I´m a poor man now but a happy one.I ordered it with 9 psi.
Motor is out and new so I plan on running it first without the Pro-Charger for a couple of months and then put the D-1SC on.
Motor: 383 with KB hypereutectic 10:0 compression pistons;
Jeg``s 197 heads; superram;24# injectors;58# TB;210
-220 at .050 480-512 and 112 camshaft;
Hooker Supercompetition headers;mufflex Y pipe;
mufflex 4`catback system;moroso 7 qs oilpan.
Trans:700 aut with 2600 stallspeed vigilante. etc etc.

Please feel free to tell me what should I think it is good for this combo with the D-1SC.
I have some experience about turbo set ups but not superchargers.The fact is that when I begin with this motor,
I did not think about supercharging.....ofcourse in the future
I`ll put in forged pistons and low the compression a bit.......
Just tell me what you think, good or bad.
Thanks
Ben

 

10:1 compression and 9 psi boost is probably not going to work so well.

On another note, that's a really really tame cam shaft for this engine.

 

Deff. go lower on the compression. your gona want to run more boost down the road. id limit it to 9:1ish.

 

i hope you opted for the intercooled version... check into water injection even if you got the intercooler(s) it will help a lot with detonation control, and keep you timing decent, also yeah that cam sounds a little small, but im not a cam expert, so... otherwise i like the combo a lot

 

sounds great except for the 10:1 and hyperutectics both at the same time and I say "YIKES!"

 

What exactly is a jegs 197 head?

 

canfield makes heads for jegs they are like 220 and 197 cc's

atleast I think they are canfields, they appeared the same time they quit pushing the canfields and they look exactly like the canfields I remember.

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...50&prmenbr=361

 

Thanks for the replies, I do think of lowering the compression
and changing the pistons next time I take off the heads.......
And yes they are canfield heads.
I just hope the 9 psi is OK if I am carefull with the timing,also
I will change the cam next time too.What cam do you recomend
for this combo?
Thanks.
Ben

 

stevedave 454 yes the D-1SC has a 3# intercooler.I think that
the water injection sounds intresting.How much does it coste
and who sells it?
These heads have 65 chambers in the Canfields info, I think that
Jeg`s say 64 just because it sounds better in someway.......
If they have 64 chambers i do have 10:0 compression but if
they have 65 as Canfield tells then I`ll have a lil lower compression than 10:0....Humm I have to do the math to know
exactly.
Ben

 

You could go to the 72 cc head and lower the comp that way, think it is about 1 point lower.

 

Fevre the heads are already on the motor ready to go.
Otherwise it would be just perfect with 9:0 comp
Ben

 

Benroc, congrats on your purchase of the ATI D1sc, you will be very pleased with that unit, but as B4Ctom1 said, Yikes!!! 10:1 and hyperutectic pistons... you will need to be EXTREMELY careful with the tune, not to mention...i hope you went atlittle extra on the ring gaps.

personally, i would install some dished forged pistons to lower the compression.

Here's a company that manufactures the water/alcohol injection units that has a great reputation on this side of the pond.
http://www.smcenterprises.com/

Happy boosting
later
larry

 

i know it sounds like a pain in the *** to change the pistons now but think of it this way.....say you are really carefull with the tune but something happens (boost retard diaphragm fails, loose a vacuum like to your fuel press. reg., etc. etc) and it detonates real good....youll probably shatter a piston and could score the cylinder walls, maybe destroy your heads, maybe get a shard of aluminum in the main bearings and destroy your crank...then you wont only have to pull the motor out to replace pistons but the whole damn thing.....

just do it right or youll most likely regret it. but hey, its not my car.

 

hi maniacc, thanks for your opinion, I see you have the D-1SC
and run 10 psi.How much compression do you have and how hard
was the tuning of your car?
Thanks
Ben

 

Well I`m going to put in a thicker head gasket I Know that
going from a .038 gasket to a .051 lows the compression 0.3
so it already looks better........
I don`t want to change the pistons now because I have the
crank, pistons and rods balanced for 250 bucks and as someone
sed is a pain in the # to do all the work again.
So what do you think is it going to work a lot better with say
9.7:1 compression?
Ben

 

24# injectors...
KB pistons...

I dont care what compression you have I seriouselly doubt your 24Lb injectors are going to be able to keep up with 9PSI on a 383 Cube motor. Hope your upgrading them?

 

Lowering your compression at the expense of quench distance doesn’t buy you anything besides less power and possibly a greater propensity towards detonation.

 

KingtalOn lol I really don`t care if you care .The 24# injectors
are OK for a while, the compression is much more important
right now.

 

Benroc,

I have a completely stock engine, 9.3:1. running the stock chip and the ATI FMU. And i feel i am pushing it...but if it blows, oh well...it will be time for a new engine built for boost. (which i think is going to be really soon)

You'll be o.k. for now with the 24# injectors <B>AND</B> a FMU.
I would definately consider some way to datalog your runs...and go very carefully, maybe hit about 1 to 2#'s boost back out of it. check your log, (i.e. air/fuel, knock retard, fuel pressure), then go alittle more if everything looks good.

Still i think it would be in your best interest to replace the pistons and have everything rebalanced. like 83crossfire ta said, your changing your quench area by installing thicker head gaskets, which will raise your chances for detonation. But this is your car do what you feel necessary.

Have fun,
later
larry

 

He is right unless you are using and FMU, but there are already plenty of other things to endanger your motor. If you don't want to hear the truth then why post.

I started looking on the article from speed-o-motive the nations oldest stroker builder. He had a great article on his website (its in thier old catalogs and maybe the new ones as well) that lays out why proper quench is more important to fight detonation than compression is.

it boils down to this extreme:

A normally asperated 8.0:1 compression motor might not even be able to run much timing on race gas with horrible quench.

Yet a motor with outstanding scientifically created quench (like some of the older porches I remember) could run 11.0:1 with pump gas and 12 pounds of boost.

with the wedge design, it is easy to argue its pluses and faults but it leaves a bit to be desired as far as quench is concerned. To make up for this we do our best to produce the lowest compression, with the smallest chambers, and the flattest pistons we can. This is still no guarantee. The good news is that you can get a lower boost pulley, run a better timing retard setup, maybe even add alcohol injection. But when it comes down to it, to go faster, in the end, you will need to lower your compression and put better pistons in. Hopeflly before it self destructs.

 

SMC sells a kit for around $400 i believe (its $400 at www.LS1motorsports.com) and i've seen a universal kit for around $250, but rooster433 and mrdude1 (i think) have posts in this forum about their homemade kits, which seem to work very well (maybe not aswell as the SMC kit though) and are considerably cheaper (around $80-150)
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
check out this site for some info

 

B4C tom1 When you post on the internet you get very good answers and other that are not so good.......................But you have to take it with humor, in the end it is a hobby no matter
how much it costes; and I would not have a hobby that I can
not afford.

ProCharger Stage II D-1SC Supercharger Kit w/Intercooler for 88-92 Chevrolet Camaro/Firebird
Code: PC-1GC211-D1SC
Price: $3,653.04
Warranty: 1 Year

Emissions: 49-State Legal

All fuel-injected automotive and truck ProCharger Systems are 100% complete, with all the components needed for an attractive, OEM-quality installation. All hardware is of the highest quality, and all fuel-injected systems even include a high-flow external fuel pump as standard equipment.

Performance

This kit provides a 85+% gain in power, with a modest increase in gas mileage during normal driving conditions.

Options

Boost Options: 9, 12 psi



This Kit Includes

Intercooler: 3 core
Supercharger Head Unit
Fuel Management Unit (FMU)
Self Contained Recirculating Oil System (Tapping of oil pan NOT required)
Mounting Brackets, Hardware, & Hoses
ProFlo By-Pass Valve Kit
ProPump Fuel Pump

 

stevedave454 thanks for the links, I`ll put in a kit when it is time
for the supercharger to get tuned, even if I change the pistons in the future it`s good to have water injection.
Ben

 

Most people post here in hopes to be appraised of any obvious or common knowledge item they may have over looked which may be already well known to others to avoid repeating thier mistakes. 24# injectors with an FMU might be ok but just barely, just for now. This is only if you intend to use all the components the kit includes. That means the FMU and the inline fuel pump, also you may want to consider making sure to have a in tank pump that is in good health. As far as 24# injectors go I recommend the ones from ford due to thier increased pressure tolerance (increased pressure from the FMU). Otherwise they can experience "injector-lock" with causes the injector to fail to unseat.

 

Ofcourse I`ll use all the componentes of the kit besides I have
a bosh fuel pump capable of support 800+ horspower and the injectors are the F#(blue tops) so I just want to put my energy
in other things of the combo now.
As I said in my first post all answers are OK but some of them I`ll
take with a grain of salt.
Ben

 

The Bosch, it is an in tank?

Im just saying this because of seeing plenty of people try to out think ATI and say "oh well my fuel pump is a bad azz XXX hp pump, that I bought from XXX so I don't need to use the in-line one ATI is sending". I saw it over and over on the dyno.

Then when they get on the dyno they cant figure out why the car goes lean. This usually happens when the FMU and "larger" injectors are used (way bigger than 24#).

The good news is that those high HP pumps seem to work just fine on high HP, large injector, NON-FMU setups that use after market ECM's etc to eliver the fuel.

here take a look at this:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ht=inline+pump

 

Well, when the time to tune up the procharger comes I`ll deal
with all those things it`s going to be exciting, anyway my thought
has alwais been to use at first all the components of the kit and
start tuning.
But first I want to run the motor some time without the procharger even if it is tenting to put it on at once, I know I am
a speed addict just like almost everybody els here wright.
Ben

 

Sorry about bad spelling (always).

 

the spelling is ok, some is lost in translation I understand.

I also agree with the not trying to pile too many tuning variables on at once. On my website you will see my 91 camaro. I am building a destroked 400 which I intend to have in and running well before I bolt the supercharger to it.

 

A 383 with a mild cam, decent heads, and a super ram should be good for nearly 400 crank horsepower N/A wouldnt everyone agree? I mean even the stock TPI flows 198~CFM which is enough to make that kind of power right?

So on 9 PSI of intercooled boost, what sort of power will you be expecting? If i had to guess, you expect

<b>This kit provides a 85+% gain in power, with a modest increase in gas mileage during normal driving conditions.
</b>

So lets be modest and say 75% of 400 horsepower...
400+ 300 = 700 Horsepower at the crank.
lets be even more modest, lets say 650 Crank Horsepower.

math please?
650 X .55 (modest again) / (8 * .9 ) = <b>49.5Lbs/Hr
</b>

Here lets de-factor the max duty cycle AND give you a better BSFC

650 X .5 / 8 = 40Lbs/hr

SO even on a perfect day out, with perfect fuel and perfect tune and perfect EVERYTHING and not withstanding the fact that injectors dont like to hang open 100% of the time... we STILL need 40 Lbs/Hr of fuel... per injector...
and you have 24 Lbs/Hr fuel injectors... Lets assume they are FORD Injectors... 24Lbs @ 36PSI

So with the FMU; math:

P2 = (M2 / M1)Sq * P1
P2 = (40 / 24)Sq * 36PSI

<b>To obtain an Injector Flow Rate of 40 Lbs/Hr we need to increase Fuel Pressure to 100PSI. </b>
Even with a very generous BSFC, acceptable 100% duty cycle, and a very modest crank power level, we STILL have insane Fuel pressure requirments.

So, benroc, is your fuel system equiped to run 100+PSI?

 

B4Ctom1 I`ve been looking at your 91 camaro project and at all the parts you`ve already got and I think you also have an exciting time ahead . How high are you going to rev that motor?
One question I have about SMC Enterprises.Are they Ok to
deal with? I may buy their alcohol injection kit.
Ben

 

KingtalOn that procharger kit has pulleys of 15-20psi and then
it has 9 an12psi-pulleys as an option.With which pulley do you
think you`ll get 85% gain in power?
So lets be modests with horspower with just a 9psi-pulley.
If everything goes OK with the tuning of the D-1SC and I see
that I`m not getting enough PSI , the possibility is there I`m
aware, I`ll deal with it then.I have to keep my head cool
and don`t rush to much you know, it is already going faster
than I want; just because I ordered the kit.......
Ben

 

I intend to rev it into the 7K rpm range. It will be based on pulley selection to avoid the 62,000 rpm redline of the impeller on the blower. That question of the 100 psi fuel pressure posed by kingtalon is right on. On the dyno with FMU cars it is not uncommon to see the FMU raise fuel pressures to 85-110 psi. It seems it isnt so much the ability to reach 100 psi as it is to reach 100 psi while the injectors are spilling it all into the engine.

 

I just got news from ATI, and they can not give me the kit with
9 psi it must be at least 10 psi.So that was the drop that made me to consider the option of 10 psi with my hypereutectic piston
or get new forged stuff, and go up in psi..........................
Well I told them to give me the 15 psi pulley, and I`ll go with
forged botom and 8.5 compression.
I`m wating for their answer to begin ripping off the engine.....This
project is getting out of my hands
Ben

 

aint it coo!

 

Yes cool and soon a lot of work. But this summer if everything
works well it will be alot of fun too
Ben

 

as it say in the book "maximum boost", dont be to hasty on lowering compression. So doesnt the ati come with a intercooler option.if this car is going to be street driven and u lower the compression its going to be a dog until it builds boost.if its a weekend car i would first try intercooling it, if that fails id use race gas.
dave

 

Dave, nah is not going to be a daily driver and 15 psi is just
the beginning if I know myself a bit.AtI has pulleys up to
20 psi for this kit so......
It will be driven on 98 octane unleaded pump gas(we`ve got
it here), and I have 3.70 gears and 2600 stall speed on the
vigilante converter and the camshaft will be only 224-230 @
.050 with .503 - 510 and 112 lsa; so I think it will work well.
Ben

 

Hrmm.. You think 10:1 is a little too high for 9psi of intercooled boost? The mustangs seem to do it ok on stock bottom ends.

I'm running 8psi of non intercooled boost, and 8.96:1 compression.. I'm gonna bump up to about 11-12psi with an S-trim. I think it will be ok. I have a water/alky injection setup too which I plan on using for the 12psi..

I second that about the injectors though. I maxed out 24# SVO injectors at 450hp. (65psi FMU, 93% DC) so I went to 36# SVO at 55psi.

-- Joe

 

hi Joe, ATI told me that the minimum is 10 psi so I thought that
is going to be to close.....The dealer Proficient Performance
offered 9 psi and I was going to run it with 10:1 but now with a minimun of 10 psi.... Anyway you have to get forged internals sooner or later with a D1-SC because you can upgrade to 20 psi if you want.
The injectors will be changed now to 42.
Ben

 

Bravo Benroc, another step in the right direction.

Man that thing is going to be crazy! good luck!

 

This motor is desintegrated i smal pieces now

 

Good buy 383 N/A

 

nice to se someone else in sweden building a nice engine.....

Are you going to use stock ECM or an aftermarket?

/N.

 

Stock ecm for now untill I learn a lil about making my own chips
maybe you can teach me I`m not so good with computers so
...... we`ll see, Ed Wright made a custom chip for me once and I was happy with it.
Ben

 

No problem...... just contact me when its time.........

/N.

 

Cool, thanks I may need a lil help to have that thing runnig
smoothly.
How is your 415 cui building going?
Ben

 

All parts have been ordered......

Will be a street engine with massive torque.......

/N.

 

Sounds good, now soon it will be building time for me too, but first I´m going to the states for one week to get all the forged stuff.
Later
Ben

 

Do you want to carry home more part let me know

/N.