to start an argument, I don't think that I should have to worry about "the man" shutting me down because my thread may cause controversy or.. Gawd forbid.. prompt thought ?!?!?!?!?

ok... I feel better now.. :lala:

 

For someone that seems to be around the boards a fair amount, you certainly complain about the service a lot.

Want your money back?

 

hey smart guy u wanna now why it hasnt been closed yet, cause it actually has somthing to do w/ a third gen... not a gto or something else i want this mod for a third gen camaro (note that is the topic of these forums) if u would like to discuss a gto, go to a gto forum


ok... I fell better now.. :lala: