I am building a dual stage N2O system and am trying to figure out how I plan to activate the 2nd stage of juice. How could I get the second stage to go in when I hit 2nd gear? I was thinking of some type of switch on the shifter. I already have a wot switch and a button on my shifter for the 1st stage. Any ideas?

 

i would say use a window switch. i believe there are companies out there that make specific dual stage electronics, NOS being one of them I believe.

 

I've been looking at these but wouldn't this still activate in first gear? I need traction. I want to engage only 75-100 hp shot in first gear and another 100-125 in second gear.

 

then use a window switch for your first stage and a button for the second stage.

 

Why didn't I think of that?

Thanks for the tip.

 

eh, brain fart. **** happens.

 

Could also use a timed delay triggered by a WOT switch or even a window switch

 

only issue with that is if he lets out of it due to traction in first or something of that nature.

 

Could do like nos does and use a WOT for the first stage and a button for the 2nd stage.

 

You could shift it manually and as soon as you hit second, hit the button on the shifter. Are you running relays for this setup?

 

In the past with my sniper kit I didn't use relays. I'm not sure if I will with a dual stage either. It's probably better to use them but these small solenoids that I use don't draw much amperage. Some kits don't even come with relays. I'm considering what unknown_host suggested. Currently, I have a wot switch with along with a button on my b&m shifter so I can control the traction on the street. I'd still like to control the traction with the same button on the first stage and then in second gear have it engage automatically. I am normally hooked up by 2nd gear. Could I somehow use a microswitch connected to my shifter under the console to engage after it gets out of first gear?

I still may go with the window switch but after seeing the price I was considering other ideas. It's about $70 plus I'll have to run wires to my distributor I think. I think I'd rather stay away from the electronics. Is there a cheaper window switch?

 

If that's what you want to do then how would the results be different if you just held the button after whatever point you decide that you've got enough traction?

FWIW, I've had my NX solenoids melt the contacts on a 30A bosch style relay (actually melted tougher causing the fuel solenoid to stay open). Yes, the NX 'noids are somewhat beefier then others, but are you using switches/wiring that can carry that much current? Do you really want that much current running into the passenger compartment, and if you're OK with that then I'd at least make sure that wire to the switch on your shifter is fused. I'm sure it rubs something every time you move the shifter, if it happened to rub through and short you'll be really surprised how fast much less then 30A worth of heat can set plastic/carpet on fire.

 

I know that the full 175 shot would be too much in first gear so this way I can regulate the shot in first if need be and still be full throttle on motor. What I mean is I plan to experiment with how much of a shot I can run on the first stage and regulate that by the button. Then in second the other part comes in when fully hooked up. Does that make any sense? With my old 350 I was spraying right off the line with a 125 shot and no hooking problems. I was getting consistent 1.64 60' times. 3 in a row to be exact. Now with the 406 that has the same power as the 350 on N2O I want to not blow the tires off. Another reason for the dual stage is because I know that such a hard hit of juice is rough on transmissions, rearends, and U-joints.

Also, I've never heard of a nitrous kit pulling more than 30 amps. Also, why didn't you run a fuse so that it would blow and stop the current to the solenoids both at the same time? I measured all of my solenoids turned on at the same time on the same wire and it pulled less than 10 amps. These will be wired seperately. The most that one of my solenoids pulls is 6 amps. The next was 2.5. One was 1 and the other was .5. The fuel ones hardly draw anything. I still may run relays just not sure yet.

 

you could somehow mount a switch that will cut the circuit in first gear and then allow the circuit to flow in the rest of the gears, just have to mount it down under the upper console.

 

You know, I understand the simplicity and thought process behind the dual stage/turn it on when you're ready mentality behind what you're asking, but if you really want to take it that far you'd be much better off running a progressive controller. When I did this on my '97 WS6 I used a Jacobs NMM and was very happy with how it worked (and only mildly annoyed with the rats nest of wires that I had which I never got around to fixing). I left the 175 hp jets in and was able to bring the N2O in so softly that you couldn't tell that I even had it on. A pass ending at 106mph (no spray) felt just like one running at 119mph (the NMM allowing part of the total shot in) besides that I got to the end of the track faster (FWIW, I never did get the car to survive a 175hp shot. The engine was fine, but the clutch and rear didn't like it. It didn't help that the car is enormously heavy. It ran fastest with a full tank of gas (the traction made a bigger difference then the weight) + me at over 300# + a WS6 TA with EVERY OPTION + having about 60# of text books in the hatch (I taught classes at the time) = 4190#. Add a 6 speed and enough traction to squirt off the line at somewhere between 4200-5200rpm and you've got the recipe for broken 10 bolts and slipping clutches.

It was properly fused, that would be of no help whatsoever. I’m sure that the NX solenoids draw more then 10A, but I doubt that it's near 30A. The problem is that the coil in the solenoid is an inductive load and when you switch it on/off it sends a big spike back through the wiring. By big I mean that it's enough that if you were touching the wiring while you did it would at least give you a good shock, possibly more. Really, do to this right anything in the same circuit as the solenoid (or anything with a good size coil, like a cooling fan, possibly even something like a line lock) needs to have a diode or capacitor across any switch terminals to prevent them from welding themselves shut.

 

I have looked at the Jacobs Nitrous Master Mind but I try to hide everything that has to do with N2O. Right now my arming switch and the bottle heater switch is in the console. The only thing that can be seen is the b&m shifter T-handle with the button on the side. Most people just think it's my line lock button. This master mind seems big and I was trying to think of a place to mount this thing. Where did you mount yours? You spoke of all the wires. Is it really a mess? I love simplicity. Also, when you trapped 119 what et were you running? Isn't that close to 10's?

 

Originally I had it mounted under the seat and you wouldn't notice it, but I found that I liked playing with the ***** and lights and ended up mounting it to the bottom of the dash. Walking by the car or even sitting in the passenger side you didn't notice it. I'll attach a picture.

I actually wired it in the staging lanes at the track, just crimped it together so it would work while waiting for my first pass and left the whole bundle of wires sitting across the top of my linelock/underhood fuse box. I intended to clean it up later but never really got around to it. I was going to move the wiring inside the fender like where I had the fuel and N2O lines run with the solenoids mounted to a bracket suspended from the core support behind the driver's side headlight. If it wasn't for the wiring you wouldn't have noticed it at all.

I made 4 runs on 4 separate days in the 118-119mph range but never made one that something didn't go wrong, so I have no idea what et it was actually capable of. They were all in the 12.5-11.8 range. The last one 12.5something at 119.something the clutch smoked the whole way down the track and the c-clip button popped off the driver's side axle (first time I didn't break the gears, didn't even know till I tried to go into the turnaround and the rear brake was rubbing the caliper). That was the last time I actually raced that car at the track.

You could probably see the switch pannel with switches for the N2O (arm and bottle heater), line lock and fans in front of the shifter in this one also:

 

83 Crossfire TA: Thanks for the picture. It's all good information. I bet the c-clip episode was a little nerve racking. I worry about my rearend breaking also. I don't have rear discs to hold the axle in and that's what really worries me. C-clip eliminators leak if you drive it much on the street so I'm thinking of using a spare 9-bolt that I have. It has bolt-in axles.

Back to the mastermind. So it was pretty easy to wire...huh? You've got me thinking about on of these now although I would still like to hide it.

 

I was just looking at a mastermind. Is it a must in order to adjust timing with this thing to run an aftermarket ignition box? I run an accel blueprint distributor and an accel supercoil. That's another cost that I have to consider. Did you use that on the LT1?

 

Well, if suddenly at the end of the track the back end of your car starts feeling loose and making wicked grinding noises is something that you find nerve racking, then yes. Funny thing is that I've broken 6 sets of gears and one axle between 2 ten bolts that I've owned. The Formula that I’m running now has a BW 9 bolt, and besides some initial teething problems with the posi (it had an average life of about 35 passes per rebuild, I finally welded the side cones into the housing making a spool and permanently fixed it… really not that obnoxious, even in a daily driver in the snow) it's been reliable.

It was a piece of cake, even though I was using an Accel 300+ that it didn't have a diagram for. The wiring is not hard, there's just quite a few things to wire into. You basically splice into the ignition signal, separate leads for each solenoid (it not only allows you to adjust the %/rate that N2O and fuel are added, but it allows you to adjust relative rates between the 2, for example if you find that you have to add fuel faster then the N2O), previsions for a fuel pressure safety switch, WOT switch….

One thing that I did was used 2, 6 connector trailer harness plugs so that I could easily unplug it (and bought extras and made a jumper so I could run without it) which I considered pretty much a necessity if you mount it anywhere that you may have to move it occasionally to get to something else (in my case, I had all the wiring that I ran through the firewall going through one grommet and tucked up above the driver's side hush panel, so I had to remove the panel that the JNMM was mounted to to mess with anything).

It has to be run with an ignition box, and you splice it in between the trigger and the box, that way the signal from the OEM ignition components which have been rerouted to trigger the ignition box which then triggers the coil actually end up going into the JNMM, it uses that to figure out rpm, run the shift light, the progressive controller, rev limiter… and modifies the signal as per the adjustable retard. Then the signal comes back out to trigger the ignition box, which boosts the signal and triggers the coil.

Without the aftermarket box the JNNM would have to deal with the full load of the coil which it was not designed to do.

Of course, I don't know that I see the point of running that much spray without an ignition box anyway...