So we keep getting into this discussion of what a tpi is capable of and what it's not, what stock engines will tolerate... so here is the question:

What's the fastest anyone has gone with a stock long block and TPI intake?

I don't care if you sprayed 500hp worth of N2O or ran 60psi boost, as long as it held together and as long as you did it with a stock (as in, the way it left the factory) long block and TPI intake. Oh, and what did you do to get there?

Huh, no one has gone fast in a TPI car?

I’ve gone 13.60@100 in mine with just a few boltons and tweaking, but I’m sure someone has gone faster with a power adder (reason that I posted this here)… or is it that no one really seems to add a power adder before doing some engine work?

My setup is a stock heads/cam/intake L98 with a Vortech S-Trim V1 S/C. I've determined (from that other thread) that my exhaust is whats holding me back at this point. The reason my car is in this current state (combo sucks!) is because of the previous owner. I haven't done any mods to my setup since I bought the car. Everything is how the previous owner did it. This leaves me with a pretty weird setup ... completely stock everything, a S/C, and some lame Exhaust (but stock manifolds!). First on my list will be headers/exhaust and then I'll let you know how much power I can make with the TPI before I do the HSR swap. I plan to hit the dyno anyway, so I can produce some dyno numbers. And I can hit the track too for some track times if you want, but our track really, really, really sucks.

Track times mean a hell of a lot more to me then dyno numbers (give me a 60', et and mph and I can make a much better guess of what your car is capable of then I can with dyno numbers).

Just trying to see if anyone has done anything interesting with them before I try something different... It would be nice to have a "time to beat" also.

I ran 13.5@104 before the turbos (stock L98, heads/cam, 52mm tb, ported stock plenum & runners, portmatched Accel base, SLP Tri-Y's and catback, free ram air, modded MAF) and 12.7@114 afterwards at 5 psi. The longblock internals looked great when I tore the engine apart (anywhere from 50-100k miles on it, dunno when the engine was installed because I bought the car used), just a little cylinder wall scuffing, with lots of blowby Weight was around 3600 lbs w/ me at the E-town or Island Dragway scales.

I saw someone run 11.9's with the stock shortblocka dn vette heads, N/A. He had gutted alot of weight from the car.

Both of the below listed F-bods are 305's with TPI. My '92 has the stock short block with > 160K mi - heads redone @ 100K mi & I run 125 hp nitrous on the '92. 60' times for the '92 are in the 1.6 sec range.

Tim, what else is done to your 92. 11's is fantastic!!! Which Nitrous system are you running and which heads. Any other changes to the stock setup dealing with fuel/engine...

Thanks man! Those numbers are an ICON to all 305tpi's (without the peanut cam..lol)

I have a Compucar system, but I've changed the jet sizes - I wasn't impressed with their quality of workmanship, either. I'm running the stock LB9 iron heads with the 1.84" / 1.5" D valves - I ported them & shaved them about 0.020" to up the CR to 9.64:1. I'm using a Bosch 61805 in tank fuel pump from TPIS & TPIS Big Mouth intake, lg tube runners, 52mm TB, ported plenum, SP-L98 cam, 1.6:1 Crane full roller rockers, & a Pete Jackson Noisy gear drive. I started with a TPIS stage 5 PROM & modified it myself for optimal power @ WOT. I recently broke the pinon gear (Richmond 3.73:1 gears) in the 10 bolt rear end & now have a Moser 9" with 35 spline axles, 3.70:1 gears & a Detroit Locker in it. I also recently broke the 2nd gear synchro in the T5, and I just installed a Richmond 6 speed - still getting used to shifting it! I have a mods list I can e-mail to you, if you'd like to see it. I've done quite a bit more to it over the past 11 years.

Sure, please email to admin@ozzcorp.com.

Thanks for listing your mods! Great setup!

With your mods, what does the car run without Nitrous? (headwork, ported plenum, TPIS, all the NA stuff)

Thanks!


OH, doesn't the pete jackson noisy drive mess with your knock sensor?

I added a few more things in the post above. It runs high 12's on the motor alone. No, the noisy gear drive does not interfere with the knock sensor. I installed the gear drive back in '95 @ about 30K miles.

12s on motor alone, wow thats pretty rockin!
on a 305 with some intake mods thats damned good from what i've seen.

cheers

I guess my car would fit in the catagory of what your looking for...

stock L98, only things changed on the engine are AFPR, TPIS air foil, Accel 24lbs injectors, MSD dist, edel shorty headers and a D1sc...

Reaction-----1.112
60FT----------1.905
330FT--------5.381
1/8 ET--------8.333
1/8 MPH-----82.84
1000'--------10.906
1/4 ET-------13.064
1/4 MPH-----104.66

this was on drag radials, car is complete with all the emission crap still on it, a/c, power driver seat, windows, locks, mirrors, antenna and hatch
and my 200+ LBS in the drivers seat.

Next year we'll see if the Accell Gen VII computer will help things out...

later
larry

but was that with your pro charger or no?

cheers, cause if it wasn't thats a damned fast time!

How much boost, maniac?

Andris, I was going to mention you but I decided not to since I thought that there was some debate over what you ended up with… that you thought that it was an original 305/5speed car but when you took it apart you found that it was a 350… Did you ever figure it out (if it had the 5 speed or the engine swapped)? You don’t happen to know what the head casting #’s were?

12.801
107.7MPH
1.80 60 foot

Stock Heads/cam/bottom end 305 TPI CONVERTED to 650cfm carb/Performer intake/1-3/4" SLp Headers-Y-pipe with cutout/3.73 gears/Posi/28X11.50X15 ET Streets with Skinnies up front/150hp nitrous jetting with an NX Stage 6 plate under the carb(AKA SUPER RICH=safe..kinda) 3700 Vigalante converter/ Road race suspension pretty much.lowered, koni yellows, Spohn sway bars installed...

I only made 1 run so I'm guessing it has a lot more in it and I was 200PSI under the normal nitrous pressure that I wanted/usually run.

Me and Larry with the Procharged IROC went 2 out of 3 a few weeks back and he beat me with his 13.06 best. I wish I had run the 12.80 that night LOL Larry! Hope yer still driving the car on nice days, I'll run ya on motor next week Suprize suprize..

83 Crossfire TA,
The engine I pulled out was a 1990 L98, not the LB9 that was supposed to be in the '89 T5 Camaro... Everything appeared stock on it, other than the casting numbers on the block indicating the 5.7L, and the bore being 4" dia. <shrug>. It was a 350, not a 305 (and I thought I had a really fast 305 for the longest time...). Traxxion's got the heads kicking around in his garage now, so he can post the casting numbers if he's so inclined.

Andris

Thanks andris...

Right now I'm thinking that a stock long block and TPI should be good for 11's with the right power adder

Right now I'm actually more worried about the tranny falling apart before then, and I know the 9 bolt posi is not happy (I've killed it 3x in the last year... I'm pretty tough on it at the drag strip). I'm thinking that the next time I open it (it's actually on jack stands right now, I might just do that while I'm there) I'm going to weld the side gears to the side of the case and be done with it.

Andris, you're running a spool... how obnoxious is it on the street?

83 crossfire,

I'm running 10lbs at 6000rpm....

Denny,

actually that run (13.06) was done just before you got to the track, our run were:

--------------#1------------------#2--------------------#3

-----------you---me-----------you----me---------------you----me
reaction--1.107---1.193--------.833---1.056-----------.763---.890
60ft------2.172--- 1.989-------2.308--2.274----------2.301---2.334
1/4ET---13.454--13.147------13.628--13.641--------13.981--13.619
1/4mph--101.99--105.17------100.43-103.00----------99.58--104.14


Have Fun
later
larry

What does welding the gears to the side of the case do?

thanks

Welding the spider gears makes an open differential operate as if it had a minispool installed in it - both axles are locked together with no differentiation of the axle speeds.

ooooh I see.....so is that safe to do? or generally not a good idea? Cheap way for posi

cheers

Taking corners would be tough on the tires - I wouldn't do it on a street driven (daily driver) car.....

There's a big difference between “street driven” and “daily driven.”

And no, it’s not safe. I’ve driven these setups at the track and autox, but never on the street (which is why I’m asking). The car will have a tendency to try to go in a straight line in turns (making wet weather a definite bad thing) and could have a tendency to snap axles.

But between being tired of rebuilding a posi that was out of spec when I got it (before I rebuilt it the first time), and the units being too expensive to waste the money on this car it’s starting to look like a good option.

I’d kill for someone willing to part with a 9 bolt posi/carrier (even wasted, it can’t be worse then the one I’ve got now, I’ve rigged a fixture and have cut the bottom of the case .200” and the cones roughly the same to get more use out of something that is WAY out of spec) for the price of shipping or so…

Actually, the spool on the street doesn't bother me, even with the 17x11's in the back. Parking lots are a bit noisy, with the inside tire chirping away, and worn ends banging around. As for driving in the rain, I never had a problem. The car feels more predictable, and it's very easy to control a 4 wheel drift w/ the throttle (easier than before). Maybe the bad rep is from folks on treadless drag radials caught in the rain driving home from the dragstrip. Above 15 mph, it's not bothersome at all. I'm probably going to swap to a locker, or one of the Black Gold torsen type of diffs in the future, but I hate having to give up the 35 spine axles.

The 35 spline Detroit Locker I have in my '92 Z is very streetable - It's my daily driver - it did take a bit of getting used to compared to the Torsen I had in the 10 bolt, though.

Here's the inards of the Moser iron 3rd member with the locker installed compared to a stk Ford 9" 3rd member....quite a difference in "beefyness".

Nice rear, tim…

Andris, I think that you’ve told me the same thing the last time I asked and intended to do the same thing with a different car, but enough people steered me away from it that I didn’t try it. I think I’m sold on this one… thanks

Larry! Thanks! We need practice on the tree it seems!

Hey Tim, kinda off topic but I was wondering if you could post the specs for your SP-L98 cam and if TPIS still sells it.
On a side note, I think you deserve an award for how very clean your Z is at 160k miles. Not to mention what you have accomplished with the 305/5spd setup. Nice ride man.
:hail:
~Randy
RND91Z28@tampabay.rr.com

Thanks! The cam is still available from TPIS. The specs are 218 / 219, 0.415" / 0.433", 108

Thanks for the specs. How did your ecm react to the 108 lobe sep? I think I'll give the crane 2032 a try and hopefully I can get away with the stock tuning (chip) for a little while.

The idle needs to be raised to around 825 (it's quite lopey) & the low rpm VE tables should be leaned out a bit to keep the blk learn values from clipping @ 108 (rich) - although I ran with it rich for years before I started buring my own PROMs.

I have the 2032 in my '84 Berlinetta. In simulations I have run in Desktop Dyno, the SP-L98 is far superior in tq magnitude & pk HP, compared to the 2032. I'd say go with the SP-L98. I've had no problems in passing emissions with either cam.

yeah the beefier case can help:

JYD 2.0 carnage

Hmmm...might be worth a try with some 1.6's. No doubt it worked for you. I would be running the stock chip for a while too, that's why I was asking how it ran before any "tuning". Sounds good....BTW, did you ever get a chance to run the car before the head work and tuning? Thanks again for the good advice!

I ran a 14.3 i think at 96 mph and a 0-60 feet time of like 1.9 all this car is all F-ing stock to i can't find my slip right now. 350 TPI Automatic with 2.77 gears. this was with a ****ty *** reaction time of like .739 and 1.20 so yeah i could go a little faster i was sleeping at the lights " first time i went drag racing "

Well, this is what happens when something keeps wearing out and managed to **** me off… it gets welded:


I ground the sides of the cones down to give myself a nice bevel to lay a bead in. I also tacked the side gears on top of that for some added strength.

From the ride I took tonight in it, I really like it. I don’t see a good reason not to run a spool in a toy. It’s not that annoying and not noticeable unless you’re turning really slow and tight, but if you don’t like the inside tire hopping just give it a little more gas and it goes away. Steering is a little heavier, but nothing problematic. The car is MUCH more predictable then it was with a half working posi.

Reaction time does not affect your e.t. The e.t. timer starts when the reaction timer stops.

Yes, it ran 14.0.

10.70@129mph!

Its not mine, but a good friend of mine. Its a 91Z with a original stock short block 350. It's got older Dart Sportsman heads that are "cleaned up a little" with a healthy Lunati hyd roller cam "around 560 lift 240 duration" fed by a SuperRam. Runs consistent 11.80s@114 N/A. Add 150 shot and bingo! 10.70@129 at 3300 lbs w/o driver. Car is for sale too...

i went 11.74@ cant remember mph on STOCK 90K bottom end. Stock heads, cam, manifold. I had SLP runners, 1 3/4 headers MSD ignition stuff and a healthy 150 shot.....Hoosier slicks and a 3.23 gear. My 60' was a 1.625 if i recall. Stock rear and a shift kit...stock converter also

Now Im vortec headed and comp cammed with big fuel problems, bla bla but first time out car ran in the 10.80's TWICE. I came back out with a good converter this time. 60's were 1.51's!!

Now i have a good tranny, and am trying to work all the WOT /lean bugs out. Looking for 10.60's or better!

quit tellin' stories

Hey Tim, I'd be interested in that list too! I'm looking to redo my motor/trans soon. ..Espo70@optonline.net

Tim Burgess

Hey man we have the same rearend, except mine has the Daytona steel pinion nose and a 3.50 gear. I got one of the fist Detroit lockers for the 35 spline a long time back. Got a question about your torque arm adapter and housing clearence. I got the Spohn torque arm and went to mount it up, the Moser adapter(3 Bolts hold it to the housing) needs HUGE amounts of RIB metal hack sawed and ground away before this thing gets even close to bolting up. Is yours this way?
I ask because I got my 9" in the early 90's and wondered if Moser ever made a bracket with more case cleareance later? In 2000 I sold the original axles and carrier and sent the housing to Moser and got strange ends and new 35 spline axles and just never got it back in, till now.

Here are the mods I had to make for the Richmond 6 speed & the Moser 9" - You will need a new rear tq arm mount from Spohn for the Moser rear. The one he made for me needed only slight modification to clear the ribs on the center section. I also ground one of the ribs a small amount.

Lengthen trailing arms by 1/4", new rear lug nuts (1/2"-20) for street tires
(new locking lugs, too & drill out the lock key to accommodate the 3" long
axle studs) & new lug nuts for strip tires, new tq arm mount for rear end
(bracket on Moser 9" is 0.035" smaller & shifted toward driver's side by
1.5"), new LCA reloc brackets (Moser 9" brackets are 0.185" wider than
stock brackets), new brake line plumbing for Wilwood calipers, weld
bracket for brake line "T" & right line support on to housing, shorten
three tq arm bracket mounts welded to housing by 9/16" & grind tq arm mount to
clear cener section, remove lock washer from top bolt
so bolt head will clear body panel - locktite all three tq arm bracket bolts,
cut exh heat shield above RH axle tube
to clear axle tube, new axle mount brackets for rear sway bar (10 bolt
tubes are 2-5/8" diameter, Moser 9" tubes are 3"
diameter, & 3rd member is no longer centered on axle), new cross member
for 6 spd trans with tq arm mount & drive shaft safety loop (Richmond 6
spd trans mounts @ 17 degree angle CCW viewed from rear & lower & further
back than the T5), drill & tap trans housing to mount GM VSS, enlarge
shifter hole in body on driver's side rear to clear 6 spd shifter - modify
shifter boot by redrilling mounting holes, drive shaft must be 7/16" shorter than stock
length with larger 1350 style turbo
400 yoke, reroute exhaust system pipes near safety loop support bar,
need electronic speedo recalibrator (Dakota Digital) - 6 spd
available only with 8 tooth drive gear (T5 had 7 tooth
drive gear), maximum number of teeth available for driven gear is only 22,
so speedo will read 9% high w/o electronic correction, reroute VSS &
reverse light switch wires, modify em. brake cable eyelets @ end of cables - elongate
to fit on Wilwood calipers, remove mount for stock tq arm from Richmond 6 speed shifter,
have the axle hubs turned down from 3.062" to 2.775" for a distance of 0.230" from the
end of the hub to fit the hole in the stock rim - the larger hub diameter was needed to
center the Wilwood drums.

T5 wt = 74 lbs
Richmond 6 spd wt = 110 lbs
Delta = +36 lbs

10 bolt wt = 124 lbs
9" wt = 183 lbs
Delta = +59 lbs

Total delta = +95 lbs
(That's approx +0.1 sec in the 1/4)

Could have saved 15 lbs with an aluminum 9" center section, but it's about
$150 more & not nearly as strong.